Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[Koopaul]

Hold onto your butts, lads

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If it's just a day before, why even bother? It's just a day. Leaks are supposed to fill in the long gaps of waiting and waiting in between announcements. What is the point if its only the day before?

 

[SKX31]

I can get behind this from a competitive standpoint but still, if they act similarly to each other then what's the point?

It's essentially a developer's shortcut. Getting more characters out theoretically (but not practically) while saving on development resources. For example, Melee's infamously crunched development meant loads of clones in a 26 character roster. Namely , , , , and *. That's with getting some more dev time put into him compared to his counterpart, by the way. Since Melee, pretty much all of the Melee clones have had their moveset changed a little - except for because it's who got changed. Again, that's not just a thing with Smash. It's a shortcut every single fighting game dev does because they get more out of it than the time and effort put in.

*(By the by, 4 of the Melee clones have seen a lot of use competitively. 's the "MewtwoKing just picked this to disrespect - and wreck you with 14 upairs in a row." character and 's sadly the forgotten one mostly. Melee's timecrunch meant that characters like his and 's attacks didn't really work properly all the way.)

 

[papagenos]

Don't know if it was announced any earlier but Just Shovels and Knights was in the Japanese Indie World video that just went up.

EDIT: And Cadence of Hyrule is confirmed for June in the same video.

Oh wow, yup another one for the VR Plant Leaker, they got "Just Shovels and Knights" correct and Cadence of Hyrule releasing in June. I do hope they continue to get info and I hope they really are who they claim to be (the person who supposedly leaked Daisy and Ridley on 4chan before E3 last year).

 

[Evil Trapezium]

It's essentially a developer's shortcut. Getting more characters out theoretically (but not practically) while saving on development resources. For example, Melee's infamously crunched development meant loads of clones in a 26 character roster. Namely , , , , and *. That's with getting some more dev time put into him compared to his counterpart, by the way. Since Melee, pretty much all of the Melee clones have had their moveset changed a little - except for because it's who got changed. Again, that's not just a thing with Smash. It's a shortcut every single fighting game dev does because they get more out of it than the time and effort put in.

*(By the by, 4 of the Melee clones have seen a lot of use competitively. 's the "MewtwoKing just picked this to disrespect - and wreck you with 14 upairs in a row." character and 's sadly the forgotten one mostly. Melee's timecrunch meant that characters like his and 's attacks didn't really work properly all the way.)

I do understand that it's a shortcut to extend the roster for fighting games and in most cases, that's fine because they give the clones different properties that give them something to be identified with. However my problem with Lucina and Chrom is that they just don't offer anything remotely different gameplay wise. They are pretty much just more versatile versions of Marth and Roy which ruins the point of having them. Why use the original fighters unreliable swords when you have a clone that has the same kind of sword but with no downsides? It is especially apparent with Lucina and her results in competitive play who renders Marth useless. Because of how Marth basically has three clones of himself and along with the three Links, I don't see how the complaints about too many sword fighters is unjust.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The lack of a tipper/sweetspot is absolutely different gameplay. Outside of Ken, they're the only ones to really stand out due to a completely different gameplay mechanic. The rest are barely tellable beyond aesthetics.

The only two with no real tangible differences at best are Peach and Daisy(hurtbox differences. That's it. Dark PIt has different moves here and there. Chrom and Lucina have to be played differently to be effective, which they're actually easier to play because they lack a mechanic. Richter has a different element for one move, but otherwise is pretty much the same. Not different from Dark PIt in that case. Ken is a stand-out by being super unique). The rest have some actual individuality to some degree. Even some smaller ones.

Marth literally has one clone. Roy stopped being a clone of Marth since 4. They're only slightly similar now, but vastly different these days.

Also, Toon Link isn't remotely the same character from regular and Young Link. Or even TP Link. They're completely different people(and by all means, different characters too, since they're different shapes, sizes, backstories, and even abilities in many ways). They just have a similar body design due to many completely different people named Link and that makes it easy for cloning to work.

 

[Akg0001]

Oh wow, yup another one for the VR Plant Leaker, they got "Just Shovels and Knights" correct and Cadence of Hyrule releasing in June. I do hope they continue to get info and I hope they really are who they claim to be (the person who supposedly leaked Daisy and Ridley on 4chan before E3 last year).
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I hope you stay with them in contact and they get more info soon hopefully! So hyped for E3!

 

[TheAnvil]

It doesn't matter if you have to play Marth, Lucina, Chrom and Roy slightly differently from eachother in order to be effective, they're still largely the same character with a slightly different coat of paint. That's what echo fighters ARE.

We already have a very low number of echo fighters, and TWO of them are on characters who were already similar to begin with.

What's more interesting and offering of more variety?
4 Marths
2 Marths, 2 Olimars and 2 K. Rools?

Especially considering Olimar and K. Rool (for example) are two characters who no other character is like on the entire roster. There's a deal of overlap with several other characters with Marth as it is.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Who would be an echo of K Rool though?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Roy is not an echo fighter nor has he been a regular clone outside of Melee. He’s more akin to Wolf instead, highly unique but used another character as a base. He’s vastly different from Marth or Lucina. Only one actually similar is Chrom. And no, the meme doesn’t make for a valid argument.

In reality, we have two Marths and two Roys.

Autocorrect sucks.

 

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Who would be an echo of K Rool though?

Grunty.

Both experts at kidnapping and taking what is not theirs
Both own and are able to operate large mechanical machines to cause terror among their foes
Both portly and round beings
Both somewhat grotesque
Both have mastered flight in their own respective ways
Both green (If we are referring to Pre-Tooie Grunty)

Otherwise Kaptain K.Rool/Baron/Krusha.

Multiple versions of K.Rool sound more interesting than the certain collection of FE characters we've come accustomed to.

 

[SKX31]

I do understand that it's a shortcut to extend the roster for fighting games and in most cases, that's fine because they give the clones different properties that give them something to be identified with. However my problem with Lucina and Chrom is that they just don't offer anything remotely different gameplay wise. They are pretty much just more versatile versions of Marth and Roy which ruins the point of having them. Why use the original fighters unreliable swords when you have a clone that has the same kind of sword but with no downsides? It is especially apparent with Lucina and her results in competitive play who renders Marth useless. Because of how Marth basically has three clones of himself and along with the three Links, I don't see how the complaints about too many sword fighters is unjust.

Not arguing against your main point - in an ideal world every character brings something new. However, development time and struggle practically forces compromises like clone or echo characters. Ultimate's base roster was decided early on IIRC, so not a lot of wiggle room. (Sidenote, Marth is surprisingly high tier it seems. Not too tier like Lucina, but still)

It doesn't matter if you have to play Marth, Lucina, Chrom and Roy slightly differently from eachother in order to be effective, they're still largely the same character with a slightly different coat of paint. That's what echo fighters ARE.

We already have a very low number of echo fighters, and TWO of them are on characters who were already similar to begin with.

What's more interesting and offering of more variety?
4 Marths
2 Marths, 2 Olimars and 2 K. Rools?

Especially considering Olimar and K. Rool (for example) are two characters who no other character is like on the entire roster. There's a deal of overlap with several other characters with Marth as it is.

I feel you're missing the trees for the forest a little here. Of course, I'm not arguing for 4 Marths- but it's worth pointing out that they're cheap on development resources and easily tie in to a pretty recent game. Sakurai doesn't have infinite time nor resources.

Also, yea you're not going to notice the differences in casual matches. You are going to notice them if you play competitive though. If Banjo gets in I do suspect that even casual B-K mains will have toughest time with - out of the four - Marth. We have a pretty good idea of how B-K would play; problem is, Marth also plays that game and gets the most mileage out of tippers.

On mobile right now, but if people want me to expand on a previous post re: likely matchups for B-K I'll be happy to do so.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Chrom had enough popularity and resources they could use to speed up his development to make all the "ugh another swordsman" complaints not matter.

 

[Vector Victor]

FE Roster:
Fire Marth
Girl Marth
Dad Marth
Muscle Marth
Dragon Marth
Marth Marth
Book Marth
Girl Robin

3 Houses will give us House Marth. A literal house with a sword.


Of course I'm being tongue-in-cheek. Chrom is a character I didn't know I wanted until I got him. And each game, at least one FE character is one of my mains.

I wouldn't be against Celica being added as an off-shoot of Robin.

 

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

FE Roster:

Of course I'm being tongue-in-cheek. Chrom is a character I didn't know I wanted until I got him. And each game, at least one FE character is one of my mains.

I wouldn't be against Celica being added as an off-shoot of Robin.

Agree and a fair point all things considered, Chrom made perfect sense.

In much more interesting and relevant news, the First Four Figures Banjo Kazooie figure is due for release soon. Q3 2019.

https://www.first4figures.com/banjo-kazooie-exclusive.html

A friend of mine who is a big Banjo Kazooie fan and merch collector has shelled out the $$$ to grab this. I'll be sure to grab some personal pics once he receives the figure.

$400+, it makes your eyes water, collectors can be something else!

 

[AngrySun88]

Oh wow, yup another one for the VR Plant Leaker, they got "Just Shovels and Knights" correct and Cadence of Hyrule releasing in June. I do hope they continue to get info and I hope they really are who they claim to be (the person who supposedly leaked Daisy and Ridley on 4chan before E3 last year).
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It's nice to have a leaker with a consistent track record instead of one who's vague and backpedels.

This leaker and Sabi are the ones to follow.

I'll probably check out Sabi's Smash info if she gets any as I don't think I'll be able to handle waiting for that, but for everything else I'll avoid it as I want to be surprised at E3.

 

[TheAnvil]

Who would be an echo of K Rool though?

Lord Frederick? He is essentially an echo in Tropical Freeze and uses a bunch of K. Rool's moves and has a near identical body shape. Just give him Dedede's Up B, drop the armour gimmick (maybe give him a side B where he sprints that functions like Inklings side B) and change the blunderbuss to his horn.

 

[volbound1700]

I feel like the 2nd DLC pack character should have at least been announced or hinted in 1Q of this year and be ready to play by E3 with the 3rd DLC character being revealed at E3. Been a slow process on this pack.

 

[Brothanigus]

It doesn't matter if you have to play Marth, Lucina, Chrom and Roy slightly differently from eachother in order to be effective, they're still largely the same character with a slightly different coat of paint. That's what echo fighters ARE.

We already have a very low number of echo fighters, and TWO of them are on characters who were already similar to begin with.

What's more interesting and offering of more variety?
4 Marths
2 Marths, 2 Olimars and 2 K. Rools?

Especially considering Olimar and K. Rool (for example) are two characters who no other character is like on the entire roster. There's a deal of overlap with several other characters with Marth as it is.

Well IMO echos don't offer anything interesting or any variety since they are clones. I've always hated clones/echos and they should just be skins ala Olimar and Robin. And 18 echos in a roster of 69 is NOT a very low number, that's VERY high. Too much IMO.

 

[TheAnvil]

Well IMO echos don't offer anything interesting or any variety since they are clones. I've always hated clones/echos and they should just be skins ala Olimar and Robin. And 18 echos in a roster of 69 is NOT a very low number, that's VERY high. Too much IMO.

18 echos?

There are like 7.

 

[Deleted member]

18 echos?

There are like 7.

I think he’s refering to

 

[Guynamednelson]

should just be skins ala Olimar and Robin.

No thanks I don't want right-handed Young Link with a Kokiri Sword that's equal in power to the Master Sword. Or Ganondorf having his DORIYAH removed. Or Lucas not having moves that reference Mother 3.

 

[yeet123]

We need Dixie Kong and Proto man echoes. Also give me a Ms Pac Man skin like Olimar/Alph

 

[Evil Trapezium]

The lack of a tipper/sweetspot is absolutely different gameplay. Outside of Ken, they're the only ones to really stand out due to a completely different gameplay mechanic. The rest are barely tellable beyond aesthetics.

The only two with no real tangible differences at best are Peach and Daisy(hurtbox differences. That's it. Dark PIt has different moves here and there. Chrom and Lucina have to be played differently to be effective, which they're actually easier to play because they lack a mechanic. Richter has a different element for one move, but otherwise is pretty much the same. Not different from Dark PIt in that case. Ken is a stand-out by being super unique). The rest have some actual individuality to some degree. Even some smaller ones.

Marth literally has one clone. Roy stopped being a clone of Marth since 4. They're only slightly similar now, but vastly different these days.

Also, Toon Link isn't remotely the same character from regular and Young Link. Or even TP Link. They're completely different people(and by all means, different characters too, since they're different shapes, sizes, backstories, and even abilities in many ways). They just have a similar body design due to many completely different people named Link and that makes it easy for cloning to work.

I completely disagree that Roy is similar to Wolf in clone status.
-Roy still has the same Neutral-air, Up-air and Back-air as Marth.
-Roy still has the same pummels and throws as Marth.
-Roy still has the dancing blade just like Marth and still has a counter like Marth.
-Roy still has the same Down-Tilt as Marth.
-Even though Roy has a different animation for his Forward-air, it functions identically to Marth's forward-air in terms of hitboxes (Not sweet or sour spots)
-Even though Roy has a slightly different Neutral-special and Up-special, their functions are similar.

So I stand by my point that Marth still has three clones.

As for Toon Link, he is still a Link. He is just like every other Link, it's just that he was born in a different place. Same destiny, same journey, same personality (Or lack of it), same Master Sword, same Zelda, same Ganondorf, same Link, same Fighter. In fact, he is comparable to Young Link.
-Both are fast and weaker versions of Adult Link
-They both use a hookshot to grab.
-They can wall jump.
-They use standard bombs.
-Their spin attacks multi hit.
-Their Boomerangs act the same.
-Same Neutral combo, Up-tilt, Down-tilt, Forward-tilt, Dash Attack, Down Smash, Up-air, pummel, Up throw and Down Throw

Sure Toon Link does have unique attacks but his status as a Link makes him look more of a clone than characters like Falco. I can barely count Lucas to be a clone because the only moves that he shares with Ness are his Forward Smash, his pummel and the special moves and even then that's reaching since the differences between their functions are night and day.

 

[BZocky]

Who would be an echo of K Rool though?

King Hippo but replace the blunderbuss with his knockout move

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Who would be an echo of K Rool though?

Wart the Final Boss from Super Mario Bros 2.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Agree and a fair point all things considered, Chrom made perfect sense.

In much more interesting and relevant news, the First Four Figures Banjo Kazooie figure is due for release soon. Q3 2019.

https://www.first4figures.com/banjo-kazooie-exclusive.html

A friend of mine who is a big Banjo Kazooie fan and merch collector has shelled out the $$$ to grab this. I'll be sure to grab some personal pics once he receives the figure.

$400+, it makes your eyes water, collectors can be something else!

I'm getting one of these too actually!

 

[Mr. Stagg]

Oh wow, yup another one for the VR Plant Leaker, they got "Just Shovels and Knights" correct and Cadence of Hyrule releasing in June. I do hope they continue to get info and I hope they really are who they claim to be (the person who supposedly leaked Daisy and Ridley on 4chan before E3 last year).
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I find it odd how the VR Plant leaker included their own personal speculation for the double reveal of the next 2 fighter pass characters. Based on this dude's surprising track record so far it stands to reason that he'd know a little bit more about how these 2 supposed reveals are going to go down. I know that he does not know WHO it is, but I wonder if he knows more about the semantics AROUND the reveals. Things like if we ARE going to get a double reveal and when they plan to do it. Im still a little scared because this new leaker has already surpassed Veggie-burger in credibility. Whatever this guy says can either make or break our Duo's chances.

Being a slightly paranoid man, im a little suspicious of these discord leakers who get blocked out due to your respectful nature(Papagenos). Last thing we need is a troll from that Steve discord raid group wiggling into some credibility to punk Banjo-fans.

 

[Lycan Rex]

Just played with the new patch installed. Glad they didn't nerf wolf too much. I for sure thought they would destroy him, considering all the complaints he's gotten.

 

[ivanlerma]

Did anyone get the Peachette spirit yet? i got her.

 

[ColtonS25]

I find it odd how the VR Plant leaker included their own personal speculation for the double reveal of the next 2 fighter pass characters. Based on this dude's surprising track record so far it stands to reason that he'd know a little bit more about how these 2 supposed reveals are going to go down. I know that he does not know WHO it is, but I wonder if he knows more about the semantics AROUND the reveals. Things like if we ARE going to get a double reveal and when they plan to do it. Im still a little scared because this new leaker has already surpassed Veggie-burger in credibility. Whatever this guy says can either make or break our Duo's chances.

Being a slightly paranoid man, im a little suspicious of these discord leakers who get blocked out due to your respectful nature(Papagenos). Last thing we need is a troll from that Steve discord raid group wiggling into some credibility to punk Banjo-fans.

To be fair to this person though, they’d probably get bombarded with questions asking about Smash when their stuff started coming true. So they might have just thrown in that they don’t know DLC, but they still have predictions because people love to ask about who leakers think are gonna get in.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Did anyone get the Peachette spirit yet? i got her.

I did but I missed my chance to get the Labo spirits and now my spirit collection is incomplete and now it is bugging me.

 

[Koopaul]

Why do people hate Vergeben so much when he was 90% right with leaks for Ultimate?

Is it the Minecraft thing?

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Why do people hate Vergeben so much when he was 90% right with leaks for Ultimate?

Is it the Minecraft thing?

He has a tendency to act a bit like a smug know-it-all sometimes. As for Minecraft, it's the fact that he's committed to making Minecraft the hill he dies on yet every time something puts a hole in that he keeps backpedaling

"Steve is coming and is playable in an early build. Wait, actually its just Minecraft content. Wait, actually it's a boss. Wait actually I never said Steve was coming"

 

[BigZGaming2015]

That's like the one thing I don't like about the guy. Theirs times where he really just seems like a total ****.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

He has a tendency to act a bit like a smug know-it-all sometimes. As for Minecraft, it's the fact that he's committed to making Minecraft the hill he dies on yet every time something puts a hole in that he keeps backpedaling

"Steve is coming and is playable in an early build. Wait, actually its just Minecraft content. Wait, actually it's a boss. Wait actually I never said Steve was coming"

How many times does it need to be said that Vergeben never claimed Steve is happening. Literally the only thing he’s ever said is “Minecraft content.” Dude probably acts like a jerk because people are constantly putting words in his mouth that he never actually said and then using it against him somehow. Wouldn’t that annoy you?

 

[AngrySun88]

He has a tendency to act a bit like a smug know-it-all sometimes. As for Minecraft, it's the fact that he's committed to making Minecraft the hill he dies on yet every time something puts a hole in that he keeps backpedaling

"Steve is coming and is playable in an early build. Wait, actually its just Minecraft content. Wait, actually it's a boss. Wait actually I never said Steve was coming"

Agreed. It's his smug arrogance, vagueness, and refusal to admit that he's wrong that I can't stand about him. I also think he knows **** about the DLC and is trying to pass off speculation as actual leaks.

"I'm sensing there could be a Square character. I have a list of seven names. It's looking like Dragon Quest? Alright, I'm going all in on Erdrick!"

I still find it difficult to believe that he knows the DLC months before the release, and this fabled Minecraft content still hasn't happened.

 

[Koopaul]

Yeah if I remember correctly he had only heard about Steve from a source he considered questionable. He reports what he hears.

What happens if there is Minecraft content and we do get a Square character? I suppose people will still try to discredit him.

 

[TheHeartbreakKid]

What happens if there is Minecraft content and we do get a Square character? I suppose people will still try to discredit him.

It has to be Erdrick. He recently said unequivocally that Erdrick was in

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

It has to be Erdrick. He recently said unequivocally that Erdrick was in

I still have a hard time believe Erdrick isn't leakbait. If he's in, he's officially the worst kept secret in Smash history. At least Steve has reasonable doubt making him 50/50

 

[AngrySun88]

I still have a hard time believe Erdrick isn't leakbait. If he's in, he's officially the worst kept secret in Smash history. At least Steve has reasonable doubt making him 50/50

We still have no definitive proof that Erdrick is in. I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if he's in, but all we have to go by is Verge's word. It's entirely possible that the whole Square thing was leakbait as I have difficulty believing that he knows the DLC that far in advance.