Balloon Blast Matchup Thread #16 (Rediscussion) - Wario

Zinoto

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#1

Matchup Ratio: ???

Stages to Utilize Against Wario:

Neutrals - ???
Counterpicks - ???
Bans - ???


For more intricate help with this Matchup, please be sure to read the thread, and feel free to ask any questions not answered in it.

[Collapse="Original Post for Posterity"]

Wario isn't such a bad guy, he's just misunderstood...
And smells...And steals...And cheats...
Oh nevermind, he really is just a horrible person.
But does this make him an equally horrible Matchup?


It is important that you read this! Every first post by a user in a Matchup Thread is encouraged to have at least a couple of sentences of information, alongside a ratio. Posts may not be considered for ratio and summary solidifying without these from the poster at some point in the thread, and keeping them towards the beginning helps keep discussion tidy. You have two weeks to share information that you feel is helpful in the Matchup, as well as debate with others. Compelling arguments are a must people, I expect any joking and trolls to be at a minimum.

Ideas for discussion...

-Both Characters Ground/Air Game Against Each Other-
-Moves To Avoid And How To Avoid Them-
-Diddy's Moves To Utilize In The Matchup-
-Personal Strategies To Help With The Matchup-
-Stage Discussion For Starters, Counterpicks, And Bans-


Note: This Matchup has been discussed in the past. If you wish to pull content from previous discussions that are still relevant in the current Metagame, then feel free to do so. This includes posts that are both yours and not yours.[/Collapse]

BBR Ratio: 0
Our Ratio: ???

This thread will be posted in the :wario: boards as well.
 

Luigi player

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#4
Diddy can beat Wario. Only thing Wario could make it even is if he get's clutch farts (which can happen, but shouldn't happen often).

So it's between even and a weak +1 for Diddy imo.

Wario is good in the air, but Diddys ground speed is better and difficult for Wario to deal with.
 

Player-1

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#7
I play Reflex at just about every single tournament in GA/AL (and even whobo)

I played Micaelis at just about every tournament too when he was still playing, definitely have more MU experience than you
 

SaveMeJebus

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#8
I play Reflex at just about every single tournament in GA/AL (and even whobo)

I played Micaelis at just about every tournament too when he was still playing, definitely have more MU experience than you
I used to play Fox16 a lot and even though not many people may know him, he was very good at the MU. I also used to mm Tyrant's Wario (could easily be top 3) all the time
 

Player-1

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#9
looooololololol

o gawd that post. Key words are 'used to' and I still guarantee you that I've played reflex's wario more than you've played both of those warios combined
 

SaveMeJebus

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#10
looooololololol

o gawd that post. Key words are 'used to' and I still guarantee you that I've played reflex's wario more than you've played both of those warios combined
You play some aggressive Warios. There's really no excuse for you losing as much as you do unless you don't know the mu as well as you think you do
 

GOofyGV

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#16
you guys better give some feedback about the wario mu instead of this lol

ok Wario is kinda weird to me honestly.
I like the mu and I do beat every wario I play.
the thing with wario is they have a good item game just like we have and they can pick up banana's pretty easy with his great arials and air speed.
It's pretty hard for him to uproach us if we do the ADHD setup because his ground uproach is kinda meh.
but Wario is hard because he can control item's very well.

I don't really know a number honestly I see it as +1 fr myself but I can see a -1 as well.
 

Vega4

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#17
I think it's -1 for us.
If Wario play defensive and air camp us, It's so f**** hard to put damage on him (sometimes it's like fair it's the only option, but they can bait a bad spaced fair and put a fart on us, so even fair is not completely safe,...), and that way they also have charged farts...
 

Zinoto

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#19
I don't think it necessarily matters who has the most experience; it's a discussion not an autocracy.

Here's my writeup for :wario: from my iPod.

:diddy:-:wario:

(45-55) -1 :wario:Advantage

Stages - :battlefieldb::smashville::yoshisb:
Bans - :brinstar::frigate:

  • Do not chase this ******* in the air.
  • Camp him and wall him out.
  • Use aerials to knock him away if he tries to control the air around you.
  • Glide toss a banana down while moving backwards, if he tries to approach with dair.
  • Punish his landings.
  • Side b early in recovery or else he will fart you.
  • Look for spot dodge/air dodge habits to punish.
  • Timed side b will eat through his spot dodge.
  • Grab release --> spike over a ledge.
  • Fart will kill at 70% and takes 55 seconds to charge up.
  • Wario lives for a very long time, so prepare for a long match.
  • MFK will beat bite with decent spacing.
  • We can infinite :wario: in a similar fashion to how we infinite :lucario:.
 

LOE1

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#20
I don't think it necessarily matters who has the most experience; it's a discussion not an autocracy.

Here's my writeup for :wario: from my iPod.

:diddy:-:wario:

(45-55) -1 :wario:Advantage

agree with this

Stages - :battlefieldb::smashville::yoshisb:

why is fd not here lol. not too sure about yoshi's, but theseare pretty neutral for everyone

Bans - :brinstar::frigate:

agree and agree

  • Do not chase this ******* in the air.

    wario be all air, stick to ur ground antics
  • Camp him and wall him out.

    you can try to camp us, but we can do the same to you ya know
  • Use aerials to knock him away if he tries to control the air around you.

    careful with them aerials....
  • Glide toss a banana down while moving backwards, if he tries to approach with dair.

    yea, that works, but most wario's would catch on and mix it up. dont rely on it every time
  • Punish his landings.

    correct, but dont chase us too much
  • Side b early in recovery or else he will fart you.

    you gotta recover smart alright, or you will get wafted
  • Look for spot dodge/air dodge habits to punish.

    yup
  • Timed side b will eat through his spot dodge.

    yo, **** side b
  • Grab release --> spike over a ledge.

    you see, it can work, butt wario can sdi the spike back on the stage. fair would be a better option
  • Fart will kill at 70% and takes 55 seconds to charge up.

    fart can kill you at like 55% lol. depends on you much its charged.
  • Wario lives for a very long time, so prepare for a long match.

    good luck killing us
  • MFK will beat bite with decent spacing.

    spacies
  • We can infinite :wario: in a similar fashion to how we infinite :lucario:.

    this hasnt happened to me yet. im scared whats gonna happen...
answers in bold

damn, this is gonna be one long post isnt it?

:wario:
 

Player-1

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#21
you can air release wario to side-b btw, they can get out before you footstool him if they know how to, but it's worth a shot trying it.

Also, if they're trying to SDI back on stage I've found it pretty good to just regrab them, you'll just have to guess if they're trying to SDI back on stage in which case you can regrab or if they realize they're just going to keep getting regrabbed they'll stop SDIing towards the stage and then you can spike them.
 

xzx

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#24
It's even. Wario has some nifty tools like bite, bike, tires and his air game. Diddy Kong is better on the ground and his bananas can punish Wario hard when Wario lands. Both can kill and it really depends on who is playing smarter (well, kinda). I can write much more about this but it's a combat about smartness and punishing. An even MU.
 

TheReflexWonder

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#25
I think it's -slightly- in favor of Wario, but it's close enough for me to want to call it 0.

Wario isn't really allowed to be aggressive in this matchup. I take my sweet time against Player-1, because there's too much at risk if you're not always in-and-out about your offense.
 

DMG

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#26
Also, if they're trying to SDI back on stage I've found it pretty good to just regrab them, you'll just have to guess if they're trying to SDI back on stage in which case you can regrab or if they realize they're just going to keep getting regrabbed they'll stop SDIing towards the stage and then you can spike them.

????

What in the world are you talking about? Diddy can't regrab Wario at the edge over and over: if you could, you would opt to do that for free damage all the time. Inputting SDI while you are air released does not impact your trajectory. You can do SDI inputs and also try to airdodge/steer somewhere.

There's also a lot of time for Wario to realize that you're jumping up/out to spike him, and just delay stuff until then. Point being, regrab whashuawhat?
 

Luigi player

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#27
Well I don't think it's that easy to react to it and you should probably assume Diddy goes for the spike, because if you don't you might be dead depending on your %.

If you SDI to the stage you probably would DI in that direction too, but Wario pulling out a fair isn't really unlikely since he'll most likely slam the cstick in fair-direction. Maybe he could even fart Diddys grab if he tries going for something janky...

Definitely something risky and not really worth it, but it could if you're lucky I guess.
 

Player-1

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#28
I'm not saying its guaranteed, but they'll be SDIing toward the stage yes? The way most players SDI in a direction is by holding/tapping control stick in the direction they want to be in yes? Wario will be DIing into diddy and we'll be able to regrab a lot of the time

:phone:
 

DMG

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#29
But the grab is not guaranteed. Me slamming towards the stage + airdodge inputs leaves no room for Diddy to grab me, and covers the Dair spike. It also semi covers the Fair threat except you would probably prefer diagonal up instead of straight towards the stage.

Going for the regrab is probably a waste of time. Get free damage that isn't based off Wario goofing: if you have him over the edge why not just whack him and get it over?

Just spike or Dair or be a boss and Nair.
 

Player-1

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#30
Yes that is what I just said the grab isn't guaranteed...it's just a good thing to that seems to be working on good wario mains at this point in time in the metagame that I was just letting diddy players know that they could try out, not saying that it's not adaptable to either. Just saying that I've regrabbed a good amount of good warios before like micaelis when he was still playing, reflex, jnig and some other warios who try to SDI into the stage

:phone:
 

DMG

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#31
When you regrab them, are the still dangling over the edge? If that's not the case/they airdodge further into the stage, I'd say it's not worth it


Just smack Wario instead it's better most of the time
 

Player-1

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#32
yes they are still dangling. If they're at mid-high percents I'll typically dair them and see if they SDI into the stage or not and if they do then I'd probably go for it the next time since they'll probably be trying to SDI into the stage again. At lower percents I'll typically just side-b grab them and see if they know how to get out of the footstool or now and if they do then I'll just go for a free 15% damage with attack out of side-b (if fresh) which is a good bit of damage. I mean, if doing the regrab thing just isn't working against a particular wario I just won't do it and will take the free damage, but like I said I've done it a good amount of times to warios so until they adapt to it then I'll keep going for it.
 

Vega4

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#33
I don't think it necessarily matters who has the most experience; it's a discussion not an autocracy.

Here's my writeup for :wario: from my iPod.

:diddy:-:wario:
[*]We can infinite :wario: in a similar fashion to how we infinite :lucario:.
[/LIST]
You mean footstool infinite or the drift one?
 
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#35
Well I don't think it's that easy to react to it and you should probably assume Diddy goes for the spike, because if you don't you might be dead depending on your %.

If you SDI to the stage you probably would DI in that direction too, but Wario pulling out a fair isn't really unlikely since he'll most likely slam the cstick in fair-direction. Maybe he could even fart Diddys grab if he tries going for something janky...

Definitely something risky and not really worth it, but it could if you're lucky I guess.
Sorry, but this is plain wrong.

Assume Diddy's grabbing you on the right edge of FD. You don't know whether he'll dair spike you offstage or fair you towards the right blastzone.

Hold up+left (towards Diddy) on analog stick, press left on C-stick when the aerial connects.

If it was a fair, you DI'ed it into the top right corner (because of the analog stick's input) AND you SDI'd away from the right blastzone.
If it was a dair, you SDI'd up+left-->left-->up+left due to DSSDI mechanics, which is more than enough to get you onstage. Dair has quite a bit of startup so you should be able to react to be able to tech it.
 

Luigi player

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#36
Sorry, but this is plain wrong.

Assume Diddy's grabbing you on the right edge of FD. You don't know whether he'll dair spike you offstage or fair you towards the right blastzone.

Hold up+left (towards Diddy) on analog stick, press left on C-stick when the aerial connects.

If it was a fair, you DI'ed it into the top right corner (because of the analog stick's input) AND you SDI'd away from the right blastzone.
If it was a dair, you SDI'd up+left-->left-->up+left due to DSSDI mechanics, which is more than enough to get you onstage. Dair has quite a bit of startup so you should be able to react to be able to tech it.
Huh? What exactly is plain wrong?
 

Luigi player

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#40
"You should assume that Diddy will spike, otherwise you might get caught off-guard and die."
Eh, well I guess you could hold up to DI a fair and if he doesn't go for it quickly enough start doing your SDI to the stage. Dair would come out on like frame 15 or something so not too easy to react to. >_> Especially if you don't assume Diddy will do it and try to do something else besides DI/SDI.
 
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