[AT] Run Stop Cancel

[Yikarur]

Hy guys; I was at gamescom the last 5 days and I played way too much Smash 4 and I have discovered few things.

One thing deserved his own thread: I call it "Run Stop Cancel".

A lot of people have complained that you still cannot crouch while you're running to have every option in your run.

In the Demo, you can basically put the stick to neutral for a short moment to activate the run stop and you can cancel that same run stop into any ground move. So you can run -> fsmash, run -> dsmash, run -> ftilt
There is no real lag between run and the move. It basically replaces crouch out of run.

This plus the pivot cancel makes Smash 4 to a great game with a lot of ground options.

I really love this game and I'm really looking forward to it

 

[TimeSmash]

Hy guys; I was at gamescom the last 5 days and I played way too much Smash 4 and I have discovered few things.

One thing deserved his own thread: I call it "Run Stop Cancel".

A lot of people have complained that you still cannot crouch while you're running to have every option in your run.

In the Demo, you can basically put the stick to neutral for a short moment to activate the run stop and you can cancel that same run stop into any ground move. So you can run -> fsmash, run -> dsmash, run -> ftilt
There is no real lag between run and the move. It basically replaces crouch out of run.

This plus the pivot cancel makes Smash 4 to a great game with a lot of ground options.

I really love this game and I'm really looking forward to it

So the animation where they stop running can be cancelled? Neat!!

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

I heard Bowser could do this in Brawl. Does it work with every character now? If so, that's awesome! (Pls let Luigi do it.)

 

[DeiSakuChris]

This is sweet.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Oh man, would you look at this? We're already discovering some amazing and useful advanced techniques. <3
This game is going to be so freaking awesome!!

 

[TimeSmash]

I just thought of something. Depending on how short your run stop animation is, you could use this exploit to pseudo-wavedash and combo (probably at low percents). Like runstop->ftilt->runstop->dtilt.

Although most ground moves do enough knockback to put you in the air enough to escape. Just a thoght though

 

[Renji64]

Any gif or footage of this?

 

[Exegguter]

Isn't this just a generic fox-trot?

 

[Yikarur]

I got no one to hold my camera while I was playing :/
bus it looks really well. I'm amazed. I hope it will still be in the final version.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Any gif or footage of this?

Watch VGBootCamp's moveset videos for Bowser and Marth. You can see them do it there.

 

[TimeSmash]

I'd love if someone could post the gifs in question here, too

 

[ibmutt]

The technique was definitely in Brawl at least as shown below.

From analysis, I'm fairly certain Bowser's stopping IASA is 8 frames which is faster than Brawl's 14 frames. So "run stop cancelling" could be useful for him at least. From playing the demo, some IASA's felt fairly similar to Brawl's and some characters like WFT and Luigi's had late IASA's. Although that is just a vague impression.

 

[Yikarur]

it's fluent in Smash 4. You don't even see the run stop if you do it correctly.

 

[Devil G.]

Nice stuff, good job.

 

[ibmutt]

it's fluent in Smash 4. You don't even see the run stop if you do it correctly.

Which characters did you test this with? I could be wrong about my impression of the other characters and gladly too.

If you're talking about Bowser as well, I think seven frames of stopping lag is fast - perception wise. If you want a slight overestimate of it, set the video I shown above to double speed and observe Bowser. Is that close to what you remember?

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

This has just been a thought, since I haven't played the game...

What if it's possible to use shield to cancel your dash? It looks like the shield drop rate is a lot quicker in Smash 4, and you can act out of shield quickly as well.

I figured that if it's possible to cancel a dash with your shield in this game, you could quickly perform an attack once you've cancelled.

Once again, this is just something I thought about for a little bit. Don't kill me.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Whewwww this is gonna be awesome. Neat find bro!

 

[HeavyLobster]

This has just been a thought, since I haven't played the game...

What if it's possible to use shield to cancel your dash? It looks like the shield drop rate is a lot quicker in Smash 4, and you can act out of shield quickly as well.

I figured that if it's possible to cancel a dash with your shield in this game, you could quickly perform an attack once you've cancelled.

Once again, this is just something I thought about for a little bit. Don't kill me.

Other people have noticed this. We'll need frame data to see which one is faster and this will determine which one is used. It appears that IASA frames for run-stop animation vary from character to character, so one method might be faster for some characters and slower for others.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

This has just been a thought, since I haven't played the game...

What if it's possible to use shield to cancel your dash? It looks like the shield drop rate is a lot quicker in Smash 4, and you can act out of shield quickly as well.

I figured that if it's possible to cancel a dash with your shield in this game, you could quickly perform an attack once you've cancelled.

Once again, this is just something I thought about for a little bit. Don't kill me.

It's been confirmed that you can use a shield to cancel a dash. But yes, the real question is whether shield drops are fast enough to make it practical to do so.

 

[SS-bros14]

Cool!
I think this was known for a while actually...

 

[TimeSmash]

It's been confirmed that you can use a shield to cancel a dash. But yes, the real question is whether shield drops are fast enough to make it practical to do so.

Would jumping out of shield be an adequate solution? I guess that depends too.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Would jumping out of shield be an adequate solution? I guess that depends too.

In theory, I'd say so. However, it should come as no surprise that some characters would get much more mileage out of cancelling a dash with jump OoS than others. Little Mac probably would never use it.

 

[Gidy]

Haters: It's Brawl 2.0

Me:

 

[Remzi]

What you're describing sounds amazing, but I wanna see video of it. Does it seem as significant as crouch canceled dashes in Melee?

 

[TimeSmash]

In theory, I'd say so. However, it should come as no surprise that some characters would get much more mileage out of cancelling a dash with jump OoS than others. Little Mac probably would never use it.

BAHAH I forget his aerials are like, nothing. But if jump-cancelled stuff is still in, or being able to UpSmash OoS, that could be good.
I've never played Smash 4 or the demo, so this is all conjecture

 

[SS-bros14]

Haters: It's Brawl 2.0

Me:

So true. Watch some people still call it Brawl 2.0 just because it's not like Melee or something.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

BAHAH I forget his aerials are like, nothing. But if jump-cancelled stuff is still in, or being able to UpSmash OoS, that could be good.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Up Smash and Up B. This just keeps sounding better and better!

So for those asking, I made a GIF.

You can see there's a slight pause before Bowser crouches (which is the stopping animation, duh). It serves a similar function to the Melee dash-cancelling. It's honestly amazing just in what ways this game is between Melee and Brawl. You can crouch to cancel a dash...! sorta. Ah well, good enough for me. I'm impressed.

 

[Gidy]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Up Smash and Up B. This just keeps sounding better and better!

So for those asking, I made a GIF.

You can see there's a slight pause before Bowser crouches (which is the stopping animation, duh). It serves a similar function to the Melee dash-cancelling. It's honestly amazing just in what ways this game is between Melee and Brawl. You can crouch to cancel a dash...! sorta. Ah well, good enough for me. I'm impressed.

Wow... I can see this being difficult on the 3DS Version with the lack of a C-Stick but this is really solid.

 

[pizzapie7]

Nice find.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

BAHAH I forget his aerials are like, nothing. But if jump-cancelled stuff is still in, or being able to UpSmash OoS, that could be good.
I've never played Smash 4 or the demo, so this is all conjecture

I have this odd feeling that Little Mac's NAir will see use in combos. Not for starting combos or for approaching, but for stringing ground moves into other ground moves that otherwise wouldn't be able to combo properly. You'd get some combo going, then short-hop and do like 3 consecutive NAirs, land near-lagless and resume ground combos.

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

Nice find.

I think we can find an example of this in the April Direct.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7xUWnQu2Grs
5:03 in the bottom right corner, WFT dashes at bowser and F-smashes.

There's like a frame or two of WFT's dash stop animation before the F-smash comes out.

 

[WwwWario]

Great find! My hopes for Smash 4 to be competitive has grown alot! With these run-cancel tecniques, and the one where you can instantly turn around and attack during dash without doing the sliding-turn animation - my hopes are high! Wondering if we'll see more advances tecniques as we explore the game

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Up Smash and Up B. This just keeps sounding better and better!

So for those asking, I made a GIF.

You can see there's a slight pause before Bowser crouches (which is the stopping animation, duh). It serves a similar function to the Melee dash-cancelling. It's honestly amazing just in what ways this game is between Melee and Brawl. You can crouch to cancel a dash...! sorta. Ah well, good enough for me. I'm impressed.

Interesting.

 

[victinivcreate1]

So we confirmed fox trotting?

 

[Egg-Off the Conquerer]

EDIT: nvmn, misread the OP

 

[JV5Chris]

Isn't this just a generic fox-trot?

So we confirmed fox trotting?

To quote the Melee it on Me very early impressions posted the day of the invitational after 2 or so hours with the game:

– Pivot tilts are easy. Foxtrot is possible (F-Smash out of fox trot).

Funny how in 12 words they alluded to the two techniques people seem the most interested in now.

 

[PingPongCop]

EDIT: All the info I posted was wrong... sorry

 

[Renji64]

A ray of hope has appeared.

 

[Yikarur]

Oh my! What a nice find!
We've already got Pivot Cancelling, which is pretty neat IMO. Watch the first ten seconds of the Sonic Reveal here to see Mario make some use of it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QREyxpuYeGU

Thats a pivot grab; that was already possible in Brawl

Now we got the "Run Stop Cancel", which is awesome! Watch Yoshi do it here at 2:43. He doesn't seem to make good use of it, but still, he dashed and immediately stopped and shielded. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHYakDYtI98

You could shield out of the run every smash game so far.

The technic I explained is not about IASA frames.
You can ftilt, dtilt, fsmash etc. out of the run with no visible lag.

 

[PingPongCop]

Thats a pivot grab; that was already possible in Brawl



You could shield out of the run every smash game so far.

The technic I explained is not about IASA frames.
You can ftilt, dtilt, fsmash etc. out of the run with no visible lag.

Welp, just goes to show ya how much I know about AT's.