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An awesome way to use the side-B! Use this move more!

Rhyfelwyr

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
649
Location
Michigan
I thought of this application after lurking about the Ganondorf boards. One thing I see mentioned there often is to use Ganon's flame choke when someone is about to land. I wondered why this is, and after trying it out myself, it works really well.

Here's why. The moment when someone lands, there are some interesting restrictions. If a character is doing an air action, such as attacking, or airdodging, that action will be canceled when they land. Because of this, airdodging just above the ground rarely can protect you. But, from an airdodge landing you can buffer the shield button to make it so your shield comes up straight away when landing. Now because Ganon's side-B is a grab, this won't save them! The only way they can escape the flame choke, is by doing a very well timed spotdodge or roll upon landing.

Now with Pit it gets even better, since his side-B is a constant multi-hit attack. There is no way for them to prevent getting hit if you time it right! If they buffer a shield, you can keep attacking to at least drain a healthy part of their shield before they inevitably have to roll backwards. There's something you need to know about spotdodging and rolling. There are a few frames from activation of these defensive maneuvers where you are still susceptible to attack. Because the angel ring is a multi hit attack, you're guaranteed to hit during this vulnerability. So there is nothing your opponent can do to stop this!

Normally when I tried chasing someones landing, I'd use the U-smash or F-air, but those would always either get airdodged or shield-grabbed. I've never had that problem with the side-B. Once they're at a high percent though, I'll try using U-smash and F-air again to get that KO.

There's one more use I'll say, which has been said before on the boards. Normally the only way to escape the Side-B once caught blocking it, is by rolling backwards, but what if there is no room for them to roll? If someone is by the edge, and you're far enough away that you can use the side-B and stop before going off the edge yourself, you got them. They can only escape by rolling the same exact moment you attack.

Another good application is to do it if you predict them rolling towards you. I like this move because it sets up combos as well as continuing them.

Also, there is a delay in finishing this move and a good opponent will know that and react accordingly. You can use this to you advantage. You use AR and hit them, then you know that they are going to attack asap so you spotdodge asap or I like to use Dtilt. You can spotdodge quicker than they can hit you which leaves them open.
I like AR.
If you use angel rings in the air it doesn't move you very far at all. Generally for punishing landings you'd probably want to be moving a good distance but theres times where using it on the ground will push you off the edge but you can jump and use angel rings for the spacing you need.
Side-B toward the edge is a great tactic, my opponents always seem to get caught in longer than they should because they don't want to go off the edge XD. If you place it right they'll have a real hard time getting back on the stage from the ledge. Basically they have to do they ledge attack because jumping and normal get up get hit (mayb roll doesnt but honestly who ever rolls?). And now because you know they have to ledge attack you can anticapate and punish them!

side B toward the edge FTW.
I hope these tricks are useful to you guys. I know I've been using the move a lot more.
 

Rhyfelwyr

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
649
Location
Michigan
You use it where it won't push them off the edge, but there isn't enough room to roll backwards. After they get hit, you stop pressing B, and you'll be able to defend yourself by the time they grab the ledge.
 

Ryazan

Smash Ace
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
638
Location
Kildeer, IL
This sounds pretty useful...it has the potential to make Pit an even better edgeguarder than he already is. And that's saying something.
 

teh_pwns_the

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
461
Location
Fort Collins, CO
yea i know not off the edge but cant they still DI backwards until they escape teh ring and then grab edge? oh and cool find about hitting them as teh dodge/land
 

Rhyfelwyr

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
649
Location
Michigan
This sounds pretty useful...it has the potential to make Pit an even better edgeguarder than he already is. And that's saying something.
This isn't only about edgeguarding. If you hit someone into the air with you're Up-smash, and they DI far away from you hoping to land safely, you can catch them with the side-B. Trying an aerial might miss, since they can be airdodged.

yea i know not off the edge but cant they still DI backwards until they escape teh ring and then grab edge? oh and cool find about hitting them as teh dodge/land
If you stop once you see them get hit, they won't be able to counter attack in time.
 

Rhyfelwyr

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
649
Location
Michigan
I use angel ring almost as much as the arrows now. Now that I know these amazing uses, it's disappointing when I see so many Pit matches where the move is completely ignored.

oh alright tahnks Rhy, havent seen you post in a while, but still thanks i hardly ever use AR but you jsut gave me reason to
You're welcome. I've been posting, just not on the Pit boards. All my attention has been on the combo list in my signature.
 

hellbourne

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
44
Another thing to make pit even more annoying. The move isn't even that bad, but hearing "HIYAYAYAYA" over and over again drives me nuts.
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
Another good application is to do it if you predict them rolling towards you. I like this move because it sets up combos as well as continuing them.

Also, there is a delay in finishing this move and a good opponent will know that and react accordingly. You can use this to you advantage. You use AR and hit them, then you know that they are going to attack asap so you spotdodge asap or I like to use Dtilt. You can spotdodge quicker than they can hit you which leaves them open.
I like AR.
 

Rhyfelwyr

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
649
Location
Michigan
Another good application is to do it if you predict them rolling towards you. I like this move because it sets up combos as well as continuing them.

Also, there is a delay in finishing this move and a good opponent will know that and react accordingly. You can use this to you advantage. You use AR and hit them, then you know that they are going to attack asap so you spotdodge asap or I like to use Dtilt. You can spotdodge quicker than they can hit you which leaves them open.
I like AR.
As their damage increases, the wind from the ending of the Angel Ring will get stronger. At a certain point they won't even be able to stutter step F-smash you, and then they're really open.

It's not AS annoying. At least it's an improvement.

And you can always mute the TV you're playing on.
Isn't it more annoying to have to turn off all the sound, just to get rid of that single one?
 

Rhyfelwyr

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
649
Location
Michigan
Wouldn't it be better if the annoying sound didn't exist at all, and we could keep our music on? This is an inane argument we're having. lol
 

Ryazan

Smash Ace
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
638
Location
Kildeer, IL
Yeah, this has very little to do with this topic. I guess the sheer awesomeness of AR itself outweighs the sheer annoyance of AR's sound effect.
 

Ryanarius

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
416
Location
Memphis, TN
I had occasionally used the side b on the edge just because its a pain for them to get out of for some reason I had never though of punishing landing with it.

I didn't read the entire thread so I apologize if this has already been mentioned but if you use angel rings in the air it doesn't move you very far at all. Generally for punishing landings you'd probably want to be moving a good distance but theres times where using it on the ground will push you off the edge but you can jump and use angel rings for the spacing you need.
 

BrawlBro

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
770
Location
michigan
Side-B toward the edge is a great tactic, my opponents always seem to get caught in longer than they should because they don't want to go off the edge XD. If you place it right they'll have a real hard time getting back on the stage from the ledge. Basically they have to do they ledge attack because jumping and normal get up get hit (mayb roll doesnt but honestly who ever rolls?). And now because you know they have to ledge attack you can anticapate and punish them!

side B toward the edge FTW.



BTW Ryanarius I just watched your pit vid i never thought of using mirror off the edge like that that was awesome! cool stuffz
 

Rhyfelwyr

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
649
Location
Michigan
I had occasionally used the side b on the edge just because its a pain for them to get out of for some reason I had never though of punishing landing with it.

I didn't read the entire thread so I apologize if this has already been mentioned but if you use angel rings in the air it doesn't move you very far at all. Generally for punishing landings you'd probably want to be moving a good distance but theres times where using it on the ground will push you off the edge but you can jump and use angel rings for the spacing you need.
Good point. Up close I'll do the A infinite to create the same scenario by the edge, but if I'm too far for the jab, and too close for the side-B, jumping first would work.

Side-B toward the edge is a great tactic, my opponents always seem to get caught in longer than they should because they don't want to go off the edge XD. If you place it right they'll have a real hard time getting back on the stage from the ledge. Basically they have to do they ledge attack because jumping and normal get up get hit (mayb roll doesnt but honestly who ever rolls?). And now because you know they have to ledge attack you can anticapate and punish them!

side B toward the edge FTW.
Exactly! Your post describes why it isn't a problem if they DI away from you to grab the ledge.
 

iron blade

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
862
Location
Brawling
I've been using side B towards the ledge for a while now. If you space it just right, it pushes them right next to the edge, but not over. They will almost involuntarily move toward you at first, until they are forced to move toward the edge. By the time they get back up, you're ready to attack again.

I hadn't thought of using it as they land, good idea. I know about getting hit during that window of vulnerability when rolling or dodging very well unfortunately. I have to fix that...
 

Rhyfelwyr

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
649
Location
Michigan
Normally when I tried chasing someones landing, I'd use the U-smash or F-air, but those would always either get airdodged or shield-grabbed. I've never had that problem with the side-B. Once they're at a high percent though, I'll try using U-smash and F-air again to get that KO.
 

Ryazan

Smash Ace
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
638
Location
Kildeer, IL
It's beginning to sound like Angel Ring makes Pit top-tier material. He's an unstoppable edgeguarder and a master of recovery, and when you combine the two he's pretty much made of win considering the KO system of SSB games.
 

Sesshomuronay

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,458
Location
Canada, British Columbia
Angel ring can do pretty good damage if you can catch the opponent in it. This things pretty good but I find making it reflect attacks was a bit unnecessary cause we got the mirror shield and all.
 

Ryazan

Smash Ace
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
638
Location
Kildeer, IL
That may be, but Angel Ring is much more effective as an attack than Mirror Shield. If it has the ability to reflect projectiles almost as effectively as Mirror Shield, that just makes it even better.
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
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8,722
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Skyworld
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I still say it is too risky, but ill try it and see what happens.
 

Mista Sinista

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2002
Messages
1,680
Location
Canada
As far as mirror shield goes, dropping off the stage and sending someone's up b the wrong way > *

Now as far as the Angel Ring goes, I barely use it mainly because I understand people's annoyance with how many n00b Pit's smash the **** out of this. This is a good move but it's very punishable. You can roll away from it very easily seeming as the DI takes barely any time to escape from this, but you can also roll behind Pit and destroy him up the buttz0rz lolollololo SOI SOI SOI.

In all seriousness though, the best use I've ever seen for this move was I think when Kupo (I think) used this against Snake. He kept reflecting Snake's Mortar and it gave him the edge in the match. Even if Snake didn't SD 2/3 of his stock *coughnubcough* he would've taken disgusting amounts of damage by always getting hit by this.

Obviously as with any move in this game, spamming it leads to predictability which leads to getting ***** and possibly losing.

When you play Pit, you gotta play smart and this move is no exception. Use it cautiously and use it properly but don't overdo it. This move can throw people off like you wouldn't believe if you limit its use, I personally use it MAX a handful of times per match and I always wreck with it because of that.
 

Mista Sinista

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2002
Messages
1,680
Location
Canada
Play against someone with good DI. They'll DI back immediately and escape the angel ring, then roll behind you and wreck you. If this person is Mario, that fsmash doesn't feel good X_X
 

Rhyfelwyr

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
649
Location
Michigan
I'm not telling people to abuse the move, but it's definitely not used enough. When I said I use the ring almost as much as arrows, I don't use arrows too much.

DI is when you press the control stick to change direction. Usually referred to for knockback.

I tested it in 1/4 speed, and it is impossible to DI quickly enough to roll behind the Pit user before he finishes! I used double stick smash DI even.

So because I suggest to use the side-B at a time, where they can't escape it even by rolling, this is a nearly perfect strategy when done right.
 

teh_pwns_the

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
461
Location
Fort Collins, CO
why wouldnt you use arrows alot? when you are far enough away its a ridiculously easy way to rack up a little damage and it can often times open up an attack for you if you do it as they attempt to approach

I have been using AR alot more lately thanks, well a lot more considering that before i never used it ever, id always get sick of so many people whining about it haha, so i jstu beat them without muhahaha
 

Rhyfelwyr

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
649
Location
Michigan
Well, if they don't come to me I spam arrows like crazy, but in high level matches I don't get too many chances to use arrows safely.
 

Chris Lionheart

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
2,076
Location
Make Your Move
After some experimenting I think it can be used as an alternate RAR (more for mind games and unpredictability rather than actually increasing its effect.)

Just do what you would do in a RAR, but instead of pressing A, press B. Then he'll hit the opponent with an angel ring in the direction you were dashing.

The possible use to this is that it can remove some of the predictability of the RAR. If they think you're going to use your B-Air, pop out Angel Ring and their side-step just got bypassed (due to constant multi-hits.) If you hit them just right, you can even rack up some nice damage. :bee:

Then when you do try to pop them with a back aerial, it'll be more surprising.

I also am experimenting with D-Air and U-Air as fake RAR's.
 

Chris Lionheart

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
2,076
Location
Make Your Move
I'm really beginning to love this move.

1). Its a reflector.
2). Its got satisfying damage and edgeguarding results.
3). It can't be side-stepped reliably.

I'm not even annoyed by the HIYAYAYAYAYA for some reason... Lol I guess its just patience. And it adds a fourth benefit.

4) My friends ARE annoyed by it! :laugh:
 
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