An official definition of an echo fighter. From Nintendo's JP site.

[Arthur97]

Wish they'd address Lucina in this.

 

[Luigifan18]

Wish they'd address Lucina in this.

In her case, it's obvious, isn't it? Her attributes are largely the same as Marth's; the difference is that the hitboxes of Marth's attacks are more complex, being split into sweetspots and sourspots, while Lucina's attacks have consistent power regardless of which part of the attack connects.

 

[Arthur97]

In her case, it's obvious, isn't it? Her attributes are largely the same as Marth's; the difference is that the hitboxes of Marth's attacks are more complex, being split into sweetspots and sourspots, while Lucina's attacks have consistent power regardless of which part of the attack connects.

No, I meant as to why she wasn't brought in line with the others with an idle stance (or, you know, some decloning since this is her second outing). Yes, I may sound like a broken record, but it bothers me!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

• Dr Mario not an echo because he has stuff that makes him play very differently from Mario, such as his weight (apparently he’s heavier), gravity, run speed, strong attacks, forward air knockback, Dr Tornado etc.

Odd that you would mention Dr. Mario's weight, because Mario and Dr. Mario have always shared the exact same weight value (except in the PAL version of Melee). They even get KO'd at around the same damage percentages, though Dr. Mario might get KO'd slightly sooner when sent flying sideways, simply due to having slightly different hurtbox placements, or having weaker air acceleration.

 

[FieryRebirth]

Echo fighters are a way to introduce otherwise similar/non-unique characters into the fray without the "CLONE!!" criticisms and appearing lazy with the bloating the roster as it is. Is it weird that even with the "semi-clone" characters like Lucina and Dr. Mario that I'm at a near-loss on their design philosophy when it comes to the label?

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I wish they would give Daisy Peach’s Melee/Brawl Up Air.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I still don't understand why some people feel the need to have strict definitions and categories regarding what is and what isn't an echo fighter.

Because a strict definition helps explain WHY characters like Dr. Mario and Pichu aren't echoes.

 

[Oddball]

Because a strict definition helps explain WHY characters like Dr. Mario and Pichu aren't echoes.

Okay ... but why is it important whether they are or aren't Officially echoes?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Okay ... but why is it important whether they are or aren't Officially echoes?

Cause I say it is.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

I still don't understand why some people feel the need to have strict definitions and categories regarding what is and what isn't an echo fighter.

We all know what you're talking about when you mention it.

Because it's confusing. What's the difference between an echo and a clone? How different can an echo be from the original character? Can we have semi echos? When it comes to adding characters with less work, will we get more clones/semi clones, or are echos gona be a lot more favoured?

 

[Sabertooth]

The fact that Alph is still a skin keeps me awake at night and makes my skin crawl.

 

[Oddball]

Because it's confusing. What's the difference between an echo and a clone?

Same thing, more or less.

How different can an echo be from the original character?

Anywhere from almost exactly the same to more or less the same.

Can we have semi echos?

No. You can't have something that is "Almost but not quite" almost but not quite the same thing.

Or another way of looking at it ...

Yes. All echoes are semi echoes.

When it comes to adding characters with less work, will we get more clones/semi clones, or are echos gona be a lot more favoured?

Sticking a different name on something doesn't change the amount of work it takes.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Same thing, more or less.


Anywhere from almost exactly the same to more or less the same.


No. You can't have something that is "Almost but not quite" almost but not quite the same thing.

Or another way of looking at it ...

Yes. All echoes are semi echoes.


Sticking a different name on something doesn't change the amount of work it takes.

theyre not the same though. thats the point. there's a difference between clones and echos

and echoes take much less time than clones. and clones and echos clearly take much less time than a unique character.. thats the whole reason any echos or clones are in the game. so sakurai can add more characters without taking up as many resources.

 

[Arthur97]

theyre not the same though. thats the point. there's a difference between clones and echos

and echoes take much less time than clones. and clones and echos clearly take much less time than a unique character.. thats the whole reason any echos or clones are in the game. so sakurai can add more characters without taking up as many resources.

But...echoes are a fancy new term for clones. Semi-clones however, are different. Bear in mind, I don't think the clone terminology was ever actually official.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

But...echoes are a fancy new term for clones. Semi-clones however, are different. Bear in mind, I don't think the clone terminology was ever actually official.

Just based on the current definition by nintendo, this is already untrue. But you can tell echos are not quite the same as clones. Clones have more differences than echos, and semi clones have even greater differences. I just dont know at what point the label changes from echo to clone.

 

[Arthur97]

Just based on the current definition by nintendo, this is already untrue. But you can tell echos are not quite the same as clones. Clones have more differences than echos, and semi clones have even greater differences. I just dont know at what point the label changes from echo to clone.

Echo is a marketing term. The label "changed" to make people complain less (though, again, I'm not sure clone was ever officially used). Just look at Falco and Dr. Mario in Melee. They may have had marginally more differences (though they seem more in line with Chrom).

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Echo is a marketing term. The label "changed" to make people complain less (though, again, I'm not sure clone was ever officially used). Just look at Falco and Dr. Mario in Melee. They may have had marginally more differences (though they seem more in line with Chrom).

I dont think so. Ganondorf, roy and Falco had a lot of different attributes compared to their original counterparts. While someone like lucina has only one small change. Echos seem to be a lot more closely related to their original counterparts than clones.

I dont think theyd make a clone like the melee ganondorf for example and call that an echo.

 

[Arthur97]

I dont think so. Ganondorf, roy and Falco had a lot of different attributes compared to their original counterparts. While someone like lucina has only one small change. Echos seem to be a lot more closely related to their original counterparts than clones.

I dont think theyd make a clone like the melee ganondorf for example and call that an echo.

They still had nearly identical movesets. The new ones may be somewhat more cloney, but both are very obviously low effort (some lower than others, looking at you, Lucina).

Either way, is this not pointlessly splitting hairs?