Analyzing the Nostalgia Effect

[Dre89]

I disagree. Most of the complaints towards gen 5 mons easily applies to gen 1. Actually, I think a lot of gen 1 mons look pretty stupid its just that we're so used to seeing them and have good memories associated with them. I believe in the idea that if gen 1 and gen 5 were reversed people would love gen 5 mons and hate gen 1.

The gen1 pokemon were mostly based off animals and were much simpler in design. Gen5 pokemon are overdesigned. Look at Emboar for example. His black and gold markings are way too overdone to appear natural. Too much stuff in gen5 just looks unnatural.

 

[Teran]

Morrowind is awesome. So much better than Oblivion (Although I do like some elements of Skyrim better).


Really? I like these ones quite a bit.

Metroid Prime (2002)
Portal (2007)
Team Fortress 2 (2007)
Uncharted (2007)

Oh and, what the hell, I'll toss Kingdom Hearts (2002) in there, since it came out after Halo. I might not be a huge fan of the games, but the music is nice.

You liking those themes doesn't make them iconic.

Play the Mario or Zelda theme to most people and they'll recognise it, same with Halo.

That's not the case with those games.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

With the legacy Metroid Prime created, I'm pretty sure most would recognize its theme at least. Those other ones though, yeah.

 

[MuraRengan]

Metroid Prime is seriously underrated.

 

[Teran]

With the legacy Metroid Prime created, I'm pretty sure most would recognize its theme at least. Those other ones though, yeah.

Metroid Prime was on GC which limited its exposure to juat avid gamers/Nintendo fans, and since GC finished last in the last console wars, you'll find that it's not something that transcends.

Metroid Prime was amazing, but talk to your average teenager or person, play some tracks to them. They'd probably recognise Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, Halo, but I don't think they'd recognise Metroid Prime's theme.

I think you're confusing "revered among nerds" with "breaking through the confines of its own demographic with its exposure". People who've never played Mario or Zelda still know the music.

 

[finalark]

The gen1 pokemon were mostly based off animals and were much simpler in design. Gen5 pokemon are overdesigned. Look at Emboar for example. His black and gold markings are way too overdone to appear natural. Too much stuff in gen5 just looks unnatural.

In this case it comes down to personal taste. I don't mind the way that gen 5 looks and I find the simplicity of gen 1 boring.

Also, I think that gen 1 and gen 5 were roughly even on Pokemon based on objects.

EDIT: The one thing I disagree with in gen 5 is that it just has waaaaaay too many event pokemon.

 

[Dre89]

Finalark- The general community preferred gen1 pokemon from what I gather. I wouldn't just base it on my personal preference.

Teran- Zelda's music isn't on the same level of iconicness as Mario's. Zelda's music wouldn't really be known outside of the gaming community, whereas secondary themes such as the underground theme in Mario games are known by non-gamers.

 

[Teran]

Zelda's theme is known by a surprising number of people. Also most people know Zelda, they just think Link is called Zelda.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Generation one owns the single worst Pokemon of all time in terms of design.

 

[finalark]

Finalark- The general community preferred gen1 pokemon from what I gather. I wouldn't just base it on my personal preference.

I disagree. I think the gen 1 preference is mostly nostalgia.

Plus gen 1 had **** like this in it.

And **** like this too.

And anyone who thinks gen 1 was the pinnacle of originality needs to remember the seal named seel and the fact that two of the mons were the game's logo with a face drawn on, among other things.

 

[Teran]

I will say every gen had its equal share of good and bad Pokémon designs, but the art style did shift significantly from Gen III onwards to become more clean and anime/cartoonish/fantasy, which pleases some, and doesn't please others.

A good chunk of my favourite Pokémon are Gen I and II, but I'm not hte kind of person to hate later gen Pokémon. I am not a fan of the general art style shift, but there are still a whole load of awesome designs in there. Let's face it, we all react positively to different things so we can't say that any gen has inherently "better" designs. That's not how art works.

Things like battle mechanics etc are objective, artistic design and direction is not. It's like saying Wind Waker's art style is objectively better than Twilight Princess'. That just doesn't work.

 

[Dre89]

But I'm not going off my own personal preferences. People can have preferences, but saying things are subjective doesn't change the fact gen1's pokemon were received better by the majority of the community than gen5's.

I prefer Phantom Hourglass over OoT but I'd still say OoT is a better game.

 

[Teran]

OoT is overrated.

And Gen I's Pokémon are better received because I imagine people react to that artstyle best.

 

[Dre89]

I think it's overrated too but I still think it's a good game and is better than PH. I don't base my opinions of good games on what I enjoy personally.

As for art style, they were also portrayed in the anime in a different (more childish style style and they were liked there as well).

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I've expressed this before elsewhere I believe, but generation three is my favorite largely because the style has a lot of unity and cohesion. When looking at the list of all Pokemon, you can kind of see what ones are from the third generation just by the way they are designed. You can do this with fourth and fifth, but simply because you can tell by the level of random diversity the designs have, the more random and wild it is, the more likely it is in the fifth generation, and if it is a bit more modest with that, its in fourth. The first and second are plain, the second taking the "based off animals" thing to an extra level, so there is unity in that. With the fourth and fifth, as said, you get its unity from its lack thereof. (In other words, identify them by its degree of disorder).

Can't really explain what I mean by all of that very well, it could just be subjective nonsense. Just what I think of when I look at all of the Pokemon as a whole.

 

[DarkSouls]

You liking those themes doesn't make them iconic.

Play the Mario or Zelda theme to most people and they'll recognise it, same with Halo.

That's not the case with those games.

I assumed by "iconic" you were just talking about themes that are distinctive and had essentially become associated with the series so that they were repeated and revisited again and again, like the Metroid theme or the Elder Scrolls theme. Metroid Prime falls under that metric, since its theme is very distinctive and was revisited in the Prime boss battle, Prime 2's main theme, and the Prime 2 final boss (Not sure if appears in Prime 3).

I wasn't thinking of pure reputation to random people on the street, since that's more a metric of the game's popularity than the theme's quality; more people remember the Pac-Man theme than Zelda's theme or the Halo theme, but that's because a lot more people played Pac-Man.

Even ignoring that...

"Still Alive" is probably more famous than the Zelda theme (And maybe the Halo theme), primarily because it's extremely catchy and was repeated ad nauseum as a meme along with everything else in Portal.

The Uncharted series is amazingly popular, with over 5 million units sold for Uncharted 2. Nate's theme has become so popular that when Playstation All-Stars had its E3 reveal trailer for him start with his theme, people assumed that the PSAS:BR trailer had ended and Sony was announcing a new Uncharted game. If this theme is "iconic", it's iconic for the same reasons Halo was; it's a popular game with a really awesome theme.

Team Fortress 2 is the most popular online FPS (Yes, beating Counter Strike). That theme plays at the title screen, and you'll be hearing it a LOT. It's also very distinctive and catchy.

Of course, none of them are as "iconic" as the Mario theme (Because Mario is essentially "Mr. Video Game")... But I can guarantee that more people probably know "Still Alive" than the Zelda theme, if only because people wouldn't shut up about it.

Zelda's theme is known by a surprising number of people. Also most people know Zelda, they just think Link is called Zelda.

That's a Nintendo-centric way of thinking. Most people really don't know the Zelda series, or any game series outside of extremely popular contemporary examples (Modern Warfare, Angry Birds) or old legends (Tetris, Pac-Man, Mario, Sonic).

 

[Luco]

Zelda's theme is known by a surprising number of people. Also most people know Zelda, they just think Link is called Zelda.

I remember the days when I thought that.

But Teran is correct here and it's backed up by loads of statistics. The gaming community is much larger today than it ever was. Over 90% of homes in first world countries have some sort of gaming console in them. Again, over 90% of boys play and around 50% of girls play. The average gamer age is around... I think it's 36 now... and younger generations prefer co-op or multiplayer experiences.

Half of that wasn't even relevant but... Meh.

But look, i'm part of that younger generation. I can tell you that my gen definitely knows about zelda and it's theme. It's pretty nuts.

 

[Teran]

I think it's overrated too but I still think it's a good game and is better than PH. I don't base my opinions of good games on what I enjoy personally.

As for art style, they were also portrayed in the anime in a different (more childish style style and they were liked there as well).

The anime is totally nostalgia tinted when it comes to opinions, but the early seasons did have golden moments. Also Eric Stuart voiced James, that's reason enough to prefer early episodes.

(I still like the show and the new VAs are good, but one change I can't get over is Eric Stuart's James )

I assumed by "iconic" you were just talking about themes that are distinctive and had essentially become associated with the series so that they were repeated and revisited again and again, like the Metroid theme or the Elder Scrolls theme. Metroid Prime falls under that metric, since its theme is very distinctive and was revisited in the Prime boss battle, Prime 2's main theme, and the Prime 2 final boss (Not sure if appears in Prime 3).

Phoenix Wright's "Cornered" theme from/ Ace Attorney cames back in the final case of the 3rd installment to finish off the trilogy. It gave me a massive rush (all of Phoenix Wright's music is amazing), but that doesn't make it iconic. It is simply a great bit of music that fans who stuck with the series will respond to, like in MP.

I wasn't thinking of pure reputation to random people on the street, since that's more a metric of the game's popularity than the theme's quality; more people remember the Pac-Man theme than Zelda's theme or the Halo theme, but that's because a lot more people played Pac-Man.

I dunno about that, and even so, Pac-man isn't a low quality game. It was a great piece of software that was born out of the limitations of the time. Popularity OUTSIDE your realm can often be a great sign of quality. Being able to transcend the confines of your medium is what the best games usually manage doing.

"Still Alive" is probably more famous than the Zelda theme (And maybe the Halo theme), primarily because it's extremely catchy and was repeated ad nauseum as a meme along with everything else in Portal.

I don't even know that song. No really I'm being honest. Probably something to do with the fact that internet memes are for losers.

The Uncharted series is amazingly popular, with over 5 million units sold for Uncharted 2. Nate's theme has become so popular that when Playstation All-Stars had its E3 reveal trailer for him start with his theme, people assumed that the PSAS:BR trailer had ended and Sony was announcing a new Uncharted game. If this theme is "iconic", it's iconic for the same reasons Halo was; it's a popular game with a really awesome theme.

Stuff I said before will apply to this.

Team Fortress 2 is the most popular online FPS (Yes, beating Counter Strike). That theme plays at the title screen, and you'll be hearing it a LOT. It's also very distinctive and catchy.Of course, none of them are as "iconic" as the Mario theme (Because Mario is essentially "Mr. Video Game")... But I can guarantee that more people probably know "Still Alive" than the Zelda theme, if only because people wouldn't shut up about it.

Trust me the only people who know Still Alive are nerds, and all nerds know the Zelda theme. Outside of nerdland a lot of people also know the Zelda theme, like my 40 year old piano teacher, so yeah, I wouldn't be so sure about that.

That's a Nintendo-centric way of thinking. Most people really don't know the Zelda series, or any game series outside of extremely popular contemporary examples (Modern Warfare, Angry Birds) or old legends (Tetris, Pac-Man, Mario, Sonic).

Everyone knows Nintendo, if only to make fun of it being GAY KIDS' GAMES they still know Nintendo.

Most noobcakes who don't know consoles are will refer to them as "a Nintendo" or some ****, so saying that I'm streamlined into Nintendo-centric thinking is kinda dumb. I mean yeah, I play a lot Nintendo, but let's not forget that they had the strongest part in moulding the landscape of console gaming we have today, for better or for worse.

I mean if we even stick to music that grips a large number of players for its catchiness (and not because of gay memes), we still haven't had as many as we used to have. The irony is in the information age, all these thigs have a much greater chance of becoming a big thing but eh, big memorable themes have been very few and far between. :/

 

[ndayday]

The gen1 pokemon were mostly based off animals and were much simpler in design. Gen5 pokemon are overdesigned. Look at Emboar for example. His black and gold markings are way too overdone to appear natural. Too much stuff in gen5 just looks unnatural.

His gold markings are there because that whole line is supposed to look Chinese in design. I had to look this next bit up, but Journey to the West is probably its inspiration along with Infernape's.

The unnatural Pokemon bit can go anywhere, because where do you draw the line for what's natural? Is Magnemite natural? It's a magnet with an eye. Is Golem natural? It's a golem, an animated rock. Ditto is unnatural in design too, it's literally a blob of stuff. I went through and picked out Pokemon in Gen 1 and 5 that are either man-made or an "animated" object just for the sake of comparison:

Gen 1: Magnemite, Magneton, Grimer, Muk, Voltorb, Electrode, Exeggcute, Koffing, Weezing, Ditto, Mewtwo, Geodude, Graveler, Golem (14/151) ~9%

Gen 5: Munna, Musharna, Roggenrola, Boldore, Gigalith, Darumaka, Trubbish, Garbodor, Vanillite, Vanillish, Vaniilluxe, Kling, Klang, Klingklang, Golett, Golurk, Litwick, Lampent, Chandelure, Genesect (20/154) ~13%

And that's not too bad, there's not even 2x the amount of unnatural Pokemon in Gen 5. We could do this by looking at every single Pokemon and its design too.

Like Teran said the shift is there in art style and what is aesthetically pleasing, but really, as far as unnatural Pokemon go, it's stayed much the same.

Metroid Prime was on GC which limited its exposure to juat avid gamers/Nintendo fans, and since GC finished last in the last console wars, you'll find that it's not something that transcends.

Metroid Prime was amazing, but talk to your average teenager or person, play some tracks to them. They'd probably recognise Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, Halo, but I don't think they'd recognise Metroid Prime's theme.

I think you're confusing "revered among nerds" with "breaking through the confines of its own demographic with its exposure". People who've never played Mario or Zelda still know the music.

Funny story, but for a small video project I needed some creepy ambient music so I immediately thought of Metroid Prime and put some forgettable theme in the video. I specifically tried to find one that didn't have any indication that it was Metroid in it. It was I think one of the Chozo Ruins themes.

After the video was done this one kid asked me if I had ever played Metroid, since he said he recognized the music. It was pretty awesome.

 

[Dre89]

His gold markings are there because that whole line is supposed to look Chinese in design. I had to look this next bit up, but Journey to the West is probably its inspiration along with Infernape's.

He looks like he's wearing a vest and forearm pads. You wouldn't see that kind of thing in the wild.

The unnatural Pokemon bit can go anywhere, because where do you draw the line for what's natural? Is Magnemite natural? It's a magnet with an eye. Is Golem natural? It's a golem, an animated rock. Ditto is unnatural in design too, it's literally a blob of stuff. I went through and picked out Pokemon in Gen 1 and 5 that are either man-made or an "animated" object just for the sake of comparison:

Golem and ditto are definitely natural, I mean golem is a turtle and ditto is DNA. They don't have to be direct imitations of animals to be natural. Golem and ditto looks like the kinds of things that had pokemon hypoethtically existed, would exist prior to humans (ie. they don't look artificial).

Gen 1: Magnemite, Magneton, Grimer, Muk, Voltorb, Electrode, Exeggcute, Koffing, Weezing, Ditto, Mewtwo, Geodude, Graveler, Golem (14/151) ~9%

Exeggcute is meant to be seeds that then evolve into a tree, I don't understand what could be more natural than that. Rocks are natural, in a world of pokemon animated rocks could exist before humanity. Mewtwo actually had a backstory for his artificiality, and would look like a natural creature if he didn't anyway. Ditto and grimer/muk are natural in the sense that in a world of a pokemon it would be conceivable that pokemon like that could develop without humans.

Gen 5: Munna, Musharna, Roggenrola, Boldore, Gigalith, Darumaka, Trubbish, Garbodor, Vanillite, Vanillish, Vaniilluxe, Kling, Klang, Klingklang, Golett, Golurk, Litwick, Lampent, Chandelure, Genesect (20/154) ~13%

I'd remove munna/musharna, the gigalith line,the chandelure line and the genosect line (because there is a backstory to its artificial appearance).

I would add the emboar line and the sandile line though. This list is just pokemon that clearly have artificial concepts attached to them. It doesn't include the ones that are overdetailed, because that is more subjective.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Phoenix Wright's "Cornered" theme from/ Ace Attorney cames back in the final case of the 3rd installment to finish off the trilogy. It gave me a massive rush (all of Phoenix Wright's music is amazing), but that doesn't make it iconic. It is simply a great bit of music that fans who stuck with the series will respond to, like in MP.

It's strange how the music in the original seems so much better than the later additions. I mean wow, that GBA game captures the moods and the tension in each part so well it's awesome.

Also discovered a jazz, orchestra, and remix soundtrack of the songs throughout the series, really good stuff. :D

 

[Teran]

Funny story, but for a small video project I needed some creepy ambient music so I immediately thought of Metroid Prime and put some forgettable theme in the video. I specifically tried to find one that didn't have any indication that it was Metroid in it. It was I think one of the Chozo Ruins themes.

After the video was done this one kid asked me if I had ever played Metroid, since he said he recognized the music. It was pretty awesome.

For anyone who's actually played Metroid Prime the music extremely distinct and unforgettable. The music is a huge part of the atmosphere, and it's kind of like some of Majora's Mask's tracks like Great Bay Temple which is nothing but a bunch of overlapping cells that loop with no real strong melody, yet because of the way it plays and plays and really augments the atmosphere, every time you think of Great Bay Temple, the music hits in your head (like right now x__x)

MP's music was top notch but it eh seems like it didn't have the audience it deserved. What's funny is I also don't really ever feel like humming the MP theme if you know what I mean. I could whistle the Mario theme, hum the Zelda theme, hum the Halo theme, hum and whistle and bunch of stuff from Donkey Kong etc, but iunno Metroid's was different, not one of those easy listening hummable tracks. xD

It's strange how the music in the original seems so much better than the later additions. I mean wow, that GBA game captures the moods and the tension in each part so well it's awesome.

Also discovered a jazz, orchestra, and remix soundtrack of the songs throughout the series, really good stuff. :D

Man is it just me or is the Steel Samurai theme one of the most pretty songs ever? People say it has some stereotypical asian feel, but I really don't think it does, I think it's far more complex than just "typical asian". It obviously got Japanese flair, but it's surprisingly absorbing for a theme that's just meant to be "Japanesey"

 

[finalark]

That's a Nintendo-centric way of thinking. Most people really don't know the Zelda series, or any game series outside of extremely popular contemporary examples (Modern Warfare, Angry Birds) or old legends (Tetris, Pac-Man, Mario, Sonic).

Well most people who play video games know of it. Even if they haven't played a Zelda game the theme being in Smash Bros. and Soul Calibur II certainly helps.

I don't even know that song. No really I'm being honest. Probably something to do with the fact that internet memes are for losers.

Its the ending theme to Portal 1. Which is actually a really clever and intelligently made game sadly squandered by people screaming "THE CAKE IS A LIE" every five seconds.

He looks like he's wearing a vest and forearm pads. You wouldn't see that kind of thing in the wild.

Because you'd totally find a mime, a black woman, magnets and pokeballs in the wild, right?

Exeggcute is meant to be seeds that then evolve into a tree, I don't understand what could be more natural than that. Rocks are natural, in a world of pokemon animated rocks could exist before humanity. Mewtwo actually had a backstory for his artificiality, and would look like a natural creature if he didn't anyway. Ditto and grimer/muk are natural in the sense that in a world of a pokemon it would be conceivable that pokemon like that could develop without humans.

You know, when you get down to it the idea of all pokemon having to look "natural" is kinda dumb. Since they haven't looked entirely natural from the start. You're basically arguing that a rock with arms looks more natural than a monkey on fire.

 

[ndayday]

I think just our ideas of natural might be different, even though it should be pretty obvious what is and what isn't. Pokemon isn't about making plausible animals, it's about making monsters that fit into this universe where people train, battle, raise, and live with Pokemon. They're not going to put a shark in it, instead they'll make something based on a shark but is more like a torpedo, or a mouse that looks like a mouse but shoots electricity. The things are completely fantasized and that's the appeal.

Also this is being nitpicky but the Grimer line could not exist without humans as the pollution humans made basically created them. And Exeggcute are definitely eggs.

 

[Luco]

For anyone who's actually played Metroid Prime the music extremely distinct and unforgettable. The music is a huge part of the atmosphere, and it's kind of like some of Majora's Mask's tracks like Great Bay Temple which is nothing but a bunch of overlapping cells that loop with no real strong melody, yet because of the way it plays and plays and really augments the atmosphere, every time you think of Great Bay Temple, the music hits in your head (like right now x__x)

MP's music was top notch but it eh seems like it didn't have the audience it deserved. What's funny is I also don't really ever feel like humming the MP theme if you know what I mean. I could whistle the Mario theme, hum the Zelda theme, hum the Halo theme, hum and whistle and bunch of stuff from Donkey Kong etc, but iunno Metroid's was different, not one of those easy listening hummable tracks. xD



Man is it just me or is the Steel Samurai theme one of the most pretty songs ever? People say it has some stereotypical asian feel, but I really don't think it does, I think it's far more complex than just "typical asian". It obviously got Japanese flair, but it's surprisingly absorbing for a theme that's just meant to be "Japanesey"

Oh really? I found MP's theme to very very easy to whistle to, in fact it's very fun changing pitch so suddenly with its theme. MP's theme is one of the metroid songs I quite like, which is saying a bit because Teran has a point, metroid's music is more atmospheric in many cases than actually melodic (although Brinstar's theme has always been amazing, even in 8-bit). I like a couple others, namely the 'escape' theme (actually it's meta ridley's battle theme but it plays in other m as you attempt to escape and is similarly used in brawl and Super Metroid. Those are only the ones I know as well), metroid's ending theme and Samus' theme. Others such as Ridley's theme are interesting because they are particularly melodic at times and are quite fun to hum to, even if they aren't my particular favourites. Norfair also fits in this category, although it's borderline favourite.

I went a bit long-winded there but yeah, haha. Anyway I have a lot of fun with gaming music. Fundly enough though, I tend to like themes more when i've played the game. For instance, I didn't like as many of B&W's themes until I played it. Suddenly so many tracks had these amazing, beautiful harmonies that were super stunning and I couldn't stop listening to some of the tracks. others were just plain epic. While there were a couple that were 'meh' tunes, most of the game's soundtrack I enjoyed, a lot.

 

[Teran]

Team Plasma's theme was amazing.

 

[Luco]

I agree 100%. When I was playing, whever the theme started and the lighting flashed across the screen through the shield, I would draw the Z in the air with my finger as it happened. I was so sad when I found the wise man in the cave, it was the last time I got to hear that theme in game. It's sad that Alder's theme doesn't compare anywhere close to N's battle theme. Also, champion theme being used by the train bosses? GRRRRRRR. >.<

 

[Dre89]

Ndayday- Exeggcute are not definitely eggs. The pokedex entries are inconsistent, some say they're eggs, others say they're seeds mistaken for eggs. However, the first entries, the ones closest linked to their original design say that they're not eggs. They also evolve into trees so it makes sense that they're seeds.

 

[ndayday]

But...but Bulbapedia told me so!

edit: so yeah, you're basically right. The Pokedex entries switch from being seeds to being kinda like seeds to being eggs to being seed-like but looking like eggs, lol.

 

[Dre89]

Everyone knows how stupid the pokedex is though.

Honestly we could probably make a thread where you list all the ridiculous pokemon entires.

For example the dex saying that escavalier flies around at high speeds, yet it's not a flying type or has the ability levitate, and it's slower than slowbro.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

It also says that Charizard's flames can melt absolutely anything, which is a no-limit fallacy if I ever saw one.

 

[Teran]

I thought it was enormous glaciers and boulders.

In any case, Charizard deserves better base stats. :/

 

[Dre89]

Yeah charizard is nowhere near as powerful in-game or in brawl as his appearance or the anime suggests.

Then you also have the fact that nidoking has weaker attack than parasect, and only like 2 or 3 more attack than vileplume.

 

[Teran]

1st Gen Pokémon's base stats are awkward, and they only really work within the realms of the first generation or two because they utilise stat exp instead of EVs.

Kinda do resent EVs in that regard. >__>

 

[Dre89]

I don't really find them awkward.

It's a better system than later gens because thanks to the box trick, at least you know that if you verse a pokemon that doesn't give you the kinda stats you're looking for, you can always remedy it by just versing more pokes. Unlike in later gens, where if you verse a pokemon that gives and EV yield you don't want, it's not really reverseable and is actually detrimental to your pokemon.

However even in RBY, when you're training pokemon for stadium cups (outside of Prime Cup and Gym Leader Castle), you have to go about it as you're were using the EV system, because you have a limited amount of levels to work with and can't use the box trick.

 

[finalark]

You know, instead of EVs they could just give us points to put into stats as the mons level.

Just sayin'.

 

[Luco]

You know, instead of EVs they could just give us points to put into stats as the mons level.

Just sayin'.

But a pokemon that has 500 in both attack or special attack and speed is going to wreck like everything else, no?

 

[Falconv1.0]

EV's is a stupid and awful mechanic. If I were making an rpg and someone told me we should add an invisible stat system of any kind affected by what enemies you kill that would be a must for competitive play, I would most likely threaten to strike them with a blunt object.

Then I would stab them for the irony. Or something.

EV's are dumb.

Also Luco what the **** does that have to do with anything. He's saying instead of it being an invisible stat affected by what pokemon you **** up, you get ev's you can actually see each level and you choose what stat they go towards. He did not say "a pokemon should be able to get 400 in both attack and speed". He did not even kinda say that. Feel bad.

 

[Luco]

EV's is a stupid and awful mechanic. If I were making an rpg and someone told me we should add an invisible stat system of any kind affected by what enemies you kill that would be a must for competitive play, I would most likely threaten to strike them with a blunt object.

Then I would stab them for the irony. Or something.

EV's are dumb.

Also Luco what the **** does that have to do with anything. He's saying instead of it being an invisible stat affected by what pokemon you **** up, you get ev's you can actually see each level and you choose what stat they go towards. He did not say "a pokemon should be able to get 400 in both attack and speed". He did not even kinda say that. Feel bad.

Yo bro, calm down. I just misunderstood is all.

I know a game where game mechanics are meant to be kept hidden. I still like it though. Not that it's competitive or anything in any case.

 

[finalark]

I know a game where game mechanics are meant to be kept hidden. I still like it though. Not that it's competitive or anything in any case.

What game might that be?

As for Pokemon, yeah EV's are horrible and I'd much rather just assign points than punch various Pokemon for several hours. I have to agree with Falcon, whoever came up with EV's deserves a swift kick to the balls.