Apex 2015 Results

[Utena]

@ BurstPanther and @ Utena you two are acting like kids:

Utena: any decent competitive player doesn't go to game 5 on purpose nor they will fight even if only 30 seconds are missing, they will do the optimal play which in this case it's to run and stall the time. These people are playing to win not to please the crowd, get over it. And while Smash 4 isn't as hype as something like Melee, it is a competitive game like any other Smash game and calling it an uncompetitive game is disrespectful to any professional Smash 4 player.

i play smash 4 and brawl lmao.

sm4sh sets are slow and go to time because of bad game design, and the apex Bo5 ruleset didnt help it either. like you said, running and stalling is a good strategy in sm4sh, and its just not exciting. that doesnt mean its not competitive, but its a bad game to stream because its so boring to watch. Did you see the stream chat? no one was hyped. Anyone who cared could watch the youtube videos the day afterward. People were tuning in for melee, and it was sad watching the viewer count drop the closer it finally got to grand finals because it took sm4sh players well over 4 minutes to take two stocks (not to mention the coaching...).

 

[Hapajin]

Did Plup play Melee singles??

Also props to PP! so proud

 

[J.P]

sm4sh sets are slow and go to time because of bad game design, and the apex Bo5 ruleset didnt help it either. like you said, running and stalling is a good strategy in sm4sh, and its just not exciting. that doesnt mean its not competitive, but its a bad game to stream because its so boring to watch. Did you see the stream chat? no one was hyped. Anyone who cared could watch the youtube videos the day afterward. People were tuning in for melee, and it was sad watching the viewer count drop the closer it finally got to grand finals because it took sm4sh players well over 4 minutes to take two stocks (not to mention the coaching...).

sm4sh ruined the stream. Bo5 was idiotic and dabuz is so annoying. stop taking every set to time and game 5. the game isnt competitive, hype, or fun to watch.

What?

 

[J.P]

sm4sh ruined the stream. Bo5 was idiotic and dabuz is so annoying. stop taking every set to time and game 5. the game isnt competitive, hype, or fun to watch.

sm4sh sets are slow and go to time because of bad game design, and the apex Bo5 ruleset didnt help it either. like you said, running and stalling is a good strategy in sm4sh, and its just not exciting. that doesnt mean its not competitive, but its a bad game to stream because its so boring to watch. Did you see the stream chat? no one was hyped. Anyone who cared could watch the youtube videos the day afterward. People were tuning in for melee, and it was sad watching the viewer count drop the closer it finally got to grand finals because it took sm4sh players well over 4 minutes to take two stocks (not to mention the coaching...).

EDIT: Sorry for double post.

 

[BurstPanther]

@ BurstPanther and @ Utena you two are acting like kids:

Utena: any decent competitive player doesn't go to game 5 on purpose nor they will fight even if only 30 seconds are missing, they will do the optimal play which in this case it's to run and stall the time. These people are playing to win not to please the crowd, get over it. And while Smash 4 isn't as hype as something like Melee, it is a competitive game like any other Smash game and calling it an uncompetitive game is disrespectful to any professional Smash 4 player.

Brust Panther: Calling someone a Melee elitist fanboy just because he heavily dislikes Smash 4 is a really annoying habit that most Smash 4/ Brawl players have. If there is something that really grinds my gears is the people that automatically think you are a Melee elitist because you make a criticism to Brawl/ Smash 4. Please don't call him like that when you don't know anything about him.

Did you read the earlier comments? Saying a particular game 'ruined' a stream is not criticism, it's a fan boy opinion which in this case is wrong.

Saying the game is slow, saying it has a lack of movement options, these are criticisms.

I have played all the smashes at different times, and i value each one differently.

 

[GoriyaNexas]

Can I just throw something out there?

I enjoyed the crap out of the Sm4sh streams, the matches seemed very close, minus the 2nd round of the grand finale, where ZeRo two-lived dabuz.

If I can sit down and enjoy livestreams of competitive Sm4sh quite a bit and not get bored, that's good enough for me, that's one of the criticisms many people had with Brawl after all, that is was difficult to properly set up some kind of competitive community with it. Sm4sh fixed that with flying colors.

I fail to see what people are freaking out about, Sm4sh isn't as fast as Melee or Project M, sure, but it's still clearly a fun and competitive game.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Can I just throw something out there?

I enjoyed the crap out of the Sm4sh streams, the matches seemed very close, minus the 2nd round of the grand finale, where ZeRo two-lived dabuz.

If I can sit down and enjoy livestreams of competitive Sm4sh quite a bit and not get bored, that's good enough for me, that's one of the criticisms many people had with Brawl after all, that is was difficult to properly set up some kind of competitive community with it. Sm4sh fixed that with flying colors.

I fail to see what people are freaking out about, Sm4sh isn't as fast as Melee or Project M, sure, but it's still clearly a fun and competitive game.

I think that people were mostly annoyed that it was extremely late and Bo5 + Defensive playstyles didn't help. It was more of a bad schedule planning, but considering what happened, I can't blame anyone.

I mean, if everything followed the schedule, the haters wouldn't even had to watch Smash 4 at all. Just turn it on at the right time and boom, problem solved.

I was actually pretty hyped to see good footage from Smash 4, despite the fact that I was on twitch chat cheering for the players to end this quickly. (Except for GF's, I really liked ZeRo's Offensive style and he was playing really well)

You can't deny that waiting for midnight to start Melee's top 8 wasn't anything close to reasonable though.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

@ BurstPanther and @ Utena you two are acting like kids:

Utena: any decent competitive player doesn't go to game 5 on purpose nor they will fight even if only 30 seconds are missing, they will do the optimal play which in this case it's to run and stall the time. These people are playing to win not to please the crowd, get over it. And while Smash 4 isn't as hype as something like Melee, it is a competitive game like any other Smash game and calling it an uncompetitive game is disrespectful to any professional Smash 4 player.

Brust Panther: Calling someone a Melee elitist fanboy just because he heavily dislikes Smash 4 is a really annoying habit that most Smash 4/ Brawl players have. If there is something that really grinds my gears is the people that automatically think you are a Melee elitist because you make a criticism to Brawl/ Smash 4. Please don't call him like that when you don't know anything about him.

Why didn't this get anymore likes? Seriously, petty arguments and unconstructive feedback does nothing for Apex or the Smash community. Personal attacks, baseless accusations, and ignorance/lack of respect is what ruins the community and furthers the divide. It gets tiring fast.

Why is this a problem?

 

[GoriyaNexas]

I think that people were mostly annoyed that it was extremely late and Bo5 + Defensive playstyles didn't help. It was more of a bad schedule planning, but considering what happened, I can't blame anyone.

I mean, if everything followed the schedule, the haters wouldn't even had to watch Smash 4 at all. Just turn it on at the right time and boom, problem solved.

I was actually pretty hyped to see good footage from Smash 4, despite the fact that I was on twitch chat cheering for the players to end this quickly. (Except for GF's, I really liked ZeRo's Offensive style and he was playing really well)

You can't deny that waiting for midnight to start Melee's top 8 wasn't anything close to reasonable though.

I suppose that explains most of the Melee fans being cranky...still saddens me when people call a game not competitive due to a late stream though.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I suppose that explains most of the Melee fans being cranky...still saddens me when people call a game not competitive due to a late stream though.

Well, unfortunately I think that people call any competitive game that favors defense over offense not competitive. This really needs to stop.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

There were tons of things Apex could of done but what happened happened and hopefully Apex is able to improve for next year. As well, there were a lot of factors that shouldn't be blamed on Apex outright.

What grinds my gears is just the obvious lack of respect towards Smash 4 from Melee players. It happened to Brawl, happened to Smash 4, and it will happen to the next game if it's made. I feel this mentality should change.

 

[Utena]

the greatest part about all this is im allowed to say smash 4 sucks and i dont really care what any of you think about my opinion.

also who cares about a dividing the community, its always gonna be divided. What game can survive on its own? Melee. See y'all in year or two when sm4sh gets dropped from major events and melee is still going strong.

 

[stancosmos]

the greatest part about all this is im allowed to say smash 4 sucks and i dont really care what any of you think about my opinion.

also who cares about a dividing the community, its always gonna be divided. What game can survive on its own? Melee. See y'all in year or two when sm4sh gets dropped from major events and melee is still going strong.

You're just a ****ty dude, it's not really about what games you like or don't like. there's a proper way to voice an opinion and incite discussion, and then there's your mindless babbling. Pick whichever game you want to be your favorite, who cares. But if you're just planning on harping about which game "sucks" all you're doing is making yourself look dumb.

 

[Utena]

i will beat you in smash 4, lets money match

 

[RosalinaSama]

Does anyone know if Ally was using Snake in Brawl singles? I love watching his Snake and it would be awesome to see it if its recorded

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

the greatest part about all this is im allowed to say smash 4 sucks and i dont really care what any of you think about my opinion.

also who cares about a dividing the community, its always gonna be divided. What game can survive on its own? Melee. See y'all in year or two when sm4sh gets dropped from major events and melee is still going strong.

Division is alright as long as the division doesn't prevent the growth of either side. The Melee, P:M, Brawl, and Smash 4 competitive scenes are different yet belong under the Super Smash Bros. umbrella and are connected together in more ways than one....regardless what one might think.

But when people try to enforce their ideology and try to sabotage a fledgling competitive scene while they have a matured and perfected competitive scene is just repulsive. People are just as much allowed to enjoy Melee as they are allowed to enjoy P:M as well as Smash 4. So someone prefers playing Smash 4 competitive over Melee. Why does that matter and why does it make it their job to tear that down because "it sucks". That is an immature and selfish way to approach this issue and one that should be frowned down/discouraged/removed from the Super Smash Bros. community.

Smash 4 is just in the beginning phase of it's meta game while Melee has had a decade to evolve its meta game. One thing I don't understand is why Smash 4 doesn't live up to the hype/perform to expectations to a certain crowd and therefore they call for it to be dropped from tournaments. That doesn't make any sense and simply isn't fair to the community.

 

[Phoenix502]

...leave it to the extremely toxic minority of the melee community to give the rest of them a bad name.

given my experience with online smash the past few weeks, I think some people bash it because they aren't willing to try and adjust to the new engine... they took the time to improve in melee, they're good at it and they know it, and their being so good at winning in Melee inflates their egos. they'd rather rage and whine than learn how to adapt, cause if they aren't winning, it's the game's fault, "it's not Melee, so it sucks."

but... this is just my two cents. a grain of salt is advised. I love Sm4sh's competition, I seldom play melee and PM competitively only because I have trouble keeping up with more skilled players, I also have no in-person practice, so it's hard for me to maintain my skill level in PM and Melee, whereas Amiibos work wonders for warming up in Sm4sh.

 

[Blackyoshika?]

I'm here to say this, SSB4 is in HD has a ton of characters, and it's super fun. I can't play melee anymore, looks like garbage, few characters, and there are only like 4 or 5 characters who are really competitive,

 

[SupaKMW]

You know....Smash 4 isn't even tapping into all its potential. There's still the custom equipment and customization to talk about. Why aren't these things legal? I think after EVO we should take a year to experiment with Smash 4 for real and quit trying to chase another game's shadow. Smash 4 isn't melee, or even brawl, we need to stop looking like it is. Melee has a ton of insane exploits to contribute to its meta, smash 4 doesn't. What smash 4 do have is a ton of options and customization begging to be experimented with....hell this game plays well enough to look good without it but now I say let's tap into it and see what we get out of it. Let Smash 4 be it's own game and play on its own strengths.

Edit: right right, smash 4 still does have a few exploits that can contribute to its meta as well, i.e perfect pivoit.

 

[SmashBro99]

Watching people lose a stock due to edgehogging is so exciting doe. Real fighting game here. hypeeee

If we could do that in Smash 4 the games would be faster, but I'd rather watch a game where you actually earn your kills, instead of denying your opponent the edge grab with invincibility lol.

When there is a kill set up in Melee its hype

When there is a kill set up in Smash 4 its boring

You guys are funneh

Plus melee looks like garbage now /shrug

 

[DavemanCozy]

>Melee vs the new Smash game

Some things just never change in smashboards

 

[Gardex]

Did @ Gardex go C Falcon in brawl doubles? That would have been awesome of him.

Did not, sadly. My Brawl-Falcon is pretty ruined after Smash 4-Falcon came around

 

[DIMREC]

yeah buddy

 

[Utena]

long boring bost.

why cant you just let me enjoy melee... all i ever said was sm4sh stream was boring and useless.

im not asking for sm4sh to be dropped from events, just saying it will be.
this says it all tbh....

also @ melee haters, i only seriously picked up melee like 6 months ago. I dumped more time into brawl than any other smash game, and sm4sh runs the same engine so im honestly more familiar with it than melee. Melee is straight up a better game.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Why can't we be friends?

 

[SupaKMW]

why cant you just let me enjoy melee... all i ever said was sm4sh stream was boring and useless.

im not asking for sm4sh to be dropped from events, just saying it will be.
this says it all tbh....

also @ melee haters, i only seriously picked up melee like 6 months ago. I dumped more time into brawl than any other smash game, and sm4sh runs the same engine so im honestly more familiar with it than melee. Melee is straight up a better game.

Camping play styles can still be punished. I like all smash but 4 is my favorite. It may not have dbz speed but it have mounds of untapped potential.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I dumped more time into brawl than any other smash game, and sm4sh runs the same engine so im honestly more familiar with it than melee.

I don't even ...

 

[Red Panda 0bjection]

Good year guys, hope next year's just as well.

.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

why cant you just let me enjoy melee... all i ever said was sm4sh stream was boring and useless.

im not asking for sm4sh to be dropped from events, just saying it will be.
this says it all tbh....

also @ melee haters, i only seriously picked up melee like 6 months ago. I dumped more time into brawl than any other smash game, and sm4sh runs the same engine so im honestly more familiar with it than melee. Melee is straight up a better game.

You are free to like and play Melee as much as you want and I'm not advocating to getting you to stop. I encourage you to continue with Melee.

Melee is superior competitively but we are still just starting Smash 4's meta game so I feel it's just too early to write off Smash 4 as being dropped from events. Give it some time and an optimistic approach.

I agree that you didn't ask it to be dropped but there are certain individuals who are asking just that. These jumping-the-gun viewpoints on Smash 4 stating/wishing it will be dropped is ammo for those who want to see it dropped in upcoming events. Like I'm seeing calls for Evo 2015 to drop it.

I usually disagree a lot on Leffen, as a person and what he says, but I agree with his analysis on Smash 4. If Smash 4 turns out as a dud competetive, I imagine the community will work around that like what happened with P:M. However, I don't want it to have the stigma Brawl had. Like if you play Smash 4, you are seen as a filthy casual who has no idea on the glory that is advanced techniques and high level play.

People chanting "Melee" during the Smash 4 matches reminds me of the "**** Brawl" chants from way back when.

 

[Utena]

1. project m dev team straight up said they will not mod smash 4 also we have no wii u homebrew.
2. smash 4 does run the same engine as brawl
3. if theres mounds of untapped potential it didnt show at apex 2015.

 

[ShadyWolfe]

And no one complains that Ganondorf's dirty hit D-Spec can kill at MUCH earlier percents? Or that Charizard's U-Air can actually kill at a lower percent than Diddy's U-Air?

No, I'm serious, the former definitely kills at around 70% from where as high as Diddy can jump. Ganondorf would send Diddy to the ultimate meaning of irony and hate with D-Spec's non-meteor hitbox. U-Air may be powerful, but at higher percents around 70-80 percent, if Diddy Kong tries using it with Double Jump against Ganondorf, Diddy can kiss a stock goodbye.

I think people don't have as much of a problem with them due to their clear weaknesses like both have lag for a lot of their attacks and are easily juggled and both have some problems getting in especially Ganondorf who also has terrible recovery.

 

[SupaKMW]

1. project m dev team straight up said they will not mod smash 4 also we have no wii u homebrew.
2. smash 4 does run the same engine as brawl
3. if theres mounds of untapped potential it didnt show at apex 2015.

I wonder if Melee looked this good around the same timeframe Smash 4 have been out now lmao.

I also wonder what the inclusion of customs/mii would do the meta. As I said, untapped potential. Smash 4 =/= Melee, Brawl.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

1. project m dev team straight up said they will not mod smash 4 also we have no wii u homebrew.
2. smash 4 does run the same engine as brawl
3. if theres mounds of untapped potential it didnt show at apex 2015.

1. I never stated that the M dev team would be responsible. If there is a call and a desire to bring Smash 4 up to speed competitively, then people will see it done. Once we figure out how to mod the Wii U (which is looking possible), then talks can begin to maybe do a P:M-like version for Smash 4 with or without that team. There are other members of the community with that experience and talent.

2. I am well aware of that.

3.

we are still just starting Smash 4's meta game so I feel it's just too early to write off Smash 4 as being dropped from events. Give it some time and an optimistic approach.

does not equal to

if theres mounds of untapped potential

. Investigating the meta game takes at least a full year to evolve and be studied. Melee's meta game has had over a decade hence why it's so perfected. Smash 4 was just released back in November. While it didn't exceed expectations at Apex, it is still too early to damn the game to the same fate as Brawl. Smash 4 may have some potential that hasn't been discovered yet. If Smash 4 does poorly at Evo, then we can begin to discuss the fate of Smash 4's competitive scene. In addition, patches are still coming out so there's hope in that.

 

[DavemanCozy]

2. smash 4 does run the same engine as brawl

I know that, but implying that you understand Smash4 better just because you "dumped more time into Brawl" and it uses the same engine is what I was pointing out.

Because that's what is ridiculous. While they're definitely similar, they are not the same game.

 

[Utena]

I know that, but implying that you understand Smash4 better just because you "dumped more time into Brawl" and it uses the same engine is what I was pointing out.

Because that's what is ridiculous. While they're definitely similar, they are not the same game.

how is that ridiculous...? if you played a lot of halo you were probably pretty good at halo 2 when it came out without much practice. just saying sm4sh was an easier game for me to pick up and be good at than melee, but i still much prefer melee. id rather play the game i suck at because its better. sorry that youre apparently braindead

 

[DavemanCozy]

how is that ridiculous...? if you played a lot of halo you were probably pretty good at halo 2 when it came out without much practice. just saying sm4sh was an easier game for me to pick up and be good at than melee, but i still much prefer melee. id rather play the game i suck at because its better. sorry that youre apparently braindead

Except no, I also played a lot of Halo competitively, and saying you were good at Halo 3 meant nothing about how good you were in Halo 2 or Halo Reach.

Sorry that you feel the need to insult me to feel better about yourself.

 

[SupaKMW]

Why can't we be friends?

Folks don't know how to be passionate without being disrespectful. That's why....

 

[Seraphim7]

Kinda upset Brawl didn't get any spotlight even though it was its last big run.

 

[Phoenix502]

1. project m dev team straight up said they will not mod smash 4 also we have no wii u homebrew.
2. smash 4 does run the same engine as brawl
3. if theres mounds of untapped potential it didnt show at apex 2015.

1. given the customization options Smash 4 already has, the only thing that codecrackers aught to do is provide the ability to generate equipment sets the online system will see as legit. once that's said and done, the possibilities are endless.

2. I'll go out on a limb and assume you make this claim cause there's no Melee techs. if you were to have mario jump in both Brawl and Smash 4,, Smash 4 will land sooner than Brawl., then have Mario deal as much damage to a level 9 AI as possible withing ten seconds. Smash 4 will be more likely to land more hits in succession.

3. did you know Marth was considered a noob fighter before Ken came around?, and where on the tier list do you think puff and the Ice Climbers were in the very first year of Melee? how would you feel if, and think about this hypothetically, the 64 community bashed Melee and people said all the stuff you're saying about Smash 4? you'd defend Melee and say "give it a chance", wouldn't you?

or are you the kind of person to say "you 64 trash can rot in a hole, I like melee, so there."

 

[Utena]

this is hilarious... i used to not understand melee elitism but now it all makes sense.