Anyone else really worried about the quality of this game?

[FinalStarmen]

Nah, man, what could possibly go wro...


Oh. Maybe just a tad worried, then.

Well... luck be to you, Ganondorf, and the rest of the low-tier characters.

 

[DonkaFjord]

Nah, man, what could possibly go wro...


Oh. Maybe just a tad worried, then.

But super fairness is boring. I am not talking about balanced, I am talking about fair. The only fair thing is for everyone to have the same moves/speed/damage/etc. That is the most "fair" and "balanced." Of course it is impossible to 100% make something balanced for every player and character. It is out of your hands, quit worrying about it.

 

[PadWarrior]

Smash has never been anything but a well-polished and highly enjoyable release. I have no worries.

This right here.

 

[Slugma128]

Here we go, the elite race of competetive people!

Their definitions of fun, gameplay and design are the only true ones! If the new Smash isn't made competetive, it'll fail because "people" will go back to Melee. ("People", as in the 5 % of all Smash buyers who plays it competevily.)

You know why I buy Smash? Because:

1) I think Peach's butt attacks are really sexy and I want to see them in HD.

2) I hope Zero Suit Samus is included, and that she's based on her Other M model - she's got junk in her trunk (a fat butt)

3) I think the default mechanics in Smash are fun, much more fun than in traditional fighting games.

I'll pay as much money for Smash as any one of the elite race, but my reasons for buying it will be looked down upon by the self-titled elites. Because certain reasons are "OK" and others are not. Who decides which ones? People from the elite race, of course.

If you buy a game for casual fun and sex appeal, you belong to the bottom of the barrel. The Smash scum. You enjoy Smash just as much as the elite race, but for other reasons. The wrong reasons, as defined by the elites. You shouldn't enjoy Peach's butt. That's just wrong, anyone in the elite knows that. You could enjoy the HD graphics, but with the risk of being called a graphics horse. What you REALLY should enjoy and being allowed to talk about - as defined by the elite race - is the gameplay and the mechanisms that'll play an important role in competetive play.

I own all Smash games, and I'll buy both versions of Smash 4. But I'll never fully be able to talk about the things I enjoy in Smash and have other people talk to me. I look forward to many funny Miiverse posts, though!

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I can make Mario, Sonic and Mega Man fight. That's worth more than all the competitive gameplay in the world

 

[BKupa666]

It is out of your hands, quit worrying about it.

 

[soviet prince]

what I am worried about is that we wont get much newcomers this time around

 

[Slugma128]

People seem to care more about stuffing the game with as many characters as possible instead of having characters who actually bring something more than astethics. Nothing wrong with that, but, I believe that Sakurai doesn't really care about the fans' outcry. He has proven that over and over again.

 

[majora_787]

People seem to care more about stuffing the game with as many characters as possible instead of having characters who actually bring something more than astethics. Nothing wrong with that, but, I believe that Sakurai doesn't really care about the fans' outcry. He has proven that over and over again.

Well, Sakurai has made statements on Smash 4 that his priorities on the roster are to have as many characters in as he can get, but also to have characters that actually add to the game. And Mega Man and Villager seem like good indications, at the very least.

 

[Renji64]

If people go back to Melee, that means they're stuck in the past...let's all face it, Brawl was NOT a better competitive game than Melee, but it was a MUCH BETTER game as a whole. It's just that these people can't seem to get their head out of their wavedashing as*es. People who are able to grasp new gameplay mechanics will just move on to SSBWiiU like they should, and people who can't accept that "Melee-competitive" is NOT a good reference point will just keep playing Fox and Marth on Final Destination with no items, sad for them.

Brawl was crap no-one wants to play a inferior game just because it is the newer release. It is so slow and boring to watch and defensive.

 

[Renji64]

Quailty wise the game should be fine gameplay wise who knows it is seems like it is just gonna be brawl 2.0. Sakurai doesn't care about competive players or people who liked melee's style of gameplay there will never be a universeral smash due to people like different things. it is so saddening that people actually like the non casual entry of smash and they get nothing.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

People seem to care more about stuffing the game with as many characters as possible instead of having characters who actually bring something more than astethics. Nothing wrong with that, but, I believe that Sakurai doesn't really care about the fans' outcry. He has proven that over and over again.

Sakurai adds some characters that aren't requested intentionally, like R.O.B, Snake, G&W, Ice Climbers, and recently Wii Fit Trainer. However, the majority of characters are still requested by fans from all over the world. Wario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Charizard (even including Squirtle and Ivysaur), Pit, not to mention Sonic. Those are just some of the Brawl characters, then there's of course Bowser, Peach, Mewtwo, Marth and Ganondorf for Melee. We also have Mega Man and Villager for Smash 4.

It's true that Sakurai makes some whacky inclusions time to time, but the majority of inclusions are still fan requests.

Quailty wise the game should be fine gameplay wise who knows it is seems like it is just gonna be brawl 2.0. Sakurai doesn't care about competive players or people who liked melee's style of gameplay there will never be a universeral smash due to people like different things. it is so saddening that people actually like the non casual entry of smash and they get nothing.

It's just impossible to please two polar opposites. I do think it's best to not just lean one way, like Melee leaned so heavily towards the competitive scene and Brawl leaned so heavily towards the casual scene. I really hope Sakurai can execute his little plan of hitting the in-between. The competitive scene will most likely never get another Melee, and this certainly isn't the game for that either, but that doesn't mean it's going to lack in quality, it just means that the smaller competitive fanbase will probably still stick to Melee/Project M.

 

[SmashChu]

What a terrible post. You would have a point if Brawl only changed a few things from Melee but from a gameplay perspective the two games are almost nothing alike. Brawl literally stripped Melee of everything that us Melee players thought was great and exciting about it.

And FYI not every person who prefers Melee > Brawl is expecting a "Melee 2.0" from Smash 4. Plenty of Melee players in my scene are going to give Smash 4 a chance even though they know it most likely won't be anything like Melee.

I don't think I missed anything at all. You only proved my point. Things change. Sometimes a little. Sometime a lot. Starcraft 2 is VASTLY different from Starcraft 1 but that didn't stop everyone from playing it. Not everything was going to be the same as Melee like SSB4 will not be the same as Brawl. Anyone thinking otherwise is is fooling themselves.

You don't care about the Super Smash Brothers series, You care only about Melee.

 

[Renji64]

Sakurai adds some characters that aren't requested intentionally, like R.O.B, Snake, G&W, Ice Climbers, and recently Wii Fit Trainer. However, the majority of characters are still requested by fans from all over the world. Wario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Charizard (even including Squirtle and Ivysaur), Pit, not to mention Sonic. Those are just some of the Brawl characters, then there's of course Bowser, Peach, Mewtwo, Marth and Ganondorf for Melee. We also have Mega Man and Villager for Smash 4.

It's true that Sakurai makes some whacky inclusions time to time, but the majority of inclusions are still fan requests.



It's just impossible to please two polar opposites. I do think it's best to not just lean one way, like Melee leaned so heavily towards the competitive scene and Brawl leaned so heavily towards the casual scene. I really hope Sakurai can execute his little plan of hitting the in-between. The competitive scene will most likely never get another Melee, and this certainly isn't the game for that either, but that doesn't mean it's going to lack in quality, it just means that the smaller competitive fanbase will probably still stick to Melee/Project M.

so it means they souldn't purchase it? Since sakurai only cares about casual consumers.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I don't think I missed anything at all. You only proved my point. Things change. Sometimes a little. Sometime a lot. Starcraft 2 is VASTLY different from Starcraft 1 but that didn't stop everyone from playing it. Not everything was going to be the same as Melee like SSB4 will not be the same as Brawl. Anyone thinking otherwise is is fooling themselves.

You don't care about the Super Smash Brothers series, You care only about Melee.

2 terrible accusations in a row... You're on a roll buddy. Just because a game has the name "Smash Bros" in the title it doesn't immediately mean I'm supposed to blindly fawn over the game despite the fact that I find the gameplay much less enjoyable than Melee overall. Why should I be forced to play a game that I find less enjoyable? Because everyone else is? Because I'm somehow not supporting the smash series as a whole if I don't want to play Brawl? Terrible logic.

And once again I'm going to have to repeat myself but I'll put the words in nice big letters this time so you can actually digest what I'm saying... PLENTY OF MELLE PLAYERS IN MY SCENE ARE GOING TO GIVE SMASH 4 A CHANCE DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY KNOW IT WILL MOST LIKELY BE NOTHING LIKE MELEE. Why? Because *gasp* we actually DO love the Smash Bros series! What a revelation!

 

[SmashChu]

2 terrible accusations in a row... You're on a roll buddy. Just because a game has the name "Smash Bros" in the title it doesn't immediately mean I'm supposed to blindly fawn over the game despite the fact that I find the gameplay much less enjoyable than Melee overall. Why should I be forced to play a game that I find less enjoyable? Because everyone else is? Because I'm somehow not supporting the smash series as a whole if I don't want to play Brawl? Terrible logic.

And once again I'm going to have to repeat myself but I'll put the words in nice big letters this time so you can actually digest what I'm saying... PLENTY OF MELLE PLAYERS IN MY SCENE ARE GOING TO GIVE SMASH 4 A CHANCE DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY KNOW IT WILL MOST LIKELY BE NOTHING LIKE MELEE. Why? Because *gasp* we actually do love the Smash Bros series!

I'm not saying you should do anything. I'm saying what you actually believe. So who is making the terrible accusations (Hint: it's you).

You don't like the series. You like Melee. Which is what I've gather from the last few post you've made. You won't like the new game because it's not Melee. You wont like any of the Smash Brothers games if they aren't Melee. So you aren't a fan of the series. To make clear what I was saying (because you misunderstood me, not the other way around), people enjoy the series even if they change. Even if they try to appeal to more people. SF4 is far simpler than SF3. Capcom has been making the inputs easier for years. But that hasn't stopped SF fans from playing the games because they are actually Street Fighter fans. You, and many others, are not fans of Super Smash Brothers but of Melee. The assumption you and others take is that Brawl is vastly inferior yet people are playing it in tournaments and it even has bigger turns outs at some larger events (Apex 2013 being one). So Brawl's "less enjoyable" gameplay has not stopped a lot of people from playing it. So, again, may claim stands: You are a Melee fan but not a Super Smash Brothers fan. You like the series as long as it's Melee.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I'm not saying you should do anything. I'm saying what you actually believe. So who is making the terrible accusations (Hint: it's you).

Because I CLEARLY hate anything that isn't Melee just because I dislike Brawl. Because you CLEARLY know how I feel about the Smash series better than I actually do. Because I CLEARLY hate anything new about the Smash series despite the literal pages and pages of posts I've contributed to the Smash 4 section because of how much I'm eagerly anticipating this game.

I'm done with this troll. People like you are why the Melee and Brawl communities will never get along.

 

[NintendoKnight]

I'm done with this troll. People like you are why the Melee and Brawl communities will never get along.

They will never get along as long as each community claims their own respective game is better than the other.

There are Melee elitists that exist. They make a point to say that Brawl is inferior, which ruffles feathers. (Including mine, I prefer Brawl)

That, however, has not stopped me from trying out Project M. I know that I dislike Melee's mechanics as opposed to Brawl's. But I'm still trying to enjoy it.

I'm trying to broaden my horizons. "Why do people like this more than Brawl?" Is what I asked myself, and sought out to find the answer.

Now I understand why people like Melee, and why people like Brawl.

Maybe, just maybe, Sm4sh will allow us to meet in the middle.

We can set aside our stupid "SSBM Vs SSBB" arguments and agree that Smash 4 is a great compromise. Both can play and enjoy equally, without the need for comparison to a previous game.

But that's just my hopes for this series.

 

[majora_787]

They will never get along as long as each community claims their own respective game is better than the other.

There are Melee elitists that exist. They make a point to say that Brawl is inferior, which ruffles feathers. (Including mine, I prefer Brawl)

That, however, has not stopped me from trying out Project M. I know that I dislike Melee's mechanics as opposed to Brawl's. But I'm still trying to enjoy it.

I'm trying to broaden my horizons. "Why do people like this more than Brawl?" Is what I asked myself, and sought out to find the answer.

Now I understand why people like Melee, and why people like Brawl.

Maybe, just maybe, Sm4sh will allow us to meet in the middle.

We can set aside our stupid "SSBM Vs SSBB" arguments and agree that Smash 4 is a great compromise. Both can play and enjoy equally, without the need for comparison to a previous game.

But that's just my hopes for this series.

In all seriousness, as much as I'd love to be proven wrong, I think Project M is going to hinder any "meeting in the middle". It is essentially another way for people to stop playing melee only to keep playing melee, and more than a few people have decided that Project M is a far better game than Smash 4 far in advance and won't even give Smash 4 a look until there is a Project M for the Wii U or 3DS.

I'm mostly just hoping that the undesirable aggressive and nasty groups will actually leave Smash 4 alone while all of the sane people move in to try it out, but I kind of doubt that possibility too. Maybe I'm just a major pessimist though.

 

[NintendoKnight]

In all seriousness, as much as I'd love to be proven wrong, I think Project M is going to hinder any "meeting in the middle". It is essentially another way for people to stop playing melee only to keep playing melee, and more than a few people have decided that Project M is a far better game than Smash 4 far in advance and won't even give Smash 4 a look until there is a Project M for the Wii U or 3DS.

I'm mostly just hoping that the undesirable aggressive and nasty groups will actually leave Smash 4 alone while all of the sane people move in to try it out, but I kind of doubt that possibility too. Maybe I'm just a major pessimist though.

I hope the wars stop. But I know the fighting will continue. No matter how good the game is, there will always be "those" guys. But I also hope, like you said, that they stay FAR from the game.

And the whole Project M over Sm4sh thing, without having even played the latter, just upsets me greatly.

But, I'm sure it will turn out fine in the end. I'll try to be the optimist here.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

A little, but i'm still gonna buy it no matter what and keep playing it no matter what. Because its smash.

I play all smash games competitively, and even tho I prefer PM melee and 64 over brawl. I agree with the people who say the feuds need to stop, it's stupid and pointless. I will never understand why the community needs to constantly argue about these kinds of things, i mean i hear some Wii U vs. 3ds rumblings already... c'mon people.

 

[SmashChu]

Because I CLEARLY hate anything that isn't Melee just because I dislike Brawl. Because you CLEARLY know how I feel about the Smash series better than I actually do. Because I CLEARLY hate anything new about the Smash series despite the literal pages and pages of posts I've contributed to the Smash 4 section because of how much I'm eagerly anticipating this game.

I clearly know how you feel because you told me. You told me how Brawl changed too much. You even define yourself as a Melee player. You claim you are one way but your response shows you believe something totally different. You love Melee but not the series. Go read my other post to find out why.

I'm done with this troll. People like you are why the Melee and Brawl communities will never get along.

Reason the communities wont get along is because one is a cult. And for the record, I was never trolling you. I don't think you know what trolling is.

 

[Blaziruku]

I think Sakurai will do fine! I mean IMO I thought Brawl was a step in the right direction, (but albeit a bit TOO casual). I liked Melee, but it had a far too wide gap between players, and Brawl tried to "negate" that. Since Sakurai said it'll be sorta in between, I think that's awesome. Brawl felt the right pace for me, albeit a little slower, so a little spice up in speed would be great. And also considering since slow-characters have a huge disadvantage, which making the game more accessible and not speeding it a great amount definitely helps them (see in Melee the top tier were the fastest characters, Marth/Fox, etc). I don't think they were really that great either in Brawl, but at least they felt better in the competition.

Whatever Sakurai is doing with this game, I for sure will enjoy it just like I have enjoyed the past 3 games. (well unless they remove Ike, then I'll be pretty sad)

 

[The Real Gamer]

Reason the communities wont get along is because one is a cult.

Oh God... I just......... Can someone please point me to where I can find the ignore function on this site? Never had to utilize it in my 5+ years of posting here up until now.

EDIT: Found it. That's one less annoyance I'll have to deal with.

 

[Lotusclaw8]

Man all this drama over video games Not saying that the game isn't important but I have just recently joined the smash community and I'm already tired of this whole "war" thing *sigh*.

But am I worried about the game's quality? Long answer short: no.

 

[majora_787]

Man all this drama over video games Not saying that the game isn't important but I have just recently joined the smash community and I'm already tired of this whole "war" thing *sigh*.

But am I worried about the game's quality? Long answer short: no.

Imagine how people feel who've been putting up with this "war" thing for seven or so years now. It's not less pointless now than it was then.

 

[Lotusclaw8]

Imagine how people feel who've been putting up with this "war" thing for seven or so years now. It's not less pointless now than it was then.

Yeah, I suppose then That I am really lucky in that regard huh?

 

[Zalak]

It's just impossible to please two polar opposites. I do think it's best to not just lean one way, like Melee leaned so heavily towards the competitive scene and Brawl leaned so heavily towards the casual scene. I really hope Sakurai can execute his little plan of hitting the in-between. The competitive scene will most likely never get another Melee, and this certainly isn't the game for that either, but that doesn't mean it's going to lack in quality, it just means that the smaller competitive fanbase will probably still stick to Melee/Project M.

I don't get this mindset. Melee may have a lot of depth, but it was also very accessible. I played melee for years before I got into competitive play, and loved it. Casual brawl was a little more fun than casual melee, but that's only due to the new items and characters. (Also the stage builder was awesome.) In terms of pure gameplay, I like melee more. If i'm gonna play competitively i'll play melee. If I want to play casually, i'll play brawl. I don't like brawl more for casual play because it's a more casual game. I like it more because it has more stuff.

I don't see a reason why the game can't suit both types of people.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I don't get this mindset. Melee may have a lot of depth, but it was also very accessible. I played melee for years before I got into competitive play, and loved it. Casual brawl was a little more fun than casual melee, but that's only due to the new items and characters. (Also the stage builder was awesome.) In terms of pure gameplay, I like melee more. If i'm gonna play competitively i'll play melee. If I want to play casually, i'll play brawl. I don't like brawl more for casual play because it's a more casual game. I like it more because it has more stuff.

I don't see a reason why the game can't suit both types of people.

Melee wasn't too hard against the casuals back in the Gamecube days. However, with a full-fledged online system, casuals would get clobbered. Even if you put in an Elo system, there will always be those douchebags which find a way around it just to clobber beginners.

As a casual myself when Brawl first came out, I loved how you could do multiple attacks in air without dying. I've also had some of my friends who only began playing Smash with Brawl check out Melee, and I'm not kidding when I say they've said that it sucks in comparison. So in the eyes of the casuals going back to Melee-style gameplay would be dumping down the gameplay as far as I see it, since Melee plays extremely laggy without l-cancelling, and in all honesty it's pretty bad unless you do l-cancel, and you can't ask a casual player to sit down and learn such things, especially not in order to enjoy the gameplay that he could enjoy fully in the previous installment of the game.

Melee was just accessible because of the time it came out, but today it's a game for the hardcores and the people who sit down and learn all the tricks.

It doesn't need to be as slow as campy as Brawl by no means, but in order for the casuals to enjoy the game to its fullest it won't go back to the Melee-style gameplay, it's just not very user-friendly

 

[The Real Gamer]

As a casual myself when Brawl first came out, I loved how you could do multiple attacks in air without dying. I've also had some of my friends who only began playing Smash with Brawl check out Melee, and I'm not kidding when I say they've said that it sucks in comparison. So in the eyes of the casuals going back to Melee-style gameplay would be dumping down the gameplay as far as I see it, since Melee plays extremely laggy without l-cancelling, and in all honesty it's pretty bad unless you do l-cancel, and you can't ask a casual player to sit down and learn such things, especially not in order to enjoy the gameplay that he could enjoy fully in the previous installment of the game.

This is why I'm such a huge supporter of auto L-canceling. It allows casuals to follow their aerials up easier but still maintains the depth needed for more movement options in competitive play.

 

[Renji64]

I hope the wars stop. But I know the fighting will continue. No matter how good the game is, there will always be "those" guys. But I also hope, like you said, that they stay FAR from the game.

And the whole Project M over Sm4sh thing, without having even played the latter, just upsets me greatly.

But, I'm sure it will turn out fine in the end. I'll try to be the optimist here.

Well you can't blame those people sakurai doesn't try to appeal to them this game seems like it is heading the brawl 2.0 direction with tripping removed as of now.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

This is why I'm such a huge supporter of auto L-canceling. It allows casuals to follow their aerials up easier but still maintains the depth needed for more movement options in competitive play.

That could work, that or just reduced landing lag all across the board. I do think that auto-cancelling would work best out of those two, since it'd fix one of the big problems the competitive scene had with Brawl, while the casual scene would simply have to learn to properly react to the new change of pace, which is pretty much an automatic process you do by just playing the game, unlike having to make an input on the right frame.

I do think it'd be great to combine the aspects of Brawl and Melee, to make some kind of perfect harmony, and this is just one of the things that could be done. Whether Sakurai will make that much of an effort to strike that balance remains to be seen, though it's certainly not out of question.

 

[Ulevo]

If people go back to Melee, that means they're stuck in the past...let's all face it, Brawl was NOT a better competitive game than Melee, but it was a MUCH BETTER game as a whole. It's just that these people can't seem to get their head out of their wavedashing as*es. People who are able to grasp new gameplay mechanics will just move on to SSBWiiU like they should, and people who can't accept that "Melee-competitive" is NOT a good reference point will just keep playing Fox and Marth on Final Destination with no items, sad for them.

Nah, I'm pretty sure Melee was a much better game as a whole as well.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Well, I wouldn't say those who prefer to stay to Melee are "stuck in the past" it's moreso they just don't find Brawl's gameplay enjoyable compated to Melee's gameplay.

Overall Brawl certainly exceeded Melee in term of content and offering more gameplay options, having several more bosses as well as a mode to fight them, the introduction of the Final Smashes, improvng the snapshot feature (in Brawl one can take photos during almost any mode with any controller, in Melee snapshots could only be taken during one special mode, and the 4th controller had to be used to take snapshots) allowed players to combine several different specials modes, and introduced online play, with both friends or with anyone.

Continue this discussion as you all wish, as this is all I'm saying on the matter.

 

[BKupa666]

One item for consideration beyond gameplay: I think Melee will always be the community's go-to game because it's incredibly easy to pick up and play at any time. Because the GameCube takes just seconds to boot up in comparison to the multiple screens and loading times on the Wii and Wii U, people will naturally gravitate toward it for quick matches. At least that's what I've experienced in college dorms thus far, and I imagine it carries over to tournaments to some degree as well.

 

[majora_787]

Well, I wouldn't say those who prefer to stay to Melee are "stuck in the past" it's moreso they just don't find Brawl's gameplay enjoyable compated to Melee's gameplay.

Overall Brawl certainly exceeded Melee in term of content and offering more gameplay options, having several more bosses as well as a mode to fight them, the introduction of the Final Smashes, the ability to take photos during almost any mode with any controller, in Melee snapshots could only be taken during one special mode, and the 4th controller had to be used to take snapshots) allowed players to combine several different specials modes, and introduced online play, with both friends or with anyone.

Continue this discussion as you all wish, as this is all I'm saying on the matter.

I think it's a weird split between people who actually get Brawl and Melee and prefer Melee, and people who get Melee and either do or don't get Brawl but decide that Brawl is incapable of being a good experience objectively because it isn't close enough to being Melee. And people can pretend all they want that that second group doesn't exist and the first group is the only one, but I've seen enough of both to know better.

All I know is, my beef is more with people who aren't able to acknowledge games other than "Oh. Well that's Not Melee 1.0, and now Smash 4 is Not Melee 2.0. I guess I just have to stick to Project M and Melee. The series and the dream are dead."

 

[SmashChu]

Oh God... I just......... Can someone please point me to where I can find the ignore function on this site? Never had to utilize it in my 5+ years of posting here up until now.

EDIT: Found it. That's one less annoyance I'll have to deal with.

The tears, they are delicious. Maybe I should troll. Its seems I can really rile people up just stating the obvious.

I don't get this mindset. Melee may have a lot of depth, but it was also very accessible. I played melee for years before I got into competitive play, and loved it. Casual brawl was a little more fun than casual melee, but that's only due to the new items and characters. (Also the stage builder was awesome.) In terms of pure gameplay, I like melee more. If i'm gonna play competitively i'll play melee. If I want to play casually, i'll play brawl. I don't like brawl more for casual play because it's a more casual game. I like it more because it has more stuff.

I don't see a reason why the game can't suit both types of people.

Wariofan already pointed it out, but the problem was there was a lot of unnecessary hurdles. To list a few

• You couldn't grab the ledge if you were facing backwards. It was also very easy to turn your character around with some recoveries
• You could only air dodge once and you are completely vulnerable afterwards. Even if you don't do a bad dodge, its very hard for the person in the air to get out of harm's way
• Perfect shielding was far harder. It also reflected projectiles for some reason
• L-canceling which is just a pointless tech. Give a huge advantage to neckberd who play the game for 60 hours a week instead of getting a job or passing their classes. Hope you don't have a normal life. Same for Wavedashing
• Longer hitstun (by a lot). Gives you less control over your character
• The speed, though this could be overcome a lot easier than the rest.

 

[Zalak]

Wariofan already pointed it out, but the problem was there was a lot of unnecessary hurdles. To list a few

• You couldn't grab the ledge if you were facing backwards. It was also very easy to turn your character around with some recoveries
• You could only air dodge once and you are completely vulnerable afterwards. Even if you don't do a bad dodge, its very hard for the person in the air to get out of harm's way
• Perfect shielding was far harder. It also reflected projectiles for some reason
• L-canceling which is just a pointless tech. Give a huge advantage to neckberd who play the game for 60 hours a week instead of getting a job or passing their classes. Hope you don't have a normal life. Same for Wavedashing
• Longer hitstun (by a lot). Gives you less control over your character
• The speed, though this could be overcome a lot easier than the rest.

L-canceling is NOT hard. When I learned about L-canceling, it took me 3 attempts to get it right! THREE! That was under fifteen seconds.

 

[majora_787]

L-canceling is NOT hard. When I learned about L-canceling, it took me 3 attempts to get it right! THREE! That was under fifteen seconds.

Not everyone might find it easy. And even then, some people may have this ungodly expectation that they should be able to play a good game without peripheral techniques.

 

[SmashChu]

L-canceling is NOT hard. When I learned about L-canceling, it took me 3 attempts to get it right! THREE! That was under fifteen seconds.

Note that you have to do it in rapid succession. Anyone can do it on things like Link's Down B.

It has other issues as well. One is that it's purely technical and offer no strategic application. There is no reason not to do it, so it becomes a useless input. Second, it makes all air moves safe which defetes the purpose. The game becomes stupid when you can just spam moves with no risk. There needs to be an element of risk reward. This is how you separate the game from being pure inputs to being an engaging game.