Bayonetta's Moves (GIFs)

[Crudele]

Hmm. When they showed the duck hunt part where she did the dtilt bullet time the first bullet made him flinch but the rest didn't. This looks like the same case. Link flinched when on the ground at first and then immediately did a get up. Only problem is can't tell if it was forced or the link chose to do it. I think it looked more like a forced get up TBH. IIRC jab locks lock not because of the angle the move but because of the kb which the first hit of bullet time looks like it has a bit of.

I believe Link chose to do get up because he wasn't flashing white during the get up animation.

Why can't it be February already so we can just test these things :/

 

[David Viran]

I believe Link chose to do get up because he wasn't flashing white during the get up animation.

Why can't it be February already so we can just test these things :/

Characters always flash when doing a get up because it's what the game does to show a character has intangibility/invincibility.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Anyone else noticed that Bayonetta can wall cling?

Spoiler: Trailer evidence

 

[Deleted member]

Anyone else noticed that Bayonetta can wall cling?

Spoiler: Trailer evidence

View attachment 88774

By the looks of it, she is standing, but when analyzed, you seem to be true. I don't really familiarize with the Wii U stages so I can't really say, nice finding, nonetheless!

 

[Crudele]

Characters always flash when doing a get up because it's what the game does to show a character has intangibility/invincibility.

But Link did not flash white, which definitely always happens for a forced neutral get up after a jab reset. So I guess that means that he:

• didn't get locked
• didn't input the get up
• got "woken up" by a bullet maybe?

Any chance I could summon Zapp Branniglenn 's jablock expertise? I have the video linked in the previous page.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Interesting, It's a jab lock, alright. When a character lands on the ground and misses their tech, they have 26 frames before they can input a get up option. This is the initial jab lock window. And Link gets hit by...something on frame 12 of landing. What I don't understand is what. In the other examples of bullet arts, it's very clear that the bullets deal no knockback, like fox lasers. Whether or not a move locks is dependent on angle. But they also have to deal some knockback in order to lock. And the Dtilt kick itself didn't hit Link, she was already firing. Here's my theory: getting shot at point blank during bullet arts may have some light knockback, and a proper angle for locking. I know right after this point in the video they show Link running up to counterattack her, but he was still a step away with his disjointed dash attack. Alternatively, maybe some of her bullet arts followups do have knockback while others don't. It would make sense for one move's bullet arts to jab lock when the bullets are being fired that low to the ground.

Sorry, I can't provide a precise answer. You have to also remember that this Bayonetta in the video is very much unfinished. And the footage is captured on a developer platform in which they can control anything they want in terms of gameplay and visual effects. That would explain Link's lack of flashing white as he got up. The Bayonetta that we get to play with might end up with no such jab lock on the move and what we saw in the trailer was the developer programming link to enter a jab lock state 12 frames after landing. The whole point of this segment is to make bullet arts look good, so don't be surprised if this turns out to be a white lie.

Edit: my mistake, I briefly forgot the trailer was in 30 frames a second. So rerunning the numbers, Link is jab locked somewhere around frame 24 of landing in the video. Still part of the jab lock window.

 

[TheLegendaryFoxFire]

By the looks of it, she is standing, but when analyzed, you seem to be true. I don't really familiarize with the Wii U stages so I can't really say, nice finding, nonetheless!

She is under Pyrosphere's platform which has no place to stand on. My only guess is that she does in fact have a wall cling.

 

[Crudele]

Interesting, It's a jab lock, alright. When a character lands on the ground and misses their tech, they have 26 frames before they can input a get up option. This is the initial jab lock window. And Link gets hit by...something on frame 12 of landing. What I don't understand is what. In the other examples of bullet arts, it's very clear that the bullets deal no knockback, like fox lasers. Whether or not a move locks is dependent on angle. But they also have to deal some knockback in order to lock. And the Dtilt kick itself didn't hit Link, she was already firing. Here's my theory: getting shot at point blank during bullet arts may have some light knockback, and a proper angle for locking. I know right after this point in the video they show Link running up to counterattack her, but he was still a step away with his disjointed dash attack. Alternatively, maybe some of her bullet arts followups do have knockback while others don't. It would make sense for one move's bullet arts to jab lock when the bullets are being fired that low to the ground.

Sorry, I can't provide a precise answer. You have to also remember that this Bayonetta in the video is very much unfinished. And the footage is captured on a developer platform in which they can control anything they want in terms of gameplay and visual effects. That would explain Link's lack of flashing white as he got up. The Bayonetta that we get to play with might end up with no such jab lock on the move and what we saw in the trailer was the developer programming link to enter a jab lock state 12 frames after landing. The whole point of this segment is to make bullet arts look good, so don't be surprised if this turns out to be a white lie.

Edit: my mistake, I briefly forgot the trailer was in 30 frames a second. So rerunning the numbers, Link is jab locked somewhere around frame 24 of landing in the video. Still part of the jab lock window.

Thank you for such an in depth analysis. This is definitely one of those cases where I'd be happier proven wrong because dtilt bullet locks sound like they'd be incredible.

Yeah, I guess the most important note to include while discussing her trailer moveset is that nothing is final until she's on our consoles. Her being tested on some sort of dev kit might explain why Link wasn't flashing white. They probably didn't expect people would try to analyze knockback properties of a single move during a 30 minute presentation. Thanks again.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

She is under Pyrosphere's platform which has no place to stand on. My only guess is that she does in fact have a wall cling.

Imagine the recovery!

Witch Twist -> Double Jump -> Witch Twist -> Wall Jump (all wall clingers can wall jump, so why wouldn't she?) -> Witch Twist again?

 

[Kon]

Imagine the recovery!

Witch Twist -> Double Jump -> Witch Twist -> Wall Jump (all wall clingers can wall jump, so why wouldn't she?) -> Witch Twist again?

Especially as she has a wall jump in her games too.

I think Bayonetta could have good OoS options. Her upb hits a bit sidewards and if her upb works as a combostarter(which is the impression I got by watching the trailer over and over again), this would be huge. Her OoS UpB would be great then as she won't have the freefall animation but be able to follow-up her upb with other moves. Also her aerials(except for dair) seem to be good OoS too. Her upsmash will probably be useless to punish misspaced moves of the ennemy. However maybe her upsmash is a good tool to punish a retreating aerial from the ennemy because of the disjointed hitbox. If so, it would be a nice option too.

Another thing I noticed by watching Sakurai's explanation about the down angled Side B performed in the air: It seems that the move doesn't clash with the stage like Falcon kick and maybe it's less punishable and therefore an option for getting fast back to the stage too.

Next: I'm interested in the Down Smash. I finished Bayonetta 2 yesterday and in the game you can perform this D-smash move also without the wicked stuff. Even with the wicked stuff appearing, Bayonetta's foot has an actual hitbox too. Therefore I was wondering if this will work too in Smash. Will the wicked foot and Bayonetta's foot both have an actual hitbox?
In general a wellspaced D-smash seems to cover many ledge getup options. I'm pretty sure it can cover ledge jump, normal getup and getup attack as well as doing nothing on the ledge. Therefore the ennemy would have to roll onstage or drop the ledge and regrab(which would mean death too for the regrab) Depending on how laggy the d-smash is, you could possibly avoid getting punished for the d-smash edgeguard on the ledge and you would have an amazing tool for conditioning people to perform a getup roll.

I also thought about Bayonetta's options in the neutral. I think shooting in neutral with the jab(while keeping the a button pressed) would be like with Fox: pretty decent in order to force your opponent to approach you, but you need to know when to stop, because it probably has a bit cooldown. The neutral B looks to me as a pretty decent tool to punish an aerial approach from the ennemy as the angle is targeting slightly upwards. In neutral however, neutral B probably can only force your opponent to approach grounded.
What I was wondering about her neutral B: when performed in the air, does it work like in her games? Because in her games, she could stall a bit with Y shots comparable to Fox reflector. If so, it would be a nice tool to mix up the landings.

Bair probably leading into a grab(like shown in the trailer) at low % could be nice if Bayonetta has some grabcombos. Nevertheless, the probably autocancel bair would still be a good tool in neutral.

I think Bayonetta could be good at covering landings. Her dash attack seems pretty fast after all, her grounded side b combined with the kick could be good to cover landings too because of the range of the kick as well as the pretty small hurtbox of Bayonetta when performing this side b slide on the ground making it hard to hit her first. and of course the slightly targeting upwards neutral b could sometimes be a decent tool too.

I also like Bayonetta's crouch. It looks as if she was able to duck under many moves. Combined with the impression that her dtilt ist pretty good and leads into combos, it may be nice to punish ennemies. I wonder if she also has a crouch walk. I would really appreciate it, but I'm not sure about this.

So far my thinkings and impressions from the trailer, explanation as well as from the gifs in this thread and some of your comments

 

[Top Boss]

that down throw looks badddddd

 

[JosePollo]

One thing I find interesting is you see Olimar clanking his fair with her nair, but she doesn't trade, as most aerials do. I wonder why? Probably has rebound set to 0, which means that, like Little Mac's f-tilt, clanking with one hitbox won't stop the next hitbox from happening.

 

[David Viran]

One thing I find interesting is you see Olimar clanking his fair with her nair, but she doesn't trade, as most aerials do. I wonder why? Probably has rebound set to 0, which means that, like Little Mac's f-tilt, clanking with one hitbox won't stop the next hitbox from happening.

It probably has more to do with olimar's pikmin having item priority and how regular aerials never clank.

 

[「 Derk 」]

My thoughts on her move set from the small amount of info we have to go off of. I need this character in my life asap!

Spoiler

Bullet Climax:
Mega man lemons on steroids. Looks like a great projectile second only to Sheik due to the upward angle missing smaller characters. I can see this move stealing a lot of jumps offstage for gimps and taking away options like Ike's Quick Draw horizontal recovery.

• Can we use it offstage or does it cause free fall? They didn't show aerial use in the direct. Please don't be another Din's Fire with pointless free fall ; ;
• If we can use it offstage that is probably the main reason for the upward angle, otherwise this move would be absurd for offstage pressure.

Witch Twist:
Looks like an amazing OoS option since you can act out of it immediately. Seems like one of our better combo starters also which is perfect. Witch Twist > jump/Afterburner out of pressure if it misses or combo if it connects. No free fall!

• Can Witch Twist auto snap ledges on start up as a trump punish option?

Heel Slide:
Basically Cloud's down tilt with an optional combo at the end. With the small amount of time I labbed with his down tilt it was extremely useful so this is very welcomed. Plus it looks slick as hell, and unlike Cloud, we can do it in either direction as another OoS option for attacking or retreating. It seems like a solid option to cover rolls and maybe catch ledge grabs punish window.

Afterburner Kick:
Bounces back when connecting so it could be semi safe for shield pressure. I didn't see it connect to any shields so I am guessing based on how it reacts to hitting characters. Can also be used a second time if it connects to either escape a shielded attack or mix up with a second attack.

• Can Afterburner Kick ledge cancel? Possible movement option that also cancels combo lag if so.

Witch Time/Bat's Within:
Seems to need precise timing to activate Witch Time. Bat's Within is more forgiving and can probably be used like Ryu's Focus cancel to ignore attacks and land safely or a bait to punish since it still slows the opponent slightly. Seems like we can control the reappearance so this may be another option to add to her already insane recovery mix ups.

-Bair and Uair seem to auto-cancel or have a very small amount of ending lag. They were both shown as falling attacks into a combo.
-Her grab seems to carry momentum similar to Captain Falcon's grab.
-Fast pummel is nice.
-Crouch avoids projectiles and possibly grabs.
-She can delay combos with bullet arts to bait someone to try and punish.
-Down tilt bullet arts can hit small characters which is nice even though it lacks hitstun.
-Smash attacks cover a lot of range and they are all disjointed attacks. They seem a little slow though.
-Can Bayonetta cancel combo landing lag with an auto-cancel aerial?

 

[Lakuto]

My thoughts on her move set from the small amount of info we have to go off of. I need this character in my life asap!

Spoiler

Bullet Climax:
Mega man lemons on steroids. Looks like a great projectile second only to Sheik due to the upward angle missing smaller characters. I can see this move stealing a lot of jumps offstage for gimps and taking away options like Ike's Quick Draw horizontal recovery.

• Can we use it offstage or does it cause free fall? They didn't show aerial use in the direct. Please don't be another Din's Fire with pointless free fall ; ;
• If we can use it offstage that is probably the main reason for the upward angle, otherwise this move would be absurd for offstage pressure.

Witch Twist:
Looks like an amazing OoS option since you can act out of it immediately. Seems like one of our better combo starters also which is perfect. Witch Twist > jump/Afterburner out of pressure if it misses or combo if it connects. No free fall!

• Can Witch Twist auto snap ledges on start up as a trump punish option?

Heel Slide:
Basically Cloud's down tilt with an optional combo at the end. With the small amount of time I labbed with his down tilt it was extremely useful so this is very welcomed. Plus it looks slick as hell, and unlike Cloud, we can do it in either direction as another OoS option for attacking or retreating. It seems like a solid option to cover rolls and maybe catch ledge grabs punish window.

Afterburner Kick:
Bounces back when connecting so it could be semi safe for shield pressure. I didn't see it connect to any shields so I am guessing based on how it reacts to hitting characters. Can also be used a second time if it connects to either escape a shielded attack or mix up with a second attack.

• Can Afterburner Kick ledge cancel? Possible movement option that also cancels combo lag if so.

Witch Time/Bat's Within:
Seems to need precise timing to activate Witch Time. Bat's Within is more forgiving and can probably be used like Ryu's Focus cancel to ignore attacks and land safely or a bait to punish since it still slows the opponent slightly. Seems like we can control the reappearance so this may be another option to add to her already insane recovery mix ups.

-Bair and Uair seem to auto-cancel or have a very small amount of ending lag. They were both shown as falling attacks into a combo.
-Her grab seems to carry momentum similar to Captain Falcon's grab.
-Fast pummel is nice.
-Crouch avoids projectiles and possibly grabs.
-She can delay combos with bullet arts to bait someone to try and punish.
-Down tilt bullet arts can hit small characters which is nice even though it lacks hitstun.
-Smash attacks cover a lot of range and they are all disjointed attacks. They seem a little slow though.
-Can Bayonetta cancel combo landing lag with an auto-cancel aerial?

If think the Bullet Climax would be able to stall in the air the first time you do it. After that, it won't. Kinda like Cloud's neutral B and Ryu's Focus Attack.

 

[Cat8752]

Anyone gather any information on the approximate frame data of Bayonetta's moves?

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

Otterz Her forward roll: https://youtu.be/Qj6lCPAuB1I?t=7m29s

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

That dash attack is crazy quick...

 

[NekoJubei]

Does her Down Air spike? In the Japanese trailer for Bayonetta, when she does her DAir you hear the spike sound but in the English one you don't.
http://youtu.be/0ssyNI3BBnI skip to 1:24
(Idk if this has been discussed earlier so lol)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Does her Down Air spike? In the Japanese trailer for Bayonetta, when she does her DAir you hear the spike sound but in the English one you don't.
http://youtu.be/0ssyNI3BBnI skip to 1:24
(Idk if this has been discussed earlier so lol)

Considering that it is a stall-then-fall aerial, that's not surprising at all; all stall-then-fall aerials do that (although we have yet to see if Corrin is an exception)

 

[Ffamran]

Does her Down Air spike? In the Japanese trailer for Bayonetta, when she does her DAir you hear the spike sound but in the English one you don't.
http://youtu.be/0ssyNI3BBnI skip to 1:24
(Idk if this has been discussed earlier so lol)

Yep. Bayonetta being a hack 'n' slash game from the director of Devil May Cry would have an aerial like that. In DMC, Dante's "neutral aerial", Helm Breaker, was a slam down like Ike's Aether or Kirby's slam for pretty much all of his weapons except for some that just did one hit in the air. It was also easily setup from High Time... Anyway, Bayonetta also had the same moves and similar setup, but with different names e.g. Stiletto, her dash attack, is Dante's Stinger. It probably won't be a strong spike seeing as in those games, the user had to fall down with the victim usually on the ground for followups. Problem is whether or not it'll be fast enough while being balanced enough that Bayonetta could keep this iconic setup. You can see how easily it would be abused; say, Witch Twist to Dair near the ledge and there you go, a simple spike setup where you fall to the ground and your opponent falls to the blast zone.

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Foward and back rolls. (Blue spark and smoke indicate roll animation)

 

[Greda]

Foward and back rolls.

The first one is her down special.

 

[Burgundy]

The first one is her down special.

Her down special would've had that purple effect around her and moved much less distance.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The first one is her down special.

It's not because Pittoo didn't slow down.

 

[Lakuto]

It's not because Pittoo didn't slow down.

He didn't attack anyway so that's normal there isn't any slowdown.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

He didn't attack anyway so that's normal there isn't any slowdown.

There's that little spark effect you see when characters roll though

 

[Lakuto]

There's that little spark effect you see when characters roll though

Yeah, maybe, it's hard to tell. I was just mentioning that your argument doesn't exclude WT. Either way, it's not a big deal.

 

[Greda]

Her down special would've had that purple effect around her and moved much less distance.

Aside from the scene with Dark Pit, we don't know how much a WT that missed moves. Also, as mentioned before, the purple effect only comes on if the opponent attacks her.

Both of them have insanely similar animation as well.

Regardless, if that really is her back roll, it's a shame they're literal copy and paste versions of each other. I would have expected them to use her other dodging methods.

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Remember people asking if down angled ABK was safe on shield... i found this.

Also wanted to add Witch time sparks start center body and the smoke effect is different. Back roll is the same animation as WT sadly but sparks start at her feet. I'm actually all for this if WT doesn't glow purple at start and only on success. The mix ups from roll spam to WT omg the mind games. Imagine your opponent afraid to punish a roll.

Found ledge get up... was bored. Hours and hours later I didn't find her air dodge or get up attack or ledge get up attack. *Slips away back into the shadows*

 

[Lakuto]

Back roll is the same animation as WT sadly but sparks start at her feet. I'm actually all for this if WT doesn't glow purple at start and only on success. The mix ups from roll spam to WT omg the mind games. Imagine your opponent afraid to punish a roll.

New For Glory tech: Roll, roll, WT, roll, WT, WT, roll

 

[meleebrawler]

Remember people asking if down angled ABK was safe on shield... i found this.

Also wanted to add Witch time sparks start center body and the smoke effect is different. Back roll is the same animation as WT sadly but sparks start at her feet. I'm actually all for this if WT doesn't glow purple at start and only on success. The mix ups from roll spam to WT omg the mind games. Imagine your opponent afraid to punish a roll.

Found ledge get up... was bored. Hours and hours later I didn't find her air dodge or get up attack or ledge get up attack. *Slips away back into the shadows*

Keep in mind Bayonetta had a ledge to escape to after ABK... and it's Zelda.

Most roll punishes are done on the endlag, so at best you'd be getting late bat withins, at worst grabbed especially vs. tethers.

You also have her dash in there. Perhaps dash attack could be a Panther Within slash, or the "stinger" (a thrust with her hand gun).

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Keep in mind Bayonetta had a ledge to escape to after ABK... and it's Zelda.

Most roll punishes are done on the endlag, so at best you'd be getting late bat withins, at worst grabbed especially vs. tethers.

You also have her dash in there. Perhaps dash attack could be a Panther Within slash, or the "stinger" (a thrust with her hand gun).

Op has dash attack gif already it's stilleto. ABK has link dair property on shield. If you look closely zelda power shielded and ABK bounced off. So after shield drop frames you have enough time to jump or attack when zelda jumps... the ledge is just in the way and auto snaps. The statement I made with animations of roll and WT wasn't about being punished. It was to point out that since both animations are so close it might confuse your opponent (if the purple glow is not part of the whiffed WT animation) into second guessing their options.

 

[Theosmeo]

Considering that it is a stall-then-fall aerial, that's not surprising at all; all stall-then-fall aerials do that (although we have yet to see if Corrin is an exception)

It probably just multihit traps them and it's a suicide KO.

Does anyone know her jumpsquat? I know the trailer is only 30fps but it'd be good to know

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Does anyone know her jumpsquat? I know the trailer is only 30fps but it'd be good to know

I don't know if this helps.

Spoiler

Seems close or equal to zss/sheik. So maybe 4 frame squat 2 frame soft 4 from hard.

 

[David Viran]

Does anybody else notice, in that second uair gif, that when you see the fair come out you don't see the third hit and the second hit of it is immediately followed up by an uair? Is that going to be like a jab or something or am I seeing things.

 

[Hinata]

Does anybody else notice, in that second uair gif, that when you see the fair come out you don't see the third hit and the second hit of it is immediately followed up by an uair? Is that going to be like a jab or something or am I seeing things.

Spoiler: The aforementioned gif

Yeah, I see what you mean. You can see the same thing happen during the point in her trailer where they show off the Bayo 1 costume. When Bayonetta's giving Fox the business, near the end of her combo, she hits him with an F-Air, but cancels the final hit into a U-air. So what this means (in theory) is that you can cancel at least the aerials into other aerials when you see fit/when it would make for a better combo.

 

[David Viran]

Spoiler: The aforementioned gif

Yeah, I see what you mean. You can see the same thing happen during the point in her trailer where they show off the Bayo 1 costume. When Bayonetta's giving Fox the business, near the end of her combo, she hits him with an F-Air, but cancels the final hit into a U-air. So what this means (in theory) is that you can cancel at least the aerials into other aerials when you see fit/when it would make for a better combo.

Hmm, I just looked at the combo on Fox again and it didn't look like an uair at all. It looked like how fair normally finished. She only used one leg when doing the final hit instead of two like when she does uair.

 

[Skyfox2000]

I can't really tell what the Dash Attack is? Is it the Panther Within? ( I know I spelled that wrong)

 

[Ffamran]

I can't really tell what the Dash Attack is? Is it the Panther Within? ( I know I spelled that wrong)

It's apparently Stiletto.