Approaching(in general)?

[Daichi]

So i main Mario and Second Luigi. but to be honest my luigi is pretty bad. i think my main problem is general approaching, so i was wondering if anyone here has any tips on that. I've mostly been using the cyclone, but it seems risky cuz im not really sure of it's priority, or what to do out of it.

Also, I was playing an olimar main with Luigi, and when i tried to approach he did the olimar thing and tried to hit me with pikmins. But i found that i seemed to have about a 50% chance to out prioritize the pikmin with the cyclone. So i'm thinking it's gotta have somehting to do with what kind of pikmin he was using for the attacks. Anyone know anything about this?

 

[popsofctown]

cyclones that originate in the air seem to have more priority. Try to start your cyclones slightly above ground, you should beat his crap.

 

[soccerdude7200]

olimar is really annoying. Even if u do ur tornado, he will keep throwing pikmin at you and he will punish you on the lag of one of your tornados once you get close enough. Cuz usually, the pikmin and your tornado will cancel each other out.

 

[Player01]

a reliable approach that all luigi's know is the dair>nair (dnair, right elheber ).

you could also approach with buffered moves. jabs would be your fastest option.

 

[themrskills]

I pk fire spam at mid range against rangeless characters to force an approach, and against ranged characters I will generally bat back any non-energy projectiles and absorb any energy projectiles. Lucas is good at forcing approaches.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

I pk fire spam at mid range against rangeless characters to force an approach, and against ranged characters I will generally bat back any non-energy projectiles and absorb any energy projectiles. Lucas is good at forcing approaches.

lol he plays luigi not lucas.
anywhoo...
cyclone is good when it's unpredicted. if not you will get sheilgrabbed if you're within grabbing range when you end the move.
SHAD --> buffered grab/pivot grab
ffair???
not too sure about ffair

i'm pretty sure cyclone only clanks with the purple pikmin
he goes straight through the other pikmin.

 

[soccerdude7200]

I pk fire spam at mid range against rangeless characters to force an approach, and against ranged characters I will generally bat back any non-energy projectiles and absorb any energy projectiles. Lucas is good at forcing approaches.

umm
wrong place dude.
lol

 

[ALiAsVee]

a reliable approach that all luigi's know is the dair>nair (dnair, right elheber ).

you could also approach with buffered moves. jabs would be your fastest option.

Thats not very reliable. Just bait with fireballs and look for attack patterns to approach.

 

[elheber]

dnAir or other Aerials that end with nAir are good ONLY if your opponent isn't Shield Grabbing.

Luigi approaches with Short Hop Aerials. That doesn't change. Mix it up, space, and use mindgames. By "mix it up", I mean attack in different ways (like Double Aerials, Fireballs, FFADs, Grounded Cyclones, Buffered Attacks). If you count his Double Aerials (like dfAir, dnAir, ffAir, etc.), Luigi has more Aerial options than anyone else, so mixing up should be easier. By "spacing", of course I mean keep yourself at the distance you're comfortable with, and not the distance your opponent is comfortable with. And by "mindgames", I mean fake them out. People often roll into Luigi's attacks if you make them think you're going to approach. So SH dAir FFAD in place once in a while.

 

[Player01]

Thats not very reliable. Just bait with fireballs and look for attack patterns to approach.

ok reliable might not have been the right word but its a common approach that i see a lot.

 

[soccerdude7200]

ok
im new to luigi and i see "FFAD" a lot
what does that mean?
...kinda off topic, i know

 

[Mith_]

FFAD = Fast Fall Air Dodge.

 

[soccerdude7200]

FFAD = Fast Fall Air Dodge.

k thx.
ive been wondering for a while.

 

[ALiAsVee]

ok reliable might not have been the right word but its a common approach that i see a lot.

Common is what makes it not work ><. I love that set up but its really hard to land it nowadays.

 

[elheber]

Man I should really make a topic on it.

FFAD means Fast Fall Air Dodge. Luigi can easily fit 2 Aerials in one Short Hop, but if instead of the second Aerial you do a Fast Fall, Luigi will quickly land with very little lag. Moreover, if you Air Dodge the Fast Fall, you'll have some invincibility on the way down AND let you Buffer the next move you do. Look at the following video; after Luigi's takes one of Link's stock, he will celebrate with Short Hop dAir FFADs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt53flmF2m0

Buffering means inputing the next move before Luigi is finished with the current move, and having it come out automatically right after the current move is finished. The easiest way to Buffer is by landing in the middle of an Air Dodge. To do an easy one, do a SH Aerial, Air Dodge (not Fast Falled), and in the middle of your Air Dodge tap A. As soon as he lands, Luigi will Jab, even though you pressed A a long time ago. By Buffering, you make sure you don't waste any time between your moves. FFADs let you Buffer easily.

 

[LuigiKing]

Dair and fireballs mixed with an occasional tornado are all a good Luigi will ever ever ever need to approach. I'm actually serious. These three moves used properly are perfect for approaching and baiting. Short hop Dair to fireball over and over, just get a little closer every time. Keep spaced properly and trade a fireball for a tornado when they don't expect it. Too good.

Also, I should make a super topic about all my Luigi secrets someday... someday =p

 

[Delta_BP26]

On that note, D-Air also destroys ledgecampers/hoppers. They can jump and gain invincibility frames, but the starting lag lasts while they're invincible, so it's impossible to avoid. The tornado owns Olimar in particular, as well as a SHFnair which while kill all his Pikmin.

 

[hippiedude92]

Luigi highly revolves around SH approachs. He can do a fireball to bait/ tornado for ground approach. Hes predictablity really hurts him honestly. Anyways I like following this summary of OS's which I think is accurate (Look at the bolded i did)

You can get out of it before 30%; I know I did that lal the time with ROB before 30% anyway. After that, one hit + d-throw worked a lot.


Anyway, synopsis:


Luigi, like a few other rare characters, runs hot and cold. When he's doing well, he's doing WELL. Incredibly amazing KO potential with his crazy up+b (so much better than rest) that can be done out of a jab combo if your opponent doesn't DI, great combo potential, the ability to approach with one aerial and retreat with another all in the same jump, the ability to shield an attack then slide far away to prevent shield pressure... these all help him. On the flipside, his poor recovery (edgeguarding-wise, not distance-wise), his poor OOS options, his predictability, and his poor recovery all hurt him.

Luigi is a character that can be "mastered" very easily in terms of offensive capability. Defensively is a whole other matter and is what will really set apart the good Luigi's from the bad. Even the worst Luigi's will get a jab to up+b off from time to him, or perhaps edgeguard with a series of bairs. Simple things like finding out how strong his f-smash is can make the worst Luigi player dangerous... but unfortunately, this merely clouds the waters. The best Luigi players will be the ones that always get back to the stage and have found ways to reliably approach and to create openings rather than capitalize on enemy mistakes.

Point is: Be creative, be approach artist with luigi. Luigi is predictable, but thus far is really good.

 

[Daichi]

Dair and fireballs mixed with an occasional tornado are all a good Luigi will ever ever ever need to approach. I'm actually serious. These three moves used properly are perfect for approaching and baiting. Short hop Dair to fireball over and over, just get a little closer every time. Keep spaced properly and trade a fireball for a tornado when they don't expect it. Too good.

Also, I should make a super topic about all my Luigi secrets someday... someday =p

i'd appreciate it. Since nobody pays attention to weegee, i'm having problems picking him up. oh also, have you ever tried jab->dtilt->upb on a real player? i get it to work on some players when i do it right, but i dont exactly play pros. So yeah, is there any merit in that combo?

 

[LuigiKing]

i'd appreciate it. Since nobody pays attention to weegee, i'm having problems picking him up. oh also, have you ever tried jab->dtilt->upb on a real player? i get it to work on some players when i do it right, but i dont exactly play pros. So yeah, is there any merit in that combo?

No. Quite frankly it is a bit too risky on human players, I wouldn't bother. However what I do use is Jab -> Dtilt -> Dsmash. It is waaaay more reliable, and is great at racking up damage, just not killing. I have landed the uppercut variant on people before, but really, I wouldn't risk it when there is just no need... Yerp.

 

[soccerdude7200]

to LuigiKing:
You should make a topic about your secrets. I think it would be very beneficial to the Luigi community.

 

[Daichi]

No. Quite frankly it is a bit too risky on human players, I wouldn't bother. However what I do use is Jab -> Dtilt -> Dsmash. It is waaaay more reliable, and is great at racking up damage, just not killing. I have landed the uppercut variant on people before, but really, I wouldn't risk it when there is just no need... Yerp.

what i find is that if the dtilt causes the opponent to trip, the uppercut will hit, and you can rightfully yell "SHORYUKEN!!". but seeing as its pretty hard to tell when they trip from it when you have to react to option a or b in such short time, i guess jab->dtilt->dsmash works.

now what would be crzy, is if we could get jab->dtilt->jab->dtilt... you get where i'm going.

 

[ALiAsVee]

Dair and fireballs mixed with an occasional tornado are all a good Luigi will ever ever ever need to approach. I'm actually serious. These three moves used properly are perfect for approaching and baiting. Short hop Dair to fireball over and over, just get a little closer every time. Keep spaced properly and trade a fireball for a tornado when they don't expect it. Too good.

Also, I should make a super topic about all my Luigi secrets someday... someday =p

We are so unorganized its hard to tell what has already been estblished to the community and what hasn't, I don't think Luigi is newb-friendly for that reasons; its usually the guys who worked and made up their own idea about Luigi that mostly post on the boards.

On that note, D-Air also destroys ledgecampers/hoppers. They can jump and gain invincibility frames, but the starting lag lasts while they're invincible, so it's impossible to avoid. The tornado owns Olimar in particular, as well as a SHFnair which while kill all his Pikmin.

The tornado will get you punished if you don't land every hit. You really need that last punch with the extra knockback so you can make it through its landing lag without getting counter-attacked. Doing that however almost always requires landing every blow from the start; if you don't, it's quite easy to space and powershield the last hit.

Isn't it technically considered "The Luigi CYCLONE?" No one calls it that on the board, myself included lol. Yes I had to point that one out.

Fireball > Non-FFed Dair Spike = Safe approach when on the offensive ledge game. Unless they have a Fair that out prioritizes you. Can you RAR off of a ledge hop?

Luigi highly revolves around SH approachs. He can do a fireball to bait/ tornado for ground approach. Hes predictablity really hurts him honestly. Anyways I like following this summary of OS's which I think is accurate (Look at the bolded i did)





Point is: Be creative, be approach artist with luigi. Luigi is predictable, but thus far is really good.

QFT

i'd appreciate it. Since nobody pays attention to weegee, i'm having problems picking him up. oh also, have you ever tried jab->dtilt->upb on a real player? i get it to work on some players when i do it right, but i dont exactly play pros. So yeah, is there any merit in that combo?

Replace UpB with a Fsmash against moderate sized people, its safer and faster. Or try an UpB and do a Jab (two frames). Unless you are fighting people with excellent prediction/reflexes, you can either get a jabgrab or a quick UpAngled Fsmash.

Bask in the glory of the multi quote.

 

[Daichi]

Replace UpB with a Fsmash against moderate sized people, its safer and faster. Or try an UpB and do a Jab (two frames). Unless you are fighting people with excellent prediction/reflexes, you can either get a jabgrab or a quick UpAngled Fsmash.

Bask in the glory of the multi quote.

i remember i used to do jab->dtilt->up angled fsmash when i first started weegee, not sure why i stopped.

But yeah thats for all the input guys. the Mario-to-luigi transition is more awkward than you'd think.

 

[ALiAsVee]

i remember i used to do jab->dtilt->up angled fsmash when i first started weegee, not sure why i stopped.

But yeah thats for all the input guys. the Mario-to-luigi transition is more awkward than you'd think.

UpAngled sometimes doesn't land for me, cause my enemy is short ><. Mario and Luigi play too differently, yet they are so similar, I could never second Mario.

 

[Eten]

I don't see the whole Jab->dtilt thing. It works the other way around, dtilt almost always combos into a jab, but their just is a tiny bit too little hitstun between the jab and the dtilt to link them together that way. I get my dtilt shielded by everybody if I try to use it after a jab.

For approaching, just put out a lot of hitboxes and keep yourself moving about by doing short hop aerials, don't give them any lag to give them a window to hit you and mix in some falling tornadoes into the ground for sudden and unpredictable speed. I only fireball when my opponent is being really campy or is winding up laggy moves or something, and then I'll get into that fireball range where you just keep tossing them until your opponent moves.