DarkSpidey13
Smash Ace
one more for ya - what's ZSS's down B?
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Ask HugS about Samus in Brawl
- Thread starter HugS
- Start date
HugS
Smash Champion
Haha, this is the perfect question. It asks everything I want to address.
I'll answer the several questions first though. I don't know the difference between the 2 black samuses. Sorry. I rarely picked the colors.
I Wasn't able to test out anything requested since this morning. But i was able to test out bomb to airdodge to bomb to airdodge... It was really hard to do, but i did manage once to airdodge up and bomb again. This could lead to a bomb, airdodge up, bomb type of recovery. I dont know yet.
I'll just list some moves and explain if they improved or got worse in order to answer these general questions:
1. Dash attack = same
2. Up tilt = Stronger, but possibly less range. Good KO power.
3. Dtilt = same
4. Dsmash = Strong but sends opponents straight up. Unless they just had great DI
5. Up air = better, stronger, hard to DI out of. KO ability.
6. Fair = better, stronger, harder to DI out of.
7. Missles = homings are the same. Super missles are worse. Knock back sends you straight up, little to no KO power.
8. Back air = Incredible. Idk if I have just been sweet spotting it the whole time, but it's her best KO move it seems.
9. Sex kick = About the same. Possibly less priority, but I can't say yet. Less KO power for sure.
10. Jabs = stronger
11. Dair = same.
12. Fsmash = same
13. Ftilt = same, seems stronger. Better Combo ability from it.
14. Dthrow = not sure yet. But sex kick follow ups seemed to work best since most characters are floaty.
15. Charge Shot = I forgot to test if it can be angled before being shot. Sorry
16. Up Smash = better, harder to DI out of. Same damage it seems.
17. Up B = Better, harder to DI out of. Seems like more hits but I'm not sure. Goes higher than Melee's up B.
18. Grab range = possibly less. Not 100% sure on this one.
K so that answers a lot of general questions. I'll move on to HugQ's post
1)Can you still pivot smashes/tilts/grabs?
Yes you can.
2)Is jab-canceling still in? Is it any different?
Yes! You can jab cancel, and it's just as good.
3)Have you tried shield-dropping?
Yes. And it works just the same.
4)Can you hit anyone out of a d-throw? Can you tech-chase anyone out of a d-throw?
Yes you can hit most of the characters i played out of a Dthrow. I can't think of one that I couldn't hit. You cannot tech chase out of a Dthrow. They can jump out before hitting the ground due to the floatiness.
5)Do you personally like the new up-b?
Yes. It's just as good if not better.
6)Were you able to do the fake jump to ledge trick?
No. I'm too floaty. And you can't press down to get off the ledge, so I had to get used to it still.
Cra$hman
Smash Lord
so if only a couple of her moves are nerfed and a lot of them are a lot better why are you saying shes worse than in melee?
HugS
Smash Champion
I feel that the more important techniques were nerfed and the techniques that were just fine were the only ones that got better, minus the usmash.
We didn't really need a better up B or a better uair u know. But we sure as hell needed a wavedash, similar if not better missiles, and a charge shot that was as good as before.
What needed to be fixed wasn't fixed and was made worse in some cases. What worked already was unnecessarily improved.
We didn't really need a better up B or a better uair u know. But we sure as hell needed a wavedash, similar if not better missiles, and a charge shot that was as good as before.
What needed to be fixed wasn't fixed and was made worse in some cases. What worked already was unnecessarily improved.
freddybones
Smash Journeyman
No biggie, there's still a good bit of hope.
They have a few months to make balance tweaks. Things like damage, knockback, oppentent trajectory and priority is as easy as changing a number or two in the code.
The bigger changes that involve lag and animation require some more work, but it isn't a terribly big deal.
E for All served as an excellent way for them to get some free game testing done. They may or may not come and read the info on the SWF, but I know they want to make the game as balanced as they can.
They have a few months to make balance tweaks. Things like damage, knockback, oppentent trajectory and priority is as easy as changing a number or two in the code.
The bigger changes that involve lag and animation require some more work, but it isn't a terribly big deal.
E for All served as an excellent way for them to get some free game testing done. They may or may not come and read the info on the SWF, but I know they want to make the game as balanced as they can.
...It's continuing to seem like a reversion back to Smash64...
In general, rolling is more useful, shield-grabbing is better...
And for Samus:
Sex-kick is weaker - like in 64
Upsmash is slightly better - like in 64
Bair seems to be the killer move - like in 64...
In general, rolling is more useful, shield-grabbing is better...
And for Samus:
Sex-kick is weaker - like in 64
Upsmash is slightly better - like in 64
Bair seems to be the killer move - like in 64...
Chris7x
Smash Cadet
Is Samus's grab faster then it was in Melee?
CHAOSDRAGON88
Smash Ace
Can samus use her final smash at the begining, since after she fires away she discards her suit afterward?
darkNES386
Smash Lord
Switching to zamus before the battle starts? Anyword on that? What I guess I'm really asking is... will we need to play with smash balls to be able to play as zamus?
It's ironic. Samus is always known as a distance fighter, especially to those that have played any of the Metroid games, due in full to her Arm Cannon. Heck, she's even called a "long-distance specialist" in Melee. And her introductory article in the Dojo implies that her missiles, fire-based attacks and Charge Beam would be very important to her in Brawl. Makes one wonder exactly what it is Sakurai truly wishes for this character. Hopefully her distance attacks will be fixed by February.
Speaking specifically about the Charge Shot, what, in your opinion, truly makes it weaker, and is there anything at all that's been improved? I read in another topic that it charges faster. And, what of her homing missiles?
Speaking specifically about the Charge Shot, what, in your opinion, truly makes it weaker, and is there anything at all that's been improved? I read in another topic that it charges faster. And, what of her homing missiles?
T3h_Tru7h
Smash Apprentice
I didnt read the rest of the thread but how fast is Samus' shieldgrab now? Is it faster than Melee or roughly the same?
TGM
Smash Lord
so it seems oveall samus has gotten worse.
JettythatSamus
Smash Apprentice
i hate asking this, and I'm kinda sure that I already know how to do it but just in case,
what exactly is jab cancelling?
sorry for not knowing
what exactly is jab cancelling?
sorry for not knowing
Jab and crouch, then jab again as soon as you can after the crouch animation starts.
HugS
Smash Champion
It's about the same I guess.
They are pretty nerfed. I explained why.Are Samus' new Super Missiles really that terribly nerfed? That was her defining move in Melee, so I will be sorely dissappointed if they aren't as good in Brawl. In fact, I'd consider using a different character...
Both are just generally close to being as slow as before. The roll may be faster, but it's hard to tell cuz no one was good enough to abuse me when i rolled.
I dont know if you can switch to Zss before the match starts. But my guess is that you will be able to select her beforehand without the need of smashballs.
it does charge faster, but it doesn't give the same knockback as before. I believe the KO power is weaker as well. It seems to travel just as fast though. Homing missiles are as good as ever.
I didn't try shield grabbing. It's not a viable tactic with samus to begin with. The grab starts up just as slowly as before.
Since the super missiles have obviously been nerfed now (upward knockback...?), does anybody think that the developers will "fix" (by that, I obviously mean improve) Samus by Februrary? Missiles are so great a necessity that I can't stop worrying about them...
I've been reading all over the boards, and it seems rather odd that so many moves are said to now have vertical knockback, where some people will go as far as to say that attacks that, by their nature would not force an opponent up, do so anyway. As the demo was, in the end, only a demo, and of a game that's less than 4 months away, maybe they didn't quite get all of the properties of the attacks right.
I mean, it makes no sense whatsoever that a missile (and it's not the only example), which is a straightforward attack, would force the opponent in any direction other than the one that it's going in. It's not like Samus really needs to have such an excellent weapon converted into a juggling tool, and her Missiles were in no way overpowered.
Even if all of Samus' other changes stick, I don't think this one will. It's just completely illogical, from any perspective. And, even if in the final build her S.Missiles are, overall, nerfed, I'm sure they'll have some strength that competent Samus players can work with. Otherwise, this statement:
"Her arm cannon is equipped with a variety of weapons.
Mastering all of them is the first step toward victory."
Loses a lot of its meaning.
I mean, it makes no sense whatsoever that a missile (and it's not the only example), which is a straightforward attack, would force the opponent in any direction other than the one that it's going in. It's not like Samus really needs to have such an excellent weapon converted into a juggling tool, and her Missiles were in no way overpowered.
Even if all of Samus' other changes stick, I don't think this one will. It's just completely illogical, from any perspective. And, even if in the final build her S.Missiles are, overall, nerfed, I'm sure they'll have some strength that competent Samus players can work with. Otherwise, this statement:
"Her arm cannon is equipped with a variety of weapons.
Mastering all of them is the first step toward victory."
Loses a lot of its meaning.
Somebody
Smash Journeyman
Well just because the knockback doesn't make sense doesn't mean they will "fix" it before Feb. Look at ganons fsmash now, it hits straight up and its an elbow. Maybe vertical kills will be more effective in brawl. The only thing I think they would actually change about the missles before launch would be the amount of knockback.
JettythatSamus
Smash Apprentice
PSYDON is right; Super Missiles with weak vertical knockback is just plain illogical. It would make absolutely no sense for them to not get fixed by launch.
ihavespaceblondes
Smash Master
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z2I1ug8MjVI
At about 0:55 to 1:05, Samus fires a couple of missiles in midair. I realize that she's falling slower because of the wind on Pokemon Stadium, but it looks like the missile animation ends sooner than in Melee. Did you notice or try that? Did you attempt a full hop double missile or anything like that?
At about 0:55 to 1:05, Samus fires a couple of missiles in midair. I realize that she's falling slower because of the wind on Pokemon Stadium, but it looks like the missile animation ends sooner than in Melee. Did you notice or try that? Did you attempt a full hop double missile or anything like that?
BigRick
Smash Master
omg it seems like so indeed
Wait, if you cant press down to get off the ledge, does that mean no more edgehopping attacks?
What the hell are these guys thinking...
i think the reason samus is nerfed a bit is because of ZSS. In melee all they had was samus so they focused on her and just her moveset. but in brawl, they need to balance out samus and ZSS. They are focusing on samus and ZSS as a whole. But with Zelda/Sheik they didn't balance them at all....
so idk what they plan to do with her. i sure hope they don't mess up her moves therefore effecting her strategies.... I love bomb jumping....
so idk what they plan to do with her. i sure hope they don't mess up her moves therefore effecting her strategies.... I love bomb jumping....
TGM
Smash Lord
what happens at :24-:26? is it DD or what?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qeScWEQlBck
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qeScWEQlBck
T3h_Tru7h
Smash Apprentice
HugS
Smash Champion
You can press back to edgehop. I was also able to do it with a southwest/southeast movement too.
I would also like to see this generalization.
And as someone mentioned before, are Samus' missiles chargeable? Sakurai did mention some chargeable special attacks...
It does appear that the animation ends a little sooner, but I don't think that will affect play that much... Unless of course you're a hardcore player who relies on little things like that and years of training.
In a normal match, though, you wouldn't be able to do much because that wind is the sole reason Samus could do that.
And based on that video, Samus' Super Missiles really do suck badly. When Donkey Kong was hit around 130%, he barely flinched...
There has to be some other element to those Super Missiles, assuming that their code was finalized in the E4A demo (which is the most important aspect to this whole thing. For all we know, in the final version, her S.Missiles will behave as they did in Melee, and the devs simply didn't have the time to finalize their code for the demo, or perhaps it was an error in the code that caused them to behave that way). Sakurai wouldn't just make them useless like that. Even god-awful moves like Melee Mario's Tornado (and, by extension, Brawl Mario's dair, unless Sakurai modified it) have some use (aside from recovery, in the case of the Tornado), and Missiles are a key part of Samus' signature arsenal.
Maybe they can be charged, like bs4 suggested. Samus was able to charge her Missiles in Metroid Fusion and the Prime trilogy.
HugS, did you ever see or hear anything like that?
Maybe they can be charged, like bs4 suggested. Samus was able to charge her Missiles in Metroid Fusion and the Prime trilogy.
HugS, did you ever see or hear anything like that?
T3h_Tru7h
Smash Apprentice
Somehow she looks more floaty, that seems ********... Shoulda just left her how she was in Melee ... King Dedede for Brawl so Ill be maining him and not Samus .
... King Dedede for Brawl so Ill be maining him and not Samus .I figured I'd quote this to make things easier on meHaha, this is the perfect question. It asks everything I want to address.
I'll answer the several questions first though. I don't know the difference between the 2 black samuses. Sorry. I rarely picked the colors.
I Wasn't able to test out anything requested since this morning. But i was able to test out bomb to airdodge to bomb to airdodge... It was really hard to do, but i did manage once to airdodge up and bomb again. This could lead to a bomb, airdodge up, bomb type of recovery. I dont know yet.
I'll just list some moves and explain if they improved or got worse in order to answer these general questions:
1. Dash attack = same
2. Up tilt = Stronger, but possibly less range. Good KO power.
3. Dtilt = same
4. Dsmash = Strong but sends opponents straight up. Unless they just had great DI
5. Up air = better, stronger, hard to DI out of. KO ability.
6. Fair = better, stronger, harder to DI out of.
7. Missles = homings are the same. Super missles are worse. Knock back sends you straight up, little to no KO power.
8. Back air = Incredible. Idk if I have just been sweet spotting it the whole time, but it's her best KO move it seems.
9. Sex kick = About the same. Possibly less priority, but I can't say yet. Less KO power for sure.
10. Jabs = stronger
11. Dair = same.
12. Fsmash = same
13. Ftilt = same, seems stronger. Better Combo ability from it.
14. Dthrow = not sure yet. But sex kick follow ups seemed to work best since most characters are floaty.
15. Charge Shot = I forgot to test if it can be angled before being shot. Sorry
16. Up Smash = better, harder to DI out of. Same damage it seems.
17. Up B = Better, harder to DI out of. Seems like more hits but I'm not sure. Goes higher than Melee's up B.
18. Grab range = possibly less. Not 100% sure on this one.
K so that answers a lot of general questions. I'll move on to HugQ's post
1)Can you still pivot smashes/tilts/grabs?
Yes you can.
2)Is jab-canceling still in? Is it any different?
Yes! You can jab cancel, and it's just as good.
3)Have you tried shield-dropping?
Yes. And it works just the same.
4)Can you hit anyone out of a d-throw? Can you tech-chase anyone out of a d-throw?
Yes you can hit most of the characters i played out of a Dthrow. I can't think of one that I couldn't hit. You cannot tech chase out of a Dthrow. They can jump out before hitting the ground due to the floatiness.
5)Do you personally like the new up-b?
Yes. It's just as good if not better.
6)Were you able to do the fake jump to ledge trick?
No. I'm too floaty. And you can't press down to get off the ledge, so I had to get used to it still.
First of all, I just found out what the sex kick was. I've been using it for years, but I never knew its name. To learn that this attack is getting nerfed saddens me. Could you find out exactly what's different about it, because your analysis is a little vague (words like "possibly" and "I can't say for sure")?
Next, how does the timing for the bomb jump recovery work? I think it was you who said that the blast pushes you horizontally depending on the angle, but do the bombs still fall correctly for the recovery technique? How much harder is it to perform?
Lastly, do you think Samus was nerfed, improved, or remained the same overall?
Somebody
Smash Journeyman
Didnt you kind of answer your own question by quoting his whole overview of all her moves now?
No, not at all. I only see an individual analysis of each move, and they aren't very detailed. I have no idea how playing as Samus feels. Do you understand what I'm saying? You can look at all the moves on paper, but you have to play the game to understand how different it really is.
So, what about my questions?
Somebody
Smash Journeyman
No need to get defensive. It just seems like hes answered that question throughout the whole thread.
hugQ Cortex
Master
I'll try to answer your question bs4...I think HugS said something like some of the crucial aspects of Samus's game were nerfed, like her down smash, her sex kick, missile game,, charged shot, etc...and things that were just fine before were unnecessarily made slightly or moderately better...like her up-smash, most of her arials, up-b. I believe he said something to that effect in some post he made. So yeah, SOME of Samus's things were nerfed and some upgraded, but it's too soon to say how she stacks up compared to the other characters on a higher level of play, naturally.
And I think the post you quoted of HugS should have answered your question, btw, based on what you make of the observations he presented to us, haha.
And I think the post you quoted of HugS should have answered your question, btw, based on what you make of the observations he presented to us, haha.