B+ 4.1 Feed Back/ Ideas

[KaizoHax]

"We'd like everyone's opinion on this codeset. While we are trying to produce the most competitive set available, this is still a community project" -Almas

So I've decided to take Almas advice and provide some personal feed back.

-just some fixes/changes that I think can improve b+ gameplay and make more competetive.
-I recently believed that b+ was still too slow, but I came to realize it actually has heavier gravity and faster fast-falling than melee now O__O"
-So why does it still feel slower and less exiting?...here are some things that might help...

*Not saying that all this should be added but I just want to know what you guys think about it


-Feed Back-

1. fix air momentum (still loosing too much speed/momentum when jumping outta dash run)

2. fix sliding (due to momentum) *especially Falcon's short hop.....YESZ! [X] Work In Progress

3. some jumps are too high (for example Toons SH/ would benefit his zair and neutral if it was shorter) / *I would leave second jump as is and reduce SH and Full Hop on some characters

4. ledges still have too much suction (limits alot of off-stage game/can't ledge hop to spike most of the time because the ledge sucks them in and gives them invincibility frames too early)

5. too many invincibilty frames (mostly on ledge) *I would shave off frames [X] improved

6. figure out a way for better tech-chasing (i've been trying to figure it out/ melee has longer tech-rolls...if that helps)

7. Alot of throws have way too much knock back (not all but alot)/ and some need more KBG (ex. peach's F-throw)

8. better camera (more zoomed out/ faster pace) *more melee like

9. Less knock back when hitting against the side or underside of the stage (kills way too easy in my opinion, even at low percentages) *would improve off-stage game

10. fix/work on scar jumping (plus some stages don't allow you to wall jump when you are too low) *good example is warioware

11. Either remove foot stooling or make it another button other than jump (this way you don't get foot stooled and killed by accident, which is almost 90% of time) *would make it more skillful

12. *BIG REQUEST - fast falling b specials (not all just some like: fireballs, lasers, thunder ect.) *I would also reduce endlag a bit for better usage


-Less Important- *IDEAS

1. give falcon a bigger Dair hitbox....YESZ! [X] DONE

2. completely rework marth's side b (I would slow it down and fix the KB) *and his sword dance spike would be nice

3. also make marth's sourspot on his dair more useful...(right now it basically saves the enemy because of the ridiculous angle and KB it has)

4. Jiggz rest is a bit too strong @_@.....imo

5. work on bowsers up b momentum (for easier edgehog from on stage)

6. rework ganons up-tilt (it is very useless at the moment, it is slower than warlock punch and deals less damage(27%)/ *I would speed it up but give it less damage, maybe around 19-21%

7. Another pretty useless move is Ness' pk flash....*just an idea/ let the move execute even if ness gets hit

8. Remove ssz's 3 armor pieces when match starts (she already is a very good character)

9. Let DDD pick up his waddledees and not automatically throw them

10. No invincibility after respawn from death (or just enough so you can get to the floor without being hit)

11. reduce transformation time for zelda/sheik

12. Remove auto jabs... *If anything atleast make them have a limit

*That's it for now....

comment on what you think can possibly be good for B+/ remember that most of these are opinion based so don't take it up the butt ^_^

 

[professor mgw]

some of them actually makes sense, some is
.....

 

[Nexus Bond]

"We'd like everyone's opinion on this codeset. While we are trying to produce the most competitive set available, this is still a community project" -Almas

So I've decided to take Almas advice and provide some personal feed back.

-just some fixes/changes that I think can improve b+ gameplay and make more competetive.
-I recently believed that b+ was still too slow, but I came to realize it actually has heavier gravity and faster fast-falling than melee now O__O"
-So why does it still feel slower and less exiting?...here are some things that might help...

*plz consider my feed-back and take it seriously...thx, hope it helps ^^
-Less Important- *IDEAS
8. Remove ssz's 3 armor pieces when match starts

10. No invincibility after respawn from death

11. reduce transformation time for zelda/sheik

12. Remove infinite jabs... *I would make them last 2-3 seconds at the most for for skilled use

*That's it for now....

comment on what you think can possibly be good for B+/ remember that most of these are opinion based so don't take it up the butt ^_^

8. That's a really big part of her game though.
10. Maybe just less invincibility.
11. I expect this can't be done.
12. Why?

 

[Sprint]

yoshi jump out of shield

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Yoshi's shield has less lag. it is PRETTY laggy now.

Why have this thread? Isn't this what the official thread is for? correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Arkaether]

1. I personally like the momentum, though I wouldn't mind a slight increase. This is personal opinion, so I don't agree/disagree

2. Sliding's not really THAT big of an issue. Changing momentum would change this as well, though, so same as #1.

3. I agree, some SH are a tad too high. I'm pretty sure this'll be fixed later on when they start focusing on characters a bit more, though

4. No. I like the ledge distance. I could provide a long, lengthy, drawn-out post explaining exactly why I feel so, but I'm pretty sure this was already covered in a bunch of other topics when kupo kept mentioning that it should be removed.

5. Yeah, there is a tad too much, especially considering they're using no-lag edges. I think they're planning to reduce it, though.

6. Tech-chasing is, in my opinion, something people tend to beat off to for no good reason. The point of a tech is to get out of strings, not so people can chase you and have a chance to start new ones, ESPECIALLY not so that people can chase you and be guaranteed to start new ones.

7. Agreed, but there is currently no code that can modify throw KBG/BKB. So we can't do it even though we want to.

8. Uh...it doesn't really matter that much...

9. Stagespikes are stagespikes. They're stagespikes. They don't need to be changed, they're meant to **** at low percentages.

10. They're working on it.

11. No. Footstooling is a key aspect that makes Brawl not Melee.

12. Why?

Section 2:

1. WHY?

2. No. Wtf are you smoking?

3. No. It's plenty good as is. Stop trying to spike with it if you're not skilled enough to land it.

4. No. Wtf are you smoking, learn to play the game, learn to punish, and durp durp. Don't you attack my jigglypuff.

5. I dunno, it feels pretty decent to me.

6. No, it has a few extremely situational uses. Ganon is fine without a utilt buff. There is no need for this.

7. Agreed.

8. No. That's stupid. Her 3 armor pieces are key aspects to her game. What, do you want to remove DDD's waddle doos too?

9. Eh? Pick up? Like an item? ...why?

10. What the HELL are you smoking?

11. Don't think they can do this, but it'd sure be nice.

12. Infinite jabs? Lolwut? Since when were they infinite? If you mean auto-jab, no.

Also, two of MY points.

1. This should be in the official thread or nightly builds thread. There was NO need to make a new thread.
2. It'd be really nice if you at least provided SOME sort of reasoning or logical explanation for these. A lot of these are just "oh well I'd like it this way just because" and not "it actually should be changed for a reason instead of your personal whims, and I have the reasons to prove it".

 

[cAm8ooo]

There is a whole thread devoted to ideas and feed back on beta 4.1

 

[Clever_Sleazoid]

1. Couldn't hurt.

2. Fix it as in... more or less?

3. Ugh, needs more details.

4. I'm just not a fan of the huge sweetspot in general.

5. Hmm, I disagree. You would need way too exact precision to ledge hog if we shave off more frames.

6. fI concur, it needs to be just a TAD BIT more viable option of string continuations.

7. I dunno.

8. I like it as is. And if you use textures it sucks when it zooms out XD.

9. Nah, if they don't tech it, they die, simple.

10. YESZ!

11. NOO!

12. On SOME would be nice, needs much debate for which.






1. Nipple spike is acoming.

2. I dunno.

3. That is true... maybe sightly more KB?

4. NO! It's pretty much at the point where it will kill when you can't combo into it anymore. And if you get combo'd on the side of the stage, your fault.

5. Shanus said it's doable now, haven't tried it. It just needs way more skill to pull off than the super easy melee way of just rolling off stage.

6. PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE! I want his utilt to either KILL like in melee, or perhaps allow a free move from it, some guy did a test version (Cape?) where it's very fast but weak.

7. 1.25x speed or activates AS SOON AS NESS IS HIT! That's my hope.

8. ...Yeah, she's a beast, I want the armor out.

9. Nah...

10. NO! Maybe like 20 frames less, but that's it.

11. Sure, but not neccesarry.

12. Why...?

 

[Almas]

This is the kind of feedback that would be perfect for the Brawlplusery thread. I've put a copy of it into there - I hope you don't mind. I'm sure that one of the more competent players in the WBR will provide structured feedback to it there soon enough. But I'll respond with what I know.

1 - I was under the impression most people were satisfied with momentum at the moment. It's interesting to see that some people do not agree.

2- Yeah, there are a couple of characters who will have their friction modified, but on the whole I think it is fine.

3 - Can you give more specific cases? There haven't been many complaints about the current jump/falling physics, and there's a lot of places people might dislike them. So it'd be nice to know exactly which changes you think would be appropriate.

4 - The ledge grab range is a subject of heated debate. I think it may be shrunk a little, but I can't be sure.

5 - Invulnerability frames on the ledge can be both good and bad. By increasing them, you improve the viability of ledgehop recoveries, and make guarding the edge from certain recoveries a lot easier to do. However, you also make planking more viable. I can't really comment on this.

6 - I think the quality of the techchase game changes from character to character. But it is something we're interested in.

7 - Throw modification would be nice, but the extent of the changes we would make is debatable. A lot of characters could be given a lot of combo options from grabs, but is that really what we want? Does Peach really need a killing FThrow in the current game?

8 - We're interested in changing the camera, but the current codes to do it are glitchy.

9 - I don't see an issue with stagespikes right now. They encourage gimping that can be countered by good tech skill.

10 - I guess

11 - I find I can footstool quite intentionally, and I think many people can too. There's only luck involved if you're not accustomed to it.

12 - People want FF Specials, but it would change gameplay a lot.