Official Art management- Shulk moveset analysis (Current move: D-throw)

[ExcaliburGuy]

What's a kara-fsmash?

It's basically a fox trot into a forward smash.

 

[Virum]

I dunno why I didn't post about Dash Attack until now, but might as well. Simply put, it's one of Shulk's worse moves. Frame 15 startup is pretty atrocious for a move that doesn't hit at a good angle, has a pretty poor hitbox, doesn't have enough knockback to kill at a reasonable percent and only deals decent damage. It's a high risk/commitment move with low reward, consequently leading it to be a really awful ground approach option. Its only uses are as a long range punish to punish misspaced mid-range zoning and as a combo ender at certain percents where Shulk's better BnB enders stop working. It's most useful overall in Shield due to the discrepancy between Shulk's running speed and the speed and distance covered by dash attack, allowing you to be even more precise with it as a punish option. The damage is pretty good in Buster, but it's outclassed by some of Shulk's safer, faster, better normals like jab, FTilt and BAir. The knockback is pretty good in Smash but it's outclassed by his grabs and UTilt.

So yeah, bad move use rarely.

.5 / 5

. 5 / 5 in Shield

Edit: Also, we've been on Dash Attack for about a week now. Requesting moving on to FSmash?

 

[Berserker.]

@ erico9001

You wanna keep thread ownership?

 

[Masonomace]

@ erico9001

You wanna keep thread ownership?

I don't mind keeping thread ownership. I don't do enough on the boards.

Edit: Also, we've been on Dash Attack for about a week now. Requesting moving on to FSmash?

I second this. I can't wait to praise the move only to know that the 1st hit of FSmash clashes with jabs & tilts.

 

[TheHopefulHero]

Hey all, it's been a long time since I've come by and made post, so it's good to be back and take part of the discussions again. Before I jump on to F-Smash, I just want to give my thoughts on the Dash Attack real quick.

Shulk's Dash Attack is one of worst moves in our kit for a variety of reasons, namely long startup and recovery time and poor power, but it does have its uses. The most use I've gotten out of this move is mainly as surprise attack and as a mobility option for Shield Shulk. This attack does have a good reach like most of Shulk's attacks and can reach pretty far when used near the edge. It's possible to do take a stock with this attack (especially in Smash Art) if the foe's off-stage and catch someone rolling if you're quick on the draw. For Shield Shulk, this can inch Shulk forward quite a bit and help him move around the stage. But as a whole, it's not going to be used often.

So, my rating on this is 2/5: It's not terrible and has its uses. It can give Shulk a surprise element of sorts, but you might want to save it for later or use another move entirely.

 

[Berserker.]

I'm gonna start making the write ups for u-tilt and d-tilt. Just notifying everyone. I'll also start typing my own opinion on f-smash early if f-smash is coming up next.

 

[erico9001]

F-smash? ok, sounds good. Oh, and I'm fine with holding onto the original post.

I don't mind keeping thread ownership. I don't do enough on the boards.

But if Mace wants it, he can have it. I have been busy with other things lately.
*cough* I mean... I'm taking over this forum one thread at a time! Muahaha! *cough*

Anyways, I'm going to include the vertical/horizontal range data Mace tested into the first post, since that seems important to me.

edit: Thread updated

 

[Deleted member]

I loooveee using FSMash. Sometimes, a bit too much though.

FSmash has two main weaknesses. The first is that the first hit of FSmash for whatever reason loves clanking with weak hits like Falcon's jab (t-thanks, Sakurai...). The second is that it's unsafe on block, no matter how well you space it (I think using Buster hitting with the tip might be safe, but I'm not sure). It's still a really good punish move though, because of how much range it has and it comes out pretty fast (well, for Shulk standards lol). I think you might be able to do something like perfect pivot out of shield if you need a bit more range for both hits to connect in order to punish your opponent, but my execution needs work, so I haven't tried it much. Using Buster with this move does like 25-27% damage easily (and you can combo into it with NAir at mid percentages) and it's also pretty powerful on it's own if you want to KO your opponent. It's also really good if you pivot smash with it, making it a bit more safe and can catch rolling opponents.

Overall, I'd give it a 4/5. If the first hit had a bit more priority and it was a bit more safe on block, I'd give it a 5/5, but oh well. Basically, just mainly use this move as a punish move and be cautious about throwing this move out randomly in neutral, and you'll get some good results with it.

 

[ExcaliburGuy]

F-Smash is the epitome of high risk-high reward. It's a very potent KO move, it covers a lot of range, and it has mild startup lag, but if you whiff, expect to be punished hard.

One of my favorite uses of f-smash is in Jump. You can use your aerial momentum to perform a sliding f-smash when you hit the ground. I've netted a decent amount of KOs from using this technique against opponents getting up from the ledge. In Speed, a pivot f-smash is a good surprise option. As for Shield, I'd advise against using smashes entirely. Shulk's decreased mobility makes smash attacks even more punishable. As expected, in Buster this move does MAAAASIVE DAMAGE, and it can even be combo'd out of the neutch at lower percents if your opponent doesn't DI correctly. In addition, if you space this attack correctly, the added shield push from Buster will make it safe on shield against certain characters. Finally, the Smash f-smash. Oh boy. If you land this at high percents, give your opponent a farewell salute and a passport, because he'll be flying through that blast zone in no time. If you miss, prepare to get slammed. I find that f-tilt is a much safer move in Smash just for its shorter cooldown.

In general, f-smash is not a move you'll want to be throwing out to often. I'd only use it when you know it will connect or when you need an unexpected mixup. It's returns are indeed great, but its risks make it hard to justify using it too often.

Overall: 3.5/5

 

[Berserker.]

I love this move and kinda hate it. Love it because of the reward for landing it. The frame data of f-smash is actually really impressive. Up angled f-smash has insane knockback potential and even without smash art, you can KO opponents at fraudulent percentages with it. This move comes out at frame 14 which is actually fairly fast. Although it's not impossible to react to. Considering f-smash's insane range, damage, knockback, frame speed, you'd think that this move can be spammed. Haha no. The ending lag is awful and punishable. I advise using this move for punishing or when pivoting or from set ups. Pivoting can really confuse opponents into just rushing into you without expecting a surprise f-smash. F-smash can be set up into mostly only in buster as far as I know. You can set up into it via d-tilt. You can also combo into f-smash at lower percentages off from n-air. In buster, you can at mid-high percentages and ****, it deals a LOT of damage. I should also take note of the damage in buster. ~25% damage. That's insane. Also, this kills REALLY early in smash art.

Basically, with great power comes great responsibility. Learn to love and abuse the reward but be wary of its ending lag. Use this in case the opponent is already closing in



Anyway, I'm finished with d-tilt's summary. Now for u-tilt (coming soon)

D-tilt : Monado sweep

D-tilt is considered as one of Shulk's best and most important moves. It's used for a variety of purposes: spacing, combo-starting, set ups and damage racking. D-tilt deals 9% damage sweetspotted (base), 7% sourspotted (tipped) without any damage buffs/debuffs active. The move itself has a frame 10 start up which is fast (especially when compared to Shulk's overall frame data). Its range is exceptionally long horizontally, but its knockback is fairly weak. Don't expect to land kills with d-tilt even with smash art activated.

D-tilt's long range and quick start up and end lag makes it one of Shulk's most efficient and safe attacks for spacing. You can throw out a free hitbox with out (sort of) fearing any incoming punishment attempt. However, its generally mediocre/low damage output makes d-tilt unsafe on shield, although it's not that unsafe if tipped. It's your best option and your safest option to use against grounded approaches. Although n-air would have been safer if it came out much faster and if it had less landing lag (it has less landing lag though as it stands). It's also not an option against aerial approaches because of its low hitbox. Arguably, d-tilt is at its best when you use it in tandem with buster art. With its long range, quick start up, and high damage output, it's safe on shield when tipped or when you land the mid-portion of its hitbox.

Without any art, d-tilt can't really combo into any move but with buster, speed, and jump, you can actually get some moves off from d-tilt. In jump or speed, you can land f-air off from d-tilt with your increased air mobility. With buster, you can get a dash grab or even another d-tilt off from d-tilt. D-tilt is also capable of setting up into other moves depending on the art you're using thanks to its knockback angle. Even if you can't combo into anything from d-tilt, you can set up from d-tilt. You can feign opponents into air dodging so you can punish them. D-tilt's knockback angle also puts opponents into a positional disadvantage (aka: in mid-air, where you're mostly likely under them) which you can exploit with your aerials or u-tilt. In addition to being a good combo starter, it's also a good combo finisher. N-air -> d-tilt in low percentages in other arts+vanilla, and in mid to high percentages, n-air -> d-tilt works in buster art.

D-tilt doesn't have a lot of utility though with smash, vanilla or shield art. Its uses shine from jump, speed and mostly buster art. All in all, d-tilt is an important move for Shulk because of its quick start up, relatively low ending lag, and long range. With buster, it becomes pivotal and crucial for Shulk's spacing and damage racking. With jump and speed, you can set up for aerial assaults.

1/2
(In buster)

 

[kenniky]

Quick question: does untilted fsmash have a use? up tilted has more range and kill power and down tilted can hit on the ledge but normal doesn't seem to have anything going for it.

 

[Zatchiel]

Quick question: does untilted fsmash have a use? up tilted has more range and kill power and down tilted can hit on the ledge but normal doesn't seem to have anything going for it.

It's fine for damage when you're just trying to dish it out, like in Buster. It can consistently punish landings without the opponent probably popping out like if you tilt down, or missing if you tilt up (some landing squats make characters painfully short).

I mostly use it for n-air -> f-smash, since you can buffer it at no real cost. Other than that, I'm not very picky as long as f-smash hits.

 

[Masonomace]

Quick question: does untilted fsmash have a use? up tilted has more range and kill power and down tilted can hit on the ledge but normal doesn't seem to have anything going for it.

I apologize for the misconception of FSmash tilted upward having more range, since that was from my 1st test. From my 2nd test I realized that FSmash without being angled actually hits farther than angling it up or down. It will vary with hitting characters doing an action like standing walking running crouching or landing during one of their moves since their hurtbox makes them shorter or bigger, but I wanted to clear that up because of my mistakes.

Anyway, FSmash not angled is fine to use. Angling it up isn't really necessary to use at early percentages unless you want that early Buster FSmash satisfaction & to angle it up making sure that you won't be punished for the endlag, which is very understandable. The 1st hit of FSmash angled down can even hit characters who re-grab the ledge after being ledge-trumped & that can mean extra damage using both Blade hits of FSmash. It could be vital for securing a stock with a Smash Art active or tons of damage with a Buster Art active.

 

[kenniky]

I apologize for the misconception of FSmash tilted upward having more range, since that was from my 1st test. From my 2nd test I realized that FSmash without being angled actually hits farther than angling it up or down. It will vary with hitting characters doing an action like standing walking running crouching or landing during one of their moves since their hurtbox makes them shorter or bigger, but I wanted to clear that up because of my mistakes.

Anyway, FSmash not angled is fine to use. Angling it up isn't really necessary to use at early percentages unless you want that early Buster FSmash satisfaction & to angle it up making sure that you won't be punished for the endlag, which is very understandable. The 1st hit of FSmash angled down can even hit characters who re-grab the ledge after being ledge-trumped & that can mean extra damage using both Blade hits of FSmash. It could be vital for securing a stock with a Smash Art active or tons of damage with a Buster Art active.

Ok, that makes more sense. I thought that was strange, because that's not really how math works lol

Anyway, fsmash is a pretty cool move. pretty fast, decent at covering getups, landings, and such. also kills super early which is nice, and it's got a ton of range which oddly makes it a decent spacing tool. The only problem is its endlag but that's not completely horrendous and it's not like a punish leads into a death combo like Melee.

I would say fsmash warrants a 4/5.

 

[Berserker.]

Done :^)

U-tilt : Monado upper

Shulk's u-tilt is one of the (if not) best anti airs in the game due to its massive vertical range. It comes out at frame 11 which is somewhat fast. For Shulk? It's actually fast. At its early frames, it deals 8% damage. If you land the latter frames of u-tilt, it deals 7% damage instead. U-tilt does have a horizontal hitbox but it isn't notably long. Some characters can still get hit by u-tilt even if they're behind the hitbox...... (credit to @ kenniky )

while standing:


while hanging (requires strict spacing):


U-tilt's qualities and mechanics enable it to be a good ledge trapping tool and an amazing anti-air. You can use it to shut down ledge hops and even ledge climbs or ledge rolls since you can use its horizontal hitbox to intercept those options. Doing that though requires quite precise spacing. As mentioned earlier, its amazing vertical reach makes it one of the best anti airs in the game. You either beat out any incoming aerial assaults or trade with those aerials. U-tilt's range also allows it to be an effective pressuring tool for enemies camping or staying on platforms.

The arts further diversify u-tilt's uses and reward/s. With jump or speed, you can use jump's air mobility/speed's overall mobility to juggle opponent's with u-tilt or you can use u-tilt to set up for aerial assaults with speed/jump. You can bait opponents into air dodging to anticipate your u-tilt. From that moment, you can u-tilt their air dodging animation since u-tilt outlasts the animation. With buster, you can chain u-tilt into more u-tilts or even air slash for massive amounts of damage. You can even mix it up with jab or pivoting. The low knockback doesn't send opponents far off to the point that they even fall down within your range even after landing buster u-tilt so you can mix it up or set up into any attack from that point. Smash art turns u-tilt into a deadly KO tool that kills in surprisingly low percentages. You can be more deceptive with u-tilt by using MADC with it. Dash towards the ledge or towards the opponent then cancel the dash animation into Smash art then u-tilt them to the skies. You can also use MADC u-tilt for ledge trapping.... One more thing, u-tilt is also good for extending combos. You can get f-air > air slash from one hit confirm from u-tilt in jump art.

U-tilt is a unique attack that also lends itself to being an important asset for Shulk's defensive and spacing game. Unfortunately, whiffing u-tilt will likely result into punishment since the end lag is relatively punishable so be careful with it.

 

[Ultinarok]

Slit Edge is one of Shulk's best assets. It has the greatest disjointed range of any side-smash bar Gunner if I'm not mistaken, is incredibly easy to angle (and its angling has more of an impact because of its disjoint, giving it a wider overall radius it can reach in) which allows it to edge guard opponents recovering low (done this many times at the edge) or get early KO's on those recovering high or falling in front of you, it kills early in general, and does decent damage. Its also great on a read, fantastic in a pivot, and being a two-part move, has two potential impact hitboxes to catch the opponent. Lag kinda sucks, but for its attributes, and considering its a smash attack, it could be worse.

.5 in Vanilla and Jump (not as useful in these scenarios)
in Shield, Buster and Smash (good keep-away tool to make up for poor shield mobility, great damage and mix up in Buster strings at the end of the string, and ruthless KO power that the opponent must respect in Smash)
.5 in Speed. Pivoted Side-smash is godlike, and it naturally follows up after nair and fair in a short hop, its a much better grounded option than his DA and he can chase the opponent down easily afterwards thanks to his speed.


I know its early, but once we switch moves, I propose we do Uair. Its one of my favorite finishers, but its situational and doesn't see much use, yet has a lot of potential (kills Mewtwo at like 70% without rage mid-screen!), especially in Jump. I want to see what everyone thinks of it.

 

[Masonomace]

My Overall vote: / 5

Slit Edge angled up or down increases the 1st hit's active frame by 1, but hey we'll take it. And I say this now: If you ever want to KO mad early with Shulk, then you're going to angle FSmash up & have the Smash Art active because those two factors together in the same moment will bring a smile to your face. It gets so much better with Rage, the DSmash Art, the HSmash Art?! Oh man. . . . I could go on about FSmash's usage with the Shield & Buster Arts but there's no need.

FSmash has two main weaknesses. The first is that the first hit of FSmash for whatever reason loves clanking with weak hits like Falcon's jab (t-thanks, Sakurai...). The second is that it's unsafe on block, no matter how well you space it (I think using Buster hitting with the tip might be safe, but I'm not sure). It's still a really good punish move though, because of how much range it has and it comes out pretty fast (well, for Shulk standards lol). I think you might be able to do something like perfect pivot out of shield if you need a bit more range for both hits to connect in order to punish your opponent, but my execution needs work, so I haven't tried it much. Using Buster with this move does like 25-27% damage easily (and you can combo into it with NAir at mid percentages) and it's also pretty powerful on it's own if you want to KO your opponent. It's also really good if you pivot smash with it, making it a bit more safe and can catch rolling opponents.

Overall, I'd give it a 4/5. If the first hit had a bit more priority and it was a bit more safe on block, I'd give it a 5/5, but oh well. Basically, just mainly use this move as a punish move and be cautious about throwing this move out randomly in neutral, and you'll get some good results with it.

The weaknesses are pretty spot-on with how I feel about FSmash. I dislike that the 1st hit of FSmash will clash priority with things like a Jab1, or a tilt looking the other way (like what?), etc.. The second point in regards to Buster FSmash tipped & spaced well won't truly work unless they're Luigi, another character with bad traction, or if the opponent isn't aware of the mighty shield knockback & damage on shield we deal, & their reaction trying to punish our huge endlag is a whiff.

 

[Berserker.]

Dash attack : Monado lunge / Monado flop

I think there isn't much to say about this attack. Honestly, it's a contender for Shulk's worst move and that's saying a lot but you're probably here telling me, "just tell me when to use it goddammit." Well here's my answer:

You don't use it that much

Well, you CAN use it for long ranged punishment but er... take note that this is a frame 15 move whose hitbox is actually surprisingly short. It also has a relatively punishable ending lag window. Long ranged punishment and... that's about it. No seriously, you'd try to avoid resorting to using dash attack. I mean, its FAF is 53. That's really bad. Like, seriously crap. Let's look at Shulk's f-smash. This is a smash attack. Its hitbox comes out at frame 14. Yes, you heard me. Shulk's f-smash is actually a frame faster. Not only that, it also has longer range and it deals more damage and also has higher knockback.

While I'm at it, I ALMOST forgot, dash attack has impressive knockback. In smash, you can use dash attack to KO but you have better options like smash d-throw/b-throw, etc. In shield art, dash attack is actually more useful since Shulk's ground speed suffers heavily so you can use dash attack as sort of a way of moving around while punishing more accurately instead of overshooting with the move. And yes, you can overshoot this attack if you use it point blank.

So yeah. Horrible dash attack. Try not to use. If you see someone use it, it was probably an accidental input

Rating:


Alright, done with dash attack :D

 

[Ultinarok]

Dash attack : Monado lunge / Monado flop

I think there isn't much to say about this attack. Honestly, it's a contender for Shulk's worst move and that's saying a lot but you're probably here telling me, "just tell me when to use it goddammit." Well here's my answer:

You don't use it that much

Well, you CAN use it for long ranged punishment but er... take note that this is a frame 15 move whose hitbox is actually surprisingly short. It also has a relatively punishable ending lag window. Long ranged punishment and... that's about it. No seriously, you'd try to avoid resorting to using dash attack. I mean, its FAF is 53. That's really bad. Like, seriously crap. Let's look at Shulk's f-smash. This is a smash attack. Its hitbox comes out at frame 14. Yes, you heard me. Shulk's f-smash is actually a frame faster. Not only that, it also has longer range and it deals more damage and also has higher knockback.

While I'm at it, I ALMOST forgot, dash attack has impressive knockback. In smash, you can use dash attack to KO but you have better options like smash d-throw/b-throw, etc. In shield art, dash attack is actually more useful since Shulk's ground speed suffers heavily so you can use dash attack as sort of a way of moving around while punishing more accurately instead of overshooting with the move. And yes, you can overshoot this attack if you use it point blank.

So yeah. Horrible dash attack. Try not to use. If you see someone use it, it was probably an accidental input

Rating:


Alright, done with dash attack :D

Agreed, DA is crap. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it and everyone seems to agree, because I weened myself off of DA shortly after I started using Shulk right after I learned how terrible it is. He's better off approaching with his many other Speed options.

 

[Berserker.]

One more thing about f-smash, IMO, it's also good for retaliating against ledge rolls or ledge get-ups if spaced right. You can also use it to punish get-up options but it requires timing and some reading.

 

[kenniky]

fsmash is good for covering landings too, especially if they expect you to do a uair utilt (why would you ever use uair), you can charge the fsmash and even if they're Jump Shulk the range will usually be enough to cover drifting.

 

[Zatchiel]

Guess I'll contribute now that I have time. F-smash is one of my favorite of Shulk's hard punish tools. How the arts work themselves into its use make it a great option, even though it should still be used sparingly.

Vanilla: I like to mainly use this for killing, especially after a run with Buster. You go from having almost no killing ability to decent killing ability with a single art deactivation. This works fine with the other two arts that lower your killing power; Speed and Shield. 4

Jump: No reduction to damage, so it kills as feasibly as it does in vanilla, which is more feasible than certain arts. Tomahawking into f-smash in this art is an effective strategy. 4

Speed: I try to avoid using it at all in this art. I switch it off if possible, to get vanilla's damage + knockback. 3

Shield: Same as Speed, but I feel it's a little better since it's less risky to throw out. Usual uses. 3

Buster: It's just another Shulk f-smash if it doesn't hit. The thing is, it's godlike if it does. If it lands, 100% of the time you can follow up with an art switch if you want to. The opponent is either within a perfect range of combo percents or they're at Smash art/vanilla kill percents. 5

Smash: I don't know if I can convince anyone that f-smash in this art is about as effective as it is in Buster, but if it's a concern I could try. You can potentially kill a lot earlier, especially if you get a charge in. 5

Overall: 4/5

The shield safety of it hardly differs between arts, so it's not worth addressing beyond "don't spam f-smash." The move itself is rather solid.

 

[Berserker.]

To back up Zatch

Let's have a perspective check. According to the KO% thread, in Smash art, it KO's at 84% angled up at the center, 92% if not. That's the center of an omega stage. Now, what if it were somewhere around the starting position of the character (when a match starts)?

So yeah. Smash art f-smash is nuts

~~

I decided to add this. Since arts really do vary the utility and usefulness of Shulk's moves, I decided to stop being lazy (because I always am tbh) and added ratings for each art. I counted and looked back at the inputs you guys gave about this. Added some new ones here and there. So yeah.

At the 2nd post of this thread, you'll see that the post has been updated with this (it's updated every now and then after a move discussion is concluded)

Jab / Jab combo : Monado combo

Rating:
普翔疾盾撃1/2
斬

F-tilt : Monado swing

Rating:
普翔1/2
盾
疾斬撃1/2

D-tilt : Monado sweep

Rating:
普
翔 1/2
疾
盾撃 1/2
斬

U-tilt : Monado upper

Rating:
普疾
翔斬
盾1/2
撃1/2

Dash attack : Monado lunge / Monado flop

Rating:
普翔疾撃
盾1/2
斬1/2

~~

It's been 3 days. Are we moving on to d-smash or u-smash?

Anyway, I'll make a write up for f-smash soon (expect it tomorrow, I guess)

 

[Masonomace]

It's been 3 days. Are we moving on to d-smash or u-smash?

Either or is fine with me. I have some helpful things to say about both moves, but I would start with D-smash first.

 

[Berserker.]

I'm fine with either also. It's up to our boi erico

 

[ExcaliburGuy]

Nice job on the write ups.
Completely off topic, but for whatever reason, I put the Monado kanji (普, 翔,疾, etc.) into Google Translate and it gave me some interesting results. 普 is "widely" according to the good folks at Google, and 翔 isn't even translated into anything. 疾 is one of my favorites. It is translated as "sputum". They got shield right, at least. 斬 is "zan" in Google Land and finally, 撃 is translated as "attacks". I'm not sure if the English localization team changed the names of the Monado Arts, but Google Translate appears to not even be close. There's a lesson in here somewhere. Maybe don't use Google Translate for foreign language classes? I don't know.

Anyway, on topic, I recommend down smash next, or "the Monado Blender" as I like to call it.

 

[Berserker.]

I'll go start with the f-smash write up

If you guys want to start d-smash, go ahead. @ erico9001 will probably be cool with it (I think... :|c)

 

[erico9001]

If you imagine really hard, Down Smash kind of looks like Shaker Edge/Turn Strike.

Sure, why not D-smash?

I'll go start with the f-smash write up

If you guys want to start d-smash, go ahead. @ erico9001 will probably be cool with it (I think... :|c)

Oh oops, I had that saved as a draft and forgot to post it! :x

Let's see, Down Smash more looks like a top to me. Hmm, spinning... Oo, Monado Cyclone!

 

[Berserker.]

Monado Cyclone sounds good

 

[Masonomace]

D-smash
3 Front hits, 2 Back hits, where's the 3rd back hit?. . .It should be dealing 4/4/4/2. 5 hits in total & the KO potential among the 5 hits greatly diminishes after your 2nd hit, which is technically the 1st hit from the Back. I did do some rough KO percentages for the 2nd hit of D-smash from behind Shulk & it had a decently good amount of KO power, but like I said, after the 2nd hit, the remaining 3 simply cannot seal the deal.

We learned from the Smash Art KO percentages that hitting with the center of the 1st hit's Blade hitbox is stronger, rather than being too close with the Blade or ofc being too far away hitting with the Beam. I think the 2nd hit's Blade is stronger than the 1st hit's Beam, but that doesn't matter much, so let's talk about the fun stuff shall we?:

Applications
D-smash > Punish Rolls
Monado Art Dash Cancel > Sliding D-smash
Monado Art Dash Cancel > B-Reversed Sliding D-smash
Monado Jump Art > Drifting & landing to the floor > Slight Slide D-smash
Monado Buster Art > Punishing their Ledge-Climb option with D-smash read > Possible shield break
Monado Smash Art > KO'ing at fraudulent percentages

All of these applications to D-smash make the move so much better, but I forgot to mention something else: Buster Locking!. . .The only problem for Buster Locking with D-smash is that's not really that possible. Even though the Buster & DBuster Arts reduce knockback, it isn't enough knockback reduction to lock someone who slips off a platform, not even Bowser. However, HBuster is what I really wanted to talk about for this topic; you can lock even Mario with a HBuster D-smash off a platform slip in the early to mid-high percentages with or without Rage Effect. The Sakurai Angle (361°) has much to do with the reason Buster Arts are able to lock in the first place, & HBuster's knockback reduction is so high that you can lock at much later percents if desired.

Buster Art + D-smash Ledge-Trump = Profit? Yes! Despite that Ledge-Trumping can be avoided, keeping the option in mind for punishing a re-grab after the trump with Buster D-smash is some good stuff. . .and it's so much better with HBuster. I've Ledge-trumped Bowser & waited for him to regrab the ledge, & once I noticed his re-grab I proceeded to input an uncharged HBuster D-smash up close so that all 3 Front hits made contact. I couldn't tell you exactly if I hit with all 3 Blades or just 2, I just know that I dealt ~54%. . .from 0%. Wow.

Buster Art + D-smash semi-charged for punishing the Ledge-Climb option is oodles of greatness because we can get a broken shield & dealing so much shield knockback, that they'll be pushed away & fall to their demise with no hope. Or if we don't get the best-case scenario, we at least are guaranteed damage from a Shield-Stab / Shield-Poking them because their bubble shield was hit so hard that their hurtbox from underneath them is heavily exposed. A competent player aware of this instance will angle their bubble shield & hold it down to try protecting their hurtbox, but let's face it, the only character who could have enough bubble shield HP to cover their ground is Shield Shulk, DShield Shulk, & HShield Shulk.

So basically, I rate D-smash an overall .5 / 5. The move can surprise players who are unaware of D-smash's 5th & final hit having the most range to bat them away when they try dashing in to punish our supposed "endlag" when actually they didn't wait long enough. Yet this attack is to be treated like any of Shulk's smash attacks: Don't get too carried away with it. It should be noted that Buster D-smash can still be punished if you just wait for the 5th hit from the front to finish & accordingly dash in to punish with whatever you like. And lastly, other Arts are fine with D-smash, it's just that the Buster Arts truly make the difference barring Smash's KO potential with the 1st hit's Blade hitbox. Man Hyper Smash D-smash is crazy!

Jump D-smash because the sliding feature is neat:
Buster D-smash because the damage pressure on shield is just too great to not vote 4/5:
HBuster D-smash because the knockback is so low, it's easy for 2 - 3 Front hits consistently:
Smash D-smash because the KO power is real:

 

[Berserker.]

I don't know Mace. I'd definitely rate Smash D-smash 4/5 because of the KO power. Smash d-smash + MADC is nuts.

I'll make my full input soon along with f-smash

 

[Masonomace]

I don't know Mace. I'd definitely rate Smash D-smash 4/5 because of the KO power. Smash d-smash + MADC is nuts.

I'll make my full input soon along with f-smash

Ah, no johns but I wanted to rate Smash D-smash 4/5 since Buster D-smash is 4/5. *secretly edits*

While I'm not double posting:
Decisive Jump D-smash:
Hyper Jump D-smash: .5
Decisive Smash D-smash: .5
Hyper Smash D-smash:
Decisive Buster D-smash: .5

 

[Berserker.]

F-smash : Slit edge

Aaaah. This move. Shulk mains love this move. Maybe a bit too much but there's a reason behind the love for slit edge. Insanely long range. High damage output ~ 18%. Insane KO power, especially if angled upwards. Most of all with all these perks, it's frame 14 so it's somewhat fast. Still telegraphable to a certain extent. The end lag of f-smash is ridiculous though and it's easily punishable. F-smash is also unsafe on block no matter how well-spaced it is. Basically, there's a risk to using f-smash at neutral but landing this is ultimately really rewarding, especially in buster and smash art

There are safe and elusive ways on how to land f-smash. F-smash can be combo'd into at lower percentages from n-air. For buster, n-air > f-smash starts working at mid-high percentages. You can also combo f-smash off from any aerial with the help of MALLC. After the landing lag is cancelled from the aerial (which you need to land on the opponent), you can instantly execute f-smash. As for the methods without the need of combo'ing it, you can either pivot f-smash or use it only for punishment. Pivoting f-smash serves as a somewhat risky option against rushdown characters. You pivot to get space between you and your opponent so that they won't beat you to the punch with a quicker attack. The space is also important since f-smash can whiff if the opponent is really up close to Shulk while he's executing the f-smash. Using f-smash to punish is also the safest way of landing the move, obviously.

With speed art, boost pivot f-smashes are a more powerful but more risky alternative to boost pivot f-tilt although it deals less damage. With buster art, f-smash deals a whopping 25% damage which makes landing f-smash much more rewarding and it heavily skews the risk:reward ratio to the reward's favor. Smash art allows f-smash (mostly angled up) to kill at ridiculously fraudulent percentages.

Overall, f-smash is a good and important move for Shulk. Impressive frame speed, amazing damage and KO output which can be manipulated with buster or smash art, and long range. It's hindered though by its notably large ending lag which makes using f-smash quite the risk. This is why f-smash is a move that can be both loved and hated.

Rating:
普翔
疾
盾 1/2
斬撃

~~

Anyway, onto my opinion on d-smash

Surprisingly, I don't use d-smash as much as I'd like to. I'd use it for general punishment, roll punishment and MADC but that's about it. If I were to make a read for ledge trapping, I'd use u-smash instead since it's much more reliable. D-smash is surprisingly useful for punishing whiffed FF aerials and I even get some kills off from using it that way. D-smash is a great option once you have your opponent cornered near the ledge. D-smash only becomes notably more useful with the help of buster and smash art. With the other arts, either its uses don't change that significantly or the reward for landing d-smash is decreased even further. D-smash also has surprising KO power btw. As in, even the sourspots have notably high knockback. So, um yeah. There. That's all I gotta say about d-smash.

tldr: The start up is slow (F18) and it also has bad ending lag but its multiple hitboxes are great for catching rolls. It's also good for MADC applications, and for catching whiffed aerials (if the aerials are FF'd). It also is capable of KO'ing at low percentages even with its sourspots (sans the last hit)

Onto d-smash+monado arts

With buster, it deals more damage which is amazing. It's also capable of shield breaking if you use this on a shielding opponent near the ledge (which will almost kill them in the process). With smash art, it kills ridiculously early. D-smash's KO power

Jump/Speed 1/2
Shield/Vanilla
Buster/Smash

 

[kenniky]

dsmash is really really good for catching rolls and surprisingly edgeguarding because of its range. Several hitboxes make it easier to hit but you become a sitting duck for literally three millenia if you whiff

yeah if you notice a player likes to roll behind you or in a specific direction (left, right, towards/away from the edge) then you can punish the roll with a dsmash

other than that idk

3.75/5 (is this a valid score?)

 

[Berserker.]

Sounds more like 3.5 if that's the case

 

[TheHopefulHero]

D-Smash : War Swing / Monado Cyclone ( I thought of War Swing before Monado Cyclone...)

This is a great move to have in check when you're not using Aerials, Tilts, or even Smash attacks to score hits. This move has a lot of power behind it and the range extends as it goes on. The only problem is that if you don't hit the foe with the 1st two hits, you're not getting much knockback out of it. There's a number of ways to extend the range of this move with the help of the Monado Arts, so this Smash attack can have a variety of uses:

Any Art - Monado Dash Cancel: If you can net the timing for this tech, you have a chance to go for a D-Smash while sliding. This can make it great to sneak a hit in on foes, especially if you activated Smash or Buster in the process.

Jump - Sliding D-Smash: While this goes for just about all of Shulk's ground attacks, Down Smash can benefit a lot for this tech.

Speed- Sudden Edge Slide (Don't have a name for this): A little fun trick you can do in Speed Art is run towards the edge turn around and go for the Down-Smash. If done correctly, Shulk will slide as he does the D-Smash so you can extend the range of this attack even further. While you can do this in with / without an Art, Speed make this tech go very far (almost 1/2 of FD when done correctly).

Buster- Shield Breaker / Damage Racker: This attack can break shields and do a lot of damage to a foe thanks to the low knockback from Buster. Especially if you're in Hyper Buster.

If I had to give a score, I'd say 3/5. There's a lot of good things about this move and it's a flexible attack for a variety of situations. It's also a bit on the slow side and you real need to land a hit on the 1st / 2nd strike in order to get the most of it.

 

[Masonomace]

I forgot to mention that D-smash has different ranges for the 3 Front hits & the 2 Back hits:

The Monado's Maximum Horizontal Range​

Note: All of Shulk's moves are listed farthest to shortest. I used a custom stage I created to help assist with this, & used the Crate item to better determine the results. Not even Wii Fit Trainer was the greatest example to use for the first time.

Note: I only measured the range of Shulk's moves by the farthest they could reach aka the Beam aka the sourspot in most cases. The rare & proud exception to this "B & B rule" is N-air since the better spaced it is, the 1% more damage it will deal with the Beam.

1. Back Slash Charge sliding hit-box as Shulk with any Art excluding all 3 Speed Arts
2. Back Slash Charge sliding hit-box as Speed Shulk / DSpeed Shulk / HSpeed Shulk
3. Dash Vision counterattack (This basically looks like a disjointed Tipper hit-box, but it's the sourspot)
4. Advancing Air Slash 2nd hit
5. Power Vision counterattack
6. Vision counterattack
7. Back Slash landing Tipper hit
8. Instant Dash Attack as Speed Shulk
9. Instant Dash attack as Vanilla Shulk / Jump Shulk / Buster Shulk / Smash Shulk
10. Instant Dash Attack as Shield Shulk
11. Back Slash Leap landing Tipper hit
12. Forwarded Dash Vision counterattack
13. Air Slash 2nd hit
14. FSmash 2nd hit without angling
15. Full Jab Combo (Rapidly tapping A)
16. FSmash 2nd hit angled downward & upward
17. BAir from behind
18. Forwarded Vision counterattack
19. Forwarded Power Vision counterattack
20. FThrow collateral 3% hit
21. Air Slash grounded 1st hit AND Advancing Air Slash grounded 1st hit
22. DSmash 3rd hit from the front (It's actually the 5th hit of DSmash)
23. DTilt
24. FSmash 1st hit angled upward
25. FAir
26. FSmash 1st hit without angling
27. FTilt
28. FSmash 1st hit angled downward
29. DSmash 2nd hit from the back (it's actually the 4th hit of DSmash)
30. DSmash 1st hit from the back (it's actually the 2nd hit of DSmash)
31. DSmash 1st hit from the front
32. DSmash 2nd hit from the front (it's actually the 3rd hit of DSmash)
33. Mighty Air Slash 2nd hit
34. Jab-1 > Jab-2
35. Ledge Attack from the ledge
36. NAir from the front
37. BThrow collateral 3% hit from behind
    
38. Mighty Air Slash grounded 1st hit
39. Jab-1
40. NAir from behind
41. UTilt
42. USmash Front Ground-Hitting knock-up
43. BAir front-facing hit
44. Standing Grab
45. USmash Back Ground-Hitting knock-up
46. DAir
47. UAir

1st hit of D-smash is ranked #31
2nd hit of D-smash is ranked #30
3rd hit of D-smash is ranked #32
4th hit of D-smash is ranked #29
5th hit of D-smash is ranked #22,

 

[ExcaliburGuy]

I don't use this move too often, however down smash does have its merits. It is great for catching rolls, as most people have pointed out already. Generic For Glory Links don't stand a chance against this move. And, again, as it has been pointed out, it is great near the ledge, as it covers pretty much all of your opponent's options. In Buster, this move does massive shield damage, especially in Hyper Buster. It also benefits a lot from MADC. Finally, the final hit has a wider hitbox that can catch opponents off guard. Unfortunately, as with many of Shulk's moves, the main downside of down smash is its startup and ending lag. It is one of the slowest starting moves in Shulk's repertoire, if not the slowest (I haven't memorized Shulk's frame data, so don't quote me on that). Use it wisely.

Buster/Smash:
Vanilla/Jump/Speed: 1/2
Shield:

 

[Berserker.]

Are we done with d-smash yet?

 

[TheHopefulHero]

I think we got D-Smash covered by now. Think we should move on to Up-Smash?