Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[GenoFlash]

So uh

If Aubrey Norris was expressing disdain for Steve as a fighter on Nov 2nd and Sakurai said the DLC was finalized on Nov 7th, wouldn't that be wildly voiding of an NDA if Steve was in, or if not just considerably and knowingly bad PR for the character?

I find, more than anything, the utter silence over Banjo's inclusion to be the most important piece of evidence. Aubrey Norris and Frank O' Connor have both said things indicating Steve and Master Chief won't be in,, or at least that they don't believe they deserve to be in, while Banjo hasn't had a single peep since Ultimate's DLC season started. Phil Spencer tweeted twice about Banjo's inclusion during Smash For's DLC season but now, when he's doubtlessly getting even more requests for his inclusion than ever before, he's silent. And that's not even getting into the whole LootCrate fiasco.

Press F to Guh Huh.

 

[AngrySun88]

Yeah, exactly. Though people will swear up and down that "THAT DOESN'T COUNT!"

Yup. If Steve was in, I highly doubt that someone with a high profile position like her would be saying anything about Steve, let alone giving him bad PR and essentially deconfirming him.

Hasn't Sabi/Polar Panda also heard from Microsoft sources that Steve is deconfirmed and that Banjo is in? I thought someone here earlier claimed that they did.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Are there any insiders speaking of Steve anymore now that Hitagi has become suspect and Verge is backpedaling

 

[Violante]

I find, more than anything, the utter silence over Banjo's inclusion to be the most important piece of evidence. Aubrey Norris and Frank O' Connor have both said things indicating Steve and Master Chief won't be in,, or at least that they don't believe they deserve to be in, while Banjo hasn't had a single peep since Ultimate's DLC season started. Phil Spencer tweeted twice about Banjo's inclusion during Smash For's DLC season but now, when he's doubtlessly getting even more requests for his inclusion than ever before, he's silent. And that's not even getting into the whole LootCrate fiasco.

Press F to Guh Huh.

I'd bet Gregg Mayles would tell you straight if he knew anything about it. But don't @ him on Twitter, in the case that he does because I'd like to keep false hope alive a few more weeks.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I find, more than anything, the utter silence over Banjo's inclusion to be the most important piece of evidence. Aubrey Norris and Frank O' Connor have both said things indicating Steve and Master Chief won't be in,, or at least that they don't believe they deserve to be in, while Banjo hasn't had a single peep since Ultimate's DLC season started. Phil Spencer tweeted twice about Banjo's inclusion during Smash For's DLC season but now, when he's doubtlessly getting even more requests for his inclusion than ever before, he's silent. And that's not even getting into the whole LootCrate fiasco.

Press F to Guh Huh.

The absence of evidence is not evidence. I would have thought we as a community would have figured out that silence doesn't mean anything specifically in the least bit. Silence is utterly convenient because it can be manipulated into whatever you want it to be, especially when you're working with big companies that might have any number of things going on and are in no way obligated to release any sort of information to us besides what they officially announce in press releases.

Cuphead on Switch is the sort of thing with a thousands times more compelling "evidence" of Microsoft's relationship with Nintendo at this moment.

Also, pressing F only really makes sense if Banjo Kazooie doesn't make it in haha.

 

[JonSmash]

Artorias is geting a F4F statue just like banjo kazooie ! Google theory ?

 

[GenoFlash]

I'd bet Gregg Mayles would tell you straight if he knew anything about it. But don't @ him on Twitter, in the case that he does because I'd like to keep false hope alive a few more weeks.

Gregg's still at Rare right? He'd be under NDA.

The absence of evidence is not evidence. I would have thought we as a community would have figured out that silence doesn't mean anything specifically in the least bit. Silence is utterly convenient because it can be manipulated into whatever you want it to be, especially when you're working with big companies that might have any number of things going on and are in no way obligated to release any sort of information to us besides what they officially announce in press releases.

Cuphead on Switch is the sort of thing with a thousands times more compelling "evidence" of Microsoft's relationship with Nintendo at this moment.

Also, pressing F only really makes sense if Banjo Kazooie doesn't make it in haha.

It's not a matter of silence, it's that Steve, Master Chief and even Cuphead have all had people involved in their current franchises outright state that their characters aren't in. The silence around Banjo, especially in comparison to Phil Spencer tweeting twice about how he'd like to see Banjo in Smash For, is relevant to this discussion by how it stands out in comparison to other probable Microsoft IPs (in the sense that no one here is arguing for Blinx the Cat).

 

[Evil Trapezium]

The absence of evidence is not evidence. I would have thought we as a community would have figured out that silence doesn't mean anything specifically in the least bit. Silence is utterly convenient because it can be manipulated into whatever you want it to be, especially when you're working with big companies that might have any number of things going on and are in no way obligated to release any sort of information to us besides what they officially announce in press releases.

Cuphead on Switch is the sort of thing with a thousands times more compelling "evidence" of Microsoft's relationship with Nintendo at this moment.

Also, pressing F only really makes sense if Banjo Kazooie doesn't make it in haha.

To add to GenoFlash's post, if Banjo Kazooie wasn't in Smash, they'd have no reason to be silent about it. They have talked about Banjo Kazooie's chances of being in Smash Ultimate before with this tweet.

If that were ever to happen it wouldn't be for us to announce!

— Rare Ltd. (@RareLtd) June 29, 2018

 

[TAnimal]

Tell us those 10 reasons. I'm convinced that spirits deconfirm characters.

1. We have not heard Confirmation from Sakurai, Nintendo, or anyone involved with this Game that any Character chosen as a Spirit is not eligible for DLC.
2. These images are based from Source artworks from individual Games (including Rayman’s artwork from Origins/Legends)
3. Sakurai is usually not the kind of person that actually has a character that doesn’t have his aesthetic be coming from another Game, he actually instead Smashify’s his work just like all the other’s. Which is why when Trophies didn’t return in Ultimate and Spirit’s where introduced with the exact artwork from other Games suggests that this is in no way close to being an actual determining factor on what couldn’t be made for DLC, because DLC is a separate workforce of content.
4. Coming from 3., Base and DLC Work is a totally separate content division production line. Here’s an example, back in Smash 4 Sakurai made 2-Trophies that would ultimately be turned into Fighter’s who would be Mewtwo and Lucas, with that very example it’s now been established that Sakurai is not always true to keeping content the same in both divisions, especially when you have Nintendo making the choices for DLC with Collaborations like Microsoft, Ubisoft, Bethesda, Capcom, Namco, SEGA, Konami, Square Enix, Koei-Tecmo, etc. while Sakurai is making the choices for what Characters will be in which Fighter’s Pass.
5. Nintendo is picking the DLC this time around and the DLC content is selected by collaboration’s from other developers to bring in New Fans for Ultimate. With how DLC has been presented and worked around with Joker/Persona, this reeks of No Nintendo Character additions but rather Popular collaborations with major 3rd-Party Companies, here’s an Example between Banjo-Kazooie and Steve who has more Content, Creativity, History, Fanbase & Smashfiying for DLC?
- Content: When a Character is announced, there needs to be Content that comes with hence the Joker Pack with 11-Music Tracks, an Interactive Stage like Momentos, Mii Costumes that are broadened with Fan Favorite, Imaginative side Characters like the Persona Mii Costumes = Banjo-Kazooie Costumes with like Mumbo Jumbo, Tooty, Bottles, Gruntilda and even a Taj Costume, than you can add other Microsoft/Rare Costumes like Conker and Minecraft Steve or Creeper Costume. (Which is exactly the downfall of Minecraft Representation since (despite what Minecraft fans try to say) Minecraft REALLY doesn’t have that much Content to provide for people to get hooked on Minecraft).
- Creativity: As much as Steve fans try to Stretch SO Hard on how creative Steve is, the Truth of the matter is that Minecraft does NOT translate well into another game, hence Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Steve Fans will Defend that since they know everything but in actuality and reality is that when you actually look at all the Stages and Characters only 1-Character/Stage was able to have a transition from its Origin into Smash Bros and that is Mr. Game & Watch since it’s whole thing is about 2D Graphics and a Stage that is just a portable game, but the real thing about (Mr.) Game & Watch is that the transition came with an abundance of Changes from its source material and that Nintendo owns those licenses to actually let Sakurai altar the essence of the Game & Watch Games, Minecraft on the other hand is a Western (European and American) product that requires way more hands on approach than Banjo-Kazooie is since Banjo-Kazooie Design of the Games is so simplistic that all you need is a cup of coffee with creators and it’ll be just a snap of a finger to get Super Smash Bros Ultimate X Banjo-Kazooie Creativity in the Games Roster and Content.
- History: History is the Key thing into Getting Popular Characters and Franchises represented and what Super Smash Bros is at Heart, sure you can say that Cloud Strife and Joker Never appeared in the Nintendo Consoles but where PlayStation created characters, however the loophole involved with their inclusion is that Cloud’s series Final Fantasy and Joker’s series SMT actually originated from the Famicom/NES consoles back in ‘87 Representing the classic era of Nintendo Video Games. Which is exactly what Banjo-Kazooie has over Steve since Minecraft came 16-Years way too late to be a Nintendo character, Hell he's as much of a Microsoft Character as he would be to Banjo-Kazooie which they where Born into Nintendo with Diddy Kong Racing than Banjo-Kazooie 8-Months apart on N64. Yes, there’s also Bayonetta who was atleast 5-Years into her birth than brought in as a Playable Fighter in Smash 4, however that character was becoming more Nintendo now since her inclusion in Smash 4 and remained a Nintendo Character since which is what Banjo has over Steve since Minecraft is everywhere but Banjo is only Nintendo and Xbox hence they’re a easy choice for Sakurai to bring in.
- Fanbase: Now in terms of what the Massive Fandom for Minecraft and Banjo-Kazooie is like, the more majority of the Massive Fandom goes to Minecraft since there are a whopping 100 million fans into Minecraft. However there are 2-problems with Minecraft Getting Representation, 1. Despite what Steve Fans have claimed the more Popular character that is more of the Star than Steve is The Creeper since it is the Major Mascot of the Game and represents the Game as a whole for its (as you would imagine) more Iconic than Steve or any Minecraft designed character, 2. More Minecraft Fans have made the case that Steve isn’t that talked about as is Banjo and Kazooie is in Majority Requests by Smash Bros Fans and as Banjo-Kazooie Fans equally. Which is why Fandom is Important but only if it’s absolutely Universal Majority which is what Banjo has over Steve right now Exclusively to Super Smash Bros Ultimate. Plus Joker has the smallest amount of Fans in Ultimate when his Series Sold 9 Million Copies over a Minecraft Which has sold 180-Million Copies, if anything that should have been proven to been Steve as the First DLC Fighter.
- Smashfiying: Now this is the most important one amongst the 5, how a character fits into being a Super Smash Bros Character. This is something that was tested with Characters like PAC-MAN, Mega Man, Sonic The Hedgehog, Solid Snake, Cloud Strife, Bayonetta, Ryu, Ken Masters, The Belmont’s, Joker, Ridley, King K. Rool, Ganondorf, Bowser, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B, Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, The Mii’s, just about all of these characters prior to the Original 8-12 in the First Smash Bros that was adapted for their inclusions by altering their essential appearances. Between Banjo-Kazooie and Steve the more Simplest to pick is Banjo while Steve is without even a thought the most difficult to actually adapt to another game like and including Super Smash Bros. Cause with Steve you would need the Minecraft Team to actually need to altar Steve’s essence but at the same time betray the Meaning of the Characterization of the Rep, but with Banjo you basically already have material that actually fits into Super Smash Bros that Easily and you breath the Character to life in Super Smash Bros.
So now with all of that out of the way Rayman would no doubt fit all 5 of the criteria’s needed to be in because you have a Hint if the Content which is His (Rayman’s) own Spirit that you can easily have it unaltered and bring his own Fighter Spirit simply by calling it “Rayman (Fighter Spirit)” and Add Rayman Characters with the Rayman Pack like Glowbox, Barbara, Rabbids, Teensies, etc with the Spirit’s, Mii Costume’s and a Rayman Music from all Rayman Games, you have a lot of Creativity for the Character and Stage with the Creative use in Super Smash Bros Ultimate since Rayman and the World he comes from is a Love Letter to Smash Bros Fans and Rayman Fans, There is History with Rayman and Nintendo dating back not just Rayman 2 in N64 but behind the scenes history of the Very First Rayman Game Originally supposed to be in the First Nintendo Disc made Rayman Game but instead ended up in Playstation 1 only for the sequel to go on the N64, The Fanbase is Still demanding for Rayman to be added into the Roster of Legends and Like I said before Rayman is a Destined Super Smash Bros Character in the making.

I’ll continue with the other 5 Examples later tonight…

 

[ChaosAngelZone]

Artorias is geting a F4F statue just like banjo kazooie ! Google theory ?

And this is right after First 4 Figures was invited by Rare to attend E3, as well! Could be a coincidence, but this definitely does make me wonder...

 

[TheZoologist]

Most wanted characters as of Smash Ultimate:

1. Banjo & Kazooie (duh!)
2. Rayman (I really didn't grow up with Rayman, but he's got such a neat design and tons of moveset potential I would love to see in Smash)
3. Paper Mario (another Mario character but one I feel could be VERY different from Mario AND would be another N64 rep that I loved as a kid)
4. Shovel Knight (An assist trophy for an indie rep is nothing to sneeze at but I would still love to see him make the jump to playable!)
5. Spring Man/Ribbon Girl (ARMS) (why they relegated Spring Man to Assist Trophy and NOT as one of the DLC is beyond me!)
6. Issac (Golden Sun) (gotta support our brothers/sisters-in-arms who've been waiting as long as we have for ANYTHING related to our games!)
7. Slash (Snowboard Kids) (out there, weird, obscure nostalgia fuel that I don't know how it would work in Smash, but damn would I love some Snowboard Kids representation! Plus it would be another N64 character who would represent my favorite era of Nintendo)
8. Crono (Chrono Trigger) (If there's any Square-Enix rep I'd really want, it'd be either Geno or Crono, but for the sake of this list, Crono is the way to go)
9. Krystal (Star Fox) (Yeah its great seeing her as an assist trophy, but I would love to see her make the jump to playable, especially if she can wield her staff, which would be a unique weapon in Smash I think!)
10. Earthworm Jim (Heck yeah! The worm is back! And he needs to join Smash along with Rayman and Banjo as some crazy cartoony third party reps!)

With Wario, King Dedede, Sonic the Hedgehog, Mega Man, Little Mac, Pac-Man, Ridley, King K. Rool, and Simon Belmont in, any of these characters added to the roster, but especially Banjo & Kazooie, would make me extremely happy!

 

[Violante]

To add to GenoFlash's post, if Banjo Kazooie wasn't in Smash, they'd have no reason to be silent about it. They have talked about Banjo Kazooie's chances of being in Smash Ultimate before with this tweet.

If that were ever to happen it wouldn't be for us to announce!

— Rare Ltd. (@RareLtd) June 29, 2018

that predates the DLC's finalization by two months ; )

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

So about two pages ago I tried to do a writeup on all of the evidence for both Steve and Banjo. I want to try and do a more complete version here
I'm not interested in reasons as to WHY Steve or Banjo deserve to be in Smash here, I'm looking purely at evidence and facts. Ergo I'm not going to be talking about Google Theory

Putting everything in spoiler tags because otherwise this would be a wall of words and I want to make this easy to read and digest

Spoiler: Evidence for Steve

Evidence for Steve

There has been a lot of "He said, she said" regarding Steve, but what's peculiar is that no one can keep their story straight and facts vary depending on who you ask. Vergeben, the dude we love to hate, had gotten the base roster for Smash Bros. correct and accurate right up to the release; but Minecraft has been the one thing that's haunted him and the one thing he's consistently blown.

At one point he said a source said Steve was playable in an early build, but that turned out to be false. At one point he claimed Enderdragon would be a boss, but that ended up being Rathalos' files reading as "Endragon" there was also a theory/joke that his source confused the Cubivore Pig spirit for the Minecraft pig.

And that's just Vergeben, other people who've claimed Minecraft is in Smash have had conflicting claims. This post from /v/ does a good job summarizing it

Spoiler: Insider confusion summarized

Presently, Vergeben has recently stated that he still believes Minecraft is coming to Smash; but that he's not necessarily backing Steve as playable and that the claim that he WAS playable in an early build was probably false

Spoiler: Verg's latest claim

Meanwhile, two of Mojang's own employees have openly talked about Steve in Smash. Aubrery Norris the community manager, has been very upfront over how she believes Steve would be a bad choice to be a playable Minecraft rep. TheRaddestBro is a staff member on Minecraft's official Discord who openly said "Steve is not in Smash", but suddenly walked that back the next day when his response went viral.

Spoiler: RaddestBro on damage control?

People were quick to dimiss RaddestBro when it was discovered he was a very new employee of the company at the time so "He wouldn't know". Which is fair, but Aubrey Norris is one people flip-flop on: Some say that the fact that she's speaking about it openly and being very frank about how she thinks Steve is a bad pick and that she's rather high up on the company means that Steve is deconfirmed, while others say that her personal opinions don't matter and that her word doesn't count and that she wouldn't know either. Another thing to note is, she is VERY well aware of how much this is currently a hot-button conversation within the Smash community

Spoiler: Aubrey knows what we're arguing about

Again, I'm looking at this purely from a facts and logic perspective, and what I see is someone very affluent within Mojang bad-mouthing their own mascots chances of being in Smash. If Steve were hypothetically in Smash, it seems to me that someone higher up on the company would have requested her to take the tweets down. Some argue that having her take the tweets down would make it look too suspicious... but a similar thing happened on Banjo's side which I'll get to.

The point is... If Steve truly IS in Smash Bros, than this is some seriously BAD PR for Mojang to allow their staff to openly diss their mascot and how they'd be a bad fit for Smash Bros.

At the end of the day... there's actually not a lot going for Steve. All we have is second-hand knowledge and "Take my word for it"'s from insiders. The biggest 'evidence' is actually pointing against Steve's chances here.

Now, let's look at Banjo

Spoiler: Evidence for Banjo

Evidence for Banjo

Banjo also has a lot of "He said, she said" going on, but this seems to be a bit more straight-forward. No debating if one character is going to be a boss or a spirit, it's either they're in or they're not.

Indiegamerchick has heavily leaned on Banjo being in, along with the N64 Classic and/or Rare Replay coming to the Switch since about last year; but none of these have managed to materialize just yet. Despite this, she is a credible insider: Her claim to fame is that she knew ahead of time who was going to be taking Mr. Iwata's place temporarily after his passing, but she's also gotten:

The Metroid 2 Remake that happened on 3DS
Simon and Richter
SNES classic and Star Fox 2 finally being finished

Here's what she had to say about Microsoft and Nintendo:

Spoiler: IDC on Microsoft, Rare, and Nintendo

Jez Corden is a Senior Editor at Windows Central and a Microsoft insider. He runs a podcast with Rand Al Thor called "The Xbox Two" where they discussed Banjo being in from a reliable source back in December ( Thanks BZocky for bringing this to my attention)

But insiders are just people asking us to trust them, do we have any evidence or signs that Banjo is coming? Actually, we do! A disclaimer here is that ALL of these points can easily be circumstantial evidence, but it's worth looking into all the same.

1. The big one: Coding for Rareware spirits (Specifically Blast Corps and Jet Force Gemini) were found during the initial datamine for the game once it released.
2. Initial stats for a fighter codnamed Brave painted a picture of a fighter with a sliding turn and a floaty jump; two traits Banjo is known for in the two games.
3. Lootcrate was at one point offering a Banjo-Kazooie item in their upcoming box and even tweeted out about Banjo-Kazooie in Smash Bros. Suddenly, the tweet was yanked down very quickly and the Banjo item vanished from the box, leaving customers bewildered and confused.

Spoiler: Said deleted tweet

4. First4Figures, the company known for making high end Banjo-Kazooie and Conker statues has been invited personally by Rare themselves to attend E3 this year.
5. Phil Spencer has been very open up until now about wanting Banjo in Smash. He's even been dismissive on the idea of Microsoft doing their own Mascot brawler and he believes only Nintendo has the star-power to pull the concept off. So the fact that he's ONLY ever brought up Banjo as the one character from HIS company he'd think would be a fit for Smash means he clearly holds the duo in high regard

Spoiler: Phil on Microsoft having their own mascot brawler

6. At one point, Mii Sword Fighter and Duck Hunt would cause All-Star Mode to crash the game. Bowser Jr. had previously caused this same glitch to occur. It was discovered that Pirahna Plant used Bowser Jr. as a 'base' character to build off of. We know for a fact that the dev team will sometimes take a character's framework and build a new character out of them; such as Ike being used as a base to build Cloud and Zero Suit Samus being used to make Bayonetta. This has led to the assumption that Duck Hunt could be used to build out Banjo and Kazooie.


There was also a recent story from Discord about how paperwork for Banjo amiibo were seen for allocating space in a warehouse; but without physical evidence I'm not adding that to the list.

As I said though, ALL of these points could easily be circumstantial or mere coincidence: Some say the Rare spirits are due to Nintendo being confused over if they owned the rights, Brave could easily be another character, Lootcrate maybe just ran into a problem and had to ditch the Banjo item, First4 may just be invited to show off a Battletoads or Sea of Thieves statue, and Phil Spencer saying he wants Banjo in Smash could have just been a PR answer (He actually addressed this claim in an interview, but the wording is so vague that it could be taken either way)

Spoiler: Phil on his "PR answer"

However, you have to admit, circumstantial evidence is better than NO evidence. Banjo actually has more going for him than Steve does right now. Steve's biggest evidence is striking AGAINST him, while Banjo has a set of circumstances and events that seem to be pointing in his favor

Only E3 will tell for sure

 

[ChaosAngelZone]

Ooh, we're doing most wanted characters now? Count me in!

1. Banjo & Kazooie – Probably obvious since I’m here. The iconic heroes from one of my favorite games of all time. Banjo-Kazooie is right up there with Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time as the most important games of the N64 era to me.

2. Dixie Kong – Pretty much the only Nintendo character left that’s not already in that I really want as a playable fighter. DKC 2 is one of my all-time favorites, and it would be great to complete the trio by having Diddy, Dixie, and K. Rool all in.

3. NiGHTS – Never going to happen I know, but as a massive classic Sega fan I would just love so much for this character to be in Smash.

4. Scorpion – Mortal Kombat was a huge part of my childhood, and plus it would be incredibly awesome to finally have official Street Fighter vs. Mortal Kombat battles.

5. Crash Bandicoot – I was always more of a Nintendo and Sega guy rather than Playstation back in the late ‘90s, but I always loved this character. The recent remake makes me want him in Smash a lot more now.

6. Klonoa – Another “never going to happen” pipe dream character for me. The Klonoa games are some of my favorites on the PS1 and PS2, and he would definitely fit right in with the other mascot characters.

7. Ashley – I know, she’s already an Assist Trophy. I think she could make a pretty awesome fighter, though. Plus, I’m a huge fan of WarioWare, so more representation from that would always be welcome to me.

8. Geno – To be honest, I hadn’t played much of Super Mario RPG until just recently when I got my SNES Classic, so I don’t have too much nostalgic attachment to him like others do, but I always thought that he looked really cool and would be a good character for Smash.

9. Tails – I’m pretty sure another Sonic character isn’t going to happen, but if it does, it should absolutely be one of the most iconic sidekicks in all of gaming.

10. Groose – Kind of my “joke pick”, but I actually really like Groose and his obnoxious mannerisms in Skyward Sword, and would unironically love to see him as a fighter in Smash.

 

[Nazyrus]

So we doing personal most wanted huh, well i don't have much time to do descriptions so i will just list mine up:
• Banjo Kazooie (duh)
• Sephiroth
• Dante
• Sora
• Lloyd Irving
• Spyro
• Isaac
• Geno
• Skull Kid
• Sub Zero

 

[yeet123]

I can't wait to rip apart mii fighters dressed as Steve while playing as the Bear

 

[nirvanafan]

Obviously Banjo is my top pick, after that Crash is the only other character i would be super excited for.

As you may be able to tell from my signature i think Hayabusa and Kos-mos would be cool too but not at the same level as Banjo or even Crash.

Honestly though as long as I enjoy or am interested in the game, like the character, and think they would fit in with everyone in Smash, then I would be happy with whoever is being added (although I do favor seeing new franchises being added). There are too many characters that fit that criteria to list but a few of the bigger ones at the top of my head are Spring Man, Edward Falcon, Nights, Paper Boy, and Earthworm Jim.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Are there any insiders speaking of Steve anymore now that Hitagi has become suspect and Verge is backpedaling

The issue is Hitagi was always suspect, and Verge isn't backpedaling. His mantra is still the same--doesn't mean Steve isn't in, but isn't sure if he is or not, only Minecraft content. He's been fairly consistent on that point.

As for chatter on Twitter--only those who signed a NDA have to be silent, all that means is she didn't sign a NDA/privy to any talks that could have potentially happened. Not everyone involved in a game/company are need-to-know. And for Rare, they have no reason to be silent or to respond if they're not in. And those who are in, won't say. There's no way to deduce which is which, unless it's a direct deconfirmation by the rights holder.

 

[Organization XIII]

So uh

If Aubrey Norris was expressing disdain for Steve as a fighter on Nov 2nd and Sakurai said the DLC was finalized on Nov 7th, wouldn't that be wildly voiding of an NDA if Steve was in, or if not just considerably and knowingly bad PR for the character?

It wouldn't violate an NDA but yes bad PR.

 

[Izanagi97]

So about two pages ago I tried to do a writeup on all of the evidence for both Steve and Banjo. I want to try and do a more complete version here
I'm not interested in reasons as to WHY Steve or Banjo deserve to be in Smash here, I'm looking purely at evidence and facts. Ergo I'm not going to be talking about Google Theory

Putting everything in spoiler tags because otherwise this would be a wall of words and I want to make this easy to read and digest

Spoiler: Evidence for Steve

Evidence for Steve

There has been a lot of "He said, she said" regarding Steve, but what's peculiar is that no one can keep their story straight and facts vary depending on who you ask. Vergeben, the dude we love to hate, had gotten the base roster for Smash Bros. correct and accurate right up to the release; but Minecraft has been the one thing that's haunted him and the one thing he's consistently blown.

At one point he said a source said Steve was playable in an early build, but that turned out to be false. At one point he claimed Enderdragon would be a boss, but that ended up being Rathalos' files reading as "Endragon" there was also a theory/joke that his source confused the Cubivore Pig spirit for the Minecraft pig.

And that's just Vergeben, other people who've claimed Minecraft is in Smash have had conflicting claims. This post from /v/ does a good job summarizing it

Spoiler: Insider confusion summarized

View attachment 224312

Presently, Vergeben has recently stated that he still believes Minecraft is coming to Smash; but that he's not necessarily backing Steve as playable and that the claim that he WAS playable in an early build was probably false

Spoiler: Verg's latest claim

View attachment 224315

Meanwhile, two of Mojang's own employees have openly talked about Steve in Smash. Aubrery Norris the community manager, has been very upfront over how she believes Steve would be a bad choice to be a playable Minecraft rep. TheRaddestBro is a staff member on Minecraft's official Discord who openly said "Steve is not in Smash", but suddenly walked that back the next day when his response went viral.

Spoiler: RaddestBro on damage control?

View attachment 224314

People were quick to dimiss RaddestBro when it was discovered he was a very new employee of the company at the time so "He wouldn't know". Which is fair, but Aubrey Norris is one people flip-flop on: Some say that the fact that she's speaking about it openly and being very frank about how she thinks Steve is a bad pick and that she's rather high up on the company means that Steve is deconfirmed, while others say that her personal opinions don't matter and that her word doesn't count and that she wouldn't know either. Another thing to note is, she is VERY well aware of how much this is currently a hot-button conversation within the Smash community

Spoiler: Aubrey knows what we're arguing about

View attachment 224316

Again, I'm looking at this purely from a facts and logic perspective, and what I see is someone very affluent within Mojang bad-mouthing their own mascots chances of being in Smash. If Steve were hypothetically in Smash, it seems to me that someone higher up on the company would have requested her to take the tweets down. Some argue that having her take the tweets down would make it look too suspicious... but a similar thing happened on Banjo's side which I'll get to.

At the end of the day... there's actually not a lot going for Steve. All we have is second-hand knowledge and "Take my word for it"'s from insiders. The biggest 'evidence' is actually pointing against Steve's chances here.

Now, let's look at Banjo

Spoiler: Evidence for Banjo

Evidence for Banjo

Banjo also has a lot of "He said, she said" going on, but this seems to be a bit more straight-forward. No debating if one character is going to be a boss or a spirit, it's either they're in or they're not.

Indiegamerchick has heavily leaned on Banjo being in, along with the N64 Classic and/or Rare Replay coming to the Switch since about last year; but none of these have managed to materialize just yet. Despite this, she is a credible insider: Her claim to fame is that she knew ahead of time who was going to be taking Mr. Iwata's place temporarily after his passing, but she's also gotten:

The Metroid 2 Remake that happened on 3DS
Simon and Richter
SNES classic and Star Fox 2 finally being finished

Here's what she had to say about Microsoft and Nintendo:

Spoiler: IDC on Microsoft, Rare, and Nintendo

View attachment 224317

Jez Corden is a Senior Editor at Windows Central and a Microsoft insider. He runs a podcast with Rand Al Thor called "The Xbox Two" where they discussed Banjo being in from a reliable source back in December ( Thanks BZocky for bringing this to my attention)

But insiders are just people asking us to trust them, do we have any evidence or signs that Banjo is coming? Actually, we do! A disclaimer here is that ALL of these points can easily be circumstantial evidence, but it's worth looking into all the same.

1. The big one: Coding for Rareware spirits (Specifically Blast Corps and Jet Force Gemini) were found during the initial datamine for the game once it released.
2. Initial stats for a fighter codnamed Brave painted a picture of a fighter with a sliding turn and a floaty jump; two traits Banjo is known for in the two games.
3. Lootcrate was at one point offering a Banjo-Kazooie item in their upcoming box and even tweeted out about Banjo-Kazooie in Smash Bros. Suddenly, the tweet was yanked down very quickly and the Banjo item vanished from the box, leaving customers bewildered and confused.

Spoiler: Said deleted tweet

View attachment 224318

4. First4Figures, the company known for making high end Banjo-Kazooie and Conker statues has been invited personally by Rare themselves to attend E3 this year.
5. Phil Spencer has been very open up until now about wanting Banjo in Smash

There was also a recent story from Discord about how paperwork for Banjo amiibo were seen for allocating space in a warehouse; but without physical evidence I'm not adding that to the list.

As I said though, ALL of these points could easily be circumstantial or mere coincidence: Some say the Rare spirits are due to Nintendo being confused over if they owned the rights, Brave could easily be another character, Lootcrate maybe just ran into a problem and had to ditch the Banjo item, and First4 may just be invited to show off a Battletoads or Sea of Thieves statue

However, you have to admit, circumstantial evidence is better than NO evidence. Banjo actually has more going for him than Steve does right now. Steve's biggest evidence is striking AGAINST him, while Banjo has a set of circumstances and events that seem to be pointing in his favor

Only E3 will tell for sure

I get the feeling this is gonna end up in a YouTube video

 

[Evil Trapezium]

1. We have not heard Confirmation from Sakurai, Nintendo, or anyone involved with this Game that any Character chosen as a Spirit is not eligible for DLC.

That unfortunately goes both ways of the spectrum which means it might happen or it might not happen. Considering that Rayman made a cameo as a trophy in Smash 4 and now a spirit in Ultimate leaves me to believe it'll be the latter. If he was going to be a playable character, it would have happened in Smash 4.

2. These images are based from Source artworks from individual Games (including Rayman’s artwork from Origins/Legends)

Spirits use artwork that best represents how the character looks. If they can't use their original artwork for what ever reason such as Cloud, Pokemon Trainer, Robin, etc. then they use their Smash renders. However Rayman already has a spirit that best represents himself in Ultimate and is a primary spirit for that matter.

3. Sakurai is usually not the kind of person that actually has a character that doesn’t have his aesthetic be coming from another Game, he actually instead Smashify’s his work just like all the other’s. Which is why when Trophies didn’t return in Ultimate and Spirit’s where introduced with the exact artwork from other Games suggests that this is in no way close to being an actual determining factor on what couldn’t be made for DLC, because DLC is a separate workforce of content.

I don't understand this one. Your point doesn't seem very clear.

4. Coming from 3., Base and DLC Work is a totally separate content division production line. Here’s an example, back in Smash 4 Sakurai made 2-Trophies that would ultimately be turned into Fighter’s who would be Mewtwo and Lucas, with that very example it’s now been established that Sakurai is not always true to keeping content the same in both divisions, especially when you have Nintendo making the choices for DLC with Collaborations like Microsoft, Ubisoft, Bethesda, Capcom, Namco, SEGA, Konami, Square Enix, Koei-Tecmo, etc. while Sakurai is making the choices for what Characters will be in which Fighter’s Pass.

I would agree with this if spirits were purely aesthetic like trophies but considering that spirits function like power ups and the fact that Rayman's spirit is part of the world of light means spirits play an important role.

5. Nintendo is picking the DLC this time around and the DLC content is selected by collaboration’s from other developers to bring in New Fans for Ultimate. With how DLC has been presented and worked around with Joker/Persona, this reeks of No Nintendo Character additions but rather Popular collaborations with major 3rd-Party Companies, here’s an Example between Banjo-Kazooie and Steve who has more Content, Creativity, History, Fanbase & Smashfiying for DLC?
- Content: When a Character is announced, there needs to be Content that comes with hence the Joker Pack with 11-Music Tracks, an Interactive Stage like Momentos, Mii Costumes that are broadened with Fan Favorite, Imaginative side Characters like the Persona Mii Costumes = Banjo-Kazooie Costumes with like Mumbo Jumbo, Tooty, Bottles, Gruntilda and even a Taj Costume, than you can add other Microsoft/Rare Costumes like Conker and Minecraft Steve or Creeper Costume. (Which is exactly the downfall of Minecraft Representation since (despite what Minecraft fans try to say) Minecraft REALLY doesn’t have that much Content to provide for people to get hooked on Minecraft).
- Creativity: As much as Steve fans try to Stretch SO Hard on how creative Steve is, the Truth of the matter is that Minecraft does NOT translate well into another game, hence Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Steve Fans will Defend that since they know everything but in actuality and reality is that when you actually look at all the Stages and Characters only 1-Character/Stage was able to have a transition from its Origin into Smash Bros and that is Mr. Game & Watch since it’s whole thing is about 2D Graphics and a Stage that is just a portable game, but the real thing about (Mr.) Game & Watch is that the transition came with an abundance of Changes from its source material and that Nintendo owns those licenses to actually let Sakurai altar the essence of the Game & Watch Games, Minecraft on the other hand is a Western (European and American) product that requires way more hands on approach than Banjo-Kazooie is since Banjo-Kazooie Design of the Games is so simplistic that all you need is a cup of coffee with creators and it’ll be just a snap of a finger to get Super Smash Bros Ultimate X Banjo-Kazooie Creativity in the Games Roster and Content.
- History: History is the Key thing into Getting Popular Characters and Franchises represented and what Super Smash Bros is at Heart, sure you can say that Cloud Strife and Joker Never appeared in the Nintendo Consoles but where PlayStation created characters, however the loophole involved with their inclusion is that Cloud’s series Final Fantasy and Joker’s series SMT actually originated from the Famicom/NES consoles back in ‘87 Representing the classic era of Nintendo Video Games. Which is exactly what Banjo-Kazooie has over Steve since Minecraft came 16-Years way too late to be a Nintendo character, Hell he's as much of a Microsoft Character as he would be to Banjo-Kazooie which they where Born into Nintendo with Diddy Kong Racing than Banjo-Kazooie 8-Months apart on N64. Yes, there’s also Bayonetta who was atleast 5-Years into her birth than brought in as a Playable Fighter in Smash 4, however that character was becoming more Nintendo now since her inclusion in Smash 4 and remained a Nintendo Character since which is what Banjo has over Steve since Minecraft is everywhere but Banjo is only Nintendo and Xbox hence they’re a easy choice for Sakurai to bring in.
- Fanbase: Now in terms of what the Massive Fandom for Minecraft and Banjo-Kazooie is like, the more majority of the Massive Fandom goes to Minecraft since there are a whopping 100 million fans into Minecraft. However there are 2-problems with Minecraft Getting Representation, 1. Despite what Steve Fans have claimed the more Popular character that is more of the Star than Steve is The Creeper since it is the Major Mascot of the Game and represents the Game as a whole for its (as you would imagine) more Iconic than Steve or any Minecraft designed character, 2. More Minecraft Fans have made the case that Steve isn’t that talked about as is Banjo and Kazooie is in Majority Requests by Smash Bros Fans and as Banjo-Kazooie Fans equally. Which is why Fandom is Important but only if it’s absolutely Universal Majority which is what Banjo has over Steve right now Exclusively to Super Smash Bros Ultimate. Plus Joker has the smallest amount of Fans in Ultimate when his Series Sold 9 Million Copies over a Minecraft Which has sold 180-Million Copies, if anything that should have been proven to been Steve as the First DLC Fighter.
- Smashfiying: Now this is the most important one amongst the 5, how a character fits into being a Super Smash Bros Character. This is something that was tested with Characters like PAC-MAN, Mega Man, Sonic The Hedgehog, Solid Snake, Cloud Strife, Bayonetta, Ryu, Ken Masters, The Belmont’s, Joker, Ridley, King K. Rool, Ganondorf, Bowser, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B, Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, The Mii’s, just about all of these characters prior to the Original 8-12 in the First Smash Bros that was adapted for their inclusions by altering their essential appearances. Between Banjo-Kazooie and Steve the more Simplest to pick is Banjo while Steve is without even a thought the most difficult to actually adapt to another game like and including Super Smash Bros. Cause with Steve you would need the Minecraft Team to actually need to altar Steve’s essence but at the same time betray the Meaning of the Characterization of the Rep, but with Banjo you basically already have material that actually fits into Super Smash Bros that Easily and you breath the Character to life in Super Smash Bros.
Rayman would no doubt fit all 5 of the criteria’s needed to be in because you have a Hint if the Content which is His (Rayman’s) own Spirit that you can easily have it unaltered and bring his own Fighter Spirit simply by calling it “Rayman (Fighter Spirit)” and Add Rayman Characters with the Rayman Pack like Glowbox, Barbara, Rabbids, Teensies, etc with the Spirit’s, Mii Costume’s and a Rayman Music from all Rayman Games, you have a lot of Creativity for the Character and Stage with the Creative use in Super Smash Bros Ultimate since Rayman and the World he comes from is a Love Letter to Smash Bros Fans and Rayman Fans, There is History with Rayman and Nintendo dating back not just Rayman 2 in N64 but behind the scenes history of the Very First Rayman Game Originally supposed to be in the First Nintendo Disc made Rayman Game but instead ended up in Playstation 1 only for the sequel to go on the N64, The Fanbase is Still demanding for Rayman to be added into the Roster of Legends and Like I said before Rayman is a Destined Super Smash Bros Character in the making.

No I'm very much in the park that characters must have had history with Nintendo or one game on a Nintendo console to join Smash Bros. Sakurai did say something on the lines of that. That's why I don't believe Master Chief has any chance to be in Smash Ultimate. Persona Q2 had Joker in it so Joker has already made an appearance on a Nintendo console before his reveal in Ultimate.

Back on topic, I don't doubt that Rayman fits any of those criterias and I don't think anyone else is doubting it either. Rayman has had a lot of history on Nintendo consoles. However the major problem Rayman faces is that he very much unknown in Japan. I couldn't find anything about Rayman's other games with how well they did but here's an article from 2013 about how well Rayman Legends sold in Japan: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/10/rayman_legends_lands_with_a_thud_at_japanese_retail
Also this article from Source Gaming shows the reaction from the Japanese smash fanbase to Artsyomni's fake leak. Notice how many people claimed they had no idea who Rayman is?
https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/02/16/japanese-reaction-to-fake-rayman-leak/

Finally, Sakurai has said in the past that he rejects characters from being playable if they have little to no presence in either Japan or overseas such as Ayumi Tachibana or Takumaru starting from Melee so Rayman is most likely as unknown to Japan as Dragon Quest is mostly unknown to us.

 

[TheAnvil]

All we have is second-hand knowledge and "Take my word for it"'s from insiders. The biggest 'evidence' is actually pointing against Steve's chances here.

I want to just point out that it's not even that.

The only people deemed insiders at large who specifically backed Steve were Xenother and Hitagi. Xenother isn't even a leaker, and Hitagi's information was completely unreliable the second he said Katalina was in.

We're left with Vergeben saying that what Hitagi believed lead to Steve doesn't make sense and he believes MC content in some form was agreed upon during talks with Microsoft. Which could mean almost anything, and doesn't even pertain to Steve. MC content could come in dozens of forms that doesn't even include him.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No I'm very much in the park that characters must have had history with Nintendo or one game on a Nintendo console to join Smash Bros. Sakurai did say something on the lines of that. That's why I don't believe Master Chief has any chance to be in Smash Ultimate. Persona Q2 had Joker in it so Joker has already made an appearance on a Nintendo console before his reveal in Ultimate.

What Sakurai said is "it'd be a courtesy". That was a very old mistranslation by SourceGaming. The only evidence we have that a Nintendo appearance is required is solely a pattern that all 3rd parties happened to have Nintendo appearances. Otherwise, it's pretty bunk with no real support towards it as a legitimate thing. What we do know is the creator of Dante does feel DMC should have a full Nintendo game first. So some companies easily can feel the opposite of what Sakurai feels too. Nintendo is also more in control of the DLC.

Also, Master Chief's costume on Minecraft's Halo Mash-Up Pack is a simple cameo, not unlike some of Cloud's in Kingdom Hearts. That's a Nintendo appearance in the end, so him not getting in has nothing to do with some fanrule. There's going to be other reasons that actually make sense. Could be an inability to make him feel right with his weapons, could be Nintendo never putting him up as an option to Sakurai, could be Microsoft saying no since it's one of their 1st party IP's.

 

[Deleted member]

So about two pages ago I tried to do a writeup on all of the evidence for both Steve and Banjo. I want to try and do a more complete version here
I'm not interested in reasons as to WHY Steve or Banjo deserve to be in Smash here, I'm looking purely at evidence and facts. Ergo I'm not going to be talking about Google Theory

Putting everything in spoiler tags because otherwise this would be a wall of words and I want to make this easy to read and digest

Spoiler: Evidence for Steve

Evidence for Steve

There has been a lot of "He said, she said" regarding Steve, but what's peculiar is that no one can keep their story straight and facts vary depending on who you ask. Vergeben, the dude we love to hate, had gotten the base roster for Smash Bros. correct and accurate right up to the release; but Minecraft has been the one thing that's haunted him and the one thing he's consistently blown.

At one point he said a source said Steve was playable in an early build, but that turned out to be false. At one point he claimed Enderdragon would be a boss, but that ended up being Rathalos' files reading as "Endragon" there was also a theory/joke that his source confused the Cubivore Pig spirit for the Minecraft pig.

And that's just Vergeben, other people who've claimed Minecraft is in Smash have had conflicting claims. This post from /v/ does a good job summarizing it

Spoiler: Insider confusion summarized

View attachment 224312

Presently, Vergeben has recently stated that he still believes Minecraft is coming to Smash; but that he's not necessarily backing Steve as playable and that the claim that he WAS playable in an early build was probably false

Spoiler: Verg's latest claim

View attachment 224315

Meanwhile, two of Mojang's own employees have openly talked about Steve in Smash. Aubrery Norris the community manager, has been very upfront over how she believes Steve would be a bad choice to be a playable Minecraft rep. TheRaddestBro is a staff member on Minecraft's official Discord who openly said "Steve is not in Smash", but suddenly walked that back the next day when his response went viral.

Spoiler: RaddestBro on damage control?

View attachment 224314

People were quick to dimiss RaddestBro when it was discovered he was a very new employee of the company at the time so "He wouldn't know". Which is fair, but Aubrey Norris is one people flip-flop on: Some say that the fact that she's speaking about it openly and being very frank about how she thinks Steve is a bad pick and that she's rather high up on the company means that Steve is deconfirmed, while others say that her personal opinions don't matter and that her word doesn't count and that she wouldn't know either. Another thing to note is, she is VERY well aware of how much this is currently a hot-button conversation within the Smash community

Spoiler: Aubrey knows what we're arguing about

View attachment 224316

Again, I'm looking at this purely from a facts and logic perspective, and what I see is someone very affluent within Mojang bad-mouthing their own mascots chances of being in Smash. If Steve were hypothetically in Smash, it seems to me that someone higher up on the company would have requested her to take the tweets down. Some argue that having her take the tweets down would make it look too suspicious... but a similar thing happened on Banjo's side which I'll get to.

At the end of the day... there's actually not a lot going for Steve. All we have is second-hand knowledge and "Take my word for it"'s from insiders. The biggest 'evidence' is actually pointing against Steve's chances here.

Now, let's look at Banjo

Spoiler: Evidence for Banjo

Evidence for Banjo

Banjo also has a lot of "He said, she said" going on, but this seems to be a bit more straight-forward. No debating if one character is going to be a boss or a spirit, it's either they're in or they're not.

Indiegamerchick has heavily leaned on Banjo being in, along with the N64 Classic and/or Rare Replay coming to the Switch since about last year; but none of these have managed to materialize just yet. Despite this, she is a credible insider: Her claim to fame is that she knew ahead of time who was going to be taking Mr. Iwata's place temporarily after his passing, but she's also gotten:

The Metroid 2 Remake that happened on 3DS
Simon and Richter
SNES classic and Star Fox 2 finally being finished

Here's what she had to say about Microsoft and Nintendo:

Spoiler: IDC on Microsoft, Rare, and Nintendo

View attachment 224317

Jez Corden is a Senior Editor at Windows Central and a Microsoft insider. He runs a podcast with Rand Al Thor called "The Xbox Two" where they discussed Banjo being in from a reliable source back in December ( Thanks BZocky for bringing this to my attention)

But insiders are just people asking us to trust them, do we have any evidence or signs that Banjo is coming? Actually, we do! A disclaimer here is that ALL of these points can easily be circumstantial evidence, but it's worth looking into all the same.

1. The big one: Coding for Rareware spirits (Specifically Blast Corps and Jet Force Gemini) were found during the initial datamine for the game once it released.
2. Initial stats for a fighter codnamed Brave painted a picture of a fighter with a sliding turn and a floaty jump; two traits Banjo is known for in the two games.
3. Lootcrate was at one point offering a Banjo-Kazooie item in their upcoming box and even tweeted out about Banjo-Kazooie in Smash Bros. Suddenly, the tweet was yanked down very quickly and the Banjo item vanished from the box, leaving customers bewildered and confused.

Spoiler: Said deleted tweet

View attachment 224318

4. First4Figures, the company known for making high end Banjo-Kazooie and Conker statues has been invited personally by Rare themselves to attend E3 this year.
5. Phil Spencer has been very open up until now about wanting Banjo in Smash

There was also a recent story from Discord about how paperwork for Banjo amiibo were seen for allocating space in a warehouse; but without physical evidence I'm not adding that to the list.

As I said though, ALL of these points could easily be circumstantial or mere coincidence: Some say the Rare spirits are due to Nintendo being confused over if they owned the rights, Brave could easily be another character, Lootcrate maybe just ran into a problem and had to ditch the Banjo item, First4 may just be invited to show off a Battletoads or Sea of Thieves statue, and Phil Spencer saying he wants Banjo in Smash could have just been a PR answer (He actually addressed this claim in an interview, but the wording is so vague that it could be taken either way)

Spoiler: Phil on his "PR answer"

View attachment 224330

However, you have to admit, circumstantial evidence is better than NO evidence. Banjo actually has more going for him than Steve does right now. Steve's biggest evidence is striking AGAINST him, while Banjo has a set of circumstances and events that seem to be pointing in his favor

Only E3 will tell for sure

Just wanted to set the record straight real quick on the Lootcrate point, the Banjo-Kazooie item was delayed due to a manufacturing error, only to be shipped later on. I actually even have it, since I subscribed to Lootcrate that month specifically for it.

Spoiler

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Just wanted to set the record straight real quick on the Lootcrate point, the Banjo-Kazooie item was delayed due to a manufacturing error, only to be shipped later on. I actually even have it, since I subscribed to Lootcrate that month specifically for it.

Spoiler

View attachment 224340
View attachment 224341

That came out last year though. The box even says 2018, what happened with Lootcrate this time was this year

 

[Deleted member]

That came out last year though. The box even says 2018, what happened with Lootcrate this time was this year

Actually didn't even know there was a Banjo item planned for a crate this year, so I guess I'm just super out of the loop. It is kinda strange that they would pull it in that case.

 

[GenoFlash]

Actually didn't even know there was a Banjo item planned for a crate this year, so I guess I'm just super out of the loop. It is kinda strange that they would pull it in that case.

Yeah a little while back there was going to be Banjo merch in Lootcrate and then it got pulled. Coincidentally or not Lootcrate also asked if anyone wanted to see Banjo in Smash.

 

[NintenRob]

So I got question, if Banjo and Kazooie were to have an episode of Death Battle, who should his opponent be? It'd have to be another duo.


Also would they screw it up as badly as the most recent one?

 

[BZocky]

So I got question, if Banjo and Kazooie were to have an episode of Death Battle, who should his opponent be? It'd have to be another duo.


Also would they screw it up as badly as the most recent one?

Ratchet and Clank perhaps?
(also still salty they did my boy Wario like that)

 

[AngrySun88]

Here's a question that I wanted to ask.

We know that Phil Spencer is very keen on having Banjo in Smash. Has anyone else from Microsoft or Rare expressed similar statements or negative statements regarding Banjo in Smash?

On that same token, has anyone from Microsoft or Mojang said that they would like Steve in? The only Microsoft person I recall talking about Steve was Aubrey Norris and she did not have kind things to say about him.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

So I got question, if Banjo and Kazooie were to have an episode of Death Battle, who should his opponent be? It'd have to be another duo.


Also would they screw it up as badly as the most recent one?

They should just make it Steve to add more fuel to the fire.

Ratchet and Clank perhaps?
(also still salty they did my boy Wario like that)

Ratchet & Clank's rival were always seen as Jak & Daxter since they are both 1st Party PlayStation mascots from the PS2 era, Plus Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale even went along with that rivalry.

 

[BZocky]

Ratchet & Clank's rival were always seen as Jak & Daxter since they are both 1st Party PlayStation mascots from the PS2 era, Plus Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale even went along with that rivalry.

Doesn't mean they can't be B&K's rivals in Death Battle. Last one was Wario and Dedede who had little to no in game connections besides some similar abilities

 

[Mr. Stagg]

Doesn't mean they can't be B&K's rivals in Death Battle. Last one was Wario and Dedede who had little to no in game connections besides some similar abilities

Death Battle matchups always had a consistent theme. Wario and Dedede were the occasional hero/ mostly villains for Kirby and Mario. Ben 10 and Green Lantern are intergalactic peacekeepers who thrive and fight with creativity.

I see Yooka-laylee as the rivals for Banjo-kazooie. Maybe DK and diddy since they usually adventure together. Maybe we can have a 4 way slugger between Ratchet & Clank vs Jak & Daxter vs Banjo-kazooie vs Yooka-laylee. Finally we can have Toejam and Earl as the commentators for the fight.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Here's a question that I wanted to ask.

We know that Phil Spencer is very keen on having Banjo in Smash. Has anyone else from Microsoft or Rare expressed similar statements or negative statements regarding Banjo in Smash?

On that same token, has anyone from Microsoft or Mojang said that they would like Steve in? The only Microsoft person I recall talking about Steve was Aubrey Norris and she did not have kind things to say about him.

The only other comment that's been made about Banjo being in Smash from someone else within Microsoft was that time the Rare twitter responded with "If he was, that wouldn't be for us to announce"

And as far as I know, no one else inside Microsoft other than Aubrey has said anything regarding Steve in Smash

So, we have the big man himself saying he'd like Banjo in Smash, and Rare saying the announcement would be on Nintendo's terms

And we have the Community Manager for Minecraft saying Steve would be a bad pick.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Gregg's still at Rare right? He'd be under NDA.



It's not a matter of silence, it's that Steve, Master Chief and even Cuphead have all had people involved in their current franchises outright state that their characters aren't in. The silence around Banjo, especially in comparison to Phil Spencer tweeting twice about how he'd like to see Banjo in Smash For, is relevant to this discussion by how it stands out in comparison to other probable Microsoft IPs (in the sense that no one here is arguing for Blinx the Cat).

To add to GenoFlash's post, if Banjo Kazooie wasn't in Smash, they'd have no reason to be silent about it. They have talked about Banjo Kazooie's chances of being in Smash Ultimate before with this tweet.

If that were ever to happen it wouldn't be for us to announce!

— Rare Ltd. (@RareLtd) June 29, 2018

Doesn't matter what other characters have gotten or not, the silence surrounding Banjo Kazooie in Smash still is not evidence for anything. We just cannot use silence as a evidence in a situation like this related to video games no matter how you spin it. We can't operate with silence as a proof. There are other reasons they may not be talking about it. Maybe something is planned with Banjo Kazooie not Smash related and their on a harder lockdown from Microsoft on the topic. Maybe they've been specifically told not to tweet more as that gets the hopes of fans up and they aren't happening in Smash Ultimate. Maybe Frank O' Connor felt like being particularly vocal about Master Chief not being in Smash (He's the one with the most weight, Cuphead doesn't even really fall into the spotlight like the other three Microsoft hopefuls and Steve has only taken a hit from Aubrey, who holds a much less important position than Frank O' Connor). Maybe no one on the Microsoft side of things has cared enough to take a stance on this issue.

Maybe it means something is happening in Smash. But even then, silence meant nothing more than a Spirit for Shantae in a case where it meant something. So maybe, we're getting Banjo Kazooie. As a spirit. Or as a Mii costume. Or maybe they actually are playable.

My point being, you have to do a lot of gymnastics to get to Banjo Kazooie as playable from silence, and at the end of the day, it's just a neutral fact that means nothing one way or the other. No reason to be silent? We're talking about the IP of a major corporation, there's so much that might be influencing the current state of no information even in comparison to others. And I only consider Master Chief's deconfirm to be of real merit given who it's coming from. Silence is never something we as a community should use. It gets brought up all the damn time and is always a bad way to try to justify things. It's flimsy and completely malleable to the narrative the individual wants to tell because of the fact it precisely means nothing. Even with other things afoot, that still doesn't speak anything about character's chances on any real level.

I can't wait to rip apart mii fighters dressed as Steve while playing as the Bear

I get this a joke and people are frustrated with the Steve talk around here. But this is the sort of little jab that comes off as ****ty to be completely honest. We don't need that sort of thing in here.

 

[GenoFlash]

Doesn't matter what other characters have gotten or not, the silence surrounding Banjo Kazooie in Smash still is not evidence for anything. We just cannot use silence as a evidence in a situation like this related to video games no matter how you spin it. We can't operate with silence as a proof. There are other reasons they may not be talking about it. Maybe something is planned with Banjo Kazooie not Smash related and their on a harder lockdown from Microsoft on the topic. Maybe they've been specifically told not to tweet more as that gets the hopes of fans up and they aren't happening in Smash Ultimate. Maybe Frank O' Connor felt like being particularly vocal about Master Chief not being in Smash (He's the one with the most weight, Cuphead doesn't even really fall into the spotlight like the other three Microsoft hopefuls and Steve has only taken a hit from Aubrey, who holds a much less important position than Frank O' Connor). Maybe no one on the Microsoft side of things has cared enough to take a stance on this issue.

Maybe it means something is happening in Smash. But even then, silence meant nothing more than a Spirit for Shantae in a case where it meant something. So maybe, we're getting Banjo Kazooie. As a spirit. Or as a Mii costume. Or maybe they actually are playable.

My point being, you have to do a lot of gymnastics to get to Banjo Kazooie as playable from silence, and at the end of the day, it's just a neutral fact that means nothing one way or the other. No reason to be silent? We're talking about the IP of a major corporation, there's so much that might be influencing the current state of no information even in comparison to others. And I only consider Master Chief's deconfirm to be of real merit given who it's coming from. Silence is never something we as a community should use. It gets brought up all the damn time and is always a bad way to try to justify things. It's flimsy and completely malleable to the narrative the individual wants to tell because of the fact it precisely means nothing. Even with other things afoot, that still doesn't speak anything about character's chances on any real level.



I get this a joke and people are frustrated with the Steve talk around here. But this is the sort of little jab that comes off as ****ty to be completely honest. We don't need that sort of thing in here.

*shrug*

You're welcome to take it however you please. Minecraft has had its community manager laugh at the prospect of Steve getting in. Halo had Frank O' Connor outright state Master Chief wasn't going to be in. That seems conclusive enough to me that I feel confident saying Steve and Chief won't be playable.

Anyway, you're missing the point. It's not just "oh they're not talking about Banjo so he's in". It's that lack of attention given to a character who last time was begged for enough that Phil Spencer had to respond to that fan demand twice, on top of the deconfirmations of Steve and Chief and the Loot Crate debacle. It's enough for me to maybe consider Banjo's inclusion and then idly speculate about it on a forum.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Silence is pretty much a case of being neutral. They aren't saying anything. There's literally "nothing" there.

I also can't take Aubrey seriously at all. She can dislike the idea all she wants. Doesn't mean she knows jack-all of what's happening. She wouldn't be able to say anything about him being in or not either way, so all it shows is... she dislikes the idea. And she's free to do so. One annoying thing about this is you'd think the company would not allow people to bash their own characters. That's doing a poor job in making people interesting in their games. There's a difference between constructive criticism and bashing, of course. But hers isn't constructive, that's for sure. Microsoft is weird on that, I guess.

 

[SneakyLink]

Was thinking... if Banjo were to be revealed at E3, would you want him shown at:
A. The very first thing?
B. Very End?
C. Other?

 

[CannonStreak]

Was thinking... if Banjo were to be revealed at E3, would you want him shown at:
A. The very first thing?
B. Very End?
C. Other?

I would say the middle of the Direct somewhere.

 

[BZocky]

Was thinking... if Banjo were to be revealed at E3, would you want him shown at:
A. The very first thing?
B. Very End?
C. Other?

the end, following the reveal of Rare Replay+