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Another set of proof why Ness is coming back!

Noshiee

Smash Ace
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Aug 6, 2007
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Viva Mexico Cabrones!
(Srry for the double post, but the edit didnt appeared O_O!)

looking at todays update picture of Lucas with Mario and Sandbag, could be what we think is Lucas Bair actually his Fair, I could be wrong, I just though about after looking at Lucas position in the screenshot.
 

Kirby King

Master Lameoid
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Being a good little conformist
I don't think it changes anything, because the first post doesn't prove anything. That copyright text is exactly what's on the Dojo right now, and the Dojo copyright text has been updated as characters have been revealed (e.g. SEGA wasn't listed until Sonic was revealed). So I don't think the evidence supports Ness' inclusion, because there must be something on the Dojo (whether it's Lucas or something else) that warrants the mentioning of all those entities.
 

Superninjabreadman

Smash Lord
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Sheik Slaying.
Nice point. ness was fun in Melee. I hope he comes back. thought anything from Mother 1 & 2 could show up. Mr.Saturn, Trophies, ect.

Im happy having lucas. and I want claus over ness. but I still wouldent mind having him. alot of other Franchises are getting 3 reps.

Wow could you be in denial more?

Ness is gone. get over it.

Christ.
1. Prove it

2. Translators = Suck.
 

Zoo-bellocks

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
119
Oh give up the translation excuse already. It's been proved many times that it is completely accurate.

This thread=ultimate example of grasping at straws.
 

Intercept

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
215
You realize they said until now about Handicaps and Combos too right? So they're cut.

Also, I like how we know so much about Lucas, and we've seen like 2 1/2 B moves are the same is all. Their stats may even be different. Yet everyone who thinks Ness is gone uses the fact that they are similar (Although their A moves, grab, and their B moves are only being similar not even the same) and the "until now" thing, though I disproved in the first line.

Face it, it makes more sense for Ness to be in.
 

finalark

SNORLAX
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
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Tucson, Arizona
As long as there are fools who can't accept the truth, then yes.

Besides, its the only way to really prove that he's gone.
 

SonicMario

Smash Master
Joined
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Mushroom Square
The worse thing about Ness no longer being playable is that in the future of these boards. People who have Brawl as their 1st Smash game. Will have someone mention Ness and he/she will say "Who is Ness? There is only the Lucas kid isn't it?". And all the former Ness users will shed a small tear mentally or even physically.
 

Flaming_Wuzzle

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
64
Oh give up the translation excuse already. It's been proved many times that it is completely accurate.
No one's saying the translation isn't accurate. It's just that it's not accurate enough due to the inadequacies of the English language. "Up until now" has a slightly different meaning (one that can be taken to imply Ness isn't in Brawl) than the corresponding phrase used on the Japanese Dojo (which only states he was in the previous two games and makes no mention of his status in Brawl).

It's just one of the many problems that come up when translating from one language to another. Sometimes exact meanings aren't preserved during the process.
 

Meta_Sonic64

Smash Master
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Baton Rouge, LA
Why do people find the smallest detail as proof that a character is coming back? It clearly means nothing. As people before have posted that could very well be for Mr. Saturn, ATs, stickers, and normal trophies.
 

Regiwi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
227
Probably been said but wasn't Onett playable? If so, couldn't it be that?
 

The Kirby Kong

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 7, 2002
Messages
350
No one's saying the translation isn't accurate. It's just that it's not accurate enough due to the inadequacies of the English language. "Up until now" has a slightly different meaning (one that can be taken to imply Ness isn't in Brawl) than the corresponding phrase used on the Japanese Dojo (which only states he was in the previous two games and makes no mention of his status in Brawl).

It's just one of the many problems that come up when translating from one language to another. Sometimes exact meanings aren't preserved during the process.
Good effort.

But you should know "up until now" in english doesn't automatically mean that it doesnt persist. People somehow just assume that, even though nowhere it's implied.
 

The Kirby Kong

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
350
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=112542

Seriously guys, he's gone.

Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now,

Ness appeared until now

Come on, Ness was one of my Melee mains and I'm not going insane and putting myself in denial.

The sun has appeared in the sky up until now.

Are you gonna tell me that my sentence deconfirmed the sun coming up tomorrow?
 

EPX2

Smash Ace
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Messages
557
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=112542

Seriously guys, he's gone.

Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now,

Ness appeared until now

Come on, Ness was one of my Melee mains and I'm not going insane and putting myself in denial.
You're still using that ridiculous reasoning?

So until now, I’ve always made sure to include(d) handicaps in each game in the series.

So until now, I've include(d) handicaps

Try making an actual point.
 

finalark

SNORLAX
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Tucson, Arizona
How is that ridiculous?

Until now show a change, they changed the series by taking Ness out and they hanged the handicaps system.

Anyway, it's not worth fighting over. I've always found the "Until now in the handicap" update to be completely unrelated anyway...
 

Flaming_Wuzzle

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
64
How is that ridiculous?

Until now show a change, they changed the series by taking Ness out and they hanged the handicaps system.

Anyway, it's not worth fighting over. I've always found the "Until now in the handicap" update to be completely unrelated anyway...
It's ridiculous because, using your logic that "up until now" means Ness is out, "up until now" means that whatever is being talked about is being removed entirely. Not just changed like the counterargument for the Handicaps update is usually, but completely removed from the game. So, carrying that line of thought over, the appearance of "up until now" in the Handicaps update should mean handicaps are taken out.

The problem is that they weren't taken out.
 

EPX2

Smash Ace
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Messages
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"Until now" doesn't show any changes, it simply states the obvious. "Up until now, Ness has been in the SSB series" = Ness has been in all past SSB games. "Up until now, handicaps have been in the SSB series" = handicaps have been in all past SSB games. That's it - it means nothing more than exactly what it says.
 

LavisFiend

Smash Lord
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Alexandria, Louisiana
You know, it dosen't HAVE to be Ness....

Paula was just as important (if not, MORE important) then Ness was.

Ness has a high chance of being replaced by her. Big time. Doubters be burned with the flames of discontent!
 

Leatherface

Smash Cadet
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Jan 12, 2008
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29
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Hell
There are plenty of videos of the Brawl gameplay but check out the title screen:

Characters: Nintendo / HAL Laboratory, Inc. / Pokemon / Creatures Inc. / GAME FREAK inc / Shigesato Itoi / APE inc. / INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS / Konami Digital Entertainment Co., LTD / SEGA

Note that Snake is not playable but Konami is listed there.
Here's my point. Shigesato Itoi designed the characters for Mother 1 2 and 3. Fine, his name is there and Creatures Inc. made Mother 3. But, note, also on the list is APE Inc.
APE Inc. is the company that created Mother 1 and Mother 2. They were renamed to Creatures Inc. before Mother 3. This is the copyright information for the playable characters. If Lucas replaces Ness, there'd be no reason for APE Inc to appear since Shigesato Itoi and Creatures Inc are the two copyright owners.
In conclusion, APE Inc. is there because a character from Mother 1 and/or Mother 2 is playable....NESS!

Smash64 and Smash Melee have the same layout (Title, Game Developers, Characters)
If that were true that it copyright for items we should have seen RARE for Goldeneye's Proximity Mine. It specifically says CHARACTERS

This is not my wishful thinking. I never really enjoyed playing with Ness in Melee and thought he had too many flaws to use. This was just an observation of mine that I thought I should share.
With Crappy Proof like those, i sure hope you won't be coming back :ohwell:
 

Puddin Master

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
189
I bet this has been pointed out before, APE Inc made M1 and M2, why does it say "Creature's Inc" on SSB's title screen? Crap, I hope Ness will return.
 

Meta_Sonic64

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"Until now" doesn't show any changes, it simply states the obvious. "Up until now, Ness has been in the SSB series" = Ness has been in all past SSB games. "Up until now, handicaps have been in the SSB series" = handicaps have been in all past SSB games. That's it - it means nothing more than exactly what it says.
Actually, that's wrong. Every update that used "Up Until Now" indicated change in Brawl. Not having Ness as apart of the roster is a change, therefore "Up Until Now" is a valid point against him, but saying it's the only thing that deconfirms him is false.
 

shinhed-echi

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ATs are still Characters. Even though they're "Characters who couldn't quite make it to playable".

Characters are still characters, even if they appear in the background only..
 

Flaming_Wuzzle

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
64
Actually, that's wrong..
Well, no, he's right, "up until now", on its own, describes the situation in the previous two Smash games. It COULD potentially show a change, but it doesn't do so automatically.

Take, for example, handicaps:
So until now, I’ve always made sure to include handicaps in each game in the series.
He doesn't say anything in that sentence (and ONLY that sentence, you can't say we were meant to look at the entire update to figure out the meaning of it) that directly hints toward a new system, just that the concept of handicaps is returning. He could have just as easily ended that sentence with ", and they are returning in this game.", then went on to explain the handicap system, the same way it was in 64/Melee.

The thing is, though, the Lucas/Ness situation and the handicap situation are a bit different from each other. With the handicaps, we were actually told the system had changed, and every detail was laid out. With Lucas/Ness, however, we've only been told Ness was in the previous two games, and nothing else, which gives us incomplete evidence. Sakurai could either introduce Ness at a later date, or, going by the prevailing meaning of "up until now" around here, deconfirm him by players getting the "You have unlocked every character!" notice with Ness not on the roster, among other methods.
 

EPX2

Smash Ace
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Messages
557
Actually, that's wrong. Every update that used "Up Until Now" indicated change in Brawl. Not having Ness as apart of the roster is a change, therefore "Up Until Now" is a valid point against him, but saying it's the only thing that deconfirms him is false.
No, every update that included the phrase "(up) until now" indicated something that was present in the previous SSB games. Read the topic I linked to, I addressed and debunked your very "point" several times.

Well, no, he's right, "up until now", on its own, describes the situation in the previous two Smash games. It COULD potentially show a change, but it doesn't do so automatically.

Take, for example, handicaps:

He doesn't say anything in that sentence (and ONLY that sentence, you can't say we were meant to look at the entire update to figure out the meaning of it) that directly hints toward a new system, just that the concept of handicaps is returning. He could have just as easily ended that sentence with ", and they are returning in this game.", then went on to explain the handicap system, the same way it was in 64/Melee.

The thing is, though, the Lucas/Ness situation and the handicap situation are a bit different from each other. With the handicaps, we were actually told the system had changed, and every detail was laid out. With Lucas/Ness, however, we've only been told Ness was in the previous two games, and nothing else, which gives us incomplete evidence. Sakurai could either introduce Ness at a later date, or, going by the prevailing meaning of "up until now" around here, deconfirm him by players getting the "You have unlocked every character!" notice with Ness not on the roster, among other methods.
Thank goodness, someone who actually gets it.
 

Super Smash Master

Smash Lord
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
1,298
Onett is in the game. Onett is from Mother 2 which is created by Ape. Logicfail.

Honestly people, Ness is cut. Get over it. Lucas took all his moves. If Ness was in, Lucas would've had an original moveset. It makes no sense to give an already existing characters moves to a character if the original character is planned to be in the game.
 

Meta_Sonic64

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Baton Rouge, LA
No, every update that included the phrase "(up) until now" indicated something that was present in the previous SSB games. Read the topic I linked to, I addressed and debunked your very "point" several times.



Thank goodness, someone who actually gets it.
We all get it. Either way, like it or not, Ness's chances are at the lowest as of now. Maybe "Up Until Now" doesn't prove it, but there's plenty of evidence against Ness. This crap on the first page of this thread doesn't increase his chances either.
 
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