Anything Can Change! Chrom for SSB4 - Closing Remarks, and an Invitation

[Deviddo]

Couldn't any Fire Emblem character theoretically use the 3 vulnerary taunt idea?

Of course, but it hasn't been done yet, why not start with Chrom?

 

[guedes the brawler]

Different swords or weapons used in Special moves are fine, but switchable swords that affect all of his standard moves should be limited. They'll have to program and test each one, so 3 would probably be the maximum amount. I'm only betting on one extra sword, though.

as i said, it could affect only a limited amount of moves.

or maybe they could work as items, allowing you to even throw them away. Possibly, like how Snake's grenades had special throwing options, chrom could get extra attacks when carrying a sword.

But you must rmemeber that i suggested that the swords take up custom move slots. i'm sure they aren't testing too much when it comes to them, outside of palu and the miis (i mean, look at how clearly broken that Fast Fireball wa sin the direct)

Actually, when I think about it, it's kinda odd that only NOW is a character (Robin) representing the limited use weapons that FE is known for. If Chrom IS in as DLC, that would be brilliant, if he was another character to show that limitation of the FE series, I especially like the 3 use vulnerary taunt.

Marth's non counter specials have shades of Killing Edge, Brave sword/Astra and Rapier into them. One might say Luna, isntead, was the inspirationg for Melee's Shield Breaker, but Brawl's is clearly about Rapier

Of course, but it hasn't been done yet, why not start with Chrom?

...because Chrom can use the falchion for that, can't he?

 

[Deviddo]

Right.
Right right, oh gosh how did I even forget that?!

Well. I mean. If it was the item instead of the Falchion, it would have a limited use, so, better balancing?

 

[Oblivion129]

as i said, it could affect only a limited amount of moves.

or maybe they could work as items, allowing you to even throw them away. Possibly, like how Snake's grenades had special throwing options, chrom could get extra attacks when carrying a sword.

But you must rmemeber that i suggested that the swords take up custom move slots. i'm sure they aren't testing too much when it comes to them, outside of palu and the miis (i mean, look at how clearly broken that Fast Fireball wa sin the direct)



Marth's non counter specials have shades of Killing Edge, Brave sword/Astra and Rapier into them. One might say Luna, isntead, was the inspirationg for Melee's Shield Breaker, but Brawl's is clearly about Rapier


...because Chrom can use the falchion for that, can't he?

Working as an item would be really cool for a javelin or lance, since you can use it with your standard attacks as well as throwing them. Throwing a sword would be weird, though, unless they program it so you can't. Still, I really like the idea, I just question how much swords they'd be willing to put in his moveset.
Having Sol as a healing sword as a custom moveset probably won't be out of the question since you're right about the balancing of custom moves.

 

[guedes the brawler]

Working as an item would be really cool for a javelin or lance, since you can use it with your standard attacks as well as throwing them. Throwing a sword would be weird, though, unless they program it so you can't. Still, I really like the idea, I just question how much swords they'd be willing to put in his moveset.
Having Sol as a healing sword as a custom moveset probably won't be out of the question since you're right about the balancing of custom moves.

uh, you can throw a beam sword, can't you? but as i said, they could make it an itme but modify a bit what you can do with it, jus tlike with snake's grenades

 

[Oblivion129]

uh, you can throw a beam sword, can't you? but as i said, they could make it an itme but modify a bit what you can do with it, jus tlike with snake's grenades

Of course, but Chrom isn't known for being a sword thrower lol. But it can definitely work and make him a lot more different in gameplay than the rest.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Soooooooooo, how's the movement going?

 

[guedes the brawler]

Of course, but Chrom isn't known for being a sword thrower lol. But it can definitely work and make him a lot more different in gameplay than the rest.

eh. i knew ness as swell healer and buffer. i knew Ganon as a spellcaster.

 

[Deviddo]

Soooooooooo, how's the movement going?

A little slow currently, to be honest.

 

[guedes the brawler]

Another thing Chrom could use is the Fire Emblem itself

both as a shield, and as the magic of the gemstones.

 

[Opossum]

There's some new information regarding the movement that I will disclose this weekend when things are less hectic in my life.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

There's some new information regarding the movement that I will disclose this weekend when things are less hectic in my life.

Fair enough since James and I are thinking about doing a similar movement for a certain someone since many people are a little too impatient.

 

[Oblivion129]

eh. i knew ness as swell healer and buffer. i knew Ganon as a spellcaster.

True. At this point anything goes. I'll be fine with Chrom no matter what moveset, though. You should probably add your ideas to the support page: http://chromforsmashbros.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/in-response-to-what-would-chrom-do-in-smash-bros/

 

[guedes the brawler]

I like those sword ideas. He should only have Falchion plus one more, and the second should have around 10 uses before breaking per stock.

going back to this, wouldnt 10 uses be a little to low? i think the number of uses should be around 15 for most weapons. some of those that i listed as "more fragile" could definitely go with 10 uses.

On a free for all setting you wouldn't be able to use the swords effectively with so little uses, methinks

 

[Oblivion129]

going back to this, wouldnt 10 uses be a little to low? i think the number of uses should be around 15 for most weapons. some of those that i listed as "more fragile" could definitely go with 10 uses.

On a free for all setting you wouldn't be able to use the swords effectively with so little uses, methinks

Well since a normal attack takes like 10% and a strong smash attack is about 20%, you'll be dealing 100%-200% on one opponent. Plus, the sword gets restored when you lose a stock or maybe after a time limit, so dealing 100% with one sword I think is enough, otherwise you'll never use the Falchion lol.
But it depends on the sword, I guess a really strong one could have 5 uses per stock, but one with the strength of the beam sword could have 10-15 uses. I think the idea should be to choose which sword to use depending on the situation rather than the whole match.

 

[guedes the brawler]

but that's assuming you hit all your hits, no? hitting shields and counters and smash balls and containers...(or if we really want to be cannon, missing your attacks).

This would balance it out fo 1vs1, but we'd need something to make up for the number of uses. The swords are generally complementary "side grades" to the falchion...

 

[Oblivion129]

I think it would count as each time the sword hits something, be it the opponent, a shield, an item or a projectile.
I've checked footage from the E3 demo and in a free for all you rarely see someone attack more than 10 times per stock. I think 5 hits per sword is actually enough after seeing some matches.

You can count how many times Ken's Marth hits with his sword per stock.

 

[guedes the brawler]

i'm still not sure, but i guess that could be fine.

i mean, the plan was 2 extra swords, so...

by the wya, i postes that, as well as my ideas for Luna, Aegis and Aether, as requested

 

[TheLightningGamer]

Whoever started this movement is awesome, and I'd like to thank them (who was it?). You have my full support, I have an old moveset for Chrom I'll put on here, once I find it.

 

[SS-bros14]

Um, sorry guys but I don't think Chrom will come this smash.
I want Chrom as much as the next person, but he's already confirmed as a FS. He can't even be DLC.

 

[Deviddo]

The glorious thing about DLC is it's post-game content. It wouldn't be too difficult for Chrom to be replaced with someone else in Robin's FS, or even just ignore it all together. It IS DLC, it doesn't necessarily need to worry about "Smash canon".

 

[TheLightningGamer]

The glorious thing about DLC is it's post-game content. It wouldn't be too difficult for Chrom to be replaced with someone else in Robin's FS, or even just ignore it all together. It IS DLC, it doesn't necessarily need to worry about "Smash canon".

And Robin's Final Smash doesn't focus around Chrom, it just has him as well, from what we know that is.

 

[Morbi]

And Robin's Final Smash doesn't focus around Chrom, it just has him as well, from what we know that is.

I would assert that it focuses on Chrom if the trailer is anything to go by.

 

[guedes the brawler]

assuming my idea of 2 swords + falchion for a special move would be in Chrom's moveset, and one of his other specials cannot be customized in order to allow for more sword options, here is what i have for the 6 packs available to Chrom:

Default Pack: Silver Sword and Rapier

These are the safest sidegrades to the falchion, and are the 2 non-falchion wepaons Chrom starts with (he has a silver sword on the dream where you go vs Validar). Rapier is more for pressure, while the Silver Sword is there to help Chrom finish people off.


Fast and Furious pack: Killing Edge and Brave Blade

Both swords have fast start-up, but between the fragility of the Brave Blade and the great lag after attacks with the Killing edge, this is a pack meant for Experts of Chrombat. Effective use of these would allow for quick combos and quick finishers, but if you are careless...


Bulldozer pack: Armorslayer and Superior Edge

These are, unlike the above pack, mostly meant for mid-high level of play and lower. With the good power on the Armorslayer, and the Superior priority on the Edge, Chrom would be able to play a "good' offensive game, barrelling through his opponents with strong blows. All in all, these too can be useful for landing that killing blow the Falchion can't, especially the Superior Edge.


Glass Cannon pack: Glass Sword and Twing ( Newcomer! + Speed, - significantly lower knockback and damage, - fragile)

The Twig's use would be similar to how one uses the Fan item: fast but low on damage, and can be easily spammed... in compensation, we have the powerful glass Sword (which seems to be forged since it's more powerful than the silver sword), to deal those finish blows. It's similar to the FaF pack above, but the weapons are more effective for their individual roles in this pack, albeit with much less synergy between them (as you can't turn combos into kill blows as easily)


Legendary Regalia pack: Sol and Ragnel (Newcomer! - Speed, + Reach, + significant increase in power, - fragile)

The Ragnel is more of a buffed Armorslayer, trading extra power for durability and the lack of bonus shield damage (which makes shielding more viable to punish Chrom... which can be troublesome for the fragile Ragnel), and the dangerous playstyle this brings is offset a bit by Sol, who can bring back damage dealt as recovered health.. hough this sword is just as fragile as the Ragnel

Ranged References pack: roy's blade and Levin's sword

Roy's balde is all about getting very close and personal, while the Levin sword that Chrom uses, is about making sure people are hit by the electrical sparks on the tip: unlike Robin, Chrom's magic is much weaker, and he prefers to focus it on the tip of the blade instead of bringing the thunder to the whole edge. they don't have much synergy between each, but they give you an edge at various ranges.


...and this is it! i wish i could draw to get support images.

maybe deviantart has some cool Chrom images we can edit (with the permission of the author) to include "Chrom 4 smash" captions or something

 

[Deviddo]

So we have another question!
(Albeit it's a bit of an unhappy question.)

"It's sure funny how Sakurai ignored Chrom due to him being a bland and boring swordsman (AKA sakurai is incapable of stop looking at robin for 2 seconds to think up a cool and unique moveset)... and was completely fine with the even blander and boring mii Swordsman; right?" - Anonymous

 

[Opossum]

While I will personally forever find the Mii Swordsman to be an abomination, I can't blame him for going for Robin. I just never thought he would go for Robin. Ideally, we'd have both. But alas, I don't think it's fair to blame Robin.

 

[Enloc]

Huh, you know, I paid 0 attention to the Miis because I could really care less about them, but that anon does have a good point. Not sure why we had to have three different variations on Miis when we could have had one kind of Mii and two other actual, meaningful characters. That really IS kind of disheartening...sure, we'll do a generic Mii swordsman, but we can't think of anything for Chrom!

Nicely done, team.

But yeah, I really can't blame Robin either. Nor can I get terribly upset, because I like Robin and will be playing him/her. Just coulda done without a whole trailer of Chrom lying in the dirt and Sakurai making us think for a second he might actually be playable. It put a damper on what was otherwise the single most hype-generating trailer for me, huge FE fan that I am.

 

[IronFish]

While I will personally forever find the Mii Swordsman to be an abomination, I can't blame him for going for Robin. I just never thought he would go for Robin. Ideally, we'd have both. But alas, I don't think it's fair to blame Robin.

if you look at everything it's was quite obvious that he would go with Robin, because Chrom fit pretty much none of "Sakurai's character inclusion criteria" where Robin fit every one of them, and on top of that the only thing Chrom had going for him was popularity, and we had already seen previously, that uniqueness beats popularity with characters like Rosalina, or Greninja.

 

[False Sense]

While I will personally forever find the Mii Swordsman to be an abomination, I can't blame him for going for Robin. I just never thought he would go for Robin. Ideally, we'd have both. But alas, I don't think it's fair to blame Robin.

Well, there weren't a whole lot of non-arbitrary reason for why he wouldn't go for Robin.

 

[Opossum]

if you look at everything it's was quite obvious that he would go with Robin, because Chrom fit pretty much none of "Sakurai's character inclusion criteria" where Robin fit every one of them, and on top of that the only thing Chrom had going for him was popularity, and we had already seen previously, that uniqueness beats popularity with characters like Rosalina, or Greninja.

Those criteria are entirely subjective. I think he fits them fine.

 

[Narwalgod]

So we have another question!
(Albeit it's a bit of an unhappy question.)

"It's sure funny how Sakurai ignored Chrom due to him being a bland and boring swordsman (AKA sakurai is incapable of stop looking at robin for 2 seconds to think up a cool and unique moveset)... and was completely fine with the even blander and boring mii Swordsman; right?" - Anonymous

I think most of you are ignoring the facr that most if not all movesets shouldbe based on should i make him this way and not can i make him this way.

 

[IronFish]

- The character's inclusion must make people want to buy the game.
Sure a lot of people expected Chrom, but not a lot of people wanted him, so most people wouldn't but the game JUST to see him
- The character must be unique
This one's a little too obvious, yes he could be unique gameplay wise, but now matter what you do he looks like a Marth Ike hybrid.
- The character must fit into the style of Super Smash Bros.
Yes he would fit just as well as any other character I'll give you that
- They must contribute to the game balance.
Again he looks like a Marth Ike hybrid, it would be like having Pikachu, Pichu, and Plusle & Minun be the only Pokemon reps.

 

[Morbi]

Well, there weren't a whole lot of non-arbitrary reason for why he wouldn't go for Robin.

It is humorous that no one said that prior to her reveal, either. Hehehe.

So we have another question!
(Albeit it's a bit of an unhappy question.)

"It's sure funny how Sakurai ignored Chrom due to him being a bland and boring swordsman (AKA sakurai is incapable of stop looking at robin for 2 seconds to think up a cool and unique moveset)... and was completely fine with the even blander and boring mii Swordsman; right?" - Anonymous

I would agree with this sentiment if we did not also get Mii Gunner and Mii Brawler. Honestly, they are three parts of a whole. Regardless, Sakurai's statement was completely and utterly fallacious, same as before when he denounced Villager.

 

[Narwalgod]

It is humorous that no one said that prior to her reveal, either. Hehehe.


I would agree with this sentiment if we did not also get Mii Gunner and Mii Brawler. Honestly, they are three parts of a whole. Regardless, Sakurai's statement was completely and utterly fallacious, same as before when he denounced Villager.

I count But teh gematsu leak! as an arbitrary reason.

 

[Opossum]

- The character's inclusion must make people want to buy the game.
Sure a lot of people expected Chrom, but not a lot of people wanted him, so most people wouldn't but the game JUST to see him
- The character must be unique
This one's a little too obvious, yes he could be unique gameplay wise, but now matter what you do he looks like a Marth Ike hybrid.
- The character must fit into the style of Super Smash Bros.
Yes he would fit just as well as any other character I'll give you that
- They must contribute to the game balance.
Again he looks like a Marth Ike hybrid, it would be like having Pikachu, Pichu, and Plusle & Minun be the only Pokemon reps.

Once again, completely subjective.

-The character must be unique.
Chrom can easily be unique gameplay-wise, and that's what really matters. Looking like a hybrid doesn't make him not-viable. It just made him stick out less than Robin. That doesn't undermine this, however.
-Character must fit in with the style. Of course he does.
-Must make people want to play the game. Sakurai notes Chrom's popularity in an article. Can you honestly tell me he's unpopular? He's slightly polarizing in some of the hardcore circles, but over all, yes, he is popular.
-Character must contribute to game balance. You got the meaning wrong. This just means that they shouldn't have a game-breaking mechanic, or need extraneous resources to implement to give them an unfair advantage.

Once again, entirely subjective.

 

[Deviddo]

if you look at everything it's was quite obvious that he would go with Robin, because Chrom fit pretty much none of "Sakurai's character inclusion criteria" where Robin fit every one of them, and on top of that the only thing Chrom had going for him was popularity, and we had already seen previously, that uniqueness beats popularity with characters like Rosalina, or Greninja.

Last I checked, regardless of whether characters were picked for this or not: Chrom is unpopular with most of the FE fanbase, at least in contrast to Robin and Lucina, Rosalina is ridiculously popular, and Greninja is the most popular of the 3 final evolutions of X and Y.

Of course, I'm not saying Chrom isn't popular, but compared to Lucina and Robin, the top 2 with the majority of the fanbase is pretty apparent.

 

[Morbi]

Once again, completely subjective.

-The character must be unique.
Chrom can easily be unique gameplay-wise, and that's what really matters. Looking like a hybrid doesn't make him not-viable. It just made him stick out less than Robin. That doesn't undermine this, however.
-Character must fit in with the style. Of course he does.
-Must make people want to play the game. Sakurai notes Chrom's popularity in an article. Can you honestly tell me he's unpopular? He's slightly polarizing in some of the hardcore circles, but over all, yes, he is popular.
-Character must contribute to game balance. You got the meaning wrong. This just means that they shouldn't have a game-breaking mechanic, or need extraneous resources to implement to give them an unfair advantage.

Once again, entirely subjective.

Once again, utterly subjective. Sorry, I had to state it once more!

I do; however, agree. The criteria is subjective, not only that, but the "character must be unique" is entirely determined by Sakurai in the first place. Therefore it is not necessarily a plausible means to measure whether or not they should be in the game.

Every Nintendo character known to man "fits in with the style" if Snake was included.

Again, the last notion is entirely determined by Sakurai himself.

I am not sure why people cite this as objective evidence.

 

[Opossum]

Once again, utterly subjective. Sorry, I had to state it once more!

I do; however, agree. The criteria is subjective, not only that, but the "character must be unique" is entirely determined by Sakurai in the first place. Therefore it is not necessarily a plausible means to measure whether or not they should be in the game.

Every Nintendo character known to man "fits in with the style" if Snake was included.

Again, the last notion is entirely determined by Sakurai himself.

I am not sure why people cite this as objective evidence.

That's my point, really. People shouldn't use "he obviously fails the four criteria" when it means different things to different people. The whole set of criteria is entirely subjective.

 

[False Sense]

Once again, completely subjective.

-The character must be unique.
Chrom can easily be unique gameplay-wise, and that's what really matters. Looking like a hybrid doesn't make him not-viable. It just made him stick out less than Robin. That doesn't undermine this, however.
-Character must fit in with the style. Of course he does.
-Must make people want to play the game. Sakurai notes Chrom's popularity in an article. Can you honestly tell me he's unpopular? He's slightly polarizing in some of the hardcore circles, but over all, yes, he is popular.
-Character must contribute to game balance. You got the meaning wrong. This just means that they shouldn't have a game-breaking mechanic, or need extraneous resources to implement to give them an unfair advantage.

Once again, entirely subjective.

I suppose the issue is that Robin also fits that criteria, and more. Robin is overtly more unique than Chrom, both in abilities and aesthetically, and that uniqueness could make people more interested in playing the game.

Going by that criteria alone, Robin is the superior choice, and it would seem that Sakurai agrees.

 

[Morbi]

I suppose the issue is that Robin also fits that criteria, and more. Robin is overtly more unique than Chrom, both in abilities and aesthetically, and that uniqueness could make people more interested in playing the game.

Going by that criteria alone, Robin is the superior choice, and it would seem that Sakurai agrees.

I suppose the issue is that every character has the capacity to fit that criteria thereby making it negligible that one character satisfies the elements better than another... because...

It is entirely subjective.