Official Art management- Shulk moveset analysis (Current move: D-throw)

[Sha-Shulk]

No one's posted in a while...

so are we going to discuss a new move?

I'd recommend u-tilt.

 

[kenniky]

No one's posted in a while...

so are we going to discuss a new move?

I'd recommend u-tilt.

@ Berserker. 's heading the discussion so I guess once he gets back or there's a general concensus for moving on.

Also don't double post especially to bump unless there's a really good reason to (like a major update or something)

 

[erico9001]

Let's discuss Up throw?

 

[kenniky]

Let's discuss Up throw?

I second this. Up throw seems to be our least utilized throw: bthrow for damage and killing, fthrow for damage, dthrow for killing and combo set ups. uthrow I'm not too sure what to think of.

KILL PERCENTS ON DARK PIT OFF THE TOP OF TOMODACHI LIFE
Vanilla: 210%
Smash: 148%

don't use uthrow to kill people

 

[erico9001]

I like U-throw in three arts: Monado Buster, Monado Speed, and Monado Jump.

As long as they aren't too low in percent with Monado Buster (when you would do a buster d-throw combo anyways), buster U-throw can put them into an awkward position where if they air dodge, they will hit the ground, and you can hit them with down smash (covers for if they land behind you or in front of you), f-smash, or f-tilt. Or, if they try to attack instead of air dodging, they can be hit with U-tilt. All they can do is jump away, in which case they are still in an awkward position if you follow their movement. Other arts except for Smash can do this too at very low percents.

In Monado Speed, U-throw puts you in the position where you can follow them with walking and monado speed to juggle them.

In Monado Jump, an U-throw can lead to an aerial back slash. Results vary. It can also lead to an Uair follow up/kill if played right. Additionally, it can true combo with regular air slash against opponents with fast fall speeds at high percents. Can also work in AAS, but at more specific percents. Does not work with MAS, unfortunately.

 

[Sha-Shulk]

U-throw is great for set ups. In decisive buster, I can get an EASY 60% damage in with one u-throw to u-tilt+u-tilt+u-tilt....etc.

The opponent has to be at about 40%-70%, of course.

 

[kenniky]

May as well put data here.

==GRAB DATA==

Grab | Active Frames | FAF | Endlag
Standing grab | 7-8 | 30 | 22
Dash grab | 9-10 | 37 | 22
Pivot grab | 10-11 | 34 | 23

==UTHROW DATA==

U-throw
Frame 1-19: 4% 60b/80g (KO@ 389%) 88°
Frame 20-21: 3% 30b/120g (KO@ 346%) 361° 1.5-Hitlag Pierce
Max Damage: 7%

 

[Zatchiel]

I'd recommend u-tilt.

Exactly this. Why did we skip up tilt?

 

[The_Goofyborn]

Exactly this. Why did we skip up tilt?

I third this, up tilt is a move that needs more attention, so I also say we should take a peakaroo at it.

On topic with up throw, I think it's a great throw for setups and works very well with Speed, Jump and Buster (@ erico9001 nailed it with their description, in my humble opinion.) I will usually up throw an opponent just to gauge their reaction and act accordingly, but the general position it puts your foe in is pretty much awkward or bad to the point where it's not too difficult to either worsen their position or get a follow-up. I'd like to mention how useful this throw can be in doubles if you have your teammate cover the jump option, but I'll keep this in the singles mindset since this is a thread solely based on Shulk's moveset and not about doubles.

If I was made to give this one a rank, I'd say 3.5 out of 5, but even that feels wrong. It's honestly hard for me to rate Shulk's throws because they all have uses.

 

[Masonomace]

It seems off to be discussing UThrow before UTilt if we've already started the move discussion about Jab to FTilt to DTilt, but going over any move is fine with me.

So about UThrow, it's a neat throw. It could be Shulk's least-used throw because it's not a KO throw, but that's silly when we already have 3 other throws capable of taking a stock. To put UThrow's KO potential in a WiiU perspective by going to Training Mode, Hyper Smash Shulk's UThrow doesn't KO Mario set as Control CPU Behavior in the middle of Omega Gaur Plains until 155% & that's without DI involved. The earliest we'll see the Deadly Blow effect occurs at 157%. .with the Hyper Smash Art. I heavily second @ kenniky 's statement:

don't use uthrow to kill people

UThrow is two hits like all of Shulk's throws, & more hits is always good news when we involve a Buster Art. Vanilla UThrow fresh deals around ~7.35%, but a fresh Buster UThrow deals around ~10.29%. The decreased knockback from Buster Shulk's UThrow can be punished if the opposing character is A) heavy enough to not suffer as much hitstun and / or B) has a very fast frame move to strike back before our usual UTilt followup. However, factoring in a stage with platforms & using UThrow underneath a platform will mostly make the A) & B) points invalid. Otherwise, conditioning a player to expend their doublejump after our UThrow is common, & because of that it's not uncommon to go for the aerial chase with per-say a FAir, NAir, or even UAir as Shulk with or without Monado Arts.

@ erico9001 brought up good points for the Arts Jump Speed & Buster. Know that it doesn't hurt to use the Shield & Smash Arts with UThrow as well. If you don't wanna use a throw as Shield Shulk because of the 0.7x damage multiplier & as Smash Shulk because your damage multiplier is 0.5x, know that it is possible for Smash Shulk's UThrow to combo into UTilt or Air Slash since Smash Arts cause the opponent's tumbling state to occur much sooner.

 

[kenniky]

know that it is possible for Smash Shulk's UThrow to combo into UTilt or Air Slash since Smash Arts cause the opponent's tumbling state to occur much sooner.

I actually don't think this is possible even with the increased (?) hitstun of Smash. Uthrow just doesn't do enough knockback or end early enough to true combo into utilt or Air Slash. If it does, it's extremely specific.

In my opinion, uthrow is Shulk's worst throw. Bthrow and dthrow are both really good, and fthrow is decent for building up damage if bthrow gets stale, but I honestly don't see a whole lot of use for uthrow besides just getting them into the air.

2.5/5

 

[Masonomace]

I actually don't think this is possible even with the increased (?) hitstun of Smash. Uthrow just doesn't do enough knockback or end early enough to true combo into utilt or Air Slash. If it does, it's extremely specific.

It is possible, but only against characters with fast falling speeds such as Mega Man, Captain Falcon, & King Dedede. There could be more. So anyhow yes Smash Shulk's UThrow can combo into UTilt or Air Slash since the tumble state happens sooner, but I'm not even factoring Decisive Smash or Hyper Smash. Not many people would probably care about Smash combos at early percent anyway. .

 

[kenniky]

It is possible, but only against characters with fast falling speeds such as Mega Man, Captain Falcon, & King Dedede. There could be more. So anyhow yes Smash Shulk's UThrow can combo into UTilt or Air Slash since the tumble state happens sooner, but I'm not even factoring Decisive Smash or Hyper Smash. Not many people would probably care about Smash combos at early percent anyway. .

Oh, ok. I do most of my genetic testing against either Dark Pit or default Mii. Didn't think to try fast fallers.

 

[erico9001]

I'm kind of curious what people Decisive Jump and Hyper Jump allow U-throw -> Air Slash to work on. However, that's more for the Shulk combo thread.

I suggested U-throw because I was waiting for quite a while to make a post about it. It was seconded, so the discussion shifted towards it. We should move onto U-tilt next.

EDIT: Thread updated (I'll handle the op til Berserker comes back)

 

[kenniky]

Wait, did you just usurp command of this thread from @ Berserker. ? Is that a thing that mods can do, shift ownership of a thread?

Anyway, we all know utilt is a super cool move. It covers a vertical area barely lower than the highest Battlefield platform with a huge disjointed hitbox making it one of the best antiairs in the game.

There are a couple of combos with utilt, most notably utilt --> fair --> Air Slash as Jump Shulk which is super flashy

utilt can be used in conjunction with Monado Speed's superfast walk to juggle opponents for days

utilt has a front hitbox but not a very good back hitbox.

Characters that utilt's back hitbox CAN hit while standing:
Bowser
Rosalina
DK
Ganondorf
Samus
King Dedede (extremely specific)

Characters that utilt's back hitbox CAN hit during certain parts of their idle animation (in progress):
Charizard when he rears his head
Wii Fit Trainer when he/she stands on the balls of his/her feet (it's like 3 frames long)
Bowser Jr.
- After looking around, when he lifts himself out of the car, you can hit his shell
- During his jumping idle animation
Sheik when she lifts herself up on one foot
Ike when he lifts his sword on his shoulder

Characters that utilt's back hitbox CAN hit during certain taunts (in progress):
Falcon during dtaunt
Mewtwo during utaunt
Bowser Jr. during side taunt when he lifts himself farther out of the car to plop back in
Link from the back during dtaunt (he pushes you too far forward to hit him from the front)
If Zelda is standing directly behind you and does her dtaunt, her hand reaches in front of Shulk far enough to get hit by utilt's front hitbox
Zelda during utaunt
Palutena during utaunt
Palutena during side taunt when she straightens up
Marth during utaunt
Ike during utaunt when he lifts his hands up
Ike during side taunt when his arms are in the air
Ike during dtaunt

utilt's front hitbox hits all characters even when they are crouching. It can even hit some characters when they are hanging from the ledge, such as Charizard.

UPDATE:
utilt can hit the following characters when they are hanging from the ledge (this requires impeccable spacing) (in progress)
Yoshi (nose)
Bowser Jr.
DK
Meta Knight
Charizard
Ness
Villager
Olimar
Wii Fit Trainer WHEN HE/SHE BRINGS HIS/HER HEAD UP

I HAVE TESTED ALL BUT MEWTWO AND THE MIIS. IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO HELP, TEST:
- ALL TAUNTS
- HANGING FROM LEDGE
- BOTH IDLE ANIMATIONS
THANKS

 

[Masonomace]

Before I forget, my UThrow ratings:
Overall rating: .5 / 5
---------------------------------------------------------
Jump UThrow: .5 / 5
Speed UThrow: / 5
Shield UThrow: / 5
Buster UThrow: .5 / 5
Smash UThrow: / 5
════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
UTilt
UTilt's great, there's definitely no use denying it. The move has great vertical range & like kenniky mentioned, it hits any character crouching to the floor including Wii Fit Trainer. The Blade hitbox range in front of Shulk is less than our Jab1 & like kenniky mentioned, it's hitbox from behind is not that great. It starts becoming active on frame 11 but the move stays active long enough to outlast airdodges coming toward you. Arts make this move great as UTilt does well with basically any Art active because the move is that good.

Jump Shulk can utilize juggling with UTilt alone by doing some empty hops following where the opponent drifts to & can land on the floor with the previous air speed drifting thus he'll slide some distance, inputting UTilt during landing slide. Jump Shulk can also use UTilt within a combo such as a landing NAir into UTilt into an aerial preferably FAir, UAir, or DAir, & followup with Air Slash if desired. Speed Shulk can juggle with UTilt by simply walking / dashing to shield to dropping shield & accordingly inputting UTilt to wherever the opponent goes, not to mention that Speed Shulk Perfect Pivoting UTilt has a slide effect to it & turns the direction around which would be ideal for frame trapping airdodges that drift toward you in order to get behind you. Shield Shulk can play a good defensive game with UTilt by stuffing a mixture of aerial approaches coming from the front & above him followed by more inputted moves for spacing purposes, although Shield Shulk can dash quickly to the predicted location the opponent might drift to & cancel his skid animation quicker thus being able to input more UTilts for juggling. Buster Shulk can UTilt multiple times if the moment's right, & could even force a panic airdodge to the ground which would be punished with UTilt or any move Buster Shulk chose for dealing more damage. And finally, Smash Shulk makes UTilt a KO option mostly with the Blade hitbox but can still KO with the Beam hitbox too.

Let's not forget that stages with platforms make UTilt feel right at home. BF's very top platform is barely out of UTilt's sourspot reach, but a character's hurtbox via a move extended through the platform's floor, or their bubble shield put up due to the worry of UAir can be hit by UTilt.

I've decided to continue my Ledge-trumping project sometime soon & will proceed with testing UTilt's blade hitbox since I've noticed @ kenniky has a starting list in progress.

So, my UTilt ratings:

Overall rating: / 5
---------------------------------------------------------------
Jump UTilt: .5 / 5
Speed UTilt: .5 / 5
Shield UTilt: / 5
Buster UTilt: .5 / 5
Smash UTilt: .5 / 5

 

[Sha-Shulk]

I eat heavy characters with my U-Tilt combo (in buster).

Simple:

up throw -> U-tilt -> repeat step two.

(If they air dodge, you can just f-tilt or something, because they land right next to you.)

 

[Agent Emerald]

Utilt is a very Dirty move with a very dirty hitbox and I wouldn't have it any other way. It trades with everything and everyone that tries to attack Shulk from directly above. It is pretty much the bane of most Heavies since their only option is to DI away or pray they get knocked out of range of a another one.

/5

 

[Linkmario00]

Utilt is great. It has a lot of vertical range and decent horizontal range so that we can cover platforms above us with that. Can connect into itself in buster and that does a lot of damage, can juggle for days with super flashy Speed's walking and can kill in Smash. Great anti-aerial also since every opponent that attack from the air in front of you has to deal with Utilt, and we can punish easily airdodges with it. Truly a wonderful move.
.5/5 beacuse it's extremely difficult to hit someone behind you and it's not that great in Shield.

 

[Zatchiel]

Not even gonna waste time conjuring up a guess. Up tilt is one of our best moves.

Vanilla: Good for juggling and anti-air. Can't be opposed at all by most of the cast if they are above you. Decent damage. 4

Jump: Best combo setup we have. Low percent juggles. Beyond those percents it can truly combo into a f-air string or u-air. Vital to Jump usage. 5

Speed: See vanilla. 4

Shield: See vanilla. Less mobility hinders its use in combos. 3.5

Buster: Great damage along with most of the benefits it has in vanilla. If the opponent's percent is high enough after a successful hit you can switch off Buster and kill them in vanilla. 5

Smash: Our best vertical finisher. Ideal for stages with low ceilings, but it can work out regardless. 4.5

Average: 4.3/5 (4.5, but I'm willing to vouch for the first overall rating of 5)

Needless to say, I love this tilt. I'm sure you all do as well.

 

[Ultinarok]

Up tilt is godlike. Chains in Buster, has the most extended reach of any attack of its type in the game, works in Jump to knock opponents airborne for follow-ups, and it kills reasonably in Smash. Low start-up is a bonus. Oh, and up-throw, slide smash U-Smash, certain nair hitboxes, and sometimes fair all put opponents within its hitbox so it gets a lot of use. My favorite tilt and one of Shulk's best moves, although Up-Smash and dair are probably my absolute favorites.

1/2

As for U-throw if that's still being discussed too, I agree that its likely his worst throw, but its decent in Buster for putting opponents into U-tilt strings or aerial follow-ups, and at high percentages it sends them vertical enough for a rising Uair in Jump, which is one of Shulk's most deadly finishers. Basically if you want an easy aerial follow-up on a shielding opponent, Uthrow is a good bet.



The only move I'd say is outright poor for me is DA because its so laggy and has such minimal reward, and is hard to land when in Speed, which is practically the only time Shulk will ever approach with a dash. Slide Smash, SH nair/fair and dash grab are a million times better options. So I know we haven't discussed it yet, but I'll just say now that I think DA is Shulk's worst move, and is by far the one I use the least. I think every other move, including Uthrow, has a use.

 

[Masonomace]

I'd love to discuss Dash Attack, since I'm sure most feel that it's not that great of a move. It does have uses & I'll talk about some of them in the next post.

 

[Sha-Shulk]

Dash Attack has its uses. It's an easily punished move on whiff, but if your opponent doesn't DI or gets stuck in a dtilt, fair, nair combo of sorts then DA is a great finisher.

Unless you whiff, it is pretty safe.... but it's easy to whiff.

 

[Nammy12]

I was wondering about dash attack, is it possible for Shulk to crouch under it to avoid it completely?

 

[erico9001]

Alright, let's move onto dash attack

 

[Sha-Shulk]

Alright, let's move onto dash attack

I'd give it a straight up 2.5/5

I don't have time to consider the move in all 5 arts, but I imagine Buster/Speed/Smash make it better. Maybe Shield as well?

 

[Masonomace]

Alright, let's move onto dash attack

Dash Attack
Frame Data:

1. Dash Attack
2. Frame 15-16: 11% 70b/80g (KO@ 182%) 60° Slash
3. Max Damage: 11%

First, I address that Monado Arts can affect Dash Attack's reach. See here in the quote below:

Maximum Horizontal Range​

Note: All of Shulk's moves are listed from farthest to shortest. I used a custom stage I created to help assist with this, & used the Crate item to better determine the results. Not even Wii Fit Trainer was the greatest example to use the first time for this.

Note: I only measured the range of Shulk's moves by the farthest they could reach aka the Beam aka the Sourspot in most cases (Exceptions like NAir are loved & appreciated, because NAir, you break the B & B "rule"<3. I also did not test move techniques like Jump Canceled Vision).

1. Back Slash Charge sliding hit-box as Shulk with any Art excluding all 3 Speed Arts
2. Back Slash Charge sliding hit-box as Speed Shulk / DSpeed Shulk / HSpeed Shulk
3. Dash Vision counterattack (This basically looks like a disjointed Tipper hit-box, but it's the sourspot)
4. Advancing Air Slash 2nd hit
5. Power Vision counterattack
6. Vision counterattack
7. Back Slash landing Tipper hit
8. Instant Dash Attack as Speed Shulk
9. Instant Dash attack as Vanilla Shulk / Jump Shulk / Buster Shulk / Smash Shulk
10. Instant Dash Attack as Shield Shulk
11. Back Slash Leap landing Tipper hit
12. Forwarded Dash Vision counterattack
13. Air Slash 2nd hit
14. FSmash 2nd hit without angling
15. Full Jab Combo (Rapidly tapping A)
16. FSmash 2nd hit angled downward & upward
17. BAir from behind
18. Forwarded Vision counterattack
19. Forwarded Power Vision counterattack
20. FThrow collateral 3% hit
21. Air Slash grounded 1st hit AND Advancing Air Slash grounded 1st hit
22. DSmash 3rd hit from the front (It's actually the 5th hit of DSmash)
23. DTilt
24. FSmash 1st hit angled upward
25. FAir
26. FSmash 1st hit without angling
27. FTilt
28. FSmash 1st hit angled downward
29. DSmash 2nd hit from the back (it's actually the 4th hit of DSmash)
30. DSmash 1st hit from the back (it's actually the 2nd hit of DSmash)
31. DSmash 1st hit from the front
32. DSmash 2nd hit from the front (it's actually the 3rd hit of DSmash)
33. Mighty Air Slash 2nd hit
34. Jab-1 > Jab-2
35. Ledge attack
36. NAir from the front
37. BThrow collateral 3% hit from behind
    
38. Mighty Air Slash grounded 1st hit
39. Jab-1
40. NAir from behind
41. UTilt
42. USmash Front Ground-Hitting knock-up
43. BAir front-facing hit
44. Standing Grab
45. USmash Back Ground-Hitting knock-up
46. DAir
47. UAir

Performing an Instant Dash Attack out of standing position or walking with a Speed Art active would slightly increase the reach, while a Shield Art active would slightly decrease the reach. Vanilla Jump Buster & Smash are the same range.

So lemme get to the reasons I rate Dash Attack an overall .5 / 5

• Despite the startup & endlag, this move's range from a standing or walking position is swell
• Taking a hit on shield that would deal high shield knockback, Dash Attack oos is a swell punish option when your usual OoS options wouldn't reach. For me, this point is exactly why I rely on Dash Attack oos while playing as Shield Shulk
• Punishing your opponent's mistake from a distance when you're not Speed Shulk can be answered with Dash Attack
• Shield Shulk makes great use of Dash Attack despite the slight decrease of range (The slight decrease isn't that huge of a deal). The range is still mostly the same which is a positive thing since Shield having slow movement makes Dash Attack look relatively fast (Frame 15 isn't fast but you know what I mean)
• Speed Shulk has increased friction / traction, so if a move possessing high shield damage & shield knockback had some endlag, a Dash Attack would be just fine for punishing
• Dash Attack can become a reliable OoS KO or as a general KO option for Smash Shulk

 

[Goesasu]

Shulk dash attack is terrible 1/5 and this hinders the character more than anything but its a balance criteria so it cant be avoided, i will explain.

Sheik, mewtwo,yoshi, zero suit, sonic, rosalina, pits, megaman, metaknight and even wii fit trainer have some AWESOME dash attacks. This is relevant because it allows mix ups while running or dashing between dash grab, pivot grab and dash attacks. The rest of the cast has some decent dash attacks which allows the same mix ups, just lets awesome.

Now lets take a look at the long reaching disjointed characters, AKA swordsmans:
Shulk, Marth and lucina, Link and Ike. All of them have low startup and long ending lag dash attacks which are clearly the worse of the cast. All of them deserve 1/5 dash attacks but the questions is why? why all the swordsman get the worse dash attacks?

The answer is obvious, fast long reaching disjointed dash attacks with low ending lag would be broken, allowing them to attack from distance without compromising their hurtboxes, making the mentioned grabs mix ups plays way too effective. Its not coincidence that these characters share this kind of dash attacks.
Metaknight its the exception because he aint true swordsman by smash standards, the reach of his hitbox its too close to his hurtbox making him unable to truly attack from a safe distance.

Therefore, shulks dash attack can only truly be compared with others of his archetype, the other swordsmans. Shulks dash attack its just OK by this measure, equal to marth and lucina, a little better than ikes, but worse than links which covers a good distance and has insane KO potential.

Also, Speed shulk is one of the main reason why his dash attack is so bad. I can only imagine the wonderful things we could do with a decent dash attack supported by speed and D speed.

Overall 1/5 but because its a balance criteria, it HAS to be bad.

 

[Agent Emerald]

Dash attack is kinda meh. I try to chain into it with fthrow, but it either gets teched or jumped out of. It kills in smash at a relatively late percent for the art.

.5/5

 

[kenniky]

The answer is obvious, fast long reaching disjointed dash attacks with low ending lag would be broken

Fast, long reaching, disjointed, mediocre ending lag. Sakurai doesn't care about what's broken.

That aside, dash attack is subpar. Comes out late, one of our smaller hitboxes, lots of ending lag, whiffs at point blank, not particularly strong (killing Greninja at 156% on Omega Gaur Plain 3DS from starting position, comparing to the Beam part of ftilt at 135% and the Blade of fair at 158%). It's got a really bad 45ish degree angle that lets even Little Mac recover with relative ease.

That being said it's an ok panic move if you manage to get a hit in.

2/5

 

[Sha-Shulk]

Honestly, Dash Attack is kinda garbage in any art. (IMO, of course)

 

[Masonomace]

Admittedly so, Dash Attack is one of our worst moves. The move has some uses but it's below average for it's frame data, the knockback angle being 60° doesn't make it any better when players will still be holding sideways away from the direction they're launched towards to make it less effective of KO'ing, & it's not something we can use at close distances.

Although, we shouldn't even be using DA to punish at close distances, when I'd rather use DA as an Instant Dash Attack out of standing position, out of shield, or following up from a Buster DThrow assuming they don't DI up. Even with a Smash Art active to make it's KO power stronger, it can still fail to do the job, but a spaced Buster DA on shield can be safe unless the enemy character has high traction & a decent dash grab to punish it. At least DA is much more reliable as a KO option with the DSmash Art.

But I change my rating to 2.5 / 5 overall just because it has some use & isn't a total useless move.

 

[Zatchiel]

Dash attack is crap, but it's not worthless. Only uses I can think of involve catching the opponent off guard somehow. It's not bad for punishing laggy landings or missed techs.

It does mediocre damage unless you have Buster on, and it puts the opponent in the air. There are art-specific intricacies but I don't feel any of that really matters.

2.5/5 from me. The move has uses but I would say it's lacking. I use it rather often, personally, and I still get why some Shulks prefer not to use it at all.

 

[Abaasy]

I really only find a use with Dash Attack in Shield mode. You run really slow and Dash Attack gives you a little boost which can sometimes be used to punish unsafe attacks on your shield. It's a fairly good option IMO if you get hit by a strong move in shield and have some pushback, making it so that you can't punish with something like a grab (If you aren't in speed mode, dash attack is a good option to punish).

It really doesn't combo into anything, and it's one of Shulk's slowest attacks to come out on the ground, excluding Smash attacks. It's not even safe on shield. There just isn't much point in using it, except perhaps in a few situational positions.

2/5 from me. There's nothing amazing about this move. It just simply does not have the viability to use that often.

 

[Berserker.]

Dash attack sucks. I mean, the range isn't bad or anything at all. It's still pretty good. You can still use this for punishing landings or for punishing from afar. One thing that a lot of players forget is that dash attack actually kills in Smash art and with that in mind, it's worth using in smash art if the opportunity arises. The start up is horrendous for a dash attack (F15) and the end lag also blows. It's incredibly unsafe to use at neutral. Worst part is that even if you try to punish with it, chances are the opponent probably has enough time to shield it because it comes out really late.

I try to never use dash attack. I can't really say anything else for it other than : it's alright for punishing

oh right. almost forgot. dash attack is good in shield mode because he's slow af. it doesn't overshoot as much because of the nerfed mobility but i'm not giving any additional points because of that.



I can't say much about DA. It's one of our worst moves

 

[ExcaliburGuy]

Dash attack is definitely one of Shulk's worst moves. It still has its uses, however, namely in Smash mode. It can be used to punish opponents out of range of your tilts, etc. A kara-f-smash is probably better suited for that task, though. Overall, 2.5/5.

 

[kenniky]

Dash attack is definitely one of Shulk's worst moves. It still has its uses, however, namely in Smash mode. It can be used to punish opponents out of range of your tilts, etc. A kara-f-smash is probably better suited for that task, though. Overall, 2.5/5.

What's a kara-fsmash?

 

[Berserker.]

Edit: Never mind

 

[Nammy12]

What's a kara-fsmash?

A kara in other fighting games is cancelling the animation with another move to gain extra range so I guess this means he's talking about a stutter smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Generally in fightan game terminology, Kara means to cancel a move into something like a grab or a special (for example, in SF4, Ken can kara-cancel his f+forward I think to greatly increase his grab range). I'm not sure what Shulk can cancel into FSmash though. Maybe OoS perfect pivot into FSmash? :x

Anyway, as for Dash Attack, honestly, sometimes I wish I could just turn it off. I guess it's not too bad as a dashing KO move (rage + Smash art kills relatively early I suppose), but generally, you really don't want to throw this move out there because of how unsafe it is on whiff and block. Can't really say anything that hasn't been said already.

1.5/5 for Dash Attack.