Balloon Blast Matchup Thread #15 - Ice Climbers (Rediscussion)

[Player-1]

Sopo can still do a lot of damage, it's definitely not like +5 lol. We're light so they can get a good read and kill us still, especially with out bad air mobility it wouldn't be too out of the question to hit us with a stray fair or something and we can still get gimped and stuff. We get CGed at lower percents. Ice Climbers also have the 2nd longest trip (distance wise, not frame data wise) next to luigi so it can still be difficult to punish them in some situations.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

How can you approach from the air considering pivot grab beats every aerial?

You can also get grabbed out of footstool, btw, since you dip down.

I meant approach with items and I'm pretty sure monkey flip kick is safe on shield if you jump and space it correctly. As for the footstool, you will not dip down if you footstool off their shield which is what they are most likely going to be doing (going for a shield grab punish predicting an aerial). Unless you have super human reaction time, you are going to have to try to predict a fast fall aerial, a regular speed aerial or a footstool.

 

[Player-1]

IC's vertical grab range is pretty awesome, I'm very sure they can grab us out of a shielded footstool

 

[SaveMeJebus]

IC's vertical grab range is pretty awesome, I'm very sure they can grab us out of a shielded footstool

Have you ever seen a shield footstool? You barely even touch the character when you footstool his shield. Besides, most players only go for the shield grab after their shield has been hit and not before the opponent lands onstage.

 

[Player-1]

ya and ICs vertical grab range will grab pretty high above them, I'm not saying it's not a usable option as I've used it before, i'm just saying it's not completely safe

 

[SaveMeJebus]

ya and ICs vertical grab range will grab pretty high above them, I'm not saying it's not a usable option as I've used it before, i'm just saying it's not completely safe

I never said it was completely safe. That's why I said not to get too predictable with it

 

[TheSaintKai]

Shielded footstool can't be grabbed, but honestly if you're coming at me from directly above, I'm going to punish you somehow, not sit in shield. -.-

 

[Roller]

Are most Diddy players this dumb?

 

[Zinoto]

Shielded footstool can't be grabbed, but honestly if you're coming at me from directly above, I'm going to punish you somehow, not sit in shield. -.-

^^^

#Rollerpivotgrabs

And that's the stock.

 

[Player-1]

Shielded footstool can't be grabbed, but honestly if you're coming at me from directly above, I'm going to punish you somehow, not sit in shield. -.-

i've been grabbed out of it before

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Shielded footstool can't be grabbed, but honestly if you're coming at me from directly above, I'm going to punish you somehow, not sit in shield. -.-

With what? We still have F-air and a pivot grab won't grab a failed footstool attempt especially if we are moving away while doing it

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

If you are coming in right above us why wouldn't we just frame trap you with uair?

 

[Luigi player]

The other Climber can grab you out of a Footstool if the Footstooled Climber get's the "being footstooled on animation".
I wouldn't really try doing something like that. o_0

 

[Zinoto]

Jebus is right about not being able to be grabbed from a footstool (on shield/attack), but if they drop the shield you get grabbed, they'll probably juggle you instead of shielding, and if they pivot grab we lose the stock.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

If you are coming in right above us why wouldn't we just frame trap you with uair?

You can, but that's a whole different story since now air dodge becomes a viable option along with a spaced f-air

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

"Right above us" = right ****ing above us, not in front and to the side. You can't footstool us if you are to the side of us when fair becomes applicable. Also, air dodge would lose to uair anyway since we recover from uair faster than you recover from airdodge.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

"Right above us" = right ****ing above us, not in front and to the side. You can't footstool us if you are to the side of us when fair becomes applicable. Also, air dodge would lose to uair anyway since we recover from uair faster than you recover from airdodge.

I'm saying that if they are going to go after you in the air, you will usually have enough time you move away and fast fall f-air. We also have the wave bounced popgun cancel.

If you jumping while we are falling, we will dodge the U-air and you will end up above us. If you are falling with us then yes, we will take damage but I would rather take damage than get grabbed.

 

[TheSaintKai]

i've been grabbed out of it before

No, you've been grabbed out of Saint reading a footstool, dropping shield, and grabbing you from normal footstool.

Because I can't read anything but the stupid **** like when you're gonna footstool me. ;D

Edit: Jebus, if we jump at you and you're airdodging, chances of it being a short hop are 100% and we won't end up above you.

Edit2: Roller teach me your pivot grabbing ways, pl0x.

 

[DeLux]

Played Zinoto today in tournament and played MJG the other day that convinced the MU is between +1 and +2 Diddy's favor.

 

[TheSaintKai]

Played Zinoto today in tournament and played MJG the other day that convinced the MU is between +1 and +2 Diddy's favor.

That just is so hard to believe without you actually explaining why. x)

 

[Luigi player]

Played Zinoto today in tournament and played MJG the other day that convinced the MU is between +1 and +2 Diddy's favor.

Interesting!

I still think the same as before:
- if Diddy knows the MU well enough he should have the advantage normally, because of ICs "randomness" and Nana; losing matches might not be too uncommon, but overall ICs will have too much trouble staying consistent and gimps on Nana etc WILL happen often enough
- if you look at the MU from a "perfect IC" viewpoint, it get's even (not talking about 100 % perfect play, who knows what would happen there...)

I still see soooooooooooooooooooo many people not going after Nana / not knowing how she reacts when she's seperated. I could bite in my *** all the time. People just need to play cpu ICs and play around with her, you'll KNOW how she works after some time. Maybe not always, but almost every time. It's not that hard...

Also staying safe really seems to be a problem for people... (why would you ever airdodge-land right into them if there's a chance they will grab you? just try to jump/upB/whatever on a platform or just somewhere)
Although this might not apply too much for Diddy... (some characters have safe enough upBs to get away if they don't have a jump anymore)

 

[Player-1]

delux beat zinoto, should be convinced it's +1 ICs noob.

 

[Zinoto]

So the general consensus seems to be -1 for . Any last minute thoughts or info?

 

[DeLux]

It looked pretty split between even and -1 for Diddy, with some high level players willing to go as high as +2 for Diddy.