antd's Tool Assisted Videos - Super Falcon! Ultimate-Cancel Combo

ant-d · Jul 9, 2006

Added Fox's Up-Air infinite video to main page.
For those who don't know:- It explains how to do it in the google video description.

tutata · Jul 13, 2006

can you guys stream these vids i cant see any of em

ant-d · Jul 13, 2006

Maybe you don't have the 'Real' codec:
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Real_Alternative.htm

rokimomi · Jul 19, 2006

Okay, I have this stupid request but could you do a vid with fox on hyrule vs mostly anyone, and shine cancel against the wall. Normally this would make them hit the wall and bounce off but Insted, put it on 50% damage. Ive done it but not for more than 30%.
Pretty boring but funny to watch. Kinda like melee wall shining. Dosent have to be against a lvl one. But I want to find out if its possible to escape that. Oh and you should do a vid with continuous shine dashes (shine cancel dash shine cancel).

Wow what is it ith my obsession with this move. What program do you use to set the framerate anyways?

ant-d · Jul 20, 2006

I'll get round to that. I don't use a framerate, I completely control the time, it's called frame advance. You need a special coded version of Mupen64.
I'll try and explain it. I pause the emulation when I am at the point where I want to do something tricky or perfectly. I create savestates and use the 'record movie' function to record input (not output, its important).

This then records all the directions which I press and on which frames, also records the savestate location and character etc.
So then, I assign a key to move 1 frame ahead. I then hold a button on the N64 controller then press the frameadvance button. This inputs that button on the next frame.

People think it takes a long time to make vids this way... In reality it only takes a long time when you are a beginner because you don't know the game and how long certain moves last for etc so you make many mistakes.

There's also a stat which tells you how many "mistakes" I made. This is called the "re-record count". It is how many times I loaded a savestate (usualy because I tried different things, or I just made a mistake) so I needed to go back in time. Oh, also I can control both characters. This is because the only thing stopping you in realtime is the time to get to the other controller. Of course, if you control the time of the game then you can control all 4 characters. It would just be confusing to control all 4 characters at once though. I've also had no reason to control 4 :dizzy:

EDIT:-

Here is the vid:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9017701094190981673

Notes:-

Link can 'escape' (or atleast confuse the Fox player) where I run and shine him. That's by CRAZY MASHING. He could DI either to the right or to the left. This would mean Fox would have to guess which direction the DI was in. (Left would make the run shorter, Right would make the run longer) So a perfect Fox would always guess right anyway.

The timing for the dash and shine thing is pretty hard. You have to run for 2 frames then JC shine. Fox can shine (thin air) 7.5 times per second. In comparison, Ness can DJC his down air 5 times per second w/o z-cancelling. Fast moves.

Those with a sharper eye may notice that Link DI's the last few shines

This is because I couldnt see Fox's position when inside the green cage thing. So I made Link DI to the right so that Fox could easily run out. Oh, and Link falls too fast to get the 2nd shine spike when he's at the bottom of the stage.

rokimomi · Jul 20, 2006

YEEEEEESSSSS! I love it!!! Wow, I never knew it could be that fast. Whenevery I try to do it my fastest, the shine dosent come out at all. Only the dust behind fox.

ant-d · Jul 20, 2006

You need to shine 2 frames after pressing jump. You should press D+B while still on the ground.

ant-d · Jul 22, 2006

rokimomi · Jul 22, 2006

Wow, you've completely outdone your self. That's entertainment right there.

Thino · Jul 23, 2006

I shined once on a kirby without seeing it , just hearing the sound , it was just puuurfect...
but i still cant shinecancel at the beginnin of my SH , which would be great...

awesome videos btw

Haze01 · Jul 23, 2006

ant-d, those were great! Poor Link! He got tossed around in almost every video! The falcon team chain throw video was cool. The falcon / jiggly team one was fun to see as well.

Any chance that, at the very end of the falcon / jiggly video, you could get falcon down under the ship for one last hit on link? If so, that would just be awesome.

Ohhhhh! Can you make a video of a falcon team each doing their up-B in a chain throw? Is it even possible?

Last request for now; could you make some vids with link so he can get some redemption?

ant-d · Jul 23, 2006

Haze01 said:
ant-d, those were great! Poor Link! He got tossed around in almost every video! The falcon team chain throw video was cool. The falcon / jiggly team one was fun to see as well.

Any chance that, at the very end of the falcon / jiggly video, you could get falcon down under the ship for one last hit on link? If so, that would just be awesome.

Ohhhhh! Can you make a video of a falcon team each doing their up-B in a chain throw? Is it even possible?

Last request for now; could you make some vids with link so he can get some redemption?

Falcon can't get that far down in time to hit link.

UP+B team combo sounds good, I didn't think of that. I don't know the lag or trajectory of that move on the opponent to give you an answer if it would work or not. I'll try it out.

Yeah you caught on that it was always against Link. I happen to dislike the Zelda series profoundly. I don't think there's anything Link can do that I haven't already shown you.. unless you have any specfic things you can think of...

EDIT:
Falcon doesn't recover in time.
Here's 3x UP+B on Link:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7447391382181578866

Haze01 · Jul 24, 2006

I was thinking of having falcons catch link out of the air. Still not enough time? Or can link DI while flying through the air after being caught in an up-B?

If link can't DI, then you could probably set something up to keep it going. If link can't DI out of it, you could probably do something, even if falcons can't recover fast enough.

...

And for the final hit on Link in the jiggly/falcon combo... Falcon certainly has enough time to get down there, he stands around long enough, but the question is if you can change it so that falcon could actually reach link under the ship. I think it could be done. You might have to change link's final fall to have him angle more towards the middle of the ship, or something.

The video already is, by your account, capable of being DI'd out of, so its fine if you control link some more.

But I completely understand if you don't want to go through that effort.

...

Can't a link team do a chain throw just as well as the mario brothers?

...

As for the Zelda series, I've played a few of them, but only ever liked three of them enough to acually beat them. I don't really consider myself a fan, but I definetly have fun with Link in SSB, despite his mostly crappy recovery time and jump.

...

Anyway, these are as entertaining as always! Keep up the good work!

ant-d · Jul 24, 2006

You can't DI throws and I think Falcon's Up+B has the same properties of a throw. So I think you cannot DI.

What I meant is, Falcon cannot get that far left to hit Link. I tried changing the angle but it isn't possible to get that much of an angle so that Falcon can reach him.

Oh, and every move (with the exception of unconventional moves) can be DI'd ''out of''. So if the opponent DI's properly there are no guranteed combos really. Again, there are a few things such as Fox's one hit up-air which can combo 4 times... no matter how good the DI is.

EDIT:
Falcon Combo Dive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4tvEP47A-E

You mean something like this?

I like Link in this game. I just read your edited post. Link's throw-to-throw thing doesn't look good.. i just tried it out.

Oh, random tip: Remember to DI into the wall/ledge when shine spiked too, aswell as when hit with any other move! (even when facing the opposite way, you can still DI into the wall if close enough)...

Haze01 · Jul 24, 2006

ant-d said:
EDIT:
Falcon Combo Dive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4tvEP47A-E

You mean something like this?

Oh yeah! That was exactly what I was hoping to see! It's great to see my ideas come through in a vid!

ant-d said:
I like Link in this game. I just read your edited post. Link's throw-to-throw thing doesn't look good.. i just tried it out.

Ah, too bad. No biggie.

ant-d said:
Oh, random tip: Remember to DI into the wall/ledge when shine spiked too, aswell as when hit with any other move! (even when facing the opposite way, you can still DI into the wall if close enough)...

I don't really understand what you mean by this. Could you make some quick videos to compare what happens with and without? Your other video about DI made some sense, with one character sliding through to the other side of the attacking character. Isn't blocking better than taking the hit, though?
Would doing it save Link from this death:
Link at 0% or higher, standing right on the inner ledge of a tower in the pokemon stage, Fox d-smash, Link bounces between the towers and doesn't recover soon enough to get back.

[EDIT] I found your ledge DI videos on YouTube. Wow. That is very interesting. How is it done? Do you need super reflexes to do it? Or do you just hold a direction while anticipating the edgeguard attack?

[EDIT 2] Something I heard of, but was always unable to do, is with two Luigi's. Standing a certain distance apart, they can continually move upwards through the air by hitting eachother with just the tip of their up-Bs. I'd like to see that sometime.

rokimomi · Jul 24, 2006

The luigi "ladder" mentioned in your 2nd edit is only possible in melee.

SPIKY502 · Jul 24, 2006

cool videos

Haze01 · Jul 24, 2006

Oh. I guess another confused Melee fan posted it here, then. That happens a lot.

ant-d · Jul 25, 2006

Haze01 said:
[EDIT] I found your ledge DI videos on YouTube. Wow. That is very interesting. How is it done? Do you need super reflexes to do it? Or do you just hold a direction while anticipating the edgeguard attack?

There's a lot of talk about DI in the "Isai and Japanese video" thread. Infact, all the explanations can be found there... towards the end.
Read those explanations before reading the text below:

It doesn't require super reflexes at all. Well, you have a total of 12 frames (usually) when you are hit by a single hit move to DI. This means, if perfect, you can DI 6 times. Ok, so knock one of these frames off already, simply because the first frame is as soon as you are hit. (I cant imagine anyone getting this frame, even in my vids i purposely miss this)
Now you have 5 'chances' to DI in total. Again, hitting ALL these frames is very hard to do.
Each of these frames act as a pair. This means that the frames are like this: 1-2 3-4 5-6
Hitting both of a pair equals more distance, therefore better DI. So the key is speed (of course).
In my opinion, I would say Excellent DI is hitting 4 frames (I think this is the best a human could ever do in real time). Very good DI, 3. Good, 2. Poor, 1. Remember this is for single hit attacks. Also remember that sometimes 1 frame of DI is enough to escape the move. EG Fox's one hit up-air. My DI is normally 3.
Multihit attacks are different. There's more time to DI. Also you are given many different directions in which to DI... If you are interested in knowing about multihit DI too then just say. You probably are not

Or just play me online or someone else with good DI.

I've pulled off all those DI techniques in real matches. However, it is not easy to do the DI where you fly towards the stage consistently.

I have vids showing what I explained. I wont be uploading them to streaming video sites though. You need to slow down the speed of the video to properly see the DI.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=7B64E5A263783407
^Falcon F-smash on Pika
Falcon forward smashes Pika. Pika DI's into and past him into the wall.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=ACC9B78653F1CE93
^Falcon U-smash on Pika
Falcon up smashes Pika at 200+%. Pika DI's into the wall.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=EB5324676D0BD421
^Surviving a shine spike attempt
The Fox's shine eachother multiple times. They each DI into the ledge to avoid falling too far down.

Team Combo 0%-100% Fox and Pika Team:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb8sPuuoR2w

Kirby and Luigi 0% death Combo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfZYKlM72-g

Link and Ness Combo (way harder than it looks)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpPQGkeVRn0

Added Extravagant Long Team Combos to main page

Haze01 · Jul 25, 2006

Wow. I read all the DI posts. I'm pretty sure I understand it now.

I now understand why some people were able to get out of my combo starters and multihit attacks. It really screwed with my mind when it happened for the first time online. Now I know how to do it myself.

As for the edgeguard reversal DI, that seems very difficult to do.

If you were in the position where you are out of recovery jumps and know that you'll either grab the ledge or get hit by a smash - in real-time, what would you do? Mash the joystick towards the ledge? Like right-right-right? Or try to do the whole up-up-up/right-right? If you could only get in say two DI inputs, would it be better for it to be the up-up or the right-right?

...

As for the new videos. I had to say I was a bit disappointed with your first showing of team combos. I mean, you had three guys doing what they can to kill ONE guy who was already over 100%. These new ones are exactly what I had in mind when I saw the other post that said "team combo".

Fun, inventive, extravagant, long combos, using the characters' unique moves. Thanks a lot for making those! Thanks for giving Link some more cool perfectly timed stuff to do! The Kirby one was definitely the most fun!

Thino · Jul 25, 2006

Haze01 said:
Wow. I read all the DI posts. I'm pretty sure I understand it now.

I now understand why some people were able to get out of my combo starters and multihit attacks. It really screwed with my mind when it happened for the first time online. Now I know how to do it myself.

As for the edgeguard reversal DI, that seems very difficult to do.

If you were in the position where you are out of recovery jumps and know that you'll either grab the ledge or get hit by a smash - in real-time, what would you do? Mash the joystick towards the ledge? Like right-right-right? Or try to do the whole up-up-up/right-right? If you could only get in say two DI inputs, would it be better for it to be the up-up or the right-right?

what "up"? lets say you're being fsmashed on the left ledge , you have to DI Down-Right or Right only , so Right-Right would be better

Moocow007 · Jul 25, 2006

I reverse edgeguard DI pretty often now, it's real easy once you get used to it and some people freak out because you go the wrong way from a down smash or something. I just kinda mash it toward the wall and up most of the time.

ant-d · Jul 25, 2006

Haze01:
Aim your recovery move so that you sweetspot the ledge. Aim for the ledge not for the stage. Then after your recovery; mash according to your position to the ledge. In ths situation you would get more than 2 Inputs. You have to be fast with edgeguarding, you need to hit the pairs of frames. If you can't think in that situation then mash towards the stage. To be good at this type of DI you need aim for the ledge.

Mastahwolf:
Only DI Down-Right if you are above and left of the ledge... Or if you are at dreamland and want to fly straight-up. The best point to hit is the top tip of the ledge, this way you have the possibility of flying over it.

Moocow007:
I can do it pretty often too. It's just hard to explain to others. Yeah, it's Up+towards DI.

Oh and there's a place in Hyrule where its hard to die if you DI properly. You can survive til about 250% with Pika.

Thino · Jul 26, 2006

ant-d said:
Only DI Down-Right if you are above and left of the ledge... Or if you are at dreamland and want to fly straight-up. The best point to hit is the top tip of the ledge, this way you have the possibility of flying over it.
.

yea i was thinking about dreamland , otherwise is it always Up+Toward DI?

ant-d · Jul 26, 2006

Depends where you are... If you are above the ledge then going farther up wont hit the ledge. So it is always the direction towards the upper part of the ledge. Just be sure to hit the ledge.
All characters move about the same while they are DI'ing. EG. Both DK and Kirby can escape Samus' up+B with the same amount of input. So size doesn't matter in this example.

Haze01 · Jul 26, 2006

I played about four hours of smash with a friend yesterday. Even though I had the idea in my head, it would slip from my mind every time the opportunity to ledge DI came up. I did try it to escape from Samus' Up-B, but I don't think I got it to work.

Well, this has gotten somewhat off-topic. Thanks for helping me out. Just need to remember, mash the direction of the ledge corner.

ant-d · Jul 26, 2006

You should try to DI every time you are hit. Then you wont forget.

Thino · Jul 27, 2006

so just DI toward the ledge corner ... mmh
its day 2 for me practicing DI and I have the same problem as Haze01: I'm not used to yet , plus I can only play with cpu right now, i'll really practice it online when i'm back home on August
...but I did escape from a Samus UpB once yesterday by DI'ing down it was with kirby :cool:

ThundaSnake · Aug 5, 2006

It looks like you had a lot of fun making these videos. They're very entertaining. Me gusta. =)

walugi · Aug 5, 2006

antd: <3

Thanks alot for the quality video's antd!

ant-d · Aug 9, 2006

BtP WR Record(s) Broken!

Ok, my next project is the difficult task of breaking the current World Record times for BtP.

I broke Yoshi's WR today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrvZLwisdgM

Current WR = 16"37 (to my knowledge in the GFAQs BtP/BtT Topic)

My Time = 16"35

I take my hat off to the holders of the BtP WR's. It's very hard to break these records, at times they are frame perfect.

rokimomi · Aug 10, 2006

Does using fair with yoshi improve his distance at all?

ant-d · Aug 10, 2006

It changes the angle of the jump. It allows Yoshi to travel more in a straight line.

Edit:- It doesn't improve verticle distance. It's good for getting Yoshi to 'sweet-spot' the ledge.

Thino · Aug 10, 2006

there's some thing like that with Ness too , right?

ant-d · Aug 10, 2006

Yeah. Many characters can do it. It is just doing a move which effects the characters movement in the air,

Thino · Aug 10, 2006

really? it just seems more obvious with Ness and Yoshi...

andrewg · Aug 10, 2006

can someone post some videos of the world record btt times for fox, yoshi, samus, and anyone else they can find. i cant seem to find any of those videos anywhere.

diskette · Aug 13, 2006

HEY I WANNA KNOW, IF IT'S POSSIBLE TO DOWNLOAD THOSE VIDEOS, çause it's just on YOUTUBE....

rokimomi · Aug 13, 2006

^ if you use the browser called firefox, theres an extention called video downloader or something that lets you download youtube and google video onto your harddrive.

snes101 · Aug 14, 2006

Or there's www.keepvid.com.

After using KeepVid, just use CinemaForge to convert to AVI or WMV.

antd's Tool Assisted Videos - Super Falcon! Ultimate-Cancel Combo

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