Awesome, Zamus has a Chain Grab! ~

[Ulevo]

I'm just adding it to my thread now in the siggy. It's her Forward Throw, but you need to initiate a Dash immediately before you grab. This will cause her to slide as she moves her whip forward. By doing this, she can grab repeatedly on a decent number of characters. The worst is Dedede, who get's screwed until like 80%.

" This is what I've been doing to people?! WHATS WRONG WITH ME?! "

 

[ph00tbag]

Err, this should be escapable by pretty much every character.

 

[Ulevo]

Err, this should be escapable by pretty much every character.

No, it's not. It works on the characters in my signature thread. Check it out and try it yourself.

 

[Deg222]

I just tried this on some of the characters you listed there on your thread. It works, but not until 80%, by that point DDD, the example you used, goes too far up and is able to just jump away. It works until about 45% ish for me. I tested this against level 9 comps btw.

 

[BoredPeanut]

Yeah I managed to do it on some 9's as well. Have yet to try it on an actual player though. It seems kind of the same as the downsmash chain.

 

[Ulevo]

All of the characters listed in my thread can be grabbed by this Chain Grab. Some are harder than others, such as Falcon and Wolf. Others are very easy, such as Fox and Dedede. Dedede can be chained up to about 80% in Training mode, probably higher due to decay in versus mode.

And yes, I used my friend to test these characters. They DO work. I tested Shines, Side Steps, Up Bs. You name it.

 

[momochuu]

So it's legit?

 

[DarkShadowRage]

So we got a Chain Grab, a Chain Smash, a Pillaring Chain Smash
ZSS is full of chains.

 

[James Sparrow]

This has been known for quite some time. But kudos to you and your thread!

 

[Ulevo]

This has been known for quite some time. But kudos to you and your thread!

Why thank you. I didn't see it posted around, so I thought I would inform.

So it's legit?

Yes it's legit.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Wrong. I discovered this a long time ago. It doesn't work as a chain grab because the forward-throw throws them too far upwards and they can jump out of it. At 0% you can pull it off maybe 2-3 times if your opponent doesn't suspect it, but don't expect it to work anymore after that.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156696

As you can see I was naive and thought it was inescapable as well.

 

[fkacyan]

Haha, it's good for the lulz, really, but most people I know just jump out.

Though if you keep running you can usually upB dsmash them for another chain. Heh.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Oh yeah, I have a video showing this semi-chain in my ZSS tutorial vid. Also, I just feel like being a credit *****. I apologize for the bad transitions, I didn't time them all that well at the end.

Skip to 2:25.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gHWYROPCgY

 

[ph00tbag]

I'm not sure who or what you're testing this out with, but as Cake said, this chain has been known about and more or less debunked. DI up and jump, and most of the cast should be able to escape.

 

[Shuyin]

It's only a good idea to chain it once. Any more and its a big risk. If you whiff the chain grab, you're going to get punished.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

I don't think that is a chain grab, I saw above, semi-chain, that sounds suiting, and it is ineffective at anything but low damage percentages.
I wouldn't try to use it repeatedly, but it can bekinda suprising to get grabbed a few times in a row with someone who has an embarrassingly slow grab.

 

[Ulevo]

Wrong. I discovered this a long time ago. It doesn't work as a chain grab because the forward-throw throws them too far upwards and they can jump out of it. At 0% you can pull it off maybe 2-3 times if your opponent doesn't suspect it, but don't expect it to work anymore after that.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156696

As you can see I was naive and thought it was inescapable as well.

It is inescapable on frame perfect precision against the following characters:

Link, Zero Suit Samus, Fox, Snake, Ike, Falco, Sheik, Ganondorf, King Dedede, Wolf, Bowser and Captain Falcon.

Thanks to your post, I just debunked DK, as he can jump out. We must have missed that. But jumping does not help the majority of these characters if you have the grab down perfectly. In versus mode, this can likely get most of these characters to around 40%, some higher, so this IS a good technique to use.

Don't believe me, go into training 1/4 and try it yourself with perfect timing. You can't dash with the forward throw, you have to use her sliding momentum and grab immediately once you hit forward so it appears as though she doesn't dash.

 

[DeliciousCake]

That makes no sense that DK can jump out of it yet lighter characters can't. Also, you even said it yourself that it's unreliable over 40% by your testing.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

So let's just call it a semi-chain grab, it is only effective at low percrentages.

 

[Ulevo]

So let's just call it a semi-chain grab, it is only effective at low percrentages.

No. A semi-chain is a grab that can be escaped if proper measures are taken, such as DI, but is good to catch a player off guard. A grab that cannot be escaped that goes beyond two is a Chain Grab, which is exactly what this is. Also, 40% is not low. If you feel that it is, then please try to explain that on the Falco board, because they thrive on chaining people to 40-45% on most of the cast.

That makes no sense that DK can jump out of it yet lighter characters can't. Also, you even said it yourself that it's unreliable over 40% by your testing.

Unless you bother testing yourself, please don't assume things. DK is able to jump sooner because he doesn't have as much stun animation after the throw, and he doesn't fall as fast. It is only presumed that DK can be grabbed easily because of how large he is.

Weight =/= rate of falling speed. Hence why Fox/Wolf/Captain Falcon are the fastest fallers.

Also, you ARE aware most of Falcos chains go to 40-45% on the majority of the cast, right? Just because it stops working doesn't mean it isn't useful. Most characters would kill for a Chain Grab that goes to 40% on opponents. This one even goes past 50% for a few of them, and Dedede is totally ruined by this.

 

[ph00tbag]

40% is low to a ZSS main. We can't kill until over 110% on most characters. Besides, we have our own ways of racking up damage. For instance, try dsmash -> dsmash -> usmash. That's about 33% right there. Furthermore, extolling chain throws to a ZSS main is like telling a dog about how awesome catnip is.

I'm going to repeat my skepticism as to your testing methods. I've seen most characters DI out of this at very low percents. I don't mean to discredit your tests, but I've not seen this work on the characters you're suggesting.

 

[Ulevo]

40% is low to a ZSS main. We can't kill until over 110% on most characters. Besides, we have our own ways of racking up damage. For instance, try dsmash -> dsmash -> usmash. That's about 33% right there. Furthermore, extolling chain throws to a ZSS main is like telling a dog about how awesome catnip is.

I'm going to repeat my skepticism as to your testing methods. I've seen most characters DI out of this at very low percents. I don't mean to discredit your tests, but I've not seen this work on the characters you're suggesting.

You do not have to believe me, I am merely here to inform. I tested this with another human player, and in x 1 speed, x 1/2 speed, and 1/4 in order to ensure that my timing for the throw was correct, and that my friends timing to jab, roll, jump, reflect, whatever the hell it was he needed to do to get out, was correct as well. If you have frame perfect precision, these will work on the characters I have listed (some are tougher to do than others, such as Captain Falcon, Snake and Wolf).

Zamus is not my main, but she is one of my best characters, and I use her frequently enough. I have used this method effectively, and I have even killed my friend on an occasion or two with it on walk off stages versus a character this works on. Also, just because Zamus can rack up damage easily through other methods does not invalidate this as another method. You may land that Down Smash that leads into a 40% combo from 0% at the start of the match. Then again, you may grab your opponent instead. It is up to the players discretion, and this option is certainly not worthless. How useful it is can be debated from player to player, but arguing it doesn't work isn't quite fair.

 

[MprisM]

I'm beginning to become upset by this, I commented on DeliciousCakes thread awhile back, and apparently new people bounce in and refuse to believe me.

It's not a chain throw. And if you have specific perfection % in which people cant jump out or cant STEP DODGE to avoid it, then kudos to you. It's still worthless.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Unless you are actually going to post video proof of this, along with footage of us showing you mashing jump/spotdodge or whatever, I refuse to believe you seeing as how I have attempted this before you. This is not a chain.

 

[Ulevo]

I'm beginning to become upset by this, I commented on DeliciousCakes thread awhile back, and apparently new people bounce in and refuse to believe me.

It's not a chain throw. And if you have specific perfection % in which people cant jump out or cant STEP DODGE to avoid it, then kudos to you. It's still worthless.

Thanks for contradicting yourself.

Unless you are actually going to post video proof of this, along with footage of us showing you mashing jump/spotdodge or whatever, I refuse to believe you seeing as how I have attempted this before you. This is not a chain.

You made a thread before me. Good for you. Are you going to mention how your post count is higher while you're at it? If I had video equipment (and I plan to buy a capture card soon), I would have already made Chain Grab videos for all of them in my thread by now. Unfortunately, I don't. That doesn't disprove anything.
I have a friend who tests these with me, and he mashes jump, he side steps, he rolls, he jabs, he Nairs and Fairs, he air dodges, he reflects, he Up Bs, and anything else we need to do to get out of these. This works. Personally, if you can't get this to work, I think you're just bad. No offense or anything.

I'm leaving this thread alone until I do get video equipment, because you seem to be very skeptical about anything unless someone provides you visual proof, which I think is a little closed minded. But anyway, until that time comes, I'll leave this be and come back another time. Until then, do yourself a favor. Go into training mode, slow it down to 1/4 speed, and attempt this on Dedede, Fox, and a few others.

 

[DeliciousCake]

I'm not going to say my post count is higher than yours as an excuse to be elitist because it's been done to me and I know first hand that people who do that are just *******. I'm skeptical because I have tested this. Saying I'm bad is offensive. Don't come back without video proof and then I'll think about apologizing for being skeptical.

 

[Snakeee]

I haven't tested this out too much yet, but its worked to some extent on good players. In any case any extra damage is useful and an easy 40% or so is not bad at all. I'll see if it really works out like you mentioned, but good stuff.

And Cake, don't get so worked up about finding it first and if it does actually work and you thought it didn't, well I've had that happen to me before, its not that big a deal.

 

[DeliciousCake]

I'm really not making a big deal out of finding it out first. I'm just a skeptic, and I want proof showing that it works consistently.

 

[James Sparrow]

on fat guys it does..............................i don't have proof though

 

[Snakeee]

My brother got out of it I think at 0% with DDD.... >_> maybe my timing was off though.

 

[Pubik Vengeance]

Such anger. Such fear. Such hostility.


Can't we all just get along?!?!