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An Open Letter To The Smash 4 Player

Big-Cat

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I believe that the game and its community has a lot of potential, but I continue to see little innovation in your meta. I wanted to get this off my chest and say my thoughts on why the Smash 4 meta is so lackluster. I'm by no means an authority on the game. You can agree or disagree for all I care.

You don't take risks.
This is mostly aimed at the mid level. A lot of players at this level and below will think the only approaching option in Smash 4 is jump ins, but then you own't do that because it's unsafe on shield. There's a reason why, there's a lot of rewards and spacing options with it, so there naturally has to be a balance with the risk. That aside, it doesn't hurt to take the risk sometimes to toss out a powerful attack as a hard read. It's high risk, high reward. You have to learn how to manage risks and just go “here goes nothing”.

If you don't take risks, we're just going to have 90% of our matches on Smashville STILL and everyone picks Sheik because she's the safest character in the game.

You don't know how to practice.
This isn't quite anyone's fault. In other fighting games, practice is not that hard to set up. Things like random block, working on combos, resets, etc. aren't options we have available in Smash. Smash is very bare bones with its training mode, but you can still practice.

You can study up on how DI works (it's a lot less complex than you think), what is a character's strength and weaknesses, and more. One thing I found extremely helpful was seeing that every character is designed to be proficient in two out of three ranges – close, mid, and long. Exceptions may exist here and there, but this is generally the case. With that in mind, you can try to exploit that hole in their range options. This is where CPU's can be helpful, but their capacity is limited.

You aren't patient.
Without fail, you will see beginners just running in, jumping, and rolling. Walking is seriously neglected and is vital for having control of the situation. Sure, you may not get in quickly and rack up damage, but it's better to wait and get the momentum than to just go all berserker. There may be periods where attacks don't connect at all or you're both just moving around. That's totally fine as both of you are trying to safely get an attack in. Patience is arguably the most important of the fundamentals in a fighting game.

You care more about execution than strategy.
This is human nature really. You gravitate to the flashy stuff sooner than the boring and practical. Things like perfect pivot are very limited in their practical usage. You can get cool combos with them, but the chance of pulling them off at high level is unlikely. It's not about who can do the coolest stuff, it's about who uses their stuff the best.

You fit characters into molds they won't fit in.
Most of the time, I see players trying to play characters the same as they would any other character. Typically, this is rush down. With some characters like Roy or Sheik, that's great, but every character is not going to work that way.

I'll see some players try to be aerial heavy with heavyweights, when it's clear they excel at ground combat. Thankfully, no one in their right mind tries to play an air heavy Mac. I'll see aggressive play of characters that really aren't meant to be played that way like Zelda and Palutena. They're more zoning and turtling than in your face gameplay. You should adapt your playstyle to those characters instead of the other way around if you're intent on playing them.

I'm not exactly anti customs, but I can't help but think that customs give players tunnel vision of what tools a character has. You become more focused on the special than the normals which are used for the bulk of a match. To a certain degree, these customs can be crutch moves such as the infamous case with Kong Cyclone, even if it's manageable.

You play for show, not to win.
Maybe it's the whole talk of eSports and sponsors, and maybe a little bit of Melee's influence, but for the love of God do what you have to win. This is a game, not a show. If you don't need to win using a bunch of rushdown then don't do it. If you need to, go ahead. Don't go for style. If you get style, that's great and is definitely a crowd pleaser, but don't go looking for it.
 
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Teh Sandwich

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sounds like you only watch really bad players. Speak for yourself. Don't address the WHOLE community like this. I'll kick your ass in smash 4 all day son.
 

ぱみゅ

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sounds like you only watch really bad players. Speak for yourself. Don't address the WHOLE community like this. I'll kick your *** in smash 4 all day son.
The average player isn't too far from that base he's talking about.
 

Pink'd

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Yep.

That's it--that's all I have to say. Nothing else needs to be said.

Except maybe

git gud
 

AdaptiveTrigger

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Luckily, I don't think any of this applies to me personally (a lot of these did used to apply to me though). Still, it was a good read.
 

Duplighost

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I have to agree with most of this, but it doesn't apply to all players. Typical players just jump into online battle and just make the entire game a pain to play, and expect to win using plain combos and not practicing any strategies whatsoever. It makes me really discouraged to keep playing at times.
 
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Zorcey

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While your point is a good one, I think you may be preaching to the wrong congregation, so to speak. What you say applies more to newbies and pseudo-competitive For Glory players than anything; few of these players frequent Smashboards, and fewer have any influence in the competitive community. Most of the people here are genuinely trying to get better, and aren't stuck in the bad habits you describe. And the ones that are stuck are probably here for advice on how to get out of them. You'd probably better be off helping these people, rather than making a speech about the problems they most likely know about already.
 

Raijinken

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While your point is a good one, I think you may be preaching to the wrong congregation, so to speak. What you say applies more to newbies and pseudo-competitive For Glory players than anything; few of these players frequent Smashboards, and fewer have any influence in the competitive community. Most of the people here are genuinely trying to get better, and aren't stuck in the bad habits you describe. And the ones that are stuck are probably here for advice on how to get out of them. You'd probably better be off helping these people, rather than making a speech about the problems they most likely know about already.
If they're trying to get better, odds are they're still victims of one or more of the above-mentioned habits.

And unless someone specifically lives in an area with a massive and well-networked Smash community at all skill levels, it's easier to post on what's probably the top knowledge collection source for Smash and just hope someone reads it.
 

erico9001

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You don't take risks.
This is mostly aimed at the mid level. A lot of players at this level and below will think the only approaching option in Smash 4 is jump ins, but then you own't do that because it's unsafe on shield. There's a reason why, there's a lot of rewards and spacing options with it, so there naturally has to be a balance with the risk. That aside, it doesn't hurt to take the risk sometimes to toss out a powerful attack as a hard read. It's high risk, high reward. You have to learn how to manage risks and just go “here goes nothing”.

If you don't take risks, we're just going to have 90% of our matches on Smashville STILL and everyone picks Sheik because she's the safest character in the game.
Hey, we should do some more matches some time soon! I like to face fellow risk takers. Though, taking risks against Bowser can be scary...
You don't know how to practice.
This isn't quite anyone's fault. In other fighting games, practice is not that hard to set up. Things like random block, working on combos, resets, etc. aren't options we have available in Smash. Smash is very bare bones with its training mode, but you can still practice.

You can study up on how DI works (it's a lot less complex than you think), what is a character's strength and weaknesses, and more. One thing I found extremely helpful was seeing that every character is designed to be proficient in two out of three ranges – close, mid, and long. Exceptions may exist here and there, but this is generally the case. With that in mind, you can try to exploit that hole in their range options. This is where CPU's can be helpful, but their capacity is limited.
I do... I just don't like to do it :(. I like to just have fun, and gain skill while doing that. That's worked so far with many different things in life. Though, I do stop and think all the time, which is probably what allows me to do that. However, you're probably right. I think I've reached the point in Smash 4 where if I want to get even better, I do need to be serious with practice. Smash is probably the first skill in my life to which I've reached that point. I'll keep that in mind.
You aren't patient.
Without fail, you will see beginners just running in, jumping, and rolling. Walking is seriously neglected and is vital for having control of the situation. Sure, you may not get in quickly and rack up damage, but it's better to wait and get the momentum than to just go all berserker. There may be periods where attacks don't connect at all or you're both just moving around. That's totally fine as both of you are trying to safely get an attack in. Patience is arguably the most important of the fundamentals in a fighting game.
I agree here definitely. I was kind of surprised when an Ike on Smashladder told me how he was amazed at my patience. I didn't really get what he meant at the time, but I think you helped me realize. Being an offensive player does not mean you cannot be patient. Offensive ≠ aggressive.
You care more about execution than strategy.
This is human nature really. You gravitate to the flashy stuff sooner than the boring and practical. Things like perfect pivot are very limited in their practical usage. You can get cool combos with them, but the chance of pulling them off at high level is unlikely. It's not about who can do the coolest stuff, it's about who uses their stuff the best.
Yeah, definitely! Perfect pivot is not going to be better for you than just better understanding of what to do when X! That is the base of skill. If perfect pivoting really turns out to be what you should do in that situation, then that's cool. Rather unlikely, though.

I think a good point to add here is even though I am really good at Monado Art Landing Lag Cancels, and was the person to engineer the technique (not to discover it though), I prefer decisive monado arts, which can't really do it much! However, I like Decisive Arts, because I perform better with them. It really seems to brings out the time I have placed into this character.

You fit characters into molds they won't fit in.
Most of the time, I see players trying to play characters the same as they would any other character. Typically, this is rush down. With some characters like Roy or Sheik, that's great, but every character is not going to work that way.

I'll see some players try to be aerial heavy with heavyweights, when it's clear they excel at ground combat. Thankfully, no one in their right mind tries to play an air heavy Mac. I'll see aggressive play of characters that really aren't meant to be played that way like Zelda and Palutena. They're more zoning and turtling than in your face gameplay. You should adapt your playstyle to those characters instead of the other way around if you're intent on playing them.

I'm not exactly anti customs, but I can't help but think that customs give players tunnel vision of what tools a character has. You become more focused on the special than the normals which are used for the bulk of a match. To a certain degree, these customs can be crutch moves such as the infamous case with Kong Cyclone, even if it's manageable.
This is true, but the last part about customs is probably more a hindrance on the players' abilities than a crutch. I think why we did not see more customs users placing higher at EVO was they are new to the moves, and are not using them very well yet. They might even be over-using them! If they win by just using kong cyclone over and over, that is good for them, but that move is punishable and easy to get out of.
You play for show, not to win.
Maybe it's the whole talk of eSports and sponsors, and maybe a little bit of Melee's influence, but for the love of God do what you have to win. This is a game, not a show. If you don't need to win using a bunch of rushdown then don't do it. If you need to, go ahead. Don't go for style. If you get style, that's great and is definitely a crowd pleaser, but don't go looking for it.
Mmhm, again, decisive arts instead of MALLC'ing. There's no doubt for me that MALLC'ing is a crowd pleaser. Some Project M players at a tourny I won really thought it was cool because it reminded them of L-cancelling. However, at a customs tourny coming soon (that I can hopefully make - really hope I'm not working), I'm running decisive arts. I'm going and winning. I feel like regular arts have been training weights, and now decisive monado arts are demonstrating all of the true skill I have accumulated while holding myself back. It would be a shame if I kept holding myself back due to what others thought.
 

Nobie

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I think both over-aggression or extreme turtling are the most common natural tendencies of new players. If it's a 1-on-1 game, people either tend to try and just do the moves they think are winners (Flowchart Ken) or they'll be too afraid to move out at all (Starcraft). It's understandable, and I think just about any new player in any fighting game thinks, "well jumping gets me further and lets me travel faster, and faster is better, so jump all the time."

However, I think the influence of Melee can be clearly seen in how many people tend to play or want to play. What i'm about to say isn't a criticism of Melee nor a Melee vs. Smash 4 argument, but rather something I've noticed about how optimal play in the former seems to affect how people perceive the latter.

In Melee, jumping is not without its risks, but due to l-canceling and a bunch of other properties it's way safer to jump at someone and attack their shield compared to Smash 4. You can shield pressure, and generally the person stuck in shield is considered to be at a disadvantage. If not for the sheer difficulty of that game, its style would probably appeal to even more players. This isn't to say Melee is mindless aggression, but the perception of it is there, and people keep wanting to play Smash 4 that way, even if it's not optimal. Of course, this doesn't affect everyone (there are Smash 4 players who never touched Melee either casually or competitively).

Another thing is what you mention about people forcing the character into their own tendencies, rather than playing to the character or trying to find the right match for their own preferred style. In an interview with Hungrybox after EVO, he said something along the lines of, at the highest level in the Fox matchup, you're not playing "Fox" but rather Mango's Fox, Armada's Fox, Leffen's Fox. Essentially, in Melee, once you've cut out the chaff (the low tier characters and arguably Jigglypuff as well), you don't have to adapt yourself to the character as much aside from technical skill requirements. Rather, you shape the character in your own image. Fox especially is basically a dense, open book, and players can bring whatever they want to Fox, be it aggressive, defensive, technical, safe, risk-taking, etc. Characters who are good at everything can be played in every way.

In Smash 4, however, pretty much all characters with a few exceptions arguably are defined just as heavily by their weaknesses as they are their strengths, and the game through its patches actively tries to maintain that kind of balance (the balance between strengths and weaknesses as opposed to roster balance). In this sense the character styles are more "rigid," and I think those who are used to being able to mold the character to themselves have some trouble with this. That's also not to say that characters can't be played differently (Mr. R's Sheik and Zero's Sheik were noticeably different at EVO), but players are actually limited by the confines of their character, and that's something perhaps people don't like or can't get used to. It's something I think anyone can relate to when they switch from a character they're really familiar with to someone who's extremely different. Suddenly you're bothered by how cumbersome DK is in the air, how floaty Jigglypuff can be, and so on and so forth.

If there's any common theme to what @ Big-Cat Big-Cat is saying, I think it's that players are unwilling to adapt themselves to the game, to perceive what is aggression or defense or smart play within the context of Smash 4.
 
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Zorcey

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If they're trying to get better, odds are they're still victims of one or more of the above-mentioned habits.
Not necessarily. Look at the OP, these are some pretty newbie mistakes, as I said earlier, and not ones that would effect most of those actively involved in the competitive community.

And unless someone specifically lives in an area with a massive and well-networked Smash community at all skill levels, it's easier to post on what's probably the top knowledge collection source for Smash and just hope someone reads it.
I do concede this point.
 

Raijinken

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Not necessarily. Look at the OP, these are some pretty newbie mistakes, as I said earlier, and not ones that would effect most of those actively involved in the competitive community.



I do concede this point.
I fairly often see regular tournament players do something showy and get punished. Lack of training options is kinda innate to the game as the OP mentioned. Patience isn't quite cut and dry, but is obviously more of a noob mistake than at higher levels. I know at least one Smash player who has been playing since 64 who still tries aggressive Villager just because he hates camping. And I wouldn't call "caring about execution over strategy" a noob mistake since it's something every ex-Melee player has complained about for Smash4 since day 1.

A lot of the post, to me, basically meant "Play the game how it is, not how you think it should be. And if you're competing, play to win." A lot of that is hard for players of all skill levels to fully commit to.
 

NewZen

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I would be inclined to agree with you mostly, but two of your points kind of contradict each other: The "You don't take Risks scenario" followed by the "Play to win, not for show".

Question is, whose to say anybody cares if the meta develops at all given that playing the best characters is the best way to win? Why should anyone take any risks with characters that not only are flawed in taking risks off and on the stage (Which happens to be a number of them in this game, unfortunately) when you can basically pick one character that covers all the basis' you need for victory? Hell, don't beat around the bush-it happened in Melee and Brawl and it's happening in Smash 4, as well, where everyone picked up a pocket Fox/Meta Knight and started trying to aim at the top simply because it's the best possible option. This time, it's Sheik and her Needles of Salt.

To get back on point, Smash 4 does have different ledge game mechanics and overall is more defensive oriented, and most of the time, taking a risk leads to death given the stigma that many newbies frequent this game, off and online and tend to cause the meta to stagnate (Then again, most of the new players couldn't give two ****'s about the meta, but that's another point entirely). That's the main reason why I continue with my playstyle and my characters, because in the end, it'll either allow me to win or it'll cause me the loss-I have nobody to blame but myself in one aspect, but I know damned well I'm not causing any stagnation in the meta because I'm actively taking a risk by not picking top tier characters left and right (Luigi is one of my secondaries, but that's because I've mained him since 64) and am trying to do something with my Main and nobody can tell me that the way I play the character I like is wrong-for ****'s sake, people try and tell Rosalina mains that they're wrong for playing her defensively when it's generally the best option she has due to the game's mechanics.

Rant over. All in all, you're right, but at the same time, some of these points are flawed given your final statement.
 

NotAnAdmin

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I'd say none of this applies to me.
Falco is probably one of the most "boring" character in the game.
No projectile game, no air mobility, no ground mobility. I wish I could style sometimes.
 

shinyskarmory

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While there are some relevant points in this post, it comes off as unnecessarily condescending to me. Sure, there are some Smash 4 players who are guilty of ALL of these things and could benefit from this post.

Then there are Smash 4 players who DO know how to practice, who will come here and immediately think "wow this guy's an asshole" (not my personal opinion but it's something I could easily see happening). Or Smash 4 players who don't just mindlessly approach with aerials and spam rolls who will come in here, see those parts, and say "Those parts don't apply to me, he's clearly not talking to me" and just leave.

The reality of posts like this is that the vast majority of the players who would benefit from reading them aren't Smashboards members, and I'm not sure if there's any way to address that.
 

Zorcey

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I fairly often see regular tournament players do something showy and get punished. Lack of training options is kinda innate to the game as the OP mentioned. Patience isn't quite cut and dry, but is obviously more of a noob mistake than at higher levels. I know at least one Smash player who has been playing since 64 who still tries aggressive Villager just because he hates camping. And I wouldn't call "caring about execution over strategy" a noob mistake since it's something every ex-Melee player has complained about for Smash4 since day 1.
I'm not arguing that nobody has the problems the OP mentions, I'm simply saying that his energy would be better spent offering advice to the players who need it, rather than identifying problems most who wish to improve already know about.


A lot of the post, to me, basically meant "Play the game how it is, not how you think it should be. And if you're competing, play to win." A lot of that is hard for players of all skill levels to fully commit to.
I don't agree that people don't "play to win." Sure, players like Manny and Hungrybox get hate for campy gameplay, but most players will turn around and do the same thing when they need to. Though maybe that's my cynicism talking.
 

Big-Cat

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I'd say none of this applies to me.
Falco is probably one of the most "boring" character in the game.
No projectile game, no air mobility, no ground mobility. I wish I could style sometimes.
Play another character.

I'm not arguing that nobody has the problems the OP mentions, I'm simply saying that his energy would be better spent offering advice to the players who need it, rather than identifying problems most who wish to improve already know about.
Here's my cynicism talking: They won't admit they need help and will refuse advice.
 

Ninj4pikachu

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I belive that flashy game play and "fancy" combos are good for the game. It makes the spectators more involved. I love watching nairo and DKwill go for the spike or something unexpected. Sure call it less optimal, sure it's a big risk vs reward but THATS what can make a match so exciting. I wouldn't fault them for having a little showmanship and giving us an entertaining fight. They still play with a lot of skill...
 

Big-Cat

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The spectators don't have to be involved at all. I doubt the top players think about putting on a show when money is on the line.
 

Raijinken

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I'd rather watch an esport than Sheik dittos. No amount of play-to-win can make up for the fact that a spectator fanbase is becoming increasingly vital for a game to have a successful life.

Imagine how much <insert popular Smash stream here> would hurt if people stopped subbing?

(Alternately, look at the power of things like Dota's International crowd-funded prize pool, and see how later today people will be playing for millions of dollars, all because spectators care. I wonder what would happen if Smash did the same?)
 
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Ninj4pikachu

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I'd rather watch an esport than Sheik dittos. No amount of play-to-win can make up for the fact that a spectator fanbase is becoming increasingly vital for a game to have a successful life.

Imagine how much <insert popular Smash stream here> would hurt if people stopped subbing?

(Alternately, look at the power of things like Dota's International crowd-funded prize pool, and see how later today people will be playing for millions of dollars, all because spectators care. I wonder what would happen if Smash did the same?)
This is what I'm talking about. Without a big spectator crowd we lose sponcers, venues, players, and the community shrinks. We need the game to be just as fun to watch as it is to play.

DKwill doesn't play as DK (for 3 different games) because he thinks he can win money with DK. He plays as the ape because that's what the crowd wants to see. He is a crowd pleaser and always make every battle fun to watch. He has a big following in Japan because he plays at high skill with a lower character and people want to see that!... They are sick of diddy and shiek combos, they have been done to death.
 

Baby_Sneak

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DKwillis plays DK because shocker.............. That's the character he enjoys playing. Why play DK for the crowd when capt.falcon exist.
Also, have any of you guys seriously played or studied any traditional fighting game? like at all?
ST is a game that is more rigid and restricted than smash 4 and people have been able to craft their own playstyle out of multiple characters. Like, zangief is more rigid than little mac, but lookie here,
"Some believe that there is only one "style"/way to play Zangief, but comparing the top two Zangief players from Japan, one will notice how different they play. Check these videos to better understand this: Pony's solid, classic style and Gunze's more Lariat-heavy one. Sure Zangief is not as crafty as Cammy and Fei Long, but it is still possible to create your own Zangief style."

and @ NotAnAdmin NotAnAdmin your character has one of the best boxing games ever and has Dthrow --> Rar Bair ---> turnaround Jab reset... like cmon man

and about the meta stagnating, I have no words. I think when smash people see a disadvantage MU, they think," oh god, I'm done. he counters me" when the MU is 40:60 or 35:65 or something. and then they think switching to sheik is the best option when everybody has MU experience against her.
 

NotAnAdmin

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What about Smash 64? 20+ years of Pikachu, Kirby, Fox and Falco
Melee? 10+ years of Space animals, Marth, Shiek and Capt Falcon and it still has a huge and still growing fanbase.
Brawl? 6+ years of MK, Snake, and IC's, Falco, Diddy Kong or ZSS at the top level
It has always been this way. Literally always. There are your few players who play "low tiers" but it is always few and far between.

The difference is Smash 4 hasn't even been out a full year and people are complaining about people using better characters on a regular basis. I would like to see the people who complain about not having enough variety actually use the characters they want to see, and learn why next to no one wants to play them and why they become a liability at top level play.
Not to say it isn't possible, I'm just saying put your controller where your mouth is and get up there and become the next best low-tier main and stop complaining.
It shouldn't be a surprise that people use the better character when money and fame in the community are on the line.

@ Baby_Sneak Baby_Sneak I know all of Falco's strengths, including dthrow > to RAR bair, jab reset only works if your opponent actually misses a tech, which isn't very often. What I'm saying is that he's boring, there is nothing that's really amazing about him. He has bair, and now his nair but overall hes very lackluster.
 

Ninj4pikachu

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All I was saying though, was that it's important that the games spectators enjoy it. That and you shouldn't scold Someone for wanting to do a flashy combo.

I don't think anyone can argue with those 2 points.
 

Baby_Sneak

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Ignore post for now, will right something productive later...
EDIT: @ NotAnAdmin NotAnAdmin I'm not talking about the smash reset. I'm talking about while the opponent is still in the air after getting hit by the Bair. You could perform a pseudo chain grab pretty much.
 
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busken

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@ Big-Cat Big-Cat

How can I make the most out of my time time in the lab? I want to practice my execution, not flashy combos but pure fundamentals like walking tilts, turnaround everything, pivot dash, etc
 

Big-Cat

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@ Big-Cat Big-Cat

How can I make the most out of my time time in the lab? I want to practice my execution, not flashy combos but pure fundamentals like walking tilts, turnaround everything, pivot dash, etc
Make a control scheme that is comfortable for you. I like having tilts on C Stick.
 

busken

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
677
Make a control scheme that is comfortable for you. I like having tilts on C Stick.
I did that already, I just I stay in the lab for hours into It becomes second nature. I must realize that their is no shortcut. Gonna start practicing now.
 

Big-Cat

Challenge accepted.
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
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KumaOso
3DS FC
1590-4853-0104
I did that already, I just I stay in the lab for hours into It becomes second nature. I must realize that their is no shortcut. Gonna start practicing now.
Another thing I do is make L or R a jump button. Makes practicing AC aerials easier because the jump and attack button are not bound to the thumb.
 

NotAnAdmin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 21, 2014
Messages
426
Ignore post for now, will right something productive later...
EDIT: @ NotAnAdmin NotAnAdmin I'm not talking about the smash reset. I'm talking about while the opponent is still in the air after getting hit by the Bair. You could perform a pseudo chain grab pretty much.
Yes I knew about that, when you said jab reset I took it literally...
Pre-patch it used to be dthrow > fair > regrab > repeat, but that was before Samurai killed off the auto-link property of the fair...
Those were better days.:scared:
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
I'd say none of this applies to me.
Falco is probably one of the most "boring" character in the game.
No projectile game, no air mobility, no ground mobility. I wish I could style sometimes.
Falco is probably one of the more interesting characters since all of his moves actually do something well unlike others where you end up with really good moves and good moves. So... characters like Sheik and pre-pre-patch Diddy. Falco had to style the moment this game came out since none of his moves were good and none of them were bad. Now, just now after almost 1 year of the game's release, people are actually using moves and trying rather than cookie cutting. I praise Angel Cortes and MVD for sticking with Diddy and innovating with him rather than abandoning him and going for cookie cuts.

Unfortunately, Falco doesn't really have stylish moves outside of Up Smash... Yeah... Everything else is pretty linear when you have Ganondorf doing the big hits, Ike using unorthodox swordsmanship, Captain Falcon having hype moves like the Knee, or Peach who has pretty moves and pretty sassy moves. Ever get backhanded? Play against a Peach. She'll do that and beat you upside the head with a crown. A CROWN.

Yes I knew about that, when you said jab reset I took it literally...
Pre-patch it used to be dthrow > fair > regrab > repeat, but that was before Samurai killed off the auto-link property of the fair...
Those were better days.:scared:
Autolink is still there, but the developers sped up Fair's hit rate by 2 frames. 2 seems small, right? 2 frames is also how much they took off of Fair's startup and 3 frames is how much they took off of Fox's Blaster end lag and lo, and behold, they're much quicker. What's the problem with D-throw and Fair grab reset is probably the change in the landing hit. It used to do 5% with 30 base knockback, but now does 3% with 50 BKB. Seems weaker, right? Add the 50 BKB to it's natural 160 knockback growth... Yeah, even though it does less damage, it does a ton of knockback.
 

Zorcey

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
371
We'll have to move this thread to the Falco boards pretty soon.
 
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