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Let's get some games in some time to see who's right lol.
So, you're right about King K being read dependant, but I don't think that holds people back since he's such a hard hitter (but maybe that's just my pride). King K actually has a very strong neutral. His projectiles set up neutral really well. Crown and cannonball are easy to deal with on their own, but when you have a slow moving cannonball that eats hits, an unstoppable crown, and the second heaviest character in the game all charging at you at once, it's not so easy to deal with. And I think you're underestimating shield and overestimating how often it's used. The way I play, at least, I only use belly as a get-down option or to hopefully trade / beat projectiles. Against Corrin I'm not even a little bit scared for my belly armor. Again, the only thing I'm actually worried about against Corrin is how long her smash attacks are, and Nair. Besides that, I firmly believe K Rool has the tools to beat Corrin.
But srs, lets get online so you can prove me wrong.
I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, I was pointing out how heavily his flaws get countered overall regardless of character. You're right that his projectiles setup his neutral but if someone's constantly pressuring K Rool, setting up sometimes isn't feasible. I'm not a K Rool expert but from what I've seen effectively use shielding as a way to get grabs and set up dthrow followups. If you're not scared of nairing then you're probably using the move conservatively and correctly. Like I said earlier I haven't played a competent K Rool main and in my matches this was a major problem for them. Of course K Rool has the tools to win but my belief is that Corrin has more than enough tools to make it a winning mu for her. I'm not making this a battle of who's right or wrong those were just my views alone and I'm always looking towards to making them more accurate with input from people who seriously play the character like yourself. I'm always down to play, if you have discord you should dm me it if you're up to chat as well.
I know it's the meme at this point that beats King K...but really what am I supposed to do?
Her nair combos into itself up to like, 80%. She can reflect all of our projectiles. Getting grabbed is pretty much a free KO at higher percents. Explosive Flame is pretty much a win button against K Rool. Getting down from above is a nightmare, even with our nair armor.
I like to think every match up is somewhat viable, but this just seems like a losing battle. It has to be 70/30 right?
Game & Watch's reflect and patty flipping thing make being king k difficult amongst other factors. richter is super challenging too. sword characters with their below 4 frame attacks make me wanna die as well
but i love this character and cant wait to get better with these matchups and hopefully not have to complain about em. that being said, how are you guys doing so far?
<3
I know it's the meme at this point that beats King K...but really what am I supposed to do?
Her nair combos into itself up to like, 80%. She can reflect all of our projectiles. Getting grabbed is pretty much a free KO at higher percents. Explosive Flame is pretty much a win button against K Rool. Getting down from above is a nightmare, even with our nair armor.
I like to think every match up is somewhat viable, but this just seems like a losing battle. It has to be 70/30 right?
covering some points i have noticed about the troubling matchups previously listed...
Luigi: He is super floaty. If offstage gimp aggressively
Mario: Space him with ftilt. he does not kill well unless he hits a smash, and his smashes have bad range. Also play near the middle of the stage as his fair spike is good
Belmonts: Someone else covered this well. approach diagonally from the air. Also if you are on he ledge make a fast decision
Ness: Fastfall and air dodge downward to avoid pk thunder juggling. if you are going to get hit by a pk thunder, use nair. When in neutral try to jump a bit more than usual. dont worry too much about reflecting PK fire -- it hurts you more than ness -- just stay a bit outside of its range and then krown when he does PK fire or jump over and kick him. when ness goes offstage you have to sell out on jumping after him quickly and nairing him before his pk thunder has propelled him back towards the ledge
Snake: Grab the first grenade and throw it back. Use down smash or dtilt when he does the rolling dash attack. remember that for all of his strong moves the ones that are used to take stock (utilt, usmash, fsmash) dont have great horizontal range, so space him out with ftilt. this is a tough matchup & you'll need to hit on a few hard reads
Pit: Punish the heavy endlag on side b, or reflect his side b. play on mute so you dont have to hear pit's annoying voice
FE swordies: A lot of my tips here are about turning the opponents aggression against them. If starting on a battlefield stage, open by dropping down a platform with blundersuck, then throw offstage out of the blunderbuss, then a nair for 30%-0 start. when the opponent runs at you, run away and then pivot fsmash. if they try to gimp offstage, fly a bit more outward than to into them with the propeller (fly towards the opponent rather than the ledge). go for a falling blundersuck when off ledge to take a free stock. These guys tend to mash shorthop fair several times if they hit you with the first one -- must air dodge backwards.
1) Greninja. when i am offstage and have to up-b he can jump off the ledge, intentionally get hit by the propeller and then counter it
2) fox. when i have low percent he can do like 10 utilts in a row. this is frustrating and (in my opinion) a rare case of bad game design. how to best get out of this? air dodge up and away?
3) isabelle / villager. i dont see many people complain about this matchup but the shorthop slingshot bothers me. i have trouble getting in close & the Pocket down-b makes playing a camping game tough. more than any other matchup i get elimination / sudden death fights against these two
To Be noted:
Ganon MU is positive for Rool but definetly not +2 for K rool for one reason only
and its actually kinda funny ngl
Ganon literally pops k rools tum in 2 hits. And for some reason his moves are not slow at all either.
if you try to land with Nair or keep him off with Ftilt you are going to lose a stock
Granted, we can camp him out, and we can edgeguard him, but still
The fact that we can die in literally 2 hits is too hard to look over
So ganon should be put in advantage but not Free Win. You have to actaully Play VERY carefully to not lose a stock over something like a landing
Also a couple other things: How the Hell is captain Falcon in disadvantage and mii Brawler in Winning
Mii Bralwer is LITERALLY better than captain falcon in every way, in terms of his moves, his neutral, and his advantage.
[*]Mii Brawler has one of the best projectiles in the game the shot put., lingering for a long time, covering nearly all ledge options and having little end lag. Its a combonation of wolf lazers in spammability and Plant Ptooie in utility and power.
[*]Mii Brawler has a command grab in the form of side-B that does 20%, and has armor during the grab itself to make sure that it connects. That move literally borks over all of K.Rools grounded options, and any thoughts you can tum out Brawler's moves
[*]Mii Brawler also gets the ZSS Flip kick, witch I dont know if you know its basically a get out of disadvantage free card for Mii Brawler.
[*]Mii Brawler finally gets basically a better cloud up-b as a get off me tool, a OoS option, kill move. And the small but notable bonus of being really hard to interrupt.
[*]Mii Brawler has a really, REALLY freakin good combo game that he can do off of any tilt or aireal.
A Good Mii Brawler is very very troubleing for K.Rool, being able to camp out K.Rool if need be with shot put, and rush in when an opening arises to combo him for the kill. If Brawler ever feels pressure he can flip jump away or Hug his way to freedom or Up-B to push krool away. And you really cant say "well we can gimp him easily" since you can say that with anybody vs anybody in this game. When it comes down to it a lot of MUs are win or lose depending on who wins the neutral, especially for a polerizing character like K.Rool.
To Be noted:
Ganon MU is positive for Rool but definetly not +2 for K rool for one reason only
and its actually kinda funny ngl
Ganon literally pops k rools tum in 2 hits. And for some reason his moves are not slow at all either.
if you try to land with Nair or keep him off with Ftilt you are going to lose a stock
Granted, we can camp him out, and we can edgeguard him, but still
The fact that we can die in literally 2 hits is too hard to look over
So ganon should be put in advantage but not Free Win. You have to actaully Play VERY carefully to not lose a stock over something like a landing
Also a couple other things: How the Hell is captain Falcon in disadvantage and mii Brawler in Winning
Mii Bralwer is LITERALLY better than captain falcon in every way, in terms of his moves, his neutral, and his advantage.
[*]Mii Brawler has one of the best projectiles in the game the shot put., lingering for a long time, covering nearly all ledge options and having little end lag. Its a combonation of wolf lazers in spammability and Plant Ptooie in utility and power.
[*]Mii Brawler has a command grab in the form of side-B that does 20%, and has armor during the grab itself to make sure that it connects. That move literally borks over all of K.Rools grounded options, and any thoughts you can tum out Brawler's moves
[*]Mii Brawler also gets the ZSS Flip kick, witch I dont know if you know its basically a get out of disadvantage free card for Mii Brawler.
[*]Mii Brawler finally gets basically a better cloud up-b as a get off me tool, a OoS option, kill move. And the small but notable bonus of being really hard to interrupt.
[*]Mii Brawler has a really, REALLY freakin good combo game that he can do off of any tilt or aireal.
A Good Mii Brawler is very very troubleing for K.Rool, being able to camp out K.Rool if need be with shot put, and rush in when an opening arises to combo him for the kill. If Brawler ever feels pressure he can flip jump away or Hug his way to freedom or Up-B to push krool away. And you really cant say "well we can gimp him easily" since you can say that with anybody vs anybody in this game. When it comes down to it a lot of MUs are win or lose depending on who wins the neutral, especially for a polerizing character like K.Rool.
I feel like you're referencing my post from a few months ago. And to be fair, I've learned more about both Mii Brawler and C. Falcon. I think Mii Brawler is still horribly under-represented to the point where idk what they can do. I have learned that they're more fearsome than I originally thought, but I still don't think they're great against K Rool.
As for Falcon, I've gotten better at that match up in general, but Falcon can still do some really nasty things for free against the Kroc. I think I'd probably boost Falcon to neutral just because it's easy for us to gimp him, and easy for him to kill us at 70~ (and one combo from Falcon puts us at 50, if not death). He's a threat for sure despite all of his nerfs.
beats King K...but really what am I supposed to do?
