Approach Options against D3 on FD

[Magus-Cie]

Title says it all really.

I play very often against a D3 main and a Lucas/Ness main. We are playing one night and the D3 main goes into a sort of zen mode, and essentially realizes how easy a matchup it is for him. Between waddle dee spam, D3s ftilt, and his bair, I cannot get near him. My only luck has been the occasional jump past him and dair, and I am trying to figure out some way that I can approach if not reliably, at least without opening myself up to punishment so often. Other levels with platforms and the like approaches with aerials and gerudo are much more viable, but not on FD.

So far my thoughts have been:

Jump past him and do a gerudo at SHGerudo height.

SH Dair works once in a blue moon.

Bair when I jump past him.

???

So many of GDorf's moves are easily read, so I can't think of many options.

 

[Bahamut777]

I also have (somewhat) the same trouble. My personal solution, even if it isn't the best, is the following:

-At the start of the match, make your way to about 1 roll away from one of the edges (a little less, I suggest) and stay there (no matter what happens in the world!). This "prevents" the chain grab.
-Wait for the spam to begin
--If it's Waddle Doo, stomp them and hope for a Gordo not to come. If D3 doesn't know about the flying Doos "bug" and attempts to throw the third one, punish him with all your might.
--If it's FTilt, spotdodge the first one and reverse jump over the second one and try to hit D3 with Tipman, wich will give you a good spacing over the FTilt.
--If it's BAir, crouch the first one and if you ge thit by fastfalling, midair jump with FAir. Chances are that you hit and lag inside the stage, but with the opponent suffering from the FAir. UAir and NAir are also good. If he didn't hit you with the first one, spot dodge the second one and THEN hit him with UAir.
-If D3 know your game, he'll sit and wait for you to approach recklessly. If there's no way around it, fake some overspaced aerials and try to predict if he pulls out the shield. If he trys to pull the shieldgrab over your not-hitting aerials, then approach him with Aerudo. If he tryes to spotdodge->Grab, then do a SHFF and then a SHAerudo, thus covering both the spotdodge and the grab. If he pulls out the running grab, SHAD over him and then Aerudo.
-In case you get CGbed, wait for D3 to follow with BAir (most common FU after CG) and midair jump->Stomp him. PREDICT the BAir and don't wait for it to happen.

This only works untill the player fins out the pattern. After that... mindgame yourself.

 

[Noobicidal]

Q&A thread.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=211352

 

[Breezy]

Ban FD.
10duhs

 

[@HomE]

WALK.... not run..

and PS all the Waddles, they are probably one of the easiest projectiles in the game for me to PS...

SHAD alot...

 

[A2ZOMG]

You should powershield his Waddle Dees and F-tilt and punish when you are in mid range, and for the most part, those moves should not actually bother you at all. His B-air should be punished when he whiffs. Fullhop N-air and U-air are really useful in this matchup (I'd suggest practicing the latter one a lot, since if you do it right, it's pretty legit for making yourself hard to shieldgrab), and SH B-air autocanceled is safe on block. I also find DDD to be a pretty easy target for F-airs as long as you call the whiff.

I think this is one of Ganon's better matchups against high tiers personally, since if you actually manage to get a lead, there is very little DDD can do in general since he has no approach or respectable projectile camping. If you don't let him frustrate you into making reckless approaches, this matchup is tolerable.

Well of course, it sucks a bit more on FD...but still, the same fundamentals for approaching DDD apply. Don't get reckless, and you can avoid the ****.

 

[Magus-Cie]

Random question I never bothered thinking about. Is D3's ftilt a lingering hitbox? If not...

I just always assumed it was from the animation.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah, his F-tilt is a lingering hitbox.

Powershielding it is ideal when you get in mid range. Alternatively you can outspace him with F-air.

 

[Magus-Cie]

Outspace his ftilt with fair? *is confused*

I try for SHDairs when I can reliably get over his ftilt with em. Either he gets knocked into the air, or he tries to shield and because of the strength of Ganon's beard, gets slid out of grab range.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Jump over a predicted move and F-air. Simple as that. Kinda like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwVG8JS18NQ#t=2m10s

 

[Superspright]

I like to do FHdairs, into another FHdair. Then FF into more dair!

I thunderstorm really hard, and fast.

 

[@HomE]

A mix-up I've used recently with Fair..

FullHop then Fastfall halfway to the ground, cancel the FF with a ShortHop and then Fair at the peak and FF again..

If you do it fast its a decent mindgame, can let you space your Fair better, and the height I get after the SH seems to be perfect for a FF Fair..


so in short FH -> FF -> SH (before you hit the ground) -> Fair(at peak of SH) -> FF -> ****

Seems to work for me..

 

[Hobs]

A mix-up I've used recently with Fair..

FullHop then Fastfall halfway to the ground, cancel the FF with a ShortHop and then Fair at the peak and FF again..

If you do it fast its a decent mindgame, can let you space your Fair better, and the height I get after the SH seems to be perfect for a FF Fair..


so in short FH -> FF -> SH (before you hit the ground) -> Fair(at peak of SH) -> FF -> ****

Seems to work for me..

Wait, I thought you can only autocancel fair if you doublejump at the peak of your full jump. ??

Jump over a predicted move and F-air. Simple as that. Kinda like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwVG8JS18NQ#t=2m10s

And what if that DDD hesitated another moment (in that long pause), shielded your fair, and... did things to you? Kinda risky to try a fair only on prediction, don't you think?

 

[Breezy]

And what if that DDD hesitated another moment (in that long pause), shielded your fair, and... did things to you? Kinda risky to try a fair only on prediction, don't you think?

We use Ganondorf. We've long ago lost the meaning of "risk".

 

[A2ZOMG]

And what if that DDD hesitated another moment (in that long pause), shielded your fair, and... did things to you? Kinda risky to try a fair only on prediction, don't you think?

What is DDD even going to punish you with? The worst case scenario is that he grabs you far away from the edge. If he manages to spotdodge the F-air early enough he *might* be able to D-smash, but otherwise I don't see why this is a bad strategy, considering how easy it is to space F-air on him and due to how DDD lacks a really safe approach.

The matchup is only bad because Ganon sucks and has a horrible recovery, otherwise DDD is a pretty overrated character that lacks real offensive options or solid KO strategies, so the matchup imo is manageable.

 

[@HomE]

Wait, I thought you can only autocancel fair if you doublejump at the peak of your full jump. ??

lol.. you cant AC Fair... this is just a mix up instead of just a FH FF'd Fair, and i like the spacing more..

 

[PK-ow!]

D3 is one of the characters that really sucks after you choke him.

It's tight to do choke -> choke when you read a GU attack on wake-up, but its doable. Just run and B-reverse the Choke.

Also, I think Dedede's fat *** doesn't get pushed over when you do this, so unlike some characters, it does end only when you react wrong (not that there's a practical difference, but ****, those 7-choke chains are still orgasmic when you hit them).


The key is really not to get overeager when he goes into the air (which will be from your attacks only, of course), and just brutalize him when he comes down, where he has no options.




And Inferno below, don't let him recover if he has to use Up-B. Flay that ****.



Above all, remember that your opponent is bored out of his mind, and everything you do is infinitely more epic (literally; his attacks have 0 epicness). His ftilts and CGs mean nothing, remember that. Make it true; you have to.
You're practically guaranteed the hype in the matchup. There is no such thing as a Dedede main.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Above all, remember that your opponent is bored out of his mind, and everything you do is infinitely more epic (literally; his attacks have 0 epicness). His ftilts and CGs mean nothing, remember that. Make it true; you have to.
You're practically guaranteed the hype in the matchup. There is no such thing as a Dedede main.

True DDD mains will spam Jet hammer. =P

 

[Magus-Cie]

For the friendly tourney I actually switched over to GnW, and from doing so I think I have a better idea of how to space. Granted you cannot FH -> Bair over and over like you can with GnW, but I can see how you can do the FH > FF > SH > Fair > Fastfall. Especially since he is conditioned to spam ftilt against my GDorf. I will have to practice it a bit.

Also, running into a D3 FSmash as Gdorf...not so bad unless you are at 100%. Running into an FSmash as GnW....lulz