Bad thoughts to think in tournament

[joeplicate]

So there have always been a few thoughts that, whenever I catch myself saying them in a tournament match, cause red flags to go up. Things like "Man, I suck," "he's just too good," getting frustrated, etc.

These are some of the obvious ones. They tell you that you're in a bad mental state, and if you fixate on them, you're bound to lose. That little voice inside your head gets worse and worse; it saps the focus and mental resources you SHOULD be putting into the game and converts them into negative energy.

After the trip to norcal and before I started school up here, I talked to Brandon on aim for the first time about doing poorly in tournament and having a bad mindset. This was right after A Day at the Zhu, where we'd both played worse than we wanted. He linked me to this ill doctrine video and explained how his biggest problem was losing confidence mid-match. Mine is probably getting upset at myself for not playing like I want to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TpmJgSfZ_8


But anyways, as I've gotten better I can recognize more and more "bad thoughts" as they crop up. There are a lot of inconspicuous ones; Hugo told me awhile ago that, whenever he thought "I might actually win!" against someone better than him, he promptly dropped the match. If you get down on yourself for being bad, or for ****ing up something simple, you start focusing on being "bad." As a result, both your attitude and your gameplay starts going in a negative spiral. Last tournament, I recognized another one. If I'm losing a match, or not playing as well as I should be, I'll start thinking up snide comebacks that will really smart after I lose. If I'm losing to peach, I'll think up clever ways to imply that my opponent spams downsmash. All these pre-johns are, of course, dripping with extra sarcasm and deceit.

But why waste your brain power coming up with good johns when you could play harder and even win the match?

Fortunately, all these thoughts are relatively easy to recognize and to fix. So what are some thoughts that hold you back while you're playing an intense match? Let's get rid of them.

 

[Lovage]

i used to think about my counterpick or what my losers bracket is going to be like
but i don't do that anymore except against peach because i always get frustrated when i fight peach

i think anyone can overcome the voice in the back of their head with enough tournament experience

 

[AzN_Lep]

whenever i'm down i always think no matter how good he is, one grab makes this even again. pretty sure it's how i've been placing decently at any major tournament.

 

[DJMirror]

hmm...i need help with this alot cuz in bracket i do ok (usually i go 2-2) but when it comes down to pools then i get ***** hard and end up choking, losing matches that i shouldn't lose unless the pool is nearly impossible like active gamers coast2coast. I'll start thinking "****kkkkkk, he's a stock ahead of me" or "god****nnnnn WTF am i doing?" then end up performing really bad =___=

 

[-Rei-]

i try not to worry about losing a stock. i try to shake it of as fast as possible, since you can catch up. i just start thinking harder and camping more waiting for an opening.

 

[pockyD]

when i'm down a stock and I either lose nana as ICs or have to up-b to recover as sheik, i pretty much lose all hope

also any time they're at a high percent and my mind enters "i need the KO now" mode (they're at high % and up a stock or something), i get impatient and spam stupid stuff and that gets me wrecked too

 

[Kira-]

i don't think i have any "bad thoughts"

i just believe. that seems to carry me pretty far.
melee is full of zero to deaths and low percent gimps. even if it's not a combo it's MORE than possible to outplay your opponent for one stock and even it up again

this is where stupid confidence really helps



this may be slightly off topic but in order to play at my top potential there must be 3 factors at hand

1. it's in tournament
2. i have to camp really hard
3. i try really hard not to ever get hit (so when i'm on my last stock i do pretty well)

my style is really campy so this might not work for everyone (i've realized that my solution to everything is to camp harder LOL) but in case it does, here you go.


oh and also a long time ago i used to not consciously think about what my opponent was doing and just tried to punish on pure reaction. so once i started memorizing EVERYthing they do in EVERY situation i got better and now it's almost second nature. i havent played anyone yet that made me think- oh **** i really can't do anything, i gotta step it up in a long time, and i recently got done playing M2K so i think this got me to a good place

edit -
one last thing. dont john. johning excuses you from figuring out a way around your deficits. so every time you john, check yourself and force yourself to think of a solution. and not just one solution-- all the best solutions possible

 

[Atlus8]

When I take someone's stock, I think "I can't let this f***er hit me during his invincibility frames!"
When I lose a stock, I think "I gotta hit this f***er during my invincibility frames!"
When I gimp someone, I think "F**k yes! Let's keep this s#!+ up!
When I get gimped, I think "F***en @$$! AHHHH!"
When they SD, I think "Yay! Freeebie!"
When I SD, I think "S#!+ happens!"

 

[Deleted member]

if im playing someone with any kind of reputation for being good, if they start a combo i often think 'wow its true this guy can combo really well,' and then just watch myself get ***** longer than is necessary rather than try and get out of the combo. i play doc i shouldnt really get combo'd.

i also cant beat anyone after a suicide. tooo much frustration.

also, i liked the video.

 

[Deleted member]

I used to think that my opponent was some ****** i really hate and that my goal was to make him my *****. I also had a fear of losing and not being able to win if I don't have my A-game going, even against random noobs


but now I find that just having a focused, peaceful mind is the best way to go with nothing like SDs bothering your flow of gameplay

I also enjoy frustration, since it makes me think a lot harder about my opponent's style and it doesn't really destroy my gameplay

 

[Adam M!]

i mainly just repeat to myself play to win and don't get hit

some other things too but i forget. those two are really all you need

and when i say play to win, i don't mean trying your absolute hardest to win -- sometimes that makes you worse off, like the harder you try, the further away from the goal you get. no, i just mean playing with absolute confidence -- not shying away from a situation or a move because you are afraid you might mess up or because the stakes or too high. go big or go home, if i mess up, who cares. gotta do the right thing in the right situation, and every mistake puts me that much closer to mastery

oh, if anything bad happens or anything dumb, i don't worry about it at all. everything is focused on the present. you can't change the past, all you can do is learn from it. don't let nothing bother you. and if i am ever doubting myself or my opponent, i tell myself, "it's melee son. there is no such thing as a lead."

 

[Kira-]

yeah pretty much my thoughts consist of: "oh he jumped, better get ready to punish his double jump" and "hmm his shield pressure is pretty spot on, im gonna just roll away from this to get away" and "nair to dsmash will cover all side B options, so lets do that cause if he up B's i have enough time to cover that too"

my thoughts do NOT consist of: "wow he's ****ing good" or "**** if i had just gotten that gimp!" or " ugh i hate being laser camped"


basically only stuff about the physical confines of the game, not anything opinionated

 

[San Diego Reaper]

I used have the mentality in my head of "Dont get hit" I even wrote in down on a word doc so i didnt forget. But now, in my case, I just try to stay completely focused on what my opponent is doing. I know what my opponents options are so Im usually prepared for what they are gonna do.

My new mentality is to "stay aggressive". I realized that when you pressure your opponent its alot harder for them to focus or even make good decisions. When i had the "dont get hit mentality" i found myself hesitating on punishing certain openings cuz i was not sure if they could react and hit me instead. I ended up letting my opponent reset too much.

I worst problem in tournaments is getting nervous. Usually its not a problem but there are times when i really feel nervous and as a result my aggression drops and I hesitate. That is what usually costs me the game in close matches

 

[LooksLikePit]

Just staying aware during matches is super important. If you're #1 focus is the match and nothing else, such thought can't occur, because when you make a mistake you simply observe it and think of a solution, and the mistake becomes a chance for learning instead of a chance to beat yourself up.

 

[practice_mAn]

i tell myself to be more gentle

then I do a couple more gentlemen

win or lose, 3S Dudley is on my side X )

 

[bbb]

my thought process in smash is just if I get the opportunity I should be throwing out moves all the time and hope they don't block or mis-space it and get hit

it's not a very good strategy but thats how it is

 

[ConnorTheKid]

I almost always lose confidence when down 2 or more stocks. That happened again when I played P on Saturday. >___> I usually don't think I can get a quick gimp and even it up again now that I main Peach and don't have a shine. P is right though, you just have to not let it bother you and outplay your opponent on your last few stocks.

 

[DJMirror]

if im playing someone with any kind of reputation for being good, if they start a combo i often think 'wow its true this guy can combo really well,' and then just watch myself get ***** longer than is necessary rather than try and get out of the combo. i play doc i shouldnt really get combo'd.

i also cant beat anyone after a suicide. tooo much frustration.

also, i liked the video.

just like our set at the arcadian tournament


I keep telling myself during our set "I'm going to pissed as hell if i lose this match"

back then before i started melee, in srk it was "I'm going to ****ing punch this guy in the face"

 

[Rosedemon]

Sometimes, i'll be playing someone, and then i'll think: "**** this guy is hot."

Then I usually lose cuz I didnt wanna make the hot guy mad.

 

[DJMirror]

what i hate is during teams

when you cant save your partner

I'll start thinking "**** that my fault that i couldn't save him" or when you hit him "**** i hit him again"



i feel bad for kira, maple, psychomidget and connor

i keep killing them/hitting them =___= team is hard to get good

 

[LunInSpectra]

This is what I like to do at tournaments:

1) Warm up my hands
2) Push my thinking abilities slightly towards their limits in friendlies
3) Tell myself to relax, have fun, and socialize
and
4) Perform; forget every single negative thought and recall anything that gives me the illusion that I'm the best

Each step doesn't always work the best but when they do I'm awesome.

Edit:

Actually, I firmly believe that the only way to be the best at Anything is to first assume you're the best, then do whatever is consistent with being the best.

 

[Lovage]

what i hate is during teams

when you cant save your partner

I'll start thinking "**** that my fault that i couldn't save him" or when you hit him "**** i hit him again"



i feel bad for kira, maple, psychomidget and connor

i keep killing them/hitting them =___= team is hard to get good

saving your partner by hitting is worth it like 8% of the time, it's infinitely better to just protect the ledge from the other team so that your partner can recover without getting hit. some ways i like to do this:

-running near the edge and sitting in your shield, people are scared to recklessly attack because they might get shined OOS
-getting near the edge and charging a fsmash away. usually scares people off for 1-2 seconds, long enough for your partner to grab the edge and help you after you get hit (or sometimes the fully charged fsmash hits the other team and they look stupid)
-grab the edge and shine-firefox stall until your teammate gets close, then letting go of the edge right when he needs it

let your partner recover by his own means, just clear the way for him

 

[LooksLikePit]

The best solution is to team with a peach player so you rarely need to protect the edge. It makes teams so much easier.

 

[Deleted member]

just like our set at the arcadian tournament

yeah i guess thats an example. you still made great reads and kept my back to the ledge in the third match. thats earning it.

can we never speak of that set again? im trying really hard never to john again, and im really just embarrased at how mad i was after losing. sorry.

 

[Adam M!]

I almost always lose confidence when down 2 or more stocks. That happened again when I played P on Saturday. >___> I usually don't think I can get a quick gimp and even it up again now that I main Peach and don't have a shine. P is right though, you just have to not let it bother you and outplay your opponent on your last few stocks.

lol i remember when my marth went up two stocks early, and i could just feel the life seep out of your body. it felt like you were gonna give up, although me telling you to stop being a ***** may have been the reason i lost the set

 

[joeplicate]

yeah i guess thats an example. you still made great reads and kept my back to the ledge in the third match. thats earning it.

can we never speak of that set again? im trying really hard never to john again, and im really just embarrased at how mad i was after losing. sorry.

don't worry about not johning

johns are a part of life
but just realize that they're you covering up for something, and by thinking about it you can solve that problem

but trying to suppress johns can lead to psychosis and other nasty stuff

 

[Kira-]

so for the first time im beginning to think that sheik may not cut it against ICs (although I want to try one more thing with sheik before I use someone else)

would it be better to just use peach or use the 2nd best character i'm most comfortable with

 

[Fly_Amanita]

You need to actually know how to use Peach if you want to beat ICs with her.

 

[San Diego Reaper]

Get Better With Sheik
Yeah this game has advantageous match-ups, but its balanced enough where skill makes the biggest difference. You got this.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Also, I agree that Sheik does fine against ICs. There really aren't all that many characters that do significantly better against ICs than she does. There's Peach/Ganon definitely; I think Marth/Samus/Fox/Falcon/maybe Falco do better against ICs than Sheik does, and Doc probably does about the same as her in the match-up.

 

[Adam M!]

sheik ***** the **** out of ICs

your style is just an awful way to play the matchup

you can always do what captain jack did: use zelda when there are two ICs, then switch to sheik when you kill nana

i would say sheik is > than ICs than falcon, doc or falco

 

[pockyD]

sheik does as least as well as falco for sure and much better than doc imo (though i largely seem to be alone on the theory that ICs destroy doc)

 

[Kira-]

iono i guess im bad at not getting grabbed

i feel like i could win in 80% of the situations but one bad tech or one mis-spaced attack and i lose the stock. sure people have been saying this all the time but this really feels like an uphill battle. if fly CCs one tilt, or gets under my sh fair or knocks me to the ground at all i'm in a very bad place to get grabbed- basically if he hits me i'm at risk of getting grabbed

now that he's learned the matchup a lot better it's really hard to win each positional situation that comes up

puff is the same thing but she moves slower and she has less opportunities to get rests in; less things lead to rest than grab. ICs can WD in at any time and it's pretty quick so I won't be reacting as much as I can against puff.

I think it's the WD and their dsmash/fsmashes that give me the most trouble. i have to guard against these attacks (which do a lot of damage)

mario/doc can cg me too but i'm never worried because there's not a lot to finish me off. Once popo is done chaingrabbing me i get ***** by blizzard then fsmash- not easy to deal with.

i wouldn't go fox because fly has too much experience against fox even though he would be the easy choice. but falco can control the stage a lot better and he can GRAB ICs which is so fukken useful. sheik cant grab ICs for **** so it's really hard to get anything done without getting into a battle of attrition which is bad for me because he only needs one opening while I need like 4-6 in a row.


please send me videos of a sheik playing the matchup correctly. because as far as i know, no sheik main beats an equally skilled ICs main. A lot of sheik mains switch characters, like Vans, Tope, and even Drephen. And everyone always says there's a reason Chu has never lost to a sheik.


also fly that's just the thing- almost all the characters do better against ICs than sheik does lol. you forgot puff too

 

[debaser]

Even though this is friendlies and neither player are using their mains, this might still be worth watching for you based on the player skill alone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1UDgHL04so

 

[bbb]

I watched it for the song

 

[San Diego Reaper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE5YxKffCtQ

This is a good game to study. Sheik definitely suffers from the same problems that you brought up in your matches. But he is also pretty good style of approaching and dealing with them as well.

 

[Deleted member]

kneeing a grabbed opponent is the hardest thing in the game

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Kira, you need to bair more. You probably need to dsmash less, too, since it's easy to punish unless ICs are near the edge.

 

[pockyD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE5YxKffCtQ

This is a good game to study. Sheik definitely suffers from the same problems that you brought up in your matches. But he is also pretty good style of approaching and dealing with them as well.

you can clearly see the disadvantage sheik has in this video though; chu lands TONS of sync'd grabs and fails to take forward to death (a lot of the time, he fails to even do 30%), which is very easily possible for any good IC player... if chu successfully executed a punish (which generally aren't that hard if you're focused on it, since the grabbed player has minimal control) even once more, the outcome would have been different

anyway, the thing is, if sheik is by far your best character and your peach isn't up to par, I don't feel like there's another character that would present a good enough matchup to switch to someone you're much worse at

 

[Adam M!]

i feel like i could win in 80% of the situations but one bad tech or one mis-spaced attack and i lose the stock. sure people have been saying this all the time but this really feels like an uphill battle.

that's the problem make with judging a matchup: the difficulty of a matchup is not how hard it is to play optimally but what happens once you are playing optimally. misspacing an attack or teching wrong is just your fault, and in any matchup that will get you punished just as hard if you're playing a player who's good enough. the only difference with ICs is that you don't have to be as good to punish 100% optimally than with other characters. but that doesn't mean the matchup is harder; that just means the learning curve is higher. im sure a lot of people think that's the same but it's not.

if fly CCs one tilt

your fault

or gets under my sh fair

your fault

or knocks me to the ground at all

again, your fault

now that he's learned the matchup a lot better it's really hard to win each positional situation that comes up

i really don't think he's that exceptional at the matchup tbqh, and neither does he (the last time we played, anyway, he mentioned as such)

i wouldn't go fox because fly has too much experience against fox even though he would be the easy choice.

what does that mean? it doesn't mean anything if you think about it. fox ***** ICs and if your fox is good enough, your fox will **** his ICs as well. sure, he has experience against fox but he doesn't have experience against YOUR fox. and the great thing about fox is that you can know what's coming every time but it's still unstoppable if the fox is good enough.

but falco can control the stage a lot better and he can GRAB ICs which is so fukken useful.

the same thing you're whining about with sheik -- get hit once and you're dead -- is the same problem with falco, only to the nth degree.

sheik cant grab ICs for ****

she doesn't need to

a battle of attrition which is bad for me because he only needs one opening while I need like 4-6 in a row

not true at all.

1. sheik only needs one combo to kill nana. that's why sheik ***** ICs; she kills nana EFFORTLESSLY. i have played fly a lot with fox, sheik and marth and my favorite thing about using sheik is how easy it is to kill nana once you get ICs out of CC percent.

2. even if it is a "battle of attrition," if it's that much harder for him to get his opening, who cares? and if you play sheik correctly, it is extremely hard for ICs to ever get that opening. the only time ICs should ever grab you is when you mess up. they can't earn their own openings.

because as far as i know, no sheik main beats an equally skilled ICs main.

look at the sample size. you're talking about two charaters who are rarely used. you can count on your hand the number of sheik and IC mains.

And everyone always says there's a reason Chu has never lost to a sheik.

because he's better than everyone he plays?