Balance tweaks you'd like to see in the patch

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Honestly, I feel Samus is good enough as she is and Link could actually do with a nerf. Specifically, I'd like to see a nerf for his smash attacks since they're a bit too good in my opinion, preferably a knockback nerf so he doesn't kill as early.

They're okay but could do with a few buffs here and there, especially samus who most people agree is pretty bad

 

[DMX]

I know this won't be a shock given my avatar and main selection, but please leave Sonic alone. I was beyond excited when he was included in Brawl, but he was so incredibly weak that I lost interest trying to make him work for me. His improvements in Wii U/3DS are fine, and not that over-powering at all.

 

[Alex Night]

Honestly, I feel Samus is good enough as she is and Link could actually do with a nerf. Specifically, I'd like to see a nerf for his smash attacks since they're a bit too good in my opinion, preferably a knockback nerf so he doesn't kill as early.

How in the hell are Link's smashes too good? He may be faster than what he was in Brawl, but others are faster than him and he still has that Hylian weight to make his life miserable during combos. Link is able to kill earlier due to his new tipper system which is perfect for a character like Link. Link is just fine as he is; leave his close combat game alone.

 

[AlphaSSB]

BUFFS​

• Fox: Give his moves more K.O. potential and decrease ending/landing lag for him. I would say change his voice actor too, but I'd probably be asking for too much there..
• Falco: Same deal as Fox. Make him stronger and less ending/landing lag. Falco was fantastic in Melee, great in Brawl, but not nearly as good in Smash 4. I also feel that his Fire Bird should be given a bit more range.
• Samus: More strength, speed, and less lag. Samus never really has been one of the good characters. Let's try to change that.
• Dark Pit: Me supporting Dark Pit? Am I drunk? Anyways, I'd say give him a little less lag and more strength. He, somehow, made it into the game as a LITERAL clone of Pit. Might as well make him more different by giving him more power. I'd be fine with giving him reduced speed too, but anything to make him a little bit less of a clone is a buff in my eyes.

NERFS​

• Diddy Kong: Everything.
• Shulk: That damn Monado is rediculous. Without any sort of buffs from the Monado Arts, it's still ridiculous. It has impeccable range and strength. So nerf it by giving it less range and strength. Also, his counter is arguably the best in the game, being able to K.O. me as Fox when I'm at a very low percent from the opposite end of Omega Battlefield. STUPID!
• Yoshi: If you use his Down Air and Up Special, I hate you. Homing eggs are the worst, and that down are is rage-incuding.

 

[exnecross]

So I've been lurking these boards since pre-brawl, but never felt a need to post before now.

I really hope they don't nerf Sheik, but I think they will. She has to work so hard for her kills, pulling off true combos that deal % equal to most characters' uncharged smashes, while looking impressive, is not only skill-intensive but also is only to make up for her extremely poor damage. They already nerfed her once, but people have been fighting an uphill battle to use her in tournies because she is such a fun character to use and can pull off some impressive looking kills.

My hope? Slight nerf to Diddy, and BUFFS to the many characters that could use them.

Most realistic outcome? Some Diddy nerfs, some Sheik nerfs, some Greninja nerfs, nerfs to top-performing characters on For Glory, and some buffs to lesser-performing characters (half of which being odd choices or could have been better implemented).

To add some super unrealistic character-tweak hopes:

Differentiate Lucina more from Marth. Range of sword, dash speed, lag reduction, safer options, increased recovery, whatever! Anything!

Hahahaha, funny right? I know, never going to happen.

 

[Lag Chan]

How in the hell are Link's smashes too good? He may be faster than what he was in Brawl, but others are faster than him and he still has that Hylian weight to make his life miserable during combos. Link is able to kill earlier due to his new tipper system which is perfect for a character like Link. Link is just fine as he is; leave his close combat game alone.

The problem there is that it's an absolute nightmare for characters who can't deal with zoning well. With Samus or Duck Hunt, it's better since they have a fairly weak melee game and they work best at a distance. With Link, he's great at both long and close range, allowing him to overpower a lot of characters since his sword has a lot of range and it's easy for him to get kills. His air attacks and tilts are fine, but his excellent smashes and to a lesser extent his dash attack do a little too much knockback for my liking.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Also, please leave alone, don't touch him. He does not need any nerfs at all, and I wish people would just git gud and quit complaining about him.

I could tell you the same about Diddy and Sheik. Really, the problem with this game isn't that the characters are bad, (well, most of them) it's that the top characters are so much better than everyone else. Sonic included. There is no reason why you should be able to deal 30% with 3 inputs as a character that fast. There is really no reason why the fastest character in the game should be killing that easily. Really, if they just nerfed Spin Dash and left everything else, I wouldn't complain.

There is no need to nerf anyone. Just give buffs to characters who need it.

Do you understand how long that would take? Plus, it doesn't work that way. If you buff Dr. Mario's recovery, I'll be crying in joy, but that still won't change the fact that Sheik ****s on him. Some just can't deal with such overwhelming characters. Diddy will still Hoo-Ha, and people will still die at 90%. It won't make a difference.
Rant over. Now here's some more things:
-Give Mario some buffs in the damage department. Seriously, his down smash does 10%! It did 15% in Brawl. Why? And increase Super Jump Punch's height. Why does Jumpman have such a sucky recovery. Decrease the startup and ending lag on Fire Orb, and give Fireballs more stun.
-Make it so that all hits of Luigi Cyclone will connect, and revert SJP and the Cyclone to how they were in Brawl. Fireballs need more stun, too.
-Give Rosalina's back air a hitbox, and make it so that you can shield Luma.
-Increase Doc's recovery, remove the sourspot on forward air, make down air faster, maybe make him the slightest bit faster.
-Increase Jigglypuff's run speed, and the speed of all her smash attacks. Don't make Jigglypuff helpless after hitting with Rollout, and revert Pound to how it was in Brawl. Also, give Sing more active frames.
-Remove Falcon's up tilt spike and make his jab a little bit less ridiculous.
Also, Zelda's up tilt needs a 1% buff.

 

[exnecross]

I could tell you the same about Diddy and Sheik.

Why would you even lump these 2 together? Man, I wish Sheik was as easy and reliable as Diddy. They don't even come close.

Sheik is good at mind games, and has more options, but none of these options are guaranteed (aside from very low percent throw -> bouncing fish on some characters and the like). These options allow her mind games, but mind games have nothing to do with Sheik herself, they are solely based on the intelligence and competency of the player behind her vs. the awareness and adaptability of the opponent. Sheik is an example of a great character. She is everything that should be in a character.

She takes much longer to be good with, and I will tell you that Sheik players are the most dedicated players in Smash 4, by far. These players are highly skilled because they have to be. They make Sheik as a character look great, but sometimes players erroneously attribute this skill to Sheik as a character rather than the player behind her.

There is also the problem that a lot of players simply do not have much experience vs Sheik. The reality is that a lot of people learn from For Glory (despite this being arguably a hindrance rather than helpful, although I have witnessed several players who went from novices to threats largely due to playing on FG), and out of my 4,000 battles on For Glory, I have ran into a total of 5 Sheiks. And they were all complete monsters. The best matches I have ever played.

Diddy is the complete opposite. He is strong, kills early, is reliable, and has less options. Less options in his case is a very good thing for him (not going to get into that right now), and this combined with his reliability is the root of the problem. He is an example of a bad character.

We (or, rather, Nintendo) should focus on tweaking characters that need improvement rather than nerfing characters who are already good as they are, as a character.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Why would you even lump these 2 together? Man, I wish Sheik was as easy and reliable as Diddy. They don't even come close.

Sheik is good at mind games, and has more options, but none of these options are guaranteed (aside from very low percent throw -> bouncing fish on some characters and the like). These options allow her mind games, but mind games have nothing to do with Sheik herself, they are solely based on the intelligence and competency of the player behind her vs. the awareness and adaptability of the opponent. Sheik is an example of a great character. She is everything that should be in a character.

She takes much longer to be good with, and I will tell you that Sheik players are the most dedicated players in Smash 4, by far. These players are highly skilled because they have to be. They make Sheik as a character look great, but sometimes players erroneously attribute this skill to Sheik as a character rather than the player behind her.

There is also the problem that a lot of players simply do not have much experience vs Sheik. The reality is that a lot of people learn from For Glory (despite this being arguably a hindrance rather than helpful, although I have witnessed several players who went from novices to threats largely due to playing on FG), and out of my 4,000 battles on For Glory, I have ran into a total of 5 Sheiks.


Diddy is the complete opposite. He is strong, kills early, is reliable, and has less options. Less options in his case is a very good thing for him, and this combined with his reliability is the root of the problem.

I fail to see your point. And the reason why I 'lump those two together" is because they're the two best characters in the game.

 

[exnecross]

I fail to see your point. And the reason why I 'lump those two together" is because they're the two best characters in the game.

I added to my post to hopefully better elaborate. I do not have much time at the moment as I have classes soon, but I will try to do my best to at least make it clear to you.

Sheik is a good character, a great one even. That's good. She plays good. I would say she is the best character in the game. Diddy is a bad character. His play is stale. He is boring and stupidly effective. I've been trying to drive this point. Of course, this is all subject to opinion, but I feel the majority agrees with me on this point at least.

So the real question is, how can we make other characters as solid and fun to play as Sheik? This is not always tweaking damage, lag, or launch power, although that is a big part of it. I would love to theorize in depth about this, but I cannot at the moment.

I understand where you are coming from in terms of just nerfing Sheik a bit more in order to bring her in line with the worse characters, but I am not sure you are seeing the bigger picture. That is the wrong direction to go. Instead, improve upon other characters who need it.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I added to my post to hopefully better elaborate. I do not have much time at the moment as I have classes soon, but I will try to do my best to at least make it clear to you.

Sheik is a good character, a great one even. That's good. She plays good. I would say she is the best character in the game. Diddy is a bad character. His play is stale. He is boring and stupidly effective. I've been trying to drive this point. Of course, this is all subject to opinion, but I feel the majority agrees with me on this point at least.

So the real question is, how can make other characters as solid and fun to play as Sheik? This is not always tweaking damage, lag, or launch power, although that is a big part of it. I would love to theorize in depth about this, but I cannot at the moment.

You're pretty much stating what's already known. People don't play Diddy because he's fun, they play him because he's the best character in the game. Same with Sheik, to a lesser extent.

 

[exnecross]

I added to my post to hopefully better elaborate. I do not have much time at the moment as I have classes soon, but I will try to do my best to at least make it clear to you.

Sheik is a good character, a great one even. That's good. She plays good. I would say she is the best character in the game. Diddy is a bad character. His play is stale. He is boring and stupidly effective. I've been trying to drive this point. Of course, this is all subject to opinion, but I feel the majority agrees with me on this point at least.

So the real question is, how can make other characters as solid and fun to play as Sheik? This is not always tweaking damage, lag, or launch power, although that is a big part of it. I would love to theorize in depth about this, but I cannot at the moment.

You're pretty much stating what's already known. People don't play Diddy because he's fun, they play him because he's the best character in the game. Same with Sheik, to a lesser extent.

I strongly disagree. In my experience, Sheik players main her because they enjoy her unique and fast paced play-style. I think nerfing her is the totally wrong direction, and her even needing nerfs in the first place I feel is arguable. This can be extended to other characters too.

Since we cannot agree on this, let's just not start going in circles. I do enjoy the debate though, but you should probably add more to your arguments.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

@ MarioMeteor

Do you really expect a revolution with each balance patch? Dream big sure, but be realistic. There are only maybe a couple characters who only need slight nerfs, if anything. The game will never be perfect. No fighting game is.

 

[exnecross]

@ MarioMeteor

Do you really expect a revolution with each balance patch? Dream big sure, but be realistic. There are only maybe a couple characters who only need slight nerfs, if anything. The game will never be perfect. No fighting game is.

I do agree with this point in general, but to add to it, plenty of fighters need buffs. You should always be very cautious when nerfing characters, and in my opinion buffing less desirable characters is the best method.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I like the idea of more buffs to other characters and ONLY slightly nerfing what is overwhelmingly problematic. Even though Diddy and Sheik are good they are by no means far and away better than everyone else, many characters can reasonably fight with them. Nerfing unnecessarily can turn off a lot of players. This goes for any game.

 

[Deathcarter]

:
- B-throws get power reduced slightly.

:
- Quick Attack either get slightly more startup lag or no longer does any damage.

:
- Bouncing Fish is no longer safe on shield
- Vanish loses its start up invincibility

:
- Uair gets knockback reduction
- Dair no longer spikes and instead knocks foes upward at a diagonal angle.
- Gravitational Pull gets more endlag

:
- Up-B has less knockback but is harder to DI out of.


- Order Tackle glitch removed.

:
- Damage on Fast Fireball increased by 1%
- Endlag on Standard Fireball reduced

:
-Full Hop height increased so he can reach the platform on Smashville in one jump
-Side-B goes back to original distance in the air.

:
- When using Aether can grab the ledge even when facing away like in Brawl.

:
- Villager can no longer pocket Bike because **** that ****!

:
- Jab comes out in 4 frames.

:
- Grab range increased
- Grab endlag reduced significantly
- Nosferatu blindspot removed

:
- Running speed increased
- Dair start up lag reduced
- Phantasm hitbox range the same as Fox's

:
- Up-throw kills.
- F-throw and D-throw lead into combos more effectively.
- B-throw launches at a more horizontal angle.

:
- Hydrant and Gordo go back to their original health.

:
- Tilts have far less endlag
- Lightweight glitch fixed
- Fair buffed by 2% in damage

:
- Fair and Bair autocancel during short hop.

:
- Smashes all link properly
- Sourspot fair/bair get Palutena fair knockback
- Phantom can now be stored

:
- PK Flash, Giant Punch, Grenades, and Din's Fire no longer cause freefall in the air

:
- B-throws have Toon Link/Sonic level kill power.

Not going to bother listing because those guys have a LOT of things I'd change about them.

 

[Kira~]

For people calling for buffs, to quote some guy on gamefaqs:
"Stop with this power-creep nonsense; if you just keep buffing everything to match the top, eventually you have an entirely different game with MUs that are absolutely all over the place and the game becomes a super-awkward counterpick-fest. You have to set a base level consistent with the games physics and engine that will hopefully deliver the best experience and results. That's probably around Mario-ish right now, maybe slightly better."

 

[exnecross]

For people calling for buffs, to quote some guy on gamefaqs:
"Stop with this power-creep nonsense; if you just keep buffing everything to match the top, eventually you have an entirely different game with MUs that are absolutely all over the place and the game becomes a super-awkward counterpick-fest. You have to set a base level consistent with the games physics and engine that will hopefully deliver the best experience and results. That's probably around Mario-ish right now, maybe slightly better."

I get the sense that many players think buff = % increases and the like. That's not the case at all. Most mid and low tier characters can be buffed in simple ways to make them competitive that has nothing to do with damage increase or launch power. I'll probably post more on this later.

Also, (although this is not related to your post), increasing lag on moves is the most lazy, awful, counterproductive and overall anti-fun way you could possibly balance the game. I've seen people suggest nerfing characters by increasing their lag. Just no.

 

[MarioMeteor]

@ MarioMeteor

Do you really expect a revolution with each balance patch? Dream big sure, but be realistic. There are only maybe a couple characters who only need slight nerfs, if anything. The game will never be perfect. No fighting game is.

Of course not, don't put words in my mouth. It's stuff I'd LIKE to see. Now stuff that I think is actually gonna happen, that's something totally different. I mean, it doesn't take that much to guess. I can tell you right now, Diddy, Sheik, and maybe Sonic'll get nerfed. That's really all I'm expecting, sad as it may be.

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

-Remove Falcon's up tilt spike and make his jab a little bit less ridiculous.

As much as I love Falcon and playing as him, his up-tilt spike is too easy to just always spam and go for, and it's disappointing to see so many Falcons go for this instead of something else.
And yeah, his jab is pretty silly.

 

[MarioMeteor]

As much as I love Falcon and playing as him, his up-tilt spike is too easy to just always spam and go for, and it's disappointing to see so many Falcons go for this instead of something else.
And yeah, his jab is pretty silly.

I've gotten jabbed out of Mario's FRAME 2 jab by Falcon. Why can he do that? Who thought that was a good idea?

 

[Freezie KO]

Re: Marth/Lucina

I agree that they should get huge buffs. Auto-cancelled fairs would be great, but they should have better killing power and at least one decent approach.

Their approaches suck right now with only shield breaker as somewhat safe. Their recovery is linear, predictable, and gimpable. They're two of maybe 4 characters in the whole cast without projectiles. And they don't even have an anti-projectile reflector, so they're forced to approach with their bad approach options.

Re: Sonic

I feel Sonic is just a poorly designed character. There's a real problem when most players' complaint is "playing against Sonic is annoying and not fun." That's different from "Diddy/Sheik is OP."

I'm not sure how to fix that without nerfing Sonic so bad that people just stop playing him. The game honestly stops being conventional Smash Bros. against Sonic and becomes some sort of weird 50/50 hit-and-run guessing game due to his speed.

Re: Sheik

She's obviously one of the best due to her tools. It's silly to argue that somehow Sheik players are more dedicated or skilled. Her fairs are as safe as you can get, as are many of her great moves. Fair, fair, fair is not exactly some highly technical combo. Bouncing fish is safe on shield.

Despite being one of the fastest characters with an ability to react instantly, she still has one of the best camping tools in the whole game with her needles. Her roll is the best in the game. And her recovery not only can't be gimped, but it can kill and has a safety windbox on landing.

She's relatively well-designed if everyone else was up to her level, but let's not pretend that she's merely some upper-mid tier character.

 

[Sakuraichu]

Downfall of the HOOHAA!

 

[MASTER719]

Greninja BUFFS

Dair > UpB
Startup and Lag reduction on B
Fair knockback increase
Uair last hit connects better
Frame 3 standing grab

Any 3 of these would be a godsend

 

[DK-RULES]

I agree with everything else you said, but I'm not sure where you're coming from here. Bowser Jr is a viable character easily and Lucina is a lot better than people give her credit for. It would be nice if she stood out a little more from Marth, but she's hardly bottom of any tier list (Don't get me started on the tier list here or the Japanese one)
If there's anyone who needs buffs for being bottom of the barrel, it's Donkey Kong. Poor guy got a huge nerf from Brawl and is easily the worst of the super heavyweights (Yes, I think DK is worse than Charizard.)

I agree with the DK piece. He has so many disadvantages.

 

[Altais]

Pit needs to be able to grab the ledge backwards after using Power of Flight.

Also, I hope they don't nerf Robin. [EDIT] And like an above poster said, I wouldn't mind Robin's grab range being increased, if only a tiny bit. He/she's a bloody magic user, after all.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Re: Sonic

I'm not sure how to fix that without nerfing Sonic so bad that people just stop playing him.

His Brawl design was perfect. He was fast and he could pile on the percent, but he just had trouble killing. That design fit Sonic and didn't make an annoying son of a *****. But when you start doing 30% in one 3 hit combo, that's when things start to cross "not fun" territory. The Spin Dash is essentially his entire game. Just nerf that and give him less KO power and he'll be somewhat balanced. You don't even have to nerf it, just give it less priority. Point is, he shouldn't be able to spam two or three moves and still win the match. Falcon kind of suffers from the same balance issue, being too strong for such a fast character, except that Falcon has some distinct and exploitable weaknesses, such as a bad recovery.

 

[DK-RULES]

In general, and I say this as a DOnkey Kong main, I would say to leave good characters as they are and buff up low tier characters to balance things out.
As a DK main, I would love his cargo up throw to not launch you as high so you can follow up more often OR reduce the time it takes for him to be able to jump after a cargo throw in any direction. The cargo mechanism in general has little to no use other than positioning yourself a little bit. A little more speed would be helpful in order to fight better against heavy zoning characters. Wishful thinking is to make air down special a barrel drop.

 

[Lag Chan]

In general, and I say this as a DOnkey Kong main, I would say to leave good characters as they are and buff up low tier characters to balance things out.
As a DK main, I would love his cargo up throw to not launch you as high so you can follow up more often OR reduce the time it takes for him to be able to jump after a cargo throw in any direction. The cargo mechanism in general has little to no use other than positioning yourself a little bit. A little more speed would be helpful in order to fight better against heavy zoning characters. Wishful thinking is to make air down special a barrel drop.

DK has a lot to be desired, I could think of a lot that would help him out greatly.
Headbutt could use a bigger hitbox.
Maybe make Handslap do more shield damage or give it slightly less endlag?
Spinning Kong needs less endlag on the ground and on a proper landing
Giant Punch might do better with a slightly faster charge (Why did they make it take longer to charge up anyways?)
And yeah, DK needs something done with his throws. They're not too useful right now.

 

[X1Type1]

So, if you've watched the Direct, (and if you haven't, what rock have you taken up residence in?) you'd know that very soon, there will be an update that will include a variety of things, one of them being "tweaked character balance," as I think they put it. What would you like to see balanced? For me, I'd want to see
1. Diddy's Hoo-Ha removed, and more lag on some of his attacks. Namely his frame 1 down tilt.
2. Some more lag on all of Sheik's moves.
3. Sonic's Spin Dash's priority decreased, and less power on his moves.
4. Fox's double Jab combo removed.
5. Make Doc good.
And you know, some buffs and nerfs here and there. But enough about me, let's hear you.

So nerf all the good characters because bad players cannot beat them? That sounds really fair to all of those who put so much time and effort into the characters you so badly want nerfed. But of course only the bad players that whine matter in the end. Good players mastering good characters don't deserve to win.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

I forgot to mention, it'd be great to see defensive play more punishable. Y'know, make rolling less viable, and shields with a much shorter regen rate, and even less overall shield health would be great.

 

[exnecross]

She's relatively well-designed if everyone else was up to her level, but let's not pretend that she's merely some upper-mid tier character.

Nobody was even implying that. We know she's good. That's the whole point. Change characters that aren't good. Sheik is designed in a very specific way, changing things (especially the proposed nerfs in this thread) could seriously hurt her more than most people seem to realize. "Slight" nerfs like bouncing fish not being safe on shield, increased lag, increasing knockback therefor ruining her combo strings, these are not "slight" nerfs. She needs the tools she has. She relies on pretty much everything available to be viable at top level play.

Buffing characters that are currently having trouble rather than nerfing characters who are solid is the way to go. Besides, buffing weaker characters is also indirectly nerfing the high tier characters.

 

[Apollyon]

Let me see if I got the gist of this thread:

"I lost to a Wario player today, lets nerf him by making his bike motionless in the air as well as giving him sever landing lag."

"I lost to a Sonic player today, lets nerf him by making his spindash unspammable."

"I lost to a Link player today, lets nerf him by making his arrows only do 1% damage as well as no knockback."

"I lost to a ____ player today, lets nerf him by _____."

Is that correct?

Jokes aside, I am getting very tired of seeing players complain about methods of play, characters, etc.. Every game will have characters that take little time to learn and get decent results. Look at Street Fighter and you'll see characters like Ryu, Ken and Akuma.

TL:DR
Diddy = Ryu, Ken, Akuma

If you got problems dealing with a character, go ask a social thread how to deal with them. Diddy grabbing you? Play a spacing character and keep him away. Shiek too fast? Play a spacer that keeps her short range moves in check. Nerfing is NOT the answer to "getting gud".

 

[X1Type1]

If there is going to be a patch, this us what they should do:

Make Greninja the way he was before the first patch except keep Water Shuriken and Hydro Pump the same.
Make Gannon and Falco's running speed slightly faster.
DDD'S gordo ahould eat physical projectiles. Slight decrese in Diddy's damage output (by like 1% or 2%)
Slight decrease in knockback to Sonic's back throw. (should still kill but not as early. Like 140%)
More lag for Yoshi's jab.
Remove Fox's double jab semi - infinite.
Increased range for Wii Fit.
Slightly Increased damage output for DDD, DK, Bowser, Ike, Zelda, Shulk, Pac Man, Gannon, Samus, Little Mac, Meta Knight, Palutena, Dr. Mario, Mega Man, Wario, and Charizard.
Increased kill potential for Pac Man's Smashes.
Decreased landing lag on Mega Man's foward air and all of Meta Knight's airials excluding back air.
increased kill power for Bowser Jr.'s airials
install a rage cap (rage stops if you get a kill)
Allow non omega smashville, town and city, and Battlefield in 1v1 for glory
Install a message notification system for the online community.
downloadable custom moves to avoid grinding.
new stages should be added: Dream Land and Peach's Castle from 64 would be nice.

 

[X1Type1]

Let me see if I got the gist of this thread:

"I lost to a Wario player today, lets nerf him by making his bike motionless in the air as well as giving him sever landing lag."

"I lost to a Sonic player today, lets nerf him by making his spindash unspammable."

"I lost to a Link player today, lets nerf him by making his arrows only do 1% damage as well as no knockback."

"I lost to a ____ player today, lets nerf him by _____."

Is that correct?

Jokes aside, I am getting very tired of seeing players complain about methods of play, characters, etc.. Every game will have characters that take little time to learn and get decent results. Look at Street Fighter and you'll see characters like Ryu, Ken and Akuma.

TL:DR
Diddy = Ryu, Ken, Akuma

If you got problems dealing with a character, go ask a social thread how to deal with them. Diddy grabbing you? Play a spacing character and keep him away. Shiek too fast? Play a spacer that keeps her short range moves in check. Nerfing is NOT the answer to "getting gud".

Finnally somebody with a brain! Well said!

 

[Noiblade]

Buff everybody. It'll be great.

Also, increase hitstun, decrease landing lag, etc. etc. All the typical gripes.

Hitstun is actually fine, we just need the knockback scaling thing to be scaled back.

 

[Lag Chan]

"I lost to a Link player today, lets nerf him by making his arrows only do 1% damage as well as no knockback."

Thanks for taking my comment completely out of context.

 

[Apollyon]

Thanks for taking my comment completely out of context.

Not directed at you specifically, just taking examples. But thanks for making your inner rage against Link known.

 

[Nixon Corral]

Hitstun is actually fine, we just need the knockback scaling thing to be scaled back.

Whatever makes it so I can true combo stomp -> knee.

 

[exnecross]

Whatever makes it so I can true combo stomp -> knee.

No thanks, I like my opponents missing X -> knee 99% of the time.