Are We or Aren't We going to Support Brawl As the Standard?

[Koga]

I'm Starting this Thread because all the posts i've seen refering to brawl as "dumbed Down" or "not as Deep as Melee" are really discouraging and disheartening to me. As a Smash player i would like the community to move on and develop more new and unique smash theories and techniques and we cannot do that if we stay in Melee.

Now to adress some arguments against Brawl:

1. Its not as deep.

I would like to REALLY know why not? The only thing that Melee has over brawl is an Advanced Movement Tech (Wavedashing). Brawl has shffling, L-cancel, pretty much every Adv Tech from Melee albiet they aren't done the same but so what? There are already Character specific Adv Techs and the american version hasn't even been released. No, i have not played brawl yet but i have seen many a video of brawl bouts by pro smasher and i have to say i don't see any depth lost from melee, sure its a little different over all, but all it doesn't have is an advanced movement tech, And im sure one will be discovered eventually.

2. Its slow/Floaty

Yes its a little floatier but not slow by any means. And how is being floatier that bad? "Boo Hoo i can't combo Like i did in melee" So what more of the combos will take place in the air and not off of the ground? Yes you'll have to make an adjustment what is so wrong with that? its not like smash changed into Mario party or something so why cause division in the community because your physics assesment of the game will have to change a bit?


Those are the main two i've seen. I've watched tons of brawl videos with pros fighting in them and i have to say: all the complaining people do just seems like bald face lieing; the stuff they say is a problem just doesn't show up enough to really matter at all; its not slower for one, the floatieness is only marginall and adaptable, and its only like a week old and its already deeper than most games are in their first year. Also the characters seem far more balanced than they were in melee as a whole.

But i will humbly say that there may be something i have overlooked or not seen. Could someone please rationaly explain this to me so that i may become better informed? I want nothing more than to have our community unified behind brawl, that's my main motiviation here.

 

[iron blade]

I agree with your arguments but this is a little old...

 

[Koga]

How so? I want to have an honest discussion about this where specific posts regarding this can be in one place rather than scattered through three or four different thread where this isn't even the topic

 

[Yuna]

From what we know so far, no I will not be supporting Brawl.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

It will become the standard. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

 

[Eggm]

From what we know so far, no I will not be supporting Brawl.

Same. I think the real competitive players will stick with melee, unless groundbreaking stuff is found in brawl, cause brawl's really boring right now.

 

[Chaosblade77]

MLG has already picked up Brawl and are hosting it. Brawl will be the standard regardless.

I figure there will still be Melee tournaments and it will stick around (more so than SSB64) but it won't be the standard.

I have to agree with your points though. It's only less deep in terms of "advanced" things that are not officially said. Once something is mentioned by Sakurai or in the guide, it ends up labeled a basic technique... it's the definition that throws things off. I think the BASIC game is deeper than Melee's.

And the slow/floatyness will just take people some time to get used to, more for some people than others.

 

[Super Drybones]

Give Brawl TIME

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Whether it has time or not, the switch will occur...and you will either like it, or stop playing

 

[Xengri]

1. Its not as deep.

I would like to REALLY know why not? The only thing that Melee has over brawl is an Advanced Movement Tech (Wavedashing). Brawl has shffling, L-cancel...

?????????

Ok, someone set me straight on this.

I keep hearing different things. Is L-cancel IN or OUT?
And, how is it done?

 

[Chaosblade77]

?????????

Ok, someone set me straight on this.

I keep hearing different things. Is L-cancel IN or OUT?
And, how is it done?

It's out, as far as I know. I have seen no confirmation of it in. However, to compensate, you can auto cancel some aerials and many aerials have no lag anyway.

 

[Koga]

From what we know so far, no I will not be supporting Brawl.

Fair enough, but why do you feel that way, what drives this? What about the problems you have with brawl make you decide to not support it as the standard?

Oh and L-Cancelling is In but its not a single button, you have to fastfall THEN preform your areial, it doesn't require pressing an aditional button.

 

[Downfall]

I'll give it a couple of months before everyone who's all "lol no melee plz" will flock to Brawl like the sheep they are.

Lol, competitive scenie-weenies.

 

[Shag]

How long was it before we discovered 'wavedashing' and other advanced techs in melee. Waveshining, wall of pain, etc., it'll be a long time before we've discovered all the techniques. In melee mario can wall jump after his up-b, not many people even knew that until pretty recently and the game's been out what? 7 years? New features have been added, characters can hang on the wall. Who's to say that brawl won't have tons of discoveries still to come? I mean, everyone is like "I can't shffl and do up-air to knee combos w/ falcon, boo hoo" but L-canceling wasn't figured out in the first few months of melee being out. It's much easier to power-shield now, which opens up many new options. All we need is TIME, all kinds of things will be figured out in due time.

 

[MasterRaichu]

I agree that we should give Brawl more time. People are way to quick to disown Brawl because it lacks their metagames that they worked so hard at refining. While I'm a little upset that my game's going to be off for awhile with Brawl on the horizon, I'm still going to play it just as much as I played Melee.

Why are people so ignorant about giving the game more play time? Doesn't everyone remember how much play was given to Melee before people started becoming truly tournament worthy?

 

[Downfall]

How long was it before we discovered 'wavedashing' and other advanced techs in melee. Waveshining, wall of pain, etc., it'll be a long time before we've discovered all the techniques. In melee mario can wall jump after his up-b, not many people even knew that until pretty recently and the game's been out what? 7 years? New features have been added, characters can hang on the wall. Who's to say that brawl won't have tons of discoveries still to come? I mean, everyone is like "I can't shffl and do up-air to knee combos w/ falcon, boo hoo" but L-canceling wasn't figured out in the first few months of melee being out. It's much easier to power-shield now, which opens up many new options. All we need is TIME, all kinds of things will be figured out in due time.

Patience? **** that, I want my WAVEDASHIIIIIINGGGGGfff.

I thought your name was Shaq at first. That would have been ultimate.

 

[YinYang.ERROR]

It will become the standard. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

Quoted for Truth.

 

[Chaosblade77]

Why are people so ignorant about giving the game more play time?

A combination of impatience and a natural dislike/fear of change.

 

[MasterRaichu]

A combination of impatience and a natural dislike/fear of change.

True that. I guess all of us can't be open armed.

 

[Koga]

I just don't see the community united that much yet and it worries me.

 

[Forget Me Not]

Brawl will become the standard. Unless Melee retains larger support over the support for Brawl, then there's no reason for Melee to stay. IMO, I think Brawl is a lot more balanced than Melee, but this is from the impressions and videos.

 

[Xengri]

It will become the standard. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

Man, I really wish I could tell the future like you.

Seriously, I fully agree in giving Brawl time to develop but, the people saying that it will become better or, just as good as Melee are just as bad as the people shooting it down with out trying it.

Not all sequels are better competitively then their prequels. There's no guarantee.


Also, TC, where did you get that L-cancel was in Brawl?

 

[Espy Rose]

Give Brawl TIME

He wins for best post in thread.

 

[INs4niTY-]

I agree, people need to stop the whines and just face that it is a better game. I shall support

 

[Nicktendo]

Brawl for all!

 

[Ichida]

Brawl has broken all the barriers. With the advent of online Brawl, a whole new competitive layer has been born, whether the stubborn ones accept it or not. Not to say Melee won't still get attention. Besides, if they decide to forsake Brawl and stick to their local Melee events, all the less people to clog up the Brawl servers with. :D

 

[Hitzel]

I just want to point out:

There's no L-cancel in Brawl. Pressing a shield button or doing a neat trick doesn't cancel landing lag. There are a small number of aerials that have less landing lag than L-canceled aerials did in Melee (aka, no lag at all), but most moves are laggier than in both past smash games. Just a clarification.

Also, there's less hitstun now. That makes it harder to combo for sure because opponents can attack you in situations where they couldn't in past games.

This comes from what I've read and videos I've watched... I haven't played the game yet. Overall I agree with you and I'm looking forward to playing Brawl online, but I just wanted to point those facts out. I'm expecting the road to competitive Brawl to be somewhat painful, but we'll get there.

 

[Falling Whistness]

Did anyone really think this wouldn't happen? If there was any significant change at all, a small but vocal group of people would stand up and say it sucks because it's not Melee.

Just let it be. Brawl will be far more popular than Melee, and most of those holdouts will probably eventually move on to Brawl because that's what everyone plays. Melee will continue to be played by a lot of people. But the people who are posting in the Brawl boards just to say they don't like the game are just whiners and they'll calm down and shut up eventually.

 

[Ojanya]

I'll give it a couple of months before everyone who's all "lol no melee plz" will flock to Brawl like the sheep they are.

Lol, competitive scenie-weenies.

What a mature response. Most proffesional players will be moving on to Brawl. It seems that only a handful want to stay with Melee. Personally, I'm looking forward to Brawl. I thought we were over this.

 

[Xengri]

I just want to point out:

There's no L-cancel in Brawl. Pressing a shield button or doing a neat trick doesn't cancel landing lag. There are a small number of aerials that have less landing lag than L-canceled aerials did in Melee (aka, no lag at all), but most moves are laggier than in both past smash games. Just a clarification.

See, that's what I thought. Thanks for clearing that up, Hitzel.



Now, If only I can find out where everyone is getting these crystal balls from.

Saying Brawl will be better is the same thing as saying Brawl will suck.
They both need much more time to be proven so people need to stop acting like they know any definites because they don't. No one does.

 

[Hitzel]

^^You're welcome.

Did anyone really think this wouldn't happen? If there was any significant change at all, a small but vocal group of people would stand up and say it sucks because it's not Melee.

Just let it be. Brawl will be far more popular than Melee, and most of those holdouts will probably eventually move on to Brawl because that's what everyone plays. Melee will continue to be played by a lot of people. But the people who are posting in the Brawl boards just to say they don't like the game are just whiners and they'll calm down and shut up eventually.

People will complain about any change, true, but that doesn't say anything about weather the changes are good or bad.

IMO, from what I know, Brawl won't reach Melee's competitive potential. That's not really a bad thing when you consider online play. A game that's too high speed online is vulnerable to lag and can get way too frustrating. Having lag / hits not registering / inconsistency is a big negative for both competitive play and casual play. I'd rather have Brawl be slightly dumbed down than unplayable online. We'll still have fun with Brawl, but we'll just experience more dull moments than we did in Melee. I see it as a fair tradeoff.

Note that I'm basing this off of my experience with game sequels in general, like the Halo 1 -> Halo 2 transition, but less severe.

 

[S2]

Regardless of whether Brawl is worse than Melee, its going to become the standard.

This happens with sequels all the time.

 

[SN3S]

Note that I'm basing this off of my experience with game sequels in general, like the Halo 1 -> Halo 2 transition, but less severe.

I think a better analogy would be the II Turbo -> Third Strike transition.

To this day, you have those who play II Turbo with a passion while disliking Third Strike, and vice versa; you also have those who enjoy and play both games (like myself)

I think it'll end up like that: people will keep playing what they like, and tournaments will probably still pop up like how Smash 64 tourneys were at Melee tourneys

 

[Jack Kieser]

From the sounds of it, things honestly could go either way. If many of the higher-level tournament players decided not to play Brawl, then I don't have a hard time believing that Melee would stay as the standard, at least for a while. I really think its going to be up to the leaders of the current tournament scene, but then again, I'm sure that's kind of an obvious thing to say.

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet; have any tournament greats given us their opinions yet?

 

[Gillenium]

Basically, Melee pros are just scared that their skills aren't going to carry over to Brawl. Most of the people complaining haven't even played it, and those who HAVE played it and are STILL complaining made up their minds about this before they even played it.

 

[Chaosblade77]

From the sounds of it, things honestly could go either way. If many of the higher-level tournament players decided not to play Brawl, then I don't have a hard time believing that Melee would stay as the standard, at least for a while. I really think its going to be up to the leaders of the current tournament scene, but then again, I'm sure that's kind of an obvious thing to say.

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet; have any tournament greats given us their opinions yet?

Well, M2K does not like Brawl, but he still supports it and is trying to make it the best he can, helping the community. Not sure about others.

And like I said, MLG supports it... and that is about as high as you go.

 

[Chrnocide]

I like how 80% of the people here are answering, and they've yet to play Brawl.

 

[gangstajuice656]

cool!!...............

 

[parkermortensen]

If you come at this game as if it's going to be Melee but deeper and better, then yes, you'll live in Melee forever, and I'll feel sorry for a few of you.

If you come at this game thinking "Hey, this game is as different as 64 and Melee are, so I can't expect my Melee techniques to just transfer over. I'd better not think of this as Melee + New Characters," then you'll move on to Brawl.

---------------

I don't mind people who want to dwell in Melee if it's because they've played both extensively and just prefer Melee's speed and style, but I don't respect those who claim "Wavedashing out? lol no" or "Melee has lag canceling; therefore, it is much better."

 

[AquaTech]

Of course Brawl will be the standard.
However, at every tournament, I'm sure there will be lots of Melee side tournaments that are very popular.