• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Anything Can Change! Chrom for SSB4 - Closing Remarks, and an Invitation

Status
Not open for further replies.

Pokechu

chugga chugga
Moderator
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
5,814
Location
Moo Moo Meadows
NNID
Pokechu
3DS FC
5000-1894-6879
Switch FC
SW-7547-3301-4325
you keep believing that. Because, say, getting Tingle over Pig Ganon would be alright; or getting Caterpie instead of Mewtwo; or getting Anthony higgs over Ridley. but whatever.

Does anybody have any ideas on how to make the Lightsphere/Argent into a viable weapon? it would be super awkward to have Chrom using the other gems as his default move?
lol
your analogies
WAY OFF

I actually do support Tingle since he'd seem fun, but I don't play Zelda much, so I can't answer this. I don't know what either of them do.
Why would I support Caterpie instead of Mewtwo? Caterpie only shoots string.
I don't play Metroid, so I believe that Anthony would be a Samus clone.

you are not me, so you can not answer for me. thank you.
 
Last edited:

SmilingMad

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
1,491
lol
your analogies
WAY OFF

I actually do support Tingle since he'd seem fun, but I don't play Zelda much, so I can't answer this. I don't know what either of them do.
Tingle dances, floats about, sells maps. Not much really. He did get a spinoff game in which he...I don't know what he did. Shoot rupees? I guess you could get potential moves from there. Ganon has more of a chance as he is an iconic main villain, and being a boss already has way more in terms of possible attacks. It's odd how he's so much of an underdog and overlooked in favor of what I consider to be smaller characters in terms of importance.

But that ain't Chrom.
To be honest, I can kind of see why he wasn't put in the game. To me he feels very "grey", somewhat bland. I mean, I'm probably not right considering I haven't played FE:A (I must be missing out on a lot), but that's the first impression I get of him. He's very...neutral. Seemingly not exceptional enough. Sorry, I do not intend to offend anyone with this.
 

guedes the brawler

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
1,076
Location
Brazil. Sadly. Living here SUCKS!
NNID
Rafabrawl
Tingle dances, floats about, sells maps. Not much really. He did get a spinoff game in which he...I don't know what he did. Shoot rupees? I guess you could get potential moves from there. Ganon has more of a chance as he is an iconic main villain, and being a boss already has way more in terms of possible attacks. It's odd how he's so much of an underdog and overlooked in favor of what I consider to be smaller characters in terms of importance.

But that ain't Chrom.
To be honest, I can kind of see why he wasn't put in the game. To me he feels very "grey", somewhat bland. I mean, I'm probably not right considering I haven't played FE:A (I must be missing out on a lot), but that's the first impression I get of him. He's very...neutral. Seemingly not exceptional enough. Sorry, I do not intend to offend anyone with this.
Tingle has actually quite a bit of stuff from his games and the tingle Tuner from wind Waker. Of course, both Ganon and Ghirahim can manipulate small objects (swords/Bats) which opens a lot of possibilities, but raw stuff? Tingle has them beat.

which is no reason to add him over those 2, because he is almost meaningless to Zelda. but that doesn't matter to Sakurai, it seems. tragic.

Anyways, i've been thinking about the lightsphere for a bit, how about an "Aura" move that makes peole around chro slihglty slower? I mean, "terain bonuses" usually pertain to Hit and Dodge, making enemies have less speed emans they have more trouble... with hitting, and dodging. What do you guys think?

of course the idea is not complete, we'd need to kow how long the spell would take to activate, how long the effect would last and it's range,

The custom move possibilities for this, involving the other gems:

Azure: This move could only happen if Chrom has the weapons that aren't the falchion. True to what it did, his could, for a time, let Chrom attack with those weapons without them breaking
Gules: Heals Chrom after being cast for 20%. He probably shouldn't have any healing moves via Ex. Falchion or Vulneary.
Vert: Much wider aura (like heavenly Light) which deals fixed damage to everyone, even if they were shielding or blocking. 20% sounds okay
Sable: Chrom goes berserk, get increased damage and knockback; in compensation Chrom would turn much lighter and possibly take more damage than usual.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

Holy Maiden Warrior
Premium
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
8,992
Location
Marvel Land ~ Eternally Slumbering
NNID
IndyGo98
3DS FC
2793-0906-0731
Switch FC
SW-7670-7999-3483
Kinda sad to see how this thread is going on with salt on Chrom's deconfirmation still and arguing how he could have brought something to the table. I might not be surprised this would be how his support thread ends in the final note, but I'd be disappointed if so.

At the end, he's not gonna playable be in this game, and I'm quite unconfident he'll be picked up again too in next installments. So parroting over what happened is quite pointless. What are you trying to prove now that Sakurai even explictly stated he couldn't get Chrom to work?
 
Last edited:

Skyblade12

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
3,871
3DS FC
1547-6378-0895
Tingle dances, floats about, sells maps. Not much really. He did get a spinoff game in which he...I don't know what he did. Shoot rupees? I guess you could get potential moves from there. Ganon has more of a chance as he is an iconic main villain, and being a boss already has way more in terms of possible attacks. It's odd how he's so much of an underdog and overlooked in favor of what I consider to be smaller characters in terms of importance.
I still say Impa has the next best chance.

But that ain't Chrom.
To be honest, I can kind of see why he wasn't put in the game. To me he feels very "grey", somewhat bland. I mean, I'm probably not right considering I haven't played FE:A (I must be missing out on a lot), but that's the first impression I get of him. He's very...neutral. Seemingly not exceptional enough. Sorry, I do not intend to offend anyone with this.
You're kind of right in that regard. I do massively enjoy the character but he is kind of bland, especially compared to most of the Fire Emblem cast. He's a far more interesting character in the DLC (and his Supports with Olivia), where he gets to be hilarious and goofy.

But you need to go play FE:A (and the DLCs), so you can see all that for yourself.

He's not gonna be in this game, and I'm quite unconfident he'll be picked up again too. So parroting over what happened is quite pointless. What are you trying to prove now that Sakurai even explictly stated he couldn't get Chrom to work?
That they are better game/character designers than Sakurai, naturally.
 

SmilingMad

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
1,491
I still say Impa has the next best chance.
Still, it's weird how little people think of the main villain of the 2D games. I mean, it's gotten to the point he'd be a surprise character.

You're kind of right in that regard. I do massively enjoy the character but he is kind of bland, especially compared to most of the Fire Emblem cast. He's a far more interesting character in the DLC (and his Supports with Olivia), where he gets to be hilarious and goofy.
Yeah. It's some kind of protagonist neutrality thing, I expect the other members of the cast to have personalities that veer towards some sort of character archetype or stereotype or whatever you want to call it.
 

Skyblade12

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
3,871
3DS FC
1547-6378-0895
Yeah. It's some kind of protagonist neutrality thing, I expect the other members of the cast to have personalities that veer towards some sort of character archetype or stereotype or whatever you want to call it.
Pretty much. Long running trope in Fire Emblem. It's a way to get you to quickly identify with all the members of a huge cast, even though you only get them for much briefer times than you do in a typical RPG. Even Robin, in a similar role to Chrom, has a lot more personality.
 

guedes the brawler

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
1,076
Location
Brazil. Sadly. Living here SUCKS!
NNID
Rafabrawl
I still say Impa has the next best chance.

You're kind of right in that regard. I do massively enjoy the character but he is kind of bland, especially compared to most of the Fire Emblem cast. He's a far more interesting character in the DLC (and his Supports with Olivia), where he gets to be hilarious and goofy.

But you need to go play FE:A (and the DLCs), so you can see all that for yourself.

That they are better game/character designers than Sakurai, naturally.
i disagree with impa, simply because we already have 2 ninja-like characters. For smash 5 i can see some impa stuff based on Hw which might've come too late for it to make a difference (damn, they NEEd to at least bring a few songs, even if non-remixed. like that rock skyloft remix...)

I ado agree with the rest. Chrom is really at his best during character interactions, because he is a normal guy and just goes "what" to all the Owains of that army. but it's a pity they didn't give him as many support as the other normal character. Some of the Child paralogues have funny Chrom reactions. i do remember Wife!robin convos in the Summer DLc showing how much of a dork he is.

Kinda sad to see how this thread is going on with salt on Chrom's deconfirmation still and arguing how he could have brought something to the table. I might not be surprised this would be how his support thread ends in the final note, but I'd be disappointed if so.

He's not gonna be in this game, and I'm quite unconfident he'll be picked up again too. So parroting over what happened is quite pointless. What are you trying to prove now that Sakurai even explictly stated he couldn't get Chrom to work?
i question you on why do you care and why are you even coming here if you aren't contributing to anything and think this is all super useless.
 
Last edited:

Skyblade12

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
3,871
3DS FC
1547-6378-0895
i disagree with impa, simply because we already have 2 ninja-like characters. For smash 5 i can see some impa stuff based on Hw which might've come too late for it to make a difference (damn, they NEEd to at least bring a few songs, even if non-remixed. like that rock skyloft remix...)
Impa is not a ninja though. The vision for her held by the Zelda devs is very much that of a samurai and protector, not a shadow warrior, and that vision has been in place for longer than Hyrule Warriors. It probably would have been shared with Sakurai.

I ado agree with the rest. Chrom is really at his best during character interactions, because he is a normal guy and just goes "what" to all the Owains of that army. but it's a pity they didn't give him as many support as the other normal character. Some of the Child paralogues have funny Chrom reactions. i do remember Wife!robin convos in the Summer DLc showing how much of a dork he is.
Three words: Pega-Pony-Princess.

i question you on why do you care and why are you even coming here if you aren't contributing to anything and think this is all super useless.
I don't think he's useless, I just don't think he's a good fit for Smash Bros. compared to the Awakening reps we've already gotten. I'm a huge fan of everything Awakening (actually, almost everything related to Tactical RPGs).
 
Last edited:

guedes the brawler

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
1,076
Location
Brazil. Sadly. Living here SUCKS!
NNID
Rafabrawl
Impa is not a ninja though. The vision for her held by the Zelda devs is very much that of a samurai and protector, not a shadow warrior, and that vision has been in place for longer than Hyrule Warriors. It probably would have been shared with Sakurai.



Three words: Pega-Pony-Princess.



I don't think he's useless, I just don't think he's a good fit for Brawl compared to the Awakening reps we've already gotten. I'm a huge fan of everything Awakening (actually, almost everything related to Tactical RPGs).
Chrom would definitively be bad for Brawl, i agree.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

Holy Maiden Warrior
Premium
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
8,992
Location
Marvel Land ~ Eternally Slumbering
NNID
IndyGo98
3DS FC
2793-0906-0731
Switch FC
SW-7670-7999-3483
i question you on why do you care and why are you even coming here if you aren't contributing to anything and think this is all super useless.
I guess because it's making me cringe how there's still discussion over a matter that has been buried for good and doesn't have any relevancy towards this game. Though it's perhaps because I'm okay with what came to Chrom at the end, and we even got an FE-rep that brought more Fire Emblem to Smash more seamlessly than he could have, in my opinion. I'm now looking forward on Chrom Post-SSB4 and see what happens to him.
 

NATGamer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Messages
258
Location
New York
NNID
NATGamer
3DS FC
3737-9639-8538
Why does anyone actually think Sakurai would take a character who is apart of another's final smash and make him playable? We would have 3 versions of Marth on the roster! Besides, Sakurai already stated that he thinks Chrom has nothing unique about him. His opinion is what matters the most which means Chrom isn't ever going to be playable. Can people please stop being salty about him not being in? Thank Sakurai for putting in Robin who is an actual original character and complain about Lucina who is a worthless clone.
 
Last edited:

guedes the brawler

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
1,076
Location
Brazil. Sadly. Living here SUCKS!
NNID
Rafabrawl
Why does anyone actually think Sakurai would take a character who is apart of another's final smash and make him playable? We would have 3 versions of Marth on the roster! Besides, Sakurai already stated that he thinks Chrom has nothing unique about him. His opinion is what matters the most which means Chrom isn't ever going to be playable. Can people please stop being salty about him not being in? Thank Sakurai for putting in Robin who is an actual original character and complain about Lucina who is a worthless clone.
it's rather obvious from his comments that he didn't even give Chrom a chance.
 

Robertman2

IT'S HAPPENING!!!!
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
7,540
Location
Massachusetts
NNID
Robertman2
3DS FC
0259-1071-1157
Why does anyone actually think Sakurai would take a character who is apart of another's final smash and make him playable? We would have 3 versions of Marth on the roster! Besides, Sakurai already stated that he thinks Chrom has nothing unique about him. His opinion is what matters the most which means Chrom isn't ever going to be playable. Can people please stop being salty about him not being in? Thank Sakurai for putting in Robin who is an actual original character and complain about Lucina who is a worthless clone.
Worthless clone with a completely different playstyle? Yep. Sssssuuuuurrrrreee....
it's rather obvious from his comments that he didn't even give Chrom a chance.
He tried to include Chrom, but saw much more potential in Robin. Lucina was probably IS's doing.
 
Last edited:

Oblivion129

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
1,329
Location
Paraguay
NNID
Oblivion129
3DS FC
1821-9773-2413
I skipped over the analogy talk. What was that I don't even..
Chrom is interesting or uninteresting depending on your point of view. I personally like his personality. He's a good leader and in support convos you could see the human side of him and his innocence. He's not really like most past lords and I think people take his aesthetics too much into account.
Aesthetically it's easy to think he's just another Marth, but he honestly can be unique even if he only uses his sword. Just look at Mii Swordfighter for example.
But there's no real reason to add Chrom when Awakening is already represented. Only SMTxFE or a lot of fan demand can maybe convince Sakurai.
 

•Col•

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
2,450
it's rather obvious from his comments that he didn't even give Chrom a chance.
How could he given him any more of a chance?

Sakurai said:
Naturally, I considered adding Chrom to the roster, but the decision wasn't easy by any means.
He obviously had struggled at least a bit while choosing between Chrom and Robin. What do you want from him? To fully develop both characters, program them into the game, then after running running some trials with focus groups and getting input from others, choose to keep just one of the two characters in the game? Like, really now. C'mon.

We're way past the point of denial, here. You're merely choosing to act ignorant because you didn't get your way and the character you wanted didn't get into the game.

You can try to gather support from people for Chrom DLC and whatever, but stop acting as if Sakurai made the worst mistake of his life for choosing to add Robin over Chrom.
 
Last edited:

NATGamer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Messages
258
Location
New York
NNID
NATGamer
3DS FC
3737-9639-8538
Worthless clone with a completely different playstyle? Yep. Sssssuuuuurrrrreee....
Lucina's moveset is identical to Marth's. Who cares if she plays very slightly different than Marth? She still has no originality that Smash needed. She was added only because she is female and she was popular. Lucina doesn't deserve the spot she got and was VERY lucky that she did.
 
Last edited:

Robertman2

IT'S HAPPENING!!!!
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
7,540
Location
Massachusetts
NNID
Robertman2
3DS FC
0259-1071-1157
Lucina's moveset is identical to Marth's. Who cares if she plays very slightly different than Marth? She still has no originality that Smash needed. She was added only because she is female and she was popular. Lucina doesn't deserve the spot she got and was VERY lucky that she did.
I mained :4marth: in Melee, Brawl and Project M, and I safely can say that removing :4marth:'s tipper makes a MASSIVE difference in playstyles.
 

guedes the brawler

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
1,076
Location
Brazil. Sadly. Living here SUCKS!
NNID
Rafabrawl
How could he given him any more of a chance?



He obviously had struggled at least a bit while choosing between Chrom and Robin. What do you want from him? To fully develop both characters, program them into the game, then after running running some trials with focus groups and getting input from others, choose to keep just one of the two characters in the game? Like, really now. C'mon.

We're way past the point of denial, here. You're merely choosing to act ignorant because you didn't get your way and the character you wanted didn't get into the game.

You can try to gather support from people for Chrom DLC and whatever, but stop acting as if Sakurai made the worst mistake of his life for choosing to add Robin over Chrom.
“At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics.
Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place. " - Sakurai

This bit here is more than enough for me to conclude (sure, i could be wrong, i admit it) that Sakurai got the idea for Robin and didn't truly bother thinking something for Chrom when he already had the moveset for Robin fully thought out. Chrom has much more potential than Marth and Ike did, and i'd go as far to say he'd be in equal grounds with the Robin we were given by Sakurai himself,if not more unique depending on his attributes and playstyle.

it's not like Sakurai could straight up say "nah, i didn't even bother LMAO" or something like that. which is why he said "it wasn't an easy decision". If He thought Chrom would offer nothing, how hard could this decision be? If he really had a hard time with the decision even with a bland moveset in mind for Chrom, i applaud him for the motivation to keep considering Chrom; even if he couldn't realize his potential.

If i am to trust Sakurai, this is why i think Chrom has a shot at DLC. He considered Chrom, he knows he deserve to be in thanks to his importance and that he is also popular; but Sakurai couldn't see the moveset for Chrom; if we were to give him that, i still see a chance. I am not hopeful by any means, but i still see a cause worth fighting for.

Sakurai probably doesn't care much about franchise Roster spots in the end (like when Zelda had 5 reps in Melee (3 intended) over the more important DK series with a single rep?), and possibly doesn't acknowledge clones in that equation if he does care.

and no, Sakurai has done worse. I did not want to get back to this, but Rosalina over Toad or
even Bowser Jr is stupid. Not as stupid as completely taking out the aspects competitive Melee players liked instead of trying to find a middle ground in brawl (i do realize plenty of the stuff is broken, but it could've been fixed, re-implemented.); but the worst mistake of his life? Probably not quitting his job (guy is probably rich) before his hand problem got too serious. As far as we know of his life, of course.
 
Last edited:

Deviddo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
247
For the record:
*I think Robin was a smart choice over Chrom
*I can't say that Chrom was or wasn't truly considered because I don't know what goes on in Sakurai's head

*I will not, however, think that Lucina deserved her own character slot, if all they changed was the tipper.
*I'd like her a lot more if she had a new, or semi-clone moveset.

*Regardless, I'd still prefer Chrom over Lucina.
 

Deviddo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
247
We have another ask. Let's please try to be civil with our discussions this time around.

Chrom is definitely more well-know for being a swordsman, and not any swordsman... but one that makes use of a single, particular blade: the Falchion. With tht in mind, how viable are other weapons from Chrom? From other swords (they are quite varied in design), Lances, Axes, Bows... even more of a stretch but still canon, we also have magic and the Shield of Seals that could be used for him... or maybe not? Of course, they should never overshadow the Falchion if implemented but...

Also, do you think Chrom could use Skills? As seen by the Zelda, as well as the Mother and Pokemon reps, Sakurai can get quite creative at times... could chrom end up using, like Ness and Lucas, Skills that he couldn't learn by himself (such as Vantage, Vengeance, Rally Speed...) or should he be limited to the 16 Skills normally available to him (many of which completely unviable, such as Skill +2 or outdoor Fighter)?
 
Last edited:

Narwalgod

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Messages
404
Location
Quebec, The land no one ever speaks about.
We have another ask. Let's please try to be civil with our discussions this time around.
In regards to the Ness and lucas part, Ness got ceveral skills he could not use, not because he needed them to be unique, but because Ness was the series mascot and lucas was a clone of ness. Chrom is not popular enough to be awakening's or Fire emblem's mascot. Therefor cannot be given that perticular excuse. Regarding the rest, i think i made my thoughts on the matter perfectly clear.
 

Deviddo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
247
Oh for goodness sakes.
You know what.

If that's what you believe (that he can't be a mascot due to how you perceive the polls), go right ahead, I'm not even going to argue this.
 

Sonicdude234

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
8
3DS FC
0576-5109-7228
Reguardless, Chrom is the lord. She is critical for the story and is important. Story wise. No doubt. But still, I wouldn't say she is the mascot.
 

Oblivion129

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
1,329
Location
Paraguay
NNID
Oblivion129
3DS FC
1821-9773-2413
We have another ask. Let's please try to be civil with our discussions this time around.
I think Chrom has enough stuff to work with without getting into skills he can't use, but it won't hurt to give him something like vantage or astra. Robin has Nosferatu without actually needing it. We know Robin had a lot of potential for moveset and didn't need Nosferatu but it fit in well into his moveset so Sakurai did it.
Vantage could be a mix of Ike's quick-draw with Fox's Illusion, while Astra could be something like Dancing Blade.
 

Skyblade12

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
3,871
3DS FC
1547-6378-0895
Vantage could be a mix of Ike's quick-draw with Fox's Illusion, while Astra could be something like Dancing Blade.
Astra I can kind of see (though Chrom can't learn Astra, it's a Swordmaster skill).

Vantage (which he also can't get, as Chrom can't become a Myrmidon) is just wrong. There is no way to make Vantage viable in Smash, you're basically giving an entirely different ability the name Vantage.

The closest thing you could do to make a viable Vantage would be to have Chrom's move priority increase the higher damage he reaches. Which is an absolute nightmare for balance and implementation.

This is the problem. All of the "skills" are just modifiers to the standard attack system. 90% of them don't even make any sense in Smash. Reduce enemy Defense when attacking? Increase Skill by 2? Gain a free Small Gold when you slay an enemy? They just really don't work.

The most viable skills are ones like Astra (which could play out as a Dancing Blade clone, you're right), or something like Vengeance, which could be a unique attack that increases power the higher Chrom's damage is.

But none of them translate directly, and changing them too much just loses the entire point.
 

Oblivion129

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
1,329
Location
Paraguay
NNID
Oblivion129
3DS FC
1821-9773-2413
Astra I can kind of see (though Chrom can't learn Astra, it's a Swordmaster skill).

Vantage (which he also can't get, as Chrom can't become a Myrmidon) is just wrong. There is no way to make Vantage viable in Smash, you're basically giving an entirely different ability the name Vantage.

The closest thing you could do to make a viable Vantage would be to have Chrom's move priority increase the higher damage he reaches. Which is an absolute nightmare for balance and implementation.

This is the problem. All of the "skills" are just modifiers to the standard attack system. 90% of them don't even make any sense in Smash. Reduce enemy Defense when attacking? Increase Skill by 2? Gain a free Small Gold when you slay an enemy? They just really don't work.

The most viable skills are ones like Astra (which could play out as a Dancing Blade clone, you're right), or something like Vengeance, which could be a unique attack that increases power the higher Chrom's damage is.

But none of them translate directly, and changing them too much just loses the entire point.
You have a point. When I thought of Vantage I thought of "striking first", translating to "being faster", but your "increasing priority" makes a lot more sense and is actually a pretty cool mechanic.
It might not actually be out of the question, if you look at Lucario's Aura mechanic, although it will definitely be a lot more work to balance.
 

Skyblade12

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
3,871
3DS FC
1547-6378-0895
You have a point. When I thought of Vantage I thought of "striking first", translating to "being faster", but your "increasing priority" makes a lot more sense and is actually a pretty cool mechanic.
It might not actually be out of the question, if you look at Lucario's Aura mechanic, although it will definitely be a lot more work to balance.
It would be an awesome mechanic, admittedly. Balancing nightmare, but that's on Sakurai and the balance guys, we can hope for it all the same.

The main problem with it, however, is that it doesn't actually change the play style. None of the skills do. This is the problem with them. You can add all sorts of really awesome mechanics and effects like this with skills, but none of them change the fact that Chrom's a fairly generic swordfighter when it comes to moves.

Plus, he can't get most of the better skills to implement this way. The best ones to give him would be the ones he is guaranteed to get. Unfortunately, Charm is unviable in Smash, as is Dual Strike+ and Righteous King. And Aether has been done already.

If he had picked up Vantage as his first skill and used it through most of the game, it would make sense to make that a core mechanic of him in Smash. As something used by an optional class for him, it doesn't really work. As something used by a class he can't become, it doesn't work at all (though it would be awesome for Lyn or Lon'qu).

None of the skills he can learn really lend themselves to a core mechanic, unfortunately. Skill +2? Useless. Prescience? Hit Rate +20? Nope. Bowfaire? Ha, no. Bowbreaker? Nope. Rally Skill? No. Discipline? Useless. Defender? Useless. Outdoor Fighter? Almost all maps are outdoors, and would ruin balance. Aegis? Possible, but utterly ruins balance by overpowering him against certain match ups. Luna? No way to implement. Dual Guard+? Completely negate some percent of attacks? Massively OP.

That's the thing, the skills just don't translate well. If he had one of the half dozen that actually work, I'd give it to him in a heartbeat. But he doesn't.
 

True Blue Warrior

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
9,727
Location
United Kingdom
NNID
TrueBlueSM
3DS FC
2036-7619-4276
I don't think he should use any weapon other than the Fachion and (for a few moves) Lances. Giving him weapons other than them seems like a really pointless stretch and whilst non-canon moves aren't necessarily bad, stuff that doesn't feel natural to Chrom would be. I feel similarly about Skills. Anything outside of his core classes would feel forced.
 

guedes the brawler

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
1,076
Location
Brazil. Sadly. Living here SUCKS!
NNID
Rafabrawl
For skills, i think it depends

i mean, let's say that Chrom gets for his default moves... i dunno, Luna, Aegis, and adaptations of Aggressor and Charm. All skills he can get.

but as CUSTOM MOVES, it wouldn't be that weird to see Chrom with, respectively, Astra, Pavise, and adapted Vantage and Anathema.

The only skill i can see Chrom getting for his default moveset that he doesn't have is Pavise (because Aegis is anti-projectile and they might wish for anti-melee) or a Rally skill (because Chrom only has the super useless Rally Skill, and the Strength/Speed/Defense versions could work better for moves)


As for weapons, think that under the weapon switching mechanic i suggested, Swords, possibly a single Axe, would be alright (note: Rapier and Silver Sword, which are canon weapons for Chrom, are what his defaults would be. the rest would be custom moves).

If not, the only sword that has any business being in Chrom's moveset besides the Falchion, is the Rapier. 3 normals would be enough, i think.

for Lances, i think throwing lances are the only truly viable thing for Chrom; and this would also open room for a throwing Axe (and if they are feeling funny they could even let his use the Ragnel...). Bows could be used in the same vein, but i don't think Chrom should have so many projectiles, so it's either Lances or Bows; and we have Bows already. 3, in fact (okay, 5 with Shielda's FS)

They could make Chrom's bow more unique by making it stronger, able to be aimed in the same vein as the metal blade, and working like Pk Fire/Needle in midair.... all in exchange for a limited amount of uses.

As for your "playstyle" comment, few specials ever significantly impact a character's playstyle besides recovery moves since they are intricately linked with that.... I mean, we have the good projectiles that set things in stone with camping/Approach, Rest and...?


... before the greninja direct, i was hoping for that pair-up between Chrom and Robin, and when you played as Robin, Chrom would stand back and use his bow from the background. Would be a nice reference to postgame Chrom... and it would fit Robin's playstyle better than an awkward Jaelin/Hand Axe from the background.

Astra I can kind of see (though Chrom can't learn Astra, it's a Swordmaster skill).

Vantage (which he also can't get, as Chrom can't become a Myrmidon) is just wrong. There is no way to make Vantage viable in Smash, you're basically giving an entirely different ability the name Vantage.

The closest thing you could do to make a viable Vantage would be to have Chrom's move priority increase the higher damage he reaches. Which is an absolute nightmare for balance and implementation.

This is the problem. All of the "skills" are just modifiers to the standard attack system. 90% of them don't even make any sense in Smash. Reduce enemy Defense when attacking? Increase Skill by 2? Gain a free Small Gold when you slay an enemy? They just really don't work.

The most viable skills are ones like Astra (which could play out as a Dancing Blade clone, you're right), or something like Vengeance, which could be a unique attack that increases power the higher Chrom's damage is.

But none of them translate directly, and changing them too much just loses the entire point.
wasn't that done with multiple Pokemon as well as the mother boys before? I definitely don't remember Pk thunder involving hitting yourself for an human missile attack that move is particularly egregious because actually controlling Pk thunder is against all that it was before, iirc.

As for Vantage, your idea is nice but, would it be broken if it worked like WFT's Deep Breath? a temporary buff move that requires some setup? I don't think it would be that broken then, especially since Smash's focus is FFA 4 Players items on, which is a hard envrioment for these kind of moves (as my casual experience with PM"Lucas and his Offense Up move tells me...). Of course, in 1vs1 serious business you'd only have time for that once your opponent dies; but considering the enemy starts invincible...

Of course, that's assuming your idea would be the one chosen. Maybe it would be simpler than that, as a more flashy Counter move? Sakurai talks so much about uniqueness, but he ain't afraid of shoving a counter on 4 of his newcomer (Ok, Lucina is a clone, and Greninja is aesthetically different enough... but Palutena had no business with Counter being the default move, seriously...). Sure, with this same example you could mess with the counter a bit to turn it into something a little more unique (like Peach's), but i dunno.

I think Vengeance would be better fit with my "weapon switch" idea, as a custom move (the Vengeance axe). maybe as a custom move of Luna or another buff custom over charm or a rally skill.



... Armsthrift could surprisingly work well with my idea of Weapon Switching, especially if chrom also has 1-2 ranged weapons with durability issues.

It would be an awesome mechanic, admittedly. Balancing nightmare, but that's on Sakurai and the balance guys, we can hope for it all the same.

The main problem with it, however, is that it doesn't actually change the play style. None of the skills do. This is the problem with them. You can add all sorts of really awesome mechanics and effects like this with skills, but none of them change the fact that Chrom's a fairly generic swordfighter when it comes to moves.

Plus, he can't get most of the better skills to implement this way. The best ones to give him would be the ones he is guaranteed to get. Unfortunately, Charm is unviable in Smash, as is Dual Strike+ and Righteous King. And Aether has been done already.

If he had picked up Vantage as his first skill and used it through most of the game, it would make sense to make that a core mechanic of him in Smash. As something used by an optional class for him, it doesn't really work. As something used by a class he can't become, it doesn't work at all (though it would be awesome for Lyn or Lon'qu).

None of the skills he can learn really lend themselves to a core mechanic, unfortunately. Skill +2? Useless. Prescience? Hit Rate +20? Nope. Bowfaire? Ha, no. Bowbreaker? Nope. Rally Skill? No. Discipline? Useless. Defender? Useless. Outdoor Fighter? Almost all maps are outdoors, and would ruin balance. Aegis? Possible, but utterly ruins balance by overpowering him against certain match ups. Luna? No way to implement. Dual Guard+? Completely negate some percent of attacks? Massively OP.

That's the thing, the skills just don't translate well. If he had one of the half dozen that actually work, I'd give it to him in a heartbeat. But he doesn't.
none of the skills would work with a 100% canon transference, the same applies to most stuff seen with every character in smash besides Megaman; and even him got some adaptations for his smash attacks. As long as they don't completely **** on what the moves stood for (PK Thunder, Rest, Confusion, Double Team, Din's Fire, Egg Toss, and in a roundabout way, Paralyzer) Luna could work as a charge attack which could be cancelled into a damage (and shield damage) buff. Charm would have to be a speed buff move to reflect Hit/Ddg bonuses, as would Rally skill and Prescience. That's just one idea: Marth's Shield Breaker was based on similar stuff and we even had two versions of that. it would be interesting to see Luna as a reworked Melee!Shield Breaker; especially if Chrom is more Slash-based than Swing-based, or something completely new

after seeing what was done with Rest, i don't doubt anything.

If Nayru's Love worked, i do not see the deal with Aegis. None of the reflectors are broken if used only as reflectors, i do not see why Aegis would be any different.
 
Last edited:

Oblivion129

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
1,329
Location
Paraguay
NNID
Oblivion129
3DS FC
1821-9773-2413
Sakurai could literally make Chrom a Captain Falcon clone. He'll take out his Falchion in one of his taunts :troll:
There's no need to limit our movesets when there aren't exactly any rules. Sure, some things fit in better than others, but no need to discard things. Chrom isn't even playable for us to discuss movesets so seriously.
We all like canon movesets but who knows...
 

Robertman2

IT'S HAPPENING!!!!
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
7,540
Location
Massachusetts
NNID
Robertman2
3DS FC
0259-1071-1157
Sakurai could literally make Chrom a Captain Falcon clone. He'll take out his Falchion in one of his taunts :troll:
There's no need to limit our movesets when there aren't exactly any rules. Sure, some things fit in better than others, but no need to discard things. Chrom isn't even playable for us to discuss movesets so seriously.
We all like canon movesets but who knows...
Due to the madness of his best friend/son-in-law and daughter making it into Smash over him, Chrom descended into madness and copied the moves of the man who defeated him in combat. :troll:
 

guedes the brawler

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
1,076
Location
Brazil. Sadly. Living here SUCKS!
NNID
Rafabrawl
Due to the madness of his best friend/son-in-law and daughter making it into Smash over him, Chrom descended into madness and copied the moves of the man who defeated him in combat. :troll:
Falchion Punch, anyone?

you know, what if for a normal or two Chrom used punches or kicks? it's nothing special, but i do think it's fitting for someone of his personality.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom