Attempt to make Bowser better

[_Falco_]

I have an idea on how to make bowser more balanced.

If Bowser has low % (50 and under or so) hits cause no Hit Stun
Kind of like a star but he still takes damage or (kind of) like Yoshi's second jump

Any thoughts on this?

i think it would be a great way to improve bowser

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

More speed, less lag.

Yeah, I like the "no stun from weak attacks" thing.

Until wii meet again,
Wii4Mii 99

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Get rid of Giga Bowser as the Final, it's taking up up the Clown Car's spot.

 

[_Phloat_]

Lol

Great idea, and welcome to the forums!

I think this would be great, because bowers loves attrition, and this would help him..

Like smashboards so far

 

[Modest_Egoist]

He has the "no stun from weak attacks" to a certain degree in Melee. If you exchange weak attacks with an opponent, Bowser deals more damage. His main problem is speed. Sure, L-canceling does help a bit, but his movement overall were made too slow.

Also, they gotta make him heavier. Since he is such a big target, he tends to get knocked around easily by speedy chars like Fox and Falco. Maybe if he was heavier, it would be harder for those chars to knock him out and give Bowser more of a chance in fights.

 

[_Falco_]

yea its alot better here

over at GameFAQs the brawl board is 70% joke topics 30% is spinoffs of joke topics and the rest is smart well thought out disscussions

people look alot smarter over here

 

[_Phloat_]

yea its alot better here

over at GameFAQs the brawl board is 70% joke topics 30% is spinoffs of joke topics and the rest is smart well thought out disscussions

people look alot smarter over here

Looks are decieving...

 

[_Phloat_]

He has the "no stun from weak attacks" to a certain degree in Melee. If you exchange weak attacks with an opponent, Bowser deals more damage. His main problem is speed. Sure, L-canceling does help a bit, but his movement overall were made too slow.

Also, they gotta make him heavier. Since he is such a big target, he tends to get knocked around easily by speedy chars like Fox and Falco. Maybe if he was heavier, it would be harder for those chars to knock him out and give Bowser more of a chance in fights.

Sorry for double post, just saw this..

No, he means NO hitstun, that means if you are charging a smash no one could interfere with that unless they did a lot of damage quickly..

He would be harder to combo for a while this way, thus making him better at attrition, his style of play.

Heavier!?have you gone mad? Imagine shiek's tilt combos on him if he was heavier!

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

ooph what a delightful idea...

unfortunately if Bowser's huge target size and
weight (includes smaller drifting) comes to
sense... then Bowser will be the perfect combo
sand-bag...

Unless if you gots the smarts and quickness to
start off your own combos

 

[Sariku]

No.

Man, I have to type 10 letters atleast...

No.

 

[_Phloat_]

ooph what a delightful idea...

unfortunately if Bowser's huge target size and
weight (includes smaller drifting) comes to
sense... then Bowser will be the perfect combo
sand-bag...

Unless if you gots the smarts and quickness to
start off your own combos

It would be harder to combo, because unless you do 50% damage fast, he can just fortress or even D-smash you away... No hit stun = no stun..

No.

Man, I have to type 10 letters atleast...

No.

I will use your style of argument.

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

4 yesses, I win..

Anyways, do you people here understand before you comment, shesh..

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

It would be harder to combo, because unless you do 50% damage fast, he can just fortress or even D-smash you away... No hit stun = no stun..

Ahh, yes i understand that some ways of thinking of combos will not work... but as long
as you understand the concept of drifting... then you won't be in range...

Then when bowser counters and misses, punish him and counter with another set of attacks... rinse and repeat if you need to

 

[ZeldaFox38]

Hmm. I guess the only thing I could think of is making him toss further. I'm not saying like MewTwo lengths or anything, but a couple of more feet would be nice.

The only reason I'm thinking this is because of his grab and bite (B->) attack. It's satisfying, but not enough to be that useful. Know what I mean?

Other than that, nothing that hasn't been mentioned before. Just general physics tweeks to keep him in character.

Although, I think it would be amusing if Mario could pick him up by the tail and chuck him. :D

 

[_Phloat_]

First off, talk about what he said XD

I can see you are a bowser lover, check this out.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT94NWzXVX0

Yeah, his throws would be better shorter, it would make him able to combo better, which he needs a bit more than throw distance.. IMO, but this vid shows why a little.

 

[_Phloat_]

Another thing to add, people are suggesting that instead of buffing up the low tiers, we lower the high tiers.. I think that idea is really dumb, because that would slow the game down.. At least admit you don't like to watch Jigglypuff dittos!!!

Anyways, I like the idea of your's falco, bowser needs to be seen in tournaments, MORE THAN ONE OF THEM

GRRR

Bump >__>

 

[_Falco_]

yea jigglypuff dittos are about as fun as getting throw-rest comboed by jigglypuff 4 times in your first tourney ( im a falco )

Note: i couldnt DI worth Crap back then.....

although seeing Kish and Chozen do a jigglypuff ditto was pretty neat i guess

 

[_Phloat_]

I saw that happen to you, I wanted to cry!

Did you know it is impossible to cry while laughing, I learned this that day...

DI backwards, she can only WOP you after that..

Then she will grab you again, lol, have fast reactions dammit..

 

[_Falco_]

Boooooooooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!

i hate jiggles sometimes....

she is good though..

 

[_Phloat_]

No, you hate chozen one all the time =P

 

[xenogears23]

bowser need to be not as easily knocked off balance and HEAVIER

he needs to not be able to be knocked out of the screen until he reaches a higher percentage than ANYONE ELSE

also they should get rid of his fire breath and insert a projectile fireball or something of that nature---he;s so big and bulky it;s not easy for him to move around and he needs a move he can use at a far range so he can keep enemy's at bay to give him time to recover or set up a combo. also bowser originally had a fireball in the mario games...

it makes the most sense

unfortunately it looks like the fire breath is staying however

lets see what happens with his weight tho

top tiers shouldn't;t be brought down....weaker players just need to be given more strengths

 

[Mithrandir]

But if Bowser gets above the 50 % he'll get owned, immediatly.
So when Bowser up against an enemy with a long-range weapon, that enemy will just runaway and attack untill Bowser has enough damage.

A Bowser that doesn't get stunned sounds terrifying, though.

 

[_Phloat_]

bowser need to be not as easily knocked off balance and HEAVIER

he needs to not be able to be knocked out of the screen until he reaches a higher percentage than ANYONE ELSE

also they should get rid of his fire breath and insert a projectile fireball or something of that nature---he;s so big and bulky it;s not easy for him to move around and he needs a move he can use at a far range so he can keep enemy's at bay to give him time to recover or set up a combo. also bowser originally had a fireball in the mario games...

it makes the most sense

unfortunately it looks like the fire breath is staying however

lets see what happens with his weight tho

top tiers shouldn't;t be brought down....weaker players just need to be given more strengths

I agree fully, with everything you said... He always seemed like a character that camped to me, even moreso than peach, and his current playstyle doesn't feel like a bowser type of playstyle..

Although, what would he throw, fireballs sounds to mario-ish..

Either way, welcome to the forums, having fun?

But if Bowser gets above the 50 % he'll get owned, immediatly.
So when Bowser up against an enemy with a long-range weapon, that enemy will just runaway and attack untill Bowser has enough damage.

A Bowser that doesn't get stunned sounds terrifying, though.

He gets owned immediatly at any damage does not sound like a better thing! This is just another affect he would have, It wont make him lower in anything else, just no knockback or stun. And what you said about the running, that is true with any character against bowser, and besides, if they could do it to 50% then they could do it even higher to garuantee the kill..

That is how bum lost one of his tournaments (He mains a very good DK) He lost to a decent at best fox that ran away and laser spammed.

Also, It is about time bowser sounded terrifying to someone, gosh

Welcome to the boards, having fun?

 

[RoadsArePoison]

I was thinking maybe if Bowser needs to take two or three consecutive hits before he gets stunned at all. That could give him time to hit characters who attack much faster than him.

It would also be nice if he were immune (or resistant) to throwing, since he can get chained by certain characters pretty easily. I know this may seem like an unfair advantage but Bowser as he is right now sucks hard. I would love to see competitive Bowser that could stand up to Fox.

 

[h2ownage]

So, if he's in the middle of an attack and gets hits at 20% by, for example a missile, he will continue to do his attack?
What the ****?

 

[OysterMeister]

It'd be fun if Bowser' spikes delt damage on contact. Minor damage, no more than 1-2%, and no knockback. It wouldn't be any kind of deal breaker, but it might deter quite a few backstabbers, and it would make Bowser chasing you that much scarier, seeing as he wouldn't even have to land a hit.

I think his fire needs to be fast or have greater range, one of the two.... preferably range. But mostly, Bowser just needs some decent shielding and dodging. His Rolls don't take him anywhere NEAR as far as they should, and he's so big that the shield gives out too soon. As it stands right now, he's a big target with too few options when it comes to avoiding damage.

 

[_Phloat_]

So, if he's in the middle of an attack and gets hits at 20% by, for example a missile, he will continue to do his attack?
What the ****?

Yes, It makes sense because these things just destroy him now, and he is supposed to be like a tank, big strong, and hard to stop!

It'd be fun if Bowser' spikes delt damage on contact. Minor damage, no more than 1-2%, and no knockback. It wouldn't be any kind of deal breaker, but it might deter quite a few backstabbers, and it would make Bowser chasing you that much scarier, seeing as he wouldn't even have to land a hit.

I think his fire needs to be fast or have greater range, one of the two.... preferably range. But mostly, Bowser just needs some decent shielding and dodging. His Rolls don't take him anywhere NEAR as far as they should, and he's so big that the shield gives out too soon. As it stands right now, he's a big target with too few options when it comes to avoiding damage.

Lol, I would love that, D-throw to dash dance anyone XD

That is if his D-throw knocks them into the air like some characters do...

Ah well, I just hope they make him better some way, he is just not as good, even the bowser tournament mains can agree with me on that, he just is not as good..

Maybe if he had the range of a DK and the power he is at now. Hopefully the range would be forwards, not like a B-air, but begars can't be choosers

 

[Enlong]

Get rid of Giga Bowser as the Final, it's taking up up the Clown Car's spot.

Well, I think that the Giga Bowser transformation is okay. If we really want the Clown Car, then it should be Bowser's entrance, you know, like they had in Smash Brothers 64. Or maybe I just really want them to have entrances again, I don't know.

 

[saud]

It'd be fun if Bowser' spikes delt damage on contact. Minor damage, no more than 1-2%, and no knockback. It wouldn't be any kind of deal breaker, but it might deter quite a few backstabbers, and it would make Bowser chasing you that much scarier, seeing as he wouldn't even have to land a hit.

That would be so much fun in Stamina Mode. I can imagine it, when my opponent has low health he wouldn't dare get near me and I will have to chase him down xD

 

[xenogears23]

Let me clarify my statement about giving bowser a fireball--

it;s not for throwing--


it would come out of his mouth

so it wouldn't be too mario-ish

also it would not bounce or anything like that---it would propel forward straight and FAST

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/3923/bowsersmb1ce0.png" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a><br/>Shot at 2007-07-11

surely we've all seen that

anyways yeh

hope that clears it all up

 

[xenogears23]

whoopsies....

bad link

just go there

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/1/13/Bowser_(smb1).png

 

[SHINE FX]

But we've already seen Bowser's fire breath in Brawl >_>

 

[xenogears23]

It'd be fun if Bowser' spikes delt damage on contact. Minor damage, no more than 1-2%, and no knockback. It wouldn't be any kind of deal breaker, but it might deter quite a few backstabbers, and it would make Bowser chasing you that much scarier, seeing as he wouldn't even have to land a hit.

I think his fire needs to be fast or have greater range, one of the two.... preferably range. But mostly, Bowser just needs some decent shielding and dodging. His Rolls don't take him anywhere NEAR as far as they should, and he's so big that the shield gives out too soon. As it stands right now, he's a big target with too few options when it comes to avoiding damage.

yeh man great point...i hadn't even thought about his shielding ability...

if he had a bigger roll that would certainly help him out and a bigger shield is totally in order

just make it more proportionate to the other characters and i think that would be great

maybe if he could just jump a little higher also--

he really does have too few options to avoid damage

 

[xenogears23]

tell me if you think this is crazy....but what if bowser wasn't able to be hit from the back?

like you could hit his tail or feet or the back of his head...but his shell would be invulnerable

i mean....i know that sounds drastic...but i think it would give him a serious edge...he;s SO large...and he has so much of an area to get hit---he needs to have his hit zone be decreased and the best way to narrow that area would be to make his shell not be able to take damage --and maybe instead of even having a regular shield he could retreat quickly into his shell to protect himself and slide to the side to do a dodge--

besides look at his fricken shell! it;s covered in deadly spikes!

who could hit that and come away without a bloody nub for a hand ?

infact someone suggested having the spikes cause damage...that might just be enough to make you avoid his back side---giving the same results

I'm really interested to hear opinions on this

i mean i can;t see it happening for brawl...but what does everyone think?

 

[the grim lizard]

Why did you bump this? The original Bowser improvement thread (which was a lot better by the way) was already locked.

Yeah, he needs just one improvement... >_>

More speed, less lag.

wrong wrong wrong
Stop using the same dumb formula. The solution to everything isn't "Make him more like Fox/Sheik/Marth."



Much better ideas:

The answer to fixing Bowser is not improving his speed or even necessarily his lag. Bowser is designed to be a slow war machine. How did the developers go wrong?

They made speed characters to strong. Bowser's reward for having slow, laggy attacks is SUPPOSE to be great knockback and attack power. But this is ruined when Fox can pull of his aerial up A or Up Smash with less startup time and lag and STILL have it be a more powerful attack.

So this is how to improve Bowser.

1. Speed characters do not have stronger moves then Bowser that are also faster with more range and less lag time.

2. Some moves that Bowser has can go through sheilds (his Smash and down B)

3. Bowser takes less stun. Just because speed characters are fast doesn't mean they should be able to take a hit better. If you hit a cheetah with a bat, you will probably break most of its ribs and send it to the floor. If you hit a bear with a bat, it will get pissed off and decapitate you without blinking.

4. His firebreath should have no after lag. That way if you cannot DI out of it, it will drag you toward Bowser who could then immediately perform an attack. Remember his attacks will still be fairly slow, so this is not broken as people might think.

 

[joepinion]

Good ideas there from Bowserlick.

I'm all for his shell coming into play in some form.

For real, how can a rock hard back with enormous spikes not make any difference? And he's the only character with something like that. (I think.. right?)

 

[poishrom]

I just wish Bowser was a little bit faster than he was on mele so he can kick but faster!

 

[Cancel]

If bowser was alot faster I would choose him.

 

[S_B]

3. Bowser takes less stun. Just because speed characters are fast doesn't mean they should be able to take a hit better. If you hit a cheetah with a bat, you will probably break most of its ribs and send it to the floor. If you hit a bear with a bat, it will get pissed off and decapitate you without blinking.

Yes, yes, yes.

I think Bowser shouldn't stun to weak attacks, period. If Bowser is in the middle of a smash attack and Fox kicks him in the knee, he shouldn't immediately flinch out of the smash attack.

In fact, I think attack strength vs. character weight should be taken into account across the board, whereas flinches won't even happen unless the attack overpowers that character's weight value. If Pichu does a neutral A, all it will be good for is applying damage, it wouldn't make hardly any character flinch except for lightweights.

IMHO, Melee could have been balanced if this rule was simply applied.

It's sad: in Bowser's trophy, it suggests that the best way to attack him is straight on. This should be the exact OPPOSITE way Bowser should be attacked. Bowser should be fought by lots of small, quick attacks delivered from range as the player then runs out of the way to avoid retaliation.

 

[Spartan_187]

Yeah, all I want is that bowser doesn't get stunned from weak attacks and that he would be faster