At melee's end? I don't think so.

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Haha, I -really- don't think brawls gonna be better than melee as a tournament game guys. Itll be fun but it looks way watered down. My prediction is melee pros are going to get bored of brawl after they figure out everything about it and go back to melee.

Just a prediction though, but I'm well known for my anti brawl attitude by now so meh. I like melee too much, the thought of any game being better than it is a logical impossiblity.

If it's a logical impossibility that Brawl can be better, have you considered that it might be just as good? Yes, Brawl looks watered down on the surface, but I think it will turn out just as deep as melee. After all there is a team working on brawl that played melee so much that "the paint on their GCN controllers was worn off like an old eraser." We're among smashers here. They wouldn't make brawl a huge nub fest, just a small nub fest that's also slightly competetive.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

If it's a logical impossibility that Brawl can be better, have you considered that it might be just as good? Yes, Brawl looks watered down on the surface, but I think it will turn out just as deep as melee. After all there is a team working on brawl that played melee so much that "the paint on their GCN controllers was worn off like an old eraser." We're among smashers here. They wouldn't make brawl a huge nub fest, just a small nub fest that's also slightly competetive.

Hmm good point. Wanna know why Im nervous though? Ikes up B. This ''no flinching thing'' its crouch cancelling, but its automatic. thats not a big deal but im afraid thats going to apply all around, making things automatic instead of a skill you have to earn, and furthermore eliminating the possiblity of missing your tech, which is what smash is all about, punishing the other guys mistakes....

Not to mention links hookshot recovery aims itself automatically now, and you can hold down A rather than press it to do jabs.

These 3 things arent a big deal, but they hint at a darker truth... the complete nubification of super smash melee in the spirit of the nintendo's wiis new philosophy ''Easier games sell better, that way old people will buy them too''

Im really pessimistic though I wouldnt go listening to me too much or you'll drive yourself nuts. I pray that brawl will be as good as melee, but I highly doubt it will, on a competitive level...

brawl is going to be amazing fun I cant wait to see all the hard work that went into the design, but the game itself could be ruined forever if it's watered down for newbies.

 

[quam]

i'm just hoping that brawl is going to be similar to melee. but i'm gonna keep playing melee if i can

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Dylan: I will take your advice and try to breath calmly and remember that you're just very pessimistic. I suppose we need a few people like you to balance out all the nubs that go: ZOMG dA BraWlErz will RoCk!!11 Yeah

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Dylan: I will take your advice and try to breath calmly and remember that you're just very pessimistic. I suppose we need a few people like you to balance out all the nubs that go: ZOMG dA BraWlErz will RoCk!!11 Yeah

Or even worse

DEYRE GONNA BALANCE THE BRAWLZ!!! WAHH TIER LIST! nerf everyone!

Balance, please. They have little to no control over balance in a 1v1 setting. Yeah they made kirby and ness a little too weak in melee, lets hope they suck less now. But ya.. balance. Please.

 

[theONEjanitor]

i just hate people who think they've figured out brawl.
like they know exactly how its going to be.



"i dont think brawl will be as good as melee"
"it won't be as deep"

YOU HAVE NO BASIS for those opinions. You have NO IDEA how this game will play. The only thing you know is that it will be similar to melee. And Melee kicks ***.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

i just hate people who think they've figured out brawl.
like they know exactly how its going to be.



"i dont think brawl will be as good as melee"
"it won't be as deep"

YOU HAVE NO BASIS for those opinions. You have NO IDEA how this game will play. The only thing you know is that it will be similar to melee. And Melee kicks ***.

Yes, that's true, but we have updates that point in the direction the game may take. And unless it veers from the path that it looks to be strolling on, Brawl will not be as competitive as Melee.

That's basically all Dylan is trying to say. We're all praying for Brawl. And we all know that it can be as good as Melee. But we're also saying that it may not happen.

Notice that in your first sentence, the person said "I think" Now, if he had reasons to back up his opinion (namely dojo updates) then there's nothing to complain about. And since Dylan was using examples to back up his claim, there's nothing to complain about.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

We don't even know itll be similar to melee. If I knew that for sure than I wouldnt even be nervous, but until I know that things like L cancelling spot dodging and teching aren't removed than I wont rest easy, especially with all these updates about automatic techniques.

As for wavedashing, thats not a game breaker. Its a nice technique but I could learn to play without it. I dont want it gone, but id rather the WD than the L cancel or fastfall, or even spotdodge... They BETTER not have removed techs from this game or so help me god....

@ Witchking_of_Angmar

Thanks man! yah thats exactly what im saying. I dont want to start fights here im just sayin. And im glad to have melee discussion ppl posting in my thread because the brawl section is full of animals who probably couldnt beat my dog in SSBM.

 

[Frozenserpent]

Ideally, brawl is a game similar and different enough so that melee and brawl can both exist. If you look at evo, several games are played, and many ppl crossover from one game to the other. In fact, if you look at it that way, brawl might actually increase the number of melee smashers (although that might be too optimistic), as players who discover there is a competitive scene with brawl crossover to melee, while melee players will still play melee and also pick up brawl. That's what I hope for, at the very least.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Attention, everyone:

Dylan is paranoid. Get over it. Nothing against you, Dylan but you are. He represents our inner fear that Brawl will suck compared to melee, and he voices it for all to hear. Don't get upset. We all know you're thinking the same things deep inside.

There, that should be a warning to everyone. Again, Nothing against you, Dylan, but it's true.

Also, you're welcome. Fights on forums are boring, you can't even punch people, so why start one? It's a waste of time. I know you don't want to start fights. No one does on forums. All people do in forum fights is start calling each other nubz until the topic gets locked, where's the fun in that?

 

[Frozenserpent]

On the contrary, smash drama is very interesting to read in tournament results/discussion. ^^

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

On the contrary, smash drama is very interesting to read in tournament results/discussion. ^^

If you can call:

"you're a nub"
no you are a nub"
you're a bigger nub
"you're the biggest nub!"
Drama. Although, is that what fights are like here? I can only offer my knowledge from Nsider, which, as we all know, was a rats hole infested with nubs.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

*insert trashtalk*

My fox is soooo good

*insert additional trashtalk*

Fights on forums are boring, you can't even punch people, so why start one?

Get this man an award. This post is made of win.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

*insert trashtalk*

My fox is soooo good

*insert additional trashtalk*

At least that's better than Nsider fights. God, I still have nightmares about that place.

 

[4 Aces]

I know exactly what you mean. I started playing advanced level late last year and am still playing it now. It's just that I never got to go to a tourney; I live like no where in Georgia, and my mom wouldn't let me go anywhere, nor do I have the funds.

It's too bad that when Brawl comes out, EVERYONE will forget about Melee and I'd be forced to retire from Melee - at least where I live. I love this game so much, but sometimes I ask myself why I train and try to get good only to have to start over...I'm still going to play this game even when Brawl comes out - least for a good long while.

I was hoping Melee wouldn't die out. There might be some hope yet.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I know exactly what you mean. I started playing advanced level late last year and am still playing it now. It's just that I never got to go to a tourney; I live like no where in Georgia, and my mom wouldn't let me go anywhere, nor do I have the funds.

It's too bad that when Brawl comes out, EVERYONE will forget about Melee and I'd be forced to retire from Melee - at least where I live. I love this game so much, but sometimes I ask myself why I train and try to get good only to have to start over...I'm still going to play this game even when Brawl comes out - least for a good long while.

I was hoping Melee wouldn't die out. There might be some hope yet.

I was worried like you recently, but luckily there is a strong melee scene where I live, and I doubt it will die.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I know exactly what you mean. I started playing advanced level late last year and am still playing it now. It's just that I never got to go to a tourney; I live like no where in Georgia, and my mom wouldn't let me go anywhere, nor do I have the funds.

It's too bad that when Brawl comes out, EVERYONE will forget about Melee and I'd be forced to retire from Melee - at least where I live. I love this game so much, but sometimes I ask myself why I train and try to get good only to have to start over...I'm still going to play this game even when Brawl comes out - least for a good long while.

I was hoping Melee wouldn't die out. There might be some hope yet.

I started playing advanced a few months ago. I think a lot of training from melee will transfer into Brawl, so it won't be completely wasted. I can't go to tourneys either. If there are any in Germany, I don't know about them.

 

[DippnDots]

Dylan I thought you got banned?

 

[Card]

I don't mean to start anything here Dylan but...


From my point of view, right now you sound exactly like;

• a Halo 1 veteran, before the release of Halo 2
• a Marvel vs. Capcom pro, before the release of Marvel vs. Capcom 2
• a Soul Calibur 2 expert, before the release of Soul Calibur 3 (and even 4)
• a Counter-Strike 1.6 master, before the release of Counter-Strike Source
• a Warcraft 2 battle.net wizard, before the release of Warcraft 3
• and heck, I could even say you resemble a Halo 2 professional, before the release of Halo 3

The list goes on and on as well. I could even make reference to remade movies, games, cartoons, etc...

A lot of the above mentioned people said they would never convert... and for a long while they actually didn't. But in the end, they just made the switch. In a sense, you could even say its Human Nature. Smash Melee is then, and Smash Brawl is now. When Smash Brawl is release, practically the entire tournament scene for Smash Melee will end. You might be able to start a tournament for Melee, but that doesn't mean that anyone will come. Popularity of Smash Brawl will ultimately be Melee's downfall. You won't have any competition, or a large group who would be interested in playing for years to come. I know you are expecting Bam, Vwins, Pkm, and all those people to continue playing Smash Melee, but I wouldn't get your hopes too high, because chances are Montreal will be one of the first places to host a Smash Brawl tournament in Canada.

In my opinion, you also really aren't giving Sakurai and his team the credit they deserve. The developpers of Smash Brawl are players who have 10,000+ hours on all their memory cards. Really I am sure for players that passionate, they wouldn't want to "ruin" Brawl by catering it to casual and newbie players.

Nintendo also plays absolutely no part in the development of Smash Brawl. Sora Ltd. is a third party company. Basically all Nintendo does is shovel Cash into their building, and allow them the rights to the various franchises. The fact that Sakurai has made Brawl playable with a gamecube controller, and has OPENLY stated that he prefers playing with a Game Cube controller is testament to that. Just because of that, we can easily tell that this game will keep it's same action as Smash Melee. Perhaps you don't even notice Dylan, but Smash Melee was one of the few fighters to have the saying "Simple to play, Impossible to Master". Smash Melee was INCREDIBLY Casual/Newbie player friendly. I know tons of totaly scrubs who play this game over any of the other fighters. Smash Brawl and Sakurai will keep that exact same attitude.


I know you'll make the switch Dylan, whether it's sooner or later. It is all about Adapting and Moving on. This is Sakurai's last Smash Bros game, and you can bet your last dollar that he's going to put every ounce of effort and energy he's got into this game.

 

[YangKang]

I don't mean to start anything here Dylan but...


From my point of view, right now you sound exactly like;

• a Halo 1 veteran, before the release of Halo 2
• a Marvel vs. Capcom pro, before the release of Marvel vs. Capcom 2
• a Soul Calibur 2 expert, before the release of Soul Calibur 3 (and even 4)
• a Counter-Strike 1.6 master, before the release of Counter-Strike Source
• a Warcraft 2 battle.net wizard, before the release of Warcraft 3
• and heck, I could even say you resemble a Halo 2 professional, before the release of Halo 3

The list goes on and on as well. I could even make reference to remade movies, games, cartoons, etc...

A lot of the above mentioned people said they would never convert... and for a long while they actually didn't. But in the end, they just made the switch. In a sense, you could even say its Human Nature. Smash Melee is then, and Smash Brawl is now. When Smash Brawl is release, practically the entire tournament scene for Smash Melee will end. You might be able to start a tournament for Melee, but that doesn't mean that anyone will come. Popularity of Smash Brawl will ultimately be Melee's downfall. You won't have any competition, or a large group who would be interested in playing for years to come. I know you are expecting Bam, Vwins, Pkm, and all those people to continue playing Smash Melee, but I wouldn't get your hopes too high, because chances are Montreal will be one of the first places to host a Smash Brawl tournament in Canada.

In my opinion, you also really aren't giving Sakurai and his team the credit they deserve. The developpers of Smash Brawl are players who have 10,000+ hours on all their memory cards. Really I am sure for players that passionate, they wouldn't want to "ruin" Brawl by catering it to casual and newbie players.

Nintendo also plays absolutely no part in the development of Smash Brawl. Sora Ltd. is a third party company. Basically all Nintendo does is shovel Cash into their building, and allow them the rights to the various franchises. Just because of that, we can easily tell that this game will keep it's same action as Smash Melee. Perhaps you don't even notice Dylan, but Smash Melee was one of the few fighters to have the saying "Simple to play, Impossible to Master". Smash Melee was INCREDIBLY Casual/Newbie player friendly. I know tons of totaly scrubs who play this game over any of the other fighters. Smash Brawl and Sakurai will keep that exact same attitude.


I know you'll make the switch Dylan, whether it's sooner or later. It is all about Adapting and Moving on. This is Sakurai's last Smash Bros game, and you can bet your last dollar that he's going to put every ounce of effort and energy he's got into this game.

This post is made of win. I totally agree with you.

 

[BigRick]

Hmm good point. Wanna know why Im nervous though? Ikes up B. This ''no flinching thing'' its crouch cancelling, but its automatic.

hmm I don't agree with you here.

The no flinching thing has been added to Ike's up+B only for animation purposes. At the start of his move he tosses his sword up in the air, remember? If you could knock him away while his sword is up there, what would happen to the sword? Would it simply disappear? Or would the sword fall to the floor and Ike would have to pick it from the ground?

Lazy Sakurai, he just didn't want to think about all of this... lol

Also, I wouldn't say that ''super armor'' is like crouch canceling, because let me show you the difference:

- when you crouch cancel, you don't commit to an attack... you can choose to do whatever you want but you must be careful because your must try to beat your opponent's next move
- when doing Ike's up+b, you might get hit and not flinch, but you must continue with the up+b, you cannot modify your course of action!

- so you might want to use that kind of no flinch move in order to outprioritize your opponent's attack, but if he doesn't... then he gets a free hit

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

hmm I don't agree with you here.

The no flinching thing has been added to Ike's up+B only for animation purposes. At the start of his move he tosses his sword up in the air, remember? If you could knock him away while his sword is up there, what would happen to the sword? Would it simply disappear? Or would the sword fall to the floor and Ike would have to pick it from the ground?

Lazy Sakurai, he just didn't want to think about all of this... lol

Also, I wouldn't say that ''super armor'' is like crouch canceling, because let me show you the difference:

- when you crouch cancel, you don't commit to an attack... you can choose to do whatever you want but you must be careful because your must try to beat your opponent's next move
- when doing Ike's up+b, you might get hit and not flinch, but you must continue with the up+b, you cannot modify your course of action!

- so you might want to use that kind of no flinch move in order to outprioritize your opponent's attack, but if he doesn't... then he gets a free hit

Exactly. Also, it says that many heavier character have moves like this, so we may see a heavy character in higher tiers in Brawl. Personally, I find that cool. Bowser for top tier.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

lets be realistic here, as my friends and I like to say after bowser wins

BOWSER FOR LOW TIER!!!

 

[BigRick]

I want Bowser to be broken, cause I really like the bad guys.

Sakurai is clearly trying to make him stronger... look at his improved ftilt muhaha!

I would probably play him much more often if he wasn't that crappy.

Bowser/Mew2/Ganon for top tier

 

[ProfessorX]

I think tiers blow

But that is beside the point. Dylan TNGA, you are, as Chibi said, someone reluctant to change. I know Brawl will be amazing, as it comes out on my b-day. Kidding. Sakurai is going to flood this game with all of his creativity, hard work, and every last bit of energy the poor man has in him. That will make this game rock.
And BigRick, I am all for Ganon as top tier (If such things exist in the land of Brawl.)

 

[ProfessorX]

And yes, Brawl does come out on my birthday *laughs at nubs*.

 

[linkw00t]

Nice to know, I'm moving to brawl. Everyone knows that Melee isn't simply going to die off just because there is a new game. Did you ever play Soul Calibur 2?

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Nice to know, I'm moving to brawl. Everyone knows that Melee isn't simply going to die off just because there is a new game. Did you ever play Soul Calibur 2?

Yeah I know melee wont die. I just dont like the name of the tournament ''at melees end'' and I took it a bit too seriously, after reading the reactions in this thread I dont think many melee players are gonna quit.

I might go to at melees end.. if I can afford the plane

 

[Oskurito]

I want Bowser to be broken, cause I really like the bad guys.

I've heard he doesn't flinch that's really broken...

 

[Desh.]

im thinking that yes (unfortunately seeing as i too am attending now one of my first few tourneys =[ ) melees competitive scene will decrease but at the same token SIMPLY because of the online play there wont be as big of a brawl scene as there previously has been a melee one... i mean...i gaurantee u brawls scene might get to ...maybe 3 quarters of what melees was/is or w.e and most simply because a lot of people will just host tournies online =/ or just play ...and im positive that brawls scene will be not much of a deal compared to what melees was for a # of other reasons but i dont want to get into that....unfortunately i should've started entering tourneys a long time ago...thats what happens when u woos out xD

 

[Metà]

I'll be playing Brawl seriously when it comes out, but I'll also dedicate some time every week to keep my Melee skills up. Melee is just too ****ing good to give up.

 

[BigRick]

I've heard he doesn't flinch that's really broken...

Actually we don't know...

We don't know if Bowser has any of these ''no-flinch'' moves

And we don't know if these moves will suck or not

 

[smashking06]

I dont think melee is really going to end. it is still going to be alive. just 2 weeks ago i took out my n64 and played sm64 for hours. Besides since you could play gamecube games on the wii i would just pop in melee just for fun. ssbm is just to much of a good game to stop playing. Some ppl might say that they wont play it or have any tournaments but everyonce in a while they are going to have an urge to play ssbm.

 

[no. 1 smash daddy]

I don´t think melee will die completly but probally it is going to be played less, you have an example with smash 64, there still players that play that game.

 

[sugarpoultry]

They still have 64 tournaments. Its rare, but they do.

 

[brg]

As long as samus is as great and scrubs complain about her "cheapness" ill be ok with it.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I've heard he doesn't flinch that's really broken...

He probably only holds his ground at low damage. Otherwise, he will fly just like everyone else.

 

[Takeshi245]

Brawl's going to get a lot of attention, Dylan. That's expected. If Brawl is as good (or better) as I believe it will be, I'll rarely play Melee. Eventually, many people will convert to the Brawl side and then it'll be complete. *Star Wars rip-off*

 

[shipoffools]

giga bowser doesnt flinch. as for bowser..havent heard of that. ill still play melee, guarenteed. im not all hardcore into melee like some people, but ill still play it, especially since i can play it on the wii and none of those hassels.

 

[MASAHIROx]

dude it was just a witty name for a tournament.

calm down.