Awesome New Zelda ATs

[sFoster]

Ok I am going to take a moment to share something I learned



#1) U-Air on a Standing Opponent
(What name best describes this?)

It's possible to do this without a fastfall, but fastfalling seems more effective to me
I prefer either (A) short hop, u-air, fastfall or (B) regular jump, fastfall, u-air

For a low damage opponent, you can immediately u-smash afterwards to juggle them for an easy 30 damage, and it will KO bowser (heavy) from the ground on final destination around 120.

That is extremely significant IMO, because many of Zelda's moves don't initiate a juggle. (aka dsmash, dash attack..etc)

The shortest characters this will work on are mario, sonic, and fox.
That means it does NOT hit TL, Ice Climbers, pikachu, diddy kong ..etc

It will hit wolf as long as he's not in his crouching animation, which happens when he is idle.
Ironically diddy kong is too short to be hit by this, but his idle animation bounces him in the air lol.

I wouldn't REALLY recommend this against wolf or diddy in combat, since it's an extra layer of trickyness and hence unrelaible. The best people to use this against are tall characters such as snake, ike, or another zelda.

#2) B-Reversal's and WaveBouncing (aka Recoil Specials)

I was discussing these in S2's keeping it classy thread.
They allow Zelda to reverse her momentum in the air and turn on a dime.

You can throw din's fire in any direction, and at the same time propell Zelda in any direction as well (independant of the direction you throw the dins)

General tactics section: B-Reversal's and WaveBouncing (aka Recoil Specials)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156176

They're really sweet, and actually apply better to Zelda than any other character!
I can't stress enough how much you should learn them =D

With the gamecube controller set to smash stick, it's fairly difficult to press the c-stick + B in order to preform Zelda's special moves. It becomes easier if you set the L, R or Z button to special, and then you can use the c-stick + specials by pressing the buttons at the same time. It's also easier to do these moves with B-Sticking.

Or if you have a nun-chuck/wii-mote, I think it's really easy to set the d-pad to smashes and press B at the same time in a direction.

Here is a link to S2's thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158672
It has an updated section now on din's fire, and we discuss some particulars of these two techniques and the advantages of B-Sticking on the later pages.

#3) Dinjin Retreating Air Charge

I like using this for edge guarding
This involves using a B-Reversal to reverse Zelda's momentum in the air.
Stand near the edge, jump away from it (not towards), then double jump away from it again.

At the peak of your jump, preform a b-reversal to send both zelda and the din's fire back toward the edge. Because all you did was reverse your momentum, this results in zelda returning to the same place she left!

The dins fie explodes a little bit in front of you, by the edge.
What is the advantage to this technique, one might ask?

You are preforming a full-length din's fire a few feet in front of you by the ledge, and returning to the same spot. The hitbox and the damage both DOUBLE in size using this technique, because of the extra range it adds onto your dins.

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

Hm... #1 seems like something I've tried like 100 times in Training Mode without anything happening. But I'll try to follow your instructions closely and see if it works.

If it does... Wow. =O

And about #2... Seriously, you GC controller Zelda's - switch to b-sticking. Smashes you can do without the C, but this reversal is almost impossible without b-sticking. And yes, it does add some extra dimensions to Zeldas game - particularly her otherwise weak approach game.

 

[sFoster]

You can't do the auto-rar without b-sticking, but I wasn't trying to make this a controller debate thread. Just stating what had worked for me, and how it's possible to preform these moves but still keep the smash stick that a lot of people are accustomed to.

Good luck with #1, I assure you it works, but it's all about the timing.
It can be as difficult to "sweet spot" as her jump kicks, but with a smash stick it's becomes a little easier

Because the smash stick will do the up-a without changing your momentum, you're free to point the control-stick down and toward your opponent to aim it directly into them. You have to hit down at the peak of your jump so that zelda fastfalls, which is the key to landing this successfuly.

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

I've been training with #1 now for a while. What will it be called, btw? Uair Spike or something? =)

It works really well, I'll be adding this to my Zelda moves. I've been trying to figure out ways to implement it, and I think I've come up with a few now.

 

[Atlantis]

Awesome, just the kind of thread i needed to restore my faith in Zelda again!!!!!

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

The Alley Oop

Hope you don't mind me posting this here, but since it's based on your #1 there I felt that it would be just stupid to post it somewhere else or - even worse - start a new topic for it.

So eitherway, I've discovered a way to "easily" hit with sFoster's brilliant #1. He describes that it's easier to hit it with the smash stick, and I agree - unless you go at it from a different approach. So I tried the auto-rar (reverse jumping using b-sticking) thing in combination with #1.

Well, I took the liberty to shoot some picks describing what to do:

I'll go through them step by step:

1 In my opinion, that's about the most natural distance to start at. But it's possible to be a bit closer to the opponent.
2 Then you start running. To do the auto-rar, you have to run.
3 You auto-rar. This is the hardest thing; not to auto-rar, but to time where to do it. If you just time it right, it should be okay. I figure that the best location is where you'd normally jump to sweetspot the fair directly.
4 After the jump, you immediately do the u-air.
5 After that, immediately fastfall.
6 The attack hits...
7 ...and the opponent flies into the air.

If you look at it IRL, you'd understand why I call it the Alley Oop. So if you don't like the name, I'll show you this for real on YouTube when I get my GameBridge.

I know that this probably doesn't apply to too many Zelda users, but since those who c-stick with smashes got an easier time to do sFoster's technique I'd say this is good for the few of us who use the B-stick. I'd also say that this is easier to use since you don't have to aim as much. If you just time your jump right you shold be alright. The negative thing is, I guess, that you have to run to use this....

sForster, if you don't want this post in your thread, just tell me and I'll remove it. Oh, and all credit to you, btw.

 

[Lingy]

You can hit grounded people with uair without fastfalling. The same applies when dealing with smaller / shorter characters though.

 

[PK-ow!]

Okay, so at least we have something to use against grounded opponents. Worries about dair being teh lamez can be somewhat quelled.

The fact remains that you have to long-range this attack, so the opponent's getting hit only if they're extraordinarily inattentive, or if they just don't how to block for some reason.

You can hit grounded people with uair without fastfalling. The same applies when dealing with smaller / shorter characters though.

Ambiguous sentence. Please clarify... you can use on a short character without fastfalling?

So then you could have said you can use this without fastfalling on any character.

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

The fact remains that you have to long-range this attack, so the opponent's getting hit only if they're extraordinarily inattentive, or if they just don't how to block for some reason.

Well, for my version of it, this is true indeed. But the original #1 can be done from everywhere.

The easiest way to use this attack is to stand next to the opponent, jump and do it. But if you like to improvise during the heat of the battle and do it from someplace you haven't really practised, it's really hard to hit by several reason, like timing.

It's true that my version of it, as it is, will be hard to land... I'm working on situations on the field that allows the chances of it working to increase.

The worst thing about this attack, in my opinion, is that it can't hit small characters on the ground... That includes Wolf too - why does he have to crouch? >.<

 

[Lingy]

Ambiguous sentence. Please clarify... you can use on a short character without fastfalling?

So then you could have said you can use this without fastfalling on any character.

When I said the same applies, I meant that it doesn't work on shorter characters.

 

[sFoster]

It's possible to use this like a missle from a regular height jump as well.
It is most effective when used during a fastfall, but while it's possible to land this without the extra speed it is much less effective.

This move is difficult to pull off.. it basically requires a sweet spotting effect.
However, once you get it down this is great.

Zelda finally has something to come down on people with.
This is useful during juggle for example, where you can use it on people right after they land.

It's also great at punishing certain character's moves, such as captain falcon.
When they lunge at you, jump up.

Then fastfall down and plow into them, either killing them or beginning a juggle.
I don't know if this really needs a name, but for stuff like this usually it's better to let a name come naturally.

Whatever works best to call it is what people are going to use in the end.

 

[goodkid]

This is somewhat useful, it would take some practice to do this, and would just be good for punishing mistakes.

 

[popsofctown]

The whole grounded up air sounds pretty special, but, isn't it the same as Nair, except slower and more powerful?
I have enough trouble trying to find someone unreactive enough to eat a SH Nair, how would this be better?

 

[popsofctown]

Sorry, double posting.
I read a couple comments and see this is mostly meant as a punisher, that makes more sense.
I think I'll stick to punishing with my three other deadly aerials though, just cause i'm lazy.

 

[Ztarfish]

#1: I'm a bit skeptical, show it to me used effectively in a real match and i'll get to working on it.

#2: Dsmash is one of your most important moves. Cstick is the easiest way to get to that, it maybe that i don't understand your description of the advantages of B-sticking Din's, but I don't see a point. Especially since you're sacrificing much of Dsmashes coveted speed.

 

[sFoster]

It's true that my version of it, as it is, will be hard to land... I'm working on situations on the field that allows the chances of it working to increase.

It's true that it isn't possible to auto-reverse ariel rush with a c-stick set to smashes.
However it's still possible to preform a RAR, and plenty of people do.

Your version is still a short hop into the move, except you have to press up on the control-pad to active u-smash. By having the c-stick set to smashes instead, you can still make yourself face the other direction if you want to (even though it's a vertical attack) and it's much easier to land because you can actually fastfall and direct yourself at the same time.

This is yet another reason why the smash stick setting is superior.

The worst thing about this attack, in my opinion, is that it can't hit small characters on the ground... That includes Wolf too - why does he have to crouch? >.<

It's fairly easy to hit wolf, there is nothing to it but a sweet spot..
Yes he can crouch, and pretty much any character can duck to avoid this.

It's funny that ducking becomes a defense, but they have to really see this move coming.
Generally I find it is more useful as a surprise.

 

[sFoster]

The whole grounded up air sounds pretty special, but, isn't it the same as Nair, except slower and more powerful?
I have enough trouble trying to find someone unreactive enough to eat a SH Nair, how would this be better?

Risk vs reward..
This starts a juggle, does 15 damage and can possibly KO.

Landing a NAIR on top of somebody will do like 6 damage most of the time, doesn't lead into a juggle and generally won't ko.

If people are really set on names, then I will call it kinky betch slapping, or KBS for short.
Usually the U-Air hits from above, but you're doing it from the opposite end with this move and therefore it's kinky. And it's a betch slap because the damage boxes connect around her fist.

 

[sFoster]

bump because I added two more techniques of mine ..

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

This is yet another reason why the smash stick setting is superior.

Yes, but I simply posted this because my way is easier to pull of if you use the B-stick (even though due to my intense training, I'm almost as good with the original version) and I feel that there should always be some alternative ways of doing things, for surprises etc.

Edit: After training more with the original thing, I came to understand that I missed some crucial things... So my version is a little bit unnescessary, I agree. I jumped on things a little too fast. >.<

But still, I think it's a little easier to hit with this one - for me at least... Since I sometimes fail to short hop when I want to, but that's just lack of quality I guess. Also for my defense, I think this is Zelda's coolest technique... It really looks like she's Alley ooping. ^^

About your new additions... I really like the Dinjin's Edge Guard. I'll definately add it to my game, awesome find! :D

 

[sFoster]

Haha well I can't fault anybody for style points with Zelda.

As for the dinjin edge guard.. I was screwing around and doing that just for the style at first lol.
Trying to look cool, and just play around when suddenly I realized how useful it was by doubling the hit box and damage.

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

I was wondering about the hitbox doubling and damage... Does Din's damage less the farther away it goes - and does the hitbox decrease? I thought that I'd read all of the things about Din's, but I can't remember hearing anything about that. Sorry if this is n00by of me again. =/

 

[S2]

Din's increases in damage the farther it goes.

But the knockback/damage on it is so good naturally that it doesn't matter all that much, its good regardless of when you release it.

 

[blink777]

I wanna see someone come out and slap you during your "DinJin" while you're out double jumping off the edge. Top points for style though ^^.

 

[sFoster]

You don't jump off the edge, you jump away from it.

(enemy floating in air) [edge of level] (Zelda on Ground) ---> Jumps In this direction <--- returns back in this direction

your fireball explodes around the same time that the enemy gets to the edge, and you land right next to the edge where you were before.

Around 150 a full range dins will ko another zelda even if they are standing on the ground.
A no-charge din's will only knock them up in the air for a juggle.

The thing I like the most about it though is the increase in hitbox size.
Just stand at the end of FD in training and see, not the size of the fireball as it travels, but the size of the explosion that it creates at each distance.

The is a white circle that is created when it explodes, and it is huge at the end distances.
This is perfect for counter air dodgers, because you can hit them both in front and behind.

The reason it's so each to catch people with the back end of dins at maximum range is because the hitbox of the explosion is huge by that point.

 

[sFoster]

S2 was more accurate than me about the nayru's, saying there aren't as many applications.

I tested nayru's running at full speed, and it DOES reverse your momentum, though it also significantly lowers it at the same time.

This could actually be pretty useful if somebody is chasing after you.

Not only are you getting a slight bit of reverse momentum, but more importantly you're no longer falling AWAY for your opponent, so with the two of those things combined it's not a bad spacing tool for close quarters combat.

Tricky to pull off, however, since it requires a neutral-b though.

 

[sFoster]

I got off some amazing U-Air's on standing opponents today.
After like .. a month, I can finally start doing this some of the time in combat haha.

It is absolutely AMAZING, I must say. And it feels great.
I was playing against a snake and it shield stabbed him for the KO lol

Man that has to be frustrating