Anyone contemplating giving up?

[Nergal69]

I think his problems could be answered with a few potential options.

1. The ability to have more than one Mecha-Koopa present on the battlefield, allowing Jr. to zone as he was meant to. An opponent can't answer to two of them as easily as he can one; the reason for this being that unlike Diddy's banana, Mecha-Koopas walk toward your enemy, making it a facile task to simply stand idle and press a or dash attack into them at the right time. A banana is stationary, forcing the enemy to come to it, allowing for superior, less fallible set-ups.

or

2. Mecha-Koopas cannot be picked up by enemies. This is self-explanatory as far as utility is concerned.

or

3. Bowser Jr. can hover. He's riding in a clown car for pity's sake, why not have him hover like Peach does on his second jump?

Hovering is something I DEFINITELY would love to see. Other than that, I concur with the other two points as well;
more mecha-koopas = more pressure
My Lemmy is usually pretty good in battle, but some characters can just hit me too hard with my own koopas.

 

[SmashChu]

From what I've seen online, you can be quite good with Bower Jr. He's got a lot of options and he can be very tricky. Funny enough, it always seems to be Japanese players who use him.

 

[BradyAnd]

if you feel like giving up, than give up. determination is a big factor, and if you don't have that with a certain character than they're not gonna be good, obviously. if you're thinking Jr sucks than he probably does. for YOU, at least.

I've enjoyed playing with Bowser Jr. He has limitations, just like all the other characters, but I think to say he stands no chance competitively isn't fair, especially since the game's only been out a couple of months.

 

[T-block]

Played a tournament this weekend.

I think we're actually really good against C. Falcon (who is a pretty good character imo - not top 10 or anything, but pretty damn solid). I co-main Rosalina, and I think Bowser Jr. actually does better in this matchup.

vs. Diddy is completely absolutely hopeless though and I got bopped by someone significantly worse than me before I 2-stocked him twice as Rosalina.

Basically, as many others have been saying, we can do pretty well in some matchups, but definitely have a secondary if you're actually aiming to win tournaments.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I don't understand why people get personally offended when their character is considered low tier. As long as you enjoy using it, who cares how bad it is?

No one enjoys losing, especially as a character they like. You may not lose all the time, but there's a very good chance you will if you go up against a top tier character.

 

[toadster101]

No one enjoys losing, especially as a character they like. You may not lose all the time, but there's a very good chance you will if you go up against a top tier character.

That's not what I meant at all. I'm talking about the people who adamantly defend their character of choice like it's a human being, even though some are - unfortunately - better than others. That's the reality of competitive gaming, I'm afraid.

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

I'm absolutely not giving up on my boy Iggy.

Bowser Jr./Koopalings have a pretty high learning curve, sure. Most of their moves have extreme end-lag, sure. He's pretty easy to gimp, sure. *Insert other cons of using Bowser Jr./Koopalings.*

Do I let that stop me? Absolutely not.​

Iggy is my favorite Koopaling, and his playstyle is extremely fun to me. Ever since I tried him out, I knew he'd be my new main. From day 1, I've been learning many, many different things to use in matches on my own (I don't like looking up strategies/techniques), and playing all the matchups with all the characters that I could.
I've been adapting and honing my Iggy to where he's a beast to play against. I'm all over the place, and I've become quite good at throwing opponents off at all angles. Having a high learning curve and not being easy to play actually makes Iggy more fun for me. I don't find appeal in using "lel easy top tiers, easy wins."

Actually, I've let his drawbacks and limitations be encouragement to hone my Iggy playstyle. It's taken a good while of practicing against friends and in training, sure. But it's been fun. He's a pretty high-risk character, who has great rewards. I have to play with great reads a lot of the time which is also fun.

In regards to the "He's not top tier, guess I better drop him" mindset, please don't let that intrude your mind. Sure, some people pick top tiers just to win, but if you took a liking to Bowser Jr./Koopalings, please don't switch just because he's hard to use and isn't top tier. Take time to develop your own playstyle, figure out ways to throw opponents off, figure out what your kill moves are and great ways to set-up into them. etc.

Me being a Yoshi main in Melee, it's pretty much the same boat, but I'm one of very few Melee Yoshi mains out there, but I didn't give him up either because I like a challenge, and I like his moveset. (Dislike him in Smash 4 though, because he's super safe and easy to use)

TL;DR, play the character you like, not the character you think you should play just to win. It isn't fun that way.

 

[Lukred]

please, nobody ever give up on a character because they are considered mid-tier. At the end of the day, if you are enjoying the good games more than the bad, then they are worth it, and there is nothing more satisfying than a lower tier beating up a higher tier, its a ticket to the "waay, im better than you" train

 

[Funkermonster]

Maybe these videos of a player named Tweek will change your minds:
vs. Vinnie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXFNWK_wKME&feature=youtu.be
vs. 6WX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEcMFLmrjSg

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Maybe these videos of a player named Tweek will change your minds:
vs. Vinnie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXFNWK_wKME&feature=youtu.be
vs. 6WX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEcMFLmrjSg

Thanks.
I'm gonna focus on the Koopa Clown more!

 

[BradyAnd]

Actually, I've let his drawbacks and limitations be encouragement to hone my Iggy playstyle. It's taken a good while of practicing against friends and in training, sure. But it's been fun. He's a pretty high-risk character, who has great rewards. I have to play with great reads a lot of the time which is also fun.

I agree with this statement a lot. Bowser Jr's not only fun to play with, but he's fun to learn, if that makes sense. Figuring out on your own how to use each move to it's fullest potential is a lot more enjoyable than just using a character that other people have deemed good. I've tried other characters, but nothing's quite as satisfying as that clown car tbh.

And, honestly, if mid/low-tier characters were that bad, wouldn't everyone just abandon them for Rosalina and Diddy Kong?

 

[meleebrawler]

I agree with this statement a lot. Bowser Jr's not only fun to play with, but he's fun to learn, if that makes sense. Figuring out on your own how to use each move to it's fullest potential is a lot more enjoyable than just using a character that other people have deemed good. I've tried other characters, but nothing's quite as satisfying as that clown car tbh.

And, honestly, if mid/low-tier characters were that bad, wouldn't everyone just abandon them for Rosalina and Diddy Kong?

Rosalina is so last version. Sheik is where it's at now.

(Jk I know she is still very good).

 

[Xzsmmc]

That's not what I meant at all. I'm talking about the people who adamantly defend their character of choice like it's a human being, even though some are - unfortunately - better than others. That's the reality of competitive gaming, I'm afraid.

Oh. I suppose its because they feel attached to them (Sometimes waaaay to much so. You of all people should know who I mean), and don't want them to be seen as weak.

 

[Ultinarok]

1v1 he is, meh at best. 2v2 Bowser Jr. Kicks so much arse it is unreal. So I think he is destined to be a support character in 2v2 matches.

This. People using Bowser Jr. for their 1v1s are going to struggle, his playstyle is not set up for them. He is a campy support character who is EXTREMELY good at punishing. When partnered with a good rushdown character like Falcon or Sheik, or with another character who can capitalize on spacing like Marth, Jr. is incredible. I've watched some good players like Mr.Doom8000 (premier Ike main in Brawl) use him in doubles FG and literally be undefeated and not lose a single stock in 8 or 9 games.

People should practice using him for doubles and using a more singles-focused character for 1v1s. I feel like it will mitigate everyone's pessimism towards this character if they don't force themselves to try 1v1s until they are no longer enjoying this incredibly entertaining and fun character. Seriously, NO ONE in this game is as hilarious and fun to use as the koopalings, regardless of their lack of 1v1 viability. Don't abandon this character completely. Play them in doubles and see for yourself how much more effective they are.

 

[HakuryuVision]

As most here pointed out, Bowser Jr is really unique and fun to play as.
...that said, he doesn't really do well in tournaments so far, and fighting a good opponent is always an extreme uphill battle. His approaches are very limited, and i feel like his F-smash sometimes doesn't properly connect.

While i won't stop playing him from time to time, i do see why some people would drop playing him in competitive fights.

 

[WarioWaft]

I'm interested in using BowJow.

He's probably one character I find most difficult to play against even when they suck.

I use Wario, DH and Oli. I've seen BowJow's potential for projectile game. I may give him a chance next week.

 

[NidoMay]

I'm pretty guilty of this line of thinking. While Jr was practically a shoe-in, if you went back to Brawl's release and told me the next one would have Koopalings, I'd have called you a liar. It just seemed impossible and well... it'd be so disheartening to see them suffer after they finally got included in smash.

Still, honestly there's a lot of potential. Heck, rather recently on the other threads we've found some neat tricks like spawning mechakoopas in a manner that lets you grab them immediately, a few edgeguarding tools such as nair stage spikes or footstool ejections. Sure mechas can be grabbed but that's not the easiest timing to pull off (regardless of what the cpu makes it look like) and can sometimes be avoided only to (literally) bite foes in the arse. SideB goes nicely as both a mindgames and rushdown move with a couple of nice options for move chainings and shield-poking fsmash, quick usmash and disjointed hitboxes all around. Being about tied with Charizard in weight with a far, far better recovery also helps.

I really do hope we can actually have some interesting choices be viable since I really hated Melee's "pick Fox to win" metagame. Or Diddy/Shiek in this case...

 

[waldorf2007]

I feel pretty good about how i play against almost everyone except rosa, diddy, and sheik. It's like a death sentence for BJ. I think you need another character for them, whatever it may be.

Doubles tho

 

[Golden Sun]

Bowser Jr. is now Ganondorf(brawl)

His play is complete trash, he does well in some matches, but that means "SOME"
he cant do crap against most characters who can easily go around him(Fox/Rosa/Diddy/Sonic), a lot of his moves are predictable and has no approaches, I understand why people still main him, because he has some potential, but just barely any, I tried to main Bowser Jr. once, but he's not the character most people want to play, such a cool design with the clown kart...
But I have to say, he is a complete monster against other MU's.

 

[meleebrawler]

Bowser Jr. is now Ganondorf(brawl)

His play is complete trash, he does well in some matches, but that means "SOME"
he cant do crap against most characters who can easily go around him(Fox/Rosa/Diddy/Sonic), a lot of his moves are predictable and has no approaches, I understand why people still main him, because he has some potential, but just barely any, I tried to main Bowser Jr. once, but he's not the character most people want to play, such a cool design with the clown kart...
But I have to say, he is a complete monster against other MU's.

Brawl Ganondorf didn't do well against anyone, he just had matches that were not completely terrible.

Jr. can't approach? Well it's good thing he has mechakoopas to throw or seize parts of the stage
so that he doesn't have to just bum-rush people with his very fast kart which can be canceled
very easily to protect himself...

 

[Tater]

Brawl Ganondorf didn't do well against anyone, he just had matches that were not completely terrible.

Jr. can't approach? Well it's good thing he has mechakoopas to throw or seize parts of the stage
so that he doesn't have to just bum-rush people with his very fast kart which can be canceled
very easily to protect himself...

MechaKoopas offer stage control, and can even set up deadly combos if they catch an opponent unaware.

That being said, MechaKoopas are slow to deploy, meaning you get punished if you try to use them under pressure. Which should be just about always when playing against someone familiar with Jr.

In addition, MechaKoopas can:

1. Be picked up if they are walking on the ground.
2. Be shielded when walking on the ground. They simply walk right past your opponent.
3. Be caught easily if thrown.

To name a few.

The kart is a good move, and is a fairly large part of Jr's play. The kart itself has super armor, making it an intimidating approach for an opponent unfamiliar with Jr. You can jump out of it, leading into combos (Bonus fun fact: Popping your opponent into the air with your kart, hopping out, then up-B hammer is a true combo at kill % for the entire cast within ~15% of the minimum kill percentage)

But, if you hit Jr himself(Think of whack-a-mole, but way easier cause the mole is always there) he'll take knockback and even a little extra damage (re: hitting the koopa does more damage than hitting the kart) and his kart will be cancelled, allowing an easy followup.

If your opponent LITERALLY JUST SHIELDS THE KART there are no safe options other than jump+air dodge which is predictable once you've done it five times out of your kart being shielded. If they shield the kart and you time a spinout correctly you can do a good amount of shield damage, but they can punish you during the ending lag from the kart spinout.

In addition, you can't do hardly anything out of kart once they get past a certain % (Crazy combos stop at 10%, kart~uair stops around 50%, and the aforementioned true combo to death works only at a small % range as well).

I love Jr. I really do. I'm playing him forever. But I'm not going to ignore his flaws or try to undermine them. If you play this character perfectly and I mean perfectly he is a force to be reckoned with. But if your opponent is aware of his shortcomings and simply stays patient, you can't do anything about it. Period.

 

[meleebrawler]

If Jr. is a mole while driving, then he's a mole with a hammer and all too eager to introduce it to those
who would bop him on the head.

That said, it's true that both Mechakoopa and the kart, individually, are easily dealt with.
It's when they're used together, and sometimes in conjunction with other moves that they become useful.
A walking Mechakoopa isn't so easy to pick up when a car is coming alongside it. It also makes reflecting
them somewhat pointless since Jr. will just drive through them. And although you already mentioned up b's
combo potential out of it, even just dropping it on shields is good to punish those who are too hasty to capitalize
on Jr's "failed" drive-in.

Them walking past shielding opponents means they can continue to be a threat afterwards
(assuming you're not too far from the edge). Finally, if your opponent is good at catching thrown
mechakoopas, just put their timers to use and throw them as they're about to blow up.

I understand how up-close pressure makes things difficult for Jr., and how the fact that most of the current
top tiers are great at that sort of thing hurts his viability, but I don't see how playing "patiently" gets consistent
results unless the opponent knows Jr. AND his player really well.

 

[Drippy]

Did anyone see that Bowser Jr at APEX? I don't think he made it far (didn't watch the second day much at all) but boy was he a really good Bowser Jr IMO. It certainly has raised my morale for Bowser Jr's potential and I think I'll soon become a dedicated Bowser Jr player, especially since I can't help but feel like I'm commanding Simon in his gunmen Lagann. Just remember guys! BELIEVE IN THE ME THAT BELIEVES IN YOU! Lets not give up on Bowser Jr, especially after seeing that insane Pacman player who made it to top 8 at APEX (a character who I wouldn't really say is top tier)

 

[Aixitey]

Since the first time I played Smash 3DS I saw and played Bowser Jr. and I got so much fun seeing his Dtilt and his Dair and Fsmash. The Dtilt made me think about JoJo's Bizarre Adventure's rero rero rero. And the drills made me think about Gurren Lagann. Being a fan of these and seeing about how he could troll with some of his moves, I got attracted to him.
I get a lot of fun playing him and I love to do some stylish things with Jr. and I love being stylish.

To conclude I think I'm not giving up Jr. before a long time. It's a character that I like to play and I can win with him. The fact that I don't know very much players playing him is leading me to do some in depths researches about the character.

 

[NidoMay]

I think for aspiring players that maybe AceStarThe3rd's are worth checking out, he actually seems to make 'em work for rushing down as well. First ep's a bit shakey but in all three so far there's been no losses. :3

 

[Tater]

If Jr. is a mole while driving, then he's a mole with a hammer and all too eager to introduce it to those
who would bop him on the head.

That said, it's true that both Mechakoopa and the kart, individually, are easily dealt with.
It's when they're used together, and sometimes in conjunction with other moves that they become useful.
A walking Mechakoopa isn't so easy to pick up when a car is coming alongside it. It also makes reflecting
them somewhat pointless since Jr. will just drive through them. And although you already mentioned up b's
combo potential out of it, even just dropping it on shields is good to punish those who are too hasty to capitalize
on Jr's "failed" drive-in.

Them walking past shielding opponents means they can continue to be a threat afterwards
(assuming you're not too far from the edge). Finally, if your opponent is good at catching thrown
mechakoopas, just put their timers to use and throw them as they're about to blow up.

I understand how up-close pressure makes things difficult for Jr., and how the fact that most of the current
top tiers are great at that sort of thing hurts his viability, but I don't see how playing "patiently" gets consistent
results unless the opponent knows Jr. AND his player really well.

Your opponent can shield your kart and koopa at the same time, you know. And using them close together leaves the possibility of them picking up the koopa and lobbing it at you in your kart. The explosion hitbox is big enough to knock you out of the kart no matter where they hit you with it. They can also always just jump over you and the mech and air dodge if they know you're going to attack out of kart, allowing for an escape or maybe even a punish. That being said, mechakoopas can shield poke if you whittle down your opponent's shield, so I suppose in specific scenarios that approach could work.

Using up+B out of them shielding your kart is dangerous to say the least. Believe me, I've used that for a while. People who are surprised by it or slow to adapt will get hit, yes, but they can still just roll out of the explosion(Or maybe even spot dodge if they're precise) and you'll be floating above their heads too high to punish their reaction. That kinda brings me back to the whole "If your opponent knows Jr. it's way harder to win" thing.


You make a good point about using the timer on thrown mechakoopas. I hadn't given that much thought.


The reason someone playing patiently against Jr works for them is because Jr's toolkit is built entirely around punishing mistakes. If you play patiently(Or perfectly, but patiently seems to be the more realistic option of the two) you're unlikely to make mistakes, forcing Jr to either approach with easily punishable moves or try to hit you with predictable and slow projectiles. One of which you can lob back at him.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade I'm just saying Jr has a lot of shortcomings and if you don't keep that in mind you'll find yourself frustrated and disappointed in competition.

 

[NidoMay]

Just messed about in training mode, managed to get some early KOs on characters by knocking offstage, jumping, fair, jump again, fair again then clownkart and upb back. Wish I could have done it with moving opponents that'd make effort but then it'd be cheat-airdodging everything that a human player couldn't do.

Dropping and fair works too but you can't get as far with it. Still a good possible use for their fantastic recovery... though it's to be expected from what's usually a flying machine.

 

[pikazz]

I main Jr because I love the playstyle, the design and I love Jr in general.

he has great options, combo potential and stage control. I have played against really good Shieks, Sonics, Diddys and Rosalinas on for glory and I mean really good. I won around 70-80% of them by being tricky and have reads!
however, Jr do indeed have some flaws which prevents him for being better.

this is what I hoping for they will buff:

1. Faster speed or interrupt for deploying Mecha Koopa.
I love mecha koopa since they give him some stage controlls that he needs, but the animation for deploying those indeed takes time! either speed up the animation or make it so you can either interrupt it earlier with shielding, attacks and stuff! would also make it easier to grab the MK before it runs away. like you can already walk up to it and grab it before it will start to walk

2. bigger hitstun on Up B on clown cart falling down.
if you do UpB on the ground and the clown cart hits the opponent early, the opponent will have time to land and shield before the main explosion! if the hitstun was bigger on that hit it can be more deadly to use.
the explosion should also put more pressure on the shield like explosion do

3. Landing Dair Cancel should work on shields.
if you hit someone with Landing Dair, you will have no landing lag, meaning you can do whatever you want while the opponent still in hitstun.
however if the opponent is shielding, you will have to struggle with both landing lag and punishment!
if it also works on shield, you will be able to grab the shield while the opponent is still in shield stun! (it works on Rosalina if you LDC on her Luma if she tries to shield!)
speaking on grabs...

4. grabs that can kill!
sadly, Jr isnt known for killing with grabs and I wish he do have some grabs that can! like his FThrow and BThrow should kill cause you punch them hard with a robotnic boxing glove yet its not as good as Marios throws!

5. Moves that can hurt shields more.
none of Jr moves put shield pressure on the opponent shields, thats one thing I dont like with Jr, since a aggressive Jr cant do much against shields except for grabs! like his SideSmash should be able to do it since his reveal trailer showed his SideSmash breaking Marios Shield with ease! speaking of SideSmash...

6. SideSmash should have better hitboxes.
lets face it, hitting SideSmash is hard sometimes cause there is a safe between Jr and the drills while the sweetspot is actually further away from Jr than the multihitting ones! thats sad! remove the safespot and increase the sweetspot size aswell!

7. SideB should have higher super armor.
I know that he has, but sometimes it never seems that he has there I have encountered that he gets hit by the simpliest attack sometimes while it was hit on the clown cart!

thats some of the buff I really want him to have! he is great otherwise (A-B Tier Material if you ask me), but he can be little better!

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Uhh what? Back throw IS a kill move.

 

[NidoMay]

Mostly on higher %. However it is really good for setting up something like that, doing about 12-13% not including pummels.

Fsmash doesn't break shields, however the last hit can cause damage to it and if it was already a bit small, just bypass it altogether.That seems to get a few surprising kills in.

 

[Jebril]

So I'll update?

His worst MU is easily Rosalina I'm fairly convinced, because Bowser Jr. has such a hard time landing and Rosalina punishes landings hard.

Since all of Bowser Jr's aerials don't autocancel, he can't really land safely, you just have to mix up your landing and hope your opponent can't read it properly or go to edge and play from there.

Secondly most of his moves are too inconsistent, D-Tilt is actually really good OoS and follow up potential with Dash Attack and other moves. However many times depending on how you hit it, the full knockback won't be given. This is the same with many of his moves, F-Air, B-Air, D-Air, F-Smash, U-Smash, Up-B, etc. Notice that many of those are his kill moves...this kinda translates to Peach in Brawl. She had kill moves they were just too inconsistent to land.

That being said if you can read your opponent properly Bowser Jr. has some devastating combos especially at lower percentages, hitting on D-Air can net ~40% from tilts and aerials.The problem is on those MUs where characters don't have to do much to force you in bad positions.

He's such a fun character I find most of the characters in this game friggin boring, even Peach in Smash 4 is boring to play. Just have fun with him in For Glory mode and try to read into Up-Bs. Also Kart to Up-B is legit for a kill string but you need to hit the kart first

And at higher percentages (140+) U-Throw will start killing especially if it's not stale and considering it's kinda useless keep it as an option. B-Throw is better for positioning instead of killing IMO.

 

[Tater]

Fair, bair, and uair all autocancel from short hop, nair autocancels from full hop/jump out of kart. Dair auto cancels from full hop if you start it at the beginning of your jump. Uair actually autocancels so early that if you're more than a half second's fall from the ground you'll be able to autocancel it. Down tilt is a fantastic move with IASA as soon as the animation for the third hit is done. The hit that will knock your opponents back is the third hit, which is prone to missing. However if your opponent isn't hit by the third hitbox, they should be in hitstun long enough from the second hit for you to send out a quick move or just back off.

 

[NidoMay]

Bthrow is also good for racking up damage, don't forgot.
About 11-12% per throw.
Not including pummels.

basically at a high % pummels and bthrow alone can tack on an approximate 20% extra, at that point even fairs will kill easily.

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

I'm always shocked at how much damage his jab does, and how the last hit can actually kill at higher percents. Granted, it's a jab that can be escaped more easily than other jabs, but it's still really good regardless.

​

 

[Rexcalibr]

Meh… he's my best character and I rarely lose with him. I'm actually surprised how many people here think he's a bad character. He has so many great options to play offensive or defensive. The clown kart dash the the fact that you can jump cancel it gives you so many options.

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

I think a factor going into why people think he's bad, is most Bowser Jr. players play very obviously and are very easy to predict.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

I think a factor going into why people think he's bad, is most Bowser Jr. players play very obviously and are very easy to predict.

It's probably more likely due to the fact he has a few barely winnable matchups.

 

[Rexcalibr]

It's probably more likely due to the fact he has a few barely winnable matchups.

I disagree. The only characters I seem to have a lot of trouble facing is someone who's really good with Toon Link, Link, or Villager.I still don't see why some of you think he's a bad character. All of his special moves are useful. I see a lot of people say his side smash is bad. You just need to space it accordingly. His neutral air is amazing. I fake people out a lot with the clown kart dash and hop cancel because there are some things you can do with that. CK dash, hit, short hop and up air. CK dash off the stage, short hop and drop a mecha koopa right at the edge of the stage, then ejection seat up and catch the ledge. Sometimes I CK dash right up to them, short hop right above them because they're going to be blocking, and then fast fall down with a neutral air.I think some of you may not be using him correctly. I'm not sure but if anyone wants to challenge me, my gamer tag is Rexcalibr.

 

[Glicnak]

I disagree. The only characters I seem to have a lot of trouble facing is someone who's really good with Toon Link, Link, or Villager.I still don't see why some of you think he's a bad character. All of his special moves are useful. I see a lot of people say his side smash is bad. You just need to space it accordingly. His neutral air is amazing. I fake people out a lot with the clown kart dash and hop cancel because there are some things you can do with that. CK dash, hit, short hop and up air. CK dash off the stage, short hop and drop a mecha koopa right at the edge of the stage, then ejection seat up and catch the ledge. Sometimes I CK dash right up to them, short hop right above them because they're going to be blocking, and then fast fall down with a neutral air.I think some of you may not be using him correctly. I'm not sure but if anyone wants to challenge me, my gamer tag is Rexcalibr.

Not to speak for moosebones, but he didn't say bjr was a bad character, he said he has some barely winnable matchups. We know all the things you can do out of CK, but that doesn't change the fact that some characters won't even let you get that far. I don't play tournaments and from your answer I'm gonna assume you don't have too much tourney experience either, but even watching some videos of "pros" you can tell against some characters (when played very well) there's almost nothing you can do at times. Of course, nothing is unwinnable, but I'm definitely not confident in my Bjr skills enough to walk into a tournament with no secondary ready specifically for those few MU's

Edit: was basing my claim about you not playing tourneys from "Smash Rookie" but I just saw that you also only made this account wednesday so I will recant that unless you confirm it's true. Regardless, I don't know of any tournament player so confident in their skills. If you are talking about for glory, it isn't an accurate representation of how great players will handle their characters. If you are talking about tournament play, please post videos because I will flip on a dime and bow to you

Edit 2: Also pm me if you wanna play always up for some more experience!

 

[pikazz]

making Diddies and Sheiks ragequit on for glory with Jr are always fun and keep me to continuing with playing as him :'3