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Am I the only one that seems completely incapable of liking brawl?

`Jammin' Jobus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
489
I'm not trying to be a **** or anything but i've seriously tried and tried and tried to like brawl but I just can't. I won't give up yet but it's looking grim. I got all the characters and played around with it.. but at this point i'd rather practice against a level 1 comp in melee than play brawl online, its just more fun. I'm pretty sure anyone who devoted alot of time to mastering melee and actually getting good can relate to this feeling. I know bunch of bad players will come into this thread saying stuff like "omg go back to melee with yur wavedash haxors" and **** but whatever.


anyone else feel this way?
 

R. Olivaw

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
28
No, but I have a few friends who wish Brawl were more like Melee. I've told them the same thing I say now: adapt or don't play. It's as easy as that.

The only people who are disappointed with Brawl are the people who thought it was going to be Melee 2.0. I've already found characters I like playing as, so I guess it's easier for me to adapt.
 

TamOtter

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
26
I can see where you're coming from. Melee was, with a few exceptions, a perfect game. It had an easy learning curve with as much depth as you wanted. A lot of people put a boatload of time and effort into it, and got VERY attached to the engine.

However, things change.

Brawl, in my opinion, is both a step forward and backward. Online play, when it delags, will own. The incredible priority with edge grabbing is nice, and an expanded character list is ALWAYS welcome. HOWEVER... I really do miss my wave dash. The improved rolls and air recovery are nice and all, but there's a hole left by the wave dash. There's no real good positioning tool available now. Lucario seems like he requires it, Marth could use it again, Olimar would be sick to watch with a tool like that...

With every new incarnation, there'll be good and bad things about it. I wouldn't go so far as Olivaw's comment about play/don't play, but if you don't like it, try to find a way to keep at least some part of it enjoyable.
 

Commander Jesus

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
28
i JUST PICKED IT UP QUICK (sry caps) and was good at Brawl knowing what i know from melee even though i was using wiimote controls
 

kitsuneboy_geoff

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 29, 2005
Messages
182
I can honestly see where you're coming from OP. But please just give the game at least a year before putting it down. Most awesome melee players spent years mastering the game.
 

Vortok

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Messages
334
Location
Washington
Melee's metagame is quite literally years ahead of Brawl's metagame. Knowing the metagame and how to do slightly less obvious stuff/how to play more efficiently can often make the game more fun. Brawl is new. We all suck at it, compared to how we'll be once everything (mostly) has been found and perfected.

In the end, they're two different games with different styles. It's pretty easy to understand that not everyone has the same tastes. Some people will simply like Melee more than Brawl regardless of the state of the metagame or how many advanced techniques are found.

The thing that saddens me about Brawl is there's already stuff that will probably cause a good portion of the game content to be unplayble for high level play (like Dedede/Falco's chaingrab removing any stage with walk-off edges, even if they're temporary such as Delfino). I'm still trying to decide if I want to put in the effort to really get good at Brawl, as that will also mean ignoring a large portion of the content (since it's basically broken in certain situations).
 

Lovage 805

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
2,197
Location
I left my wallet in
I know where you're coming from, I could practice fox against lv 1 CPU all day in Melee, in Brawl , the only thing that keeps me entertained is good wifi, and playing with friends.
 

RedrappeR

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
294
I'm not trying to be a **** or anything but i've seriously tried and tried and tried to like brawl but I just can't. I won't give up yet but it's looking grim. I got all the characters and played around with it.. but at this point i'd rather practice against a level 1 comp in melee than play brawl online, its just more fun. I'm pretty sure anyone who devoted alot of time to mastering melee and actually getting good can relate to this feeling. I know bunch of bad players will come into this thread saying stuff like "omg go back to melee with yur wavedash haxors" and **** but whatever.


anyone else feel this way?
You're possibly the most intelligent poster I've seen post something along the vein of this on this board. Period.

Just give it time man, it takes a while to get out of one games meta and into another's. It happened with SF, MvC, KoF, and even MK from time to time. It's the way fighting games are designed.

Take a break, and try to calm your nerves. Play it a bit differently. It's pretty much a clean slate from here on out.

Best advice I can give you.
 

Ikural

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
207
Location
Windsor, Ontario
I was honestly expecting to hate it.

I do, in fact, love it.

But I understand your way of thinking. You're feeling how I expected to feel, because I fell in love with Melee too. Only thing I can say is this: Do some research about it. Pinpoint a character you might want to try and read up on it. Once you have, develope that character. It'll be great to work knowing strategies/techs, and it will give the game a feel of competetive play, kind of like practicing techs in Melee. It's what makes the game worth playing.

If not, there will always be people who love Melee. Sure, several people may quit it with the release of Brawl, but many will always play it. I could never give it up. Just stick with it if Brawl doesn't appeal to you at all in the long run.
 

Drunken_Dragon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
209
Location
Raleigh, NC
i enjoy it. ive devoted tons of time to mastering things in melee; that however dosent effect my opinion of brawl in anyway. i like the direction the brawl metagame is going.
 

SFJake

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
166
Location
Canada, Quebec
I know bunch of bad players will come into this thread saying stuff like "omg go back to melee with yur wavedash haxors" and **** but whatever.
Way to finish a comment. Thats one of the few reasons I like Brawl despite it not living to my expectations. I find it normal that if you lived on wavedashing that you might dislike it, but I find the lack of such a big learning curve (at the moment) a good thing, but thats opinion.

Don't force yourself to like the game if you don't want to. You can't like everything, even if the general opinion says its good.
 

VVayfarer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
270
Location
Europe, Finland, Helsinki
Am i the only one that thinks this doesn't belong in here? Oh well.
I was expecting something like "Brawl sux balls lolol", but your post is actually one of the most intelligent Brawl-dislike posts out there.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
i felt the same day the first day brawl was out

you have to learn brawl's adv techs to actually enjoy it, also you have to remember its been out for three days now... new techs will come lol
 

Nemireck

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
38
Location
Mississauga, Ontario
That depends on how much you enjoyed and depended on using the two main techniques that were removed from Brawl, namely Wavedashing and L-Canceling.

I LOVED Super Smash Bros. 64, and always felt that it was the better incarnation of the two games. L-Canceling and Teching were easy as hell, and I like the way items are thrown in 64 as opposed to Melee and Brawl (Link was my favourite character in 64 despite his low tier-rating, because I could use bombs to do tons and tons of damage, as well as setting up combos and playing mind games, and I couldn't do that at all in Melee, Brawl has brought back my love of bombs though with the new knock-back mechanics). But once I got used to Melee's speed, and stopped accidently Air-Dodging while trying to L-Cancel (a habit from mashing Z over and over again to Z-Cancel and tech in 64), it really stuck to me. Then I discovered wave-dashing, and my opinion changed. I'd always felt that L/Z-canceling was a bit of a broken mechanic in the game and was indeed an exploit, easy to pull off and fair for sure, but an exploit all the same. Wave-dashing was the same thing for me, but a bit more tricky. Now, wavedashing is an obvious unintended effect in the game, and was never meant to be used in the manner competitive players were using it. On the one hand, it can be argued that techniques like WaveDashing help ALL characters, but in reality it only gives Top Tier characters more options than they already have. I used Wave-Dashing as a necessity to compete against good players, but I've never enjoyed it as a game mechanic.

Brawl has removed Wave-Dashing, which is a great thing in my mind, but also taken out L-Canceling, which, while still an exploit along the same lines as Wave-Dashing, I actually have always liked, but eventually it ended up feeling like a mandatory button-press after each move. The trade-off for no L-Canceling is less lag on really bad moves like Link's Dair, and no lag-time at all for other moves, meaning L-Canceling isn't needed for most moves, so the mandatory button-press is gone. Now, some moves still have bad ground-lag, but I view that as a balancing agent, and as long as I know which moves have lag and which ones don't, you can incorporate that knowledge into the metagame. The tradeoff for Wave-Dashing is the ability to FSmash (or any other move you want, for that matter) out of a quick-dash, which was essentially the best use for Wave-Dashing in Melee other than spacing, which can be done just as easily with basic walking/dashing/running anyway. We're also able to air-dodge multiple times in the air, and there's a dodge that hovers right above the ground (think it's down then shield? Or is just jump then dodge right away... It's in my muscle memory, not my actual memory LOL) that gives you a few frames of invincibility, so I think the tradeoff is fair in that regard too.

In the end, if you were attached on those techniques as a means to enjoy the game, you're going to be disappointed with brawl. But if you can understand that the game is more balanced because of these removals, and that you now have to be good at the game rather than relying on L-Canceling and Wave-Dashing to get a step above the people in your crew who don't know how, and once you realize that the game can be just-as, if not even more exciting with the new mechanics, you should be able to get over your misgivings and enjoy Brawl, just not until your initial attachment to WD and LC fades away.
 

`Jammin' Jobus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
489
I wouldn't say im attached to the techniques... they just made the game so much funner for me.

I just can't imagine myself ever having as much fun with brawl compared to playing melee against my brother in fast paced and intense matches. I'm sure theres ton of people here with that same feeling. It's like theres a void that brawl can't fill.
 

Ikural

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
207
Location
Windsor, Ontario
Brawl can not be Melee, but we still have Melee.

I don't think you should compare Brawl to Melee, they are SO different. It's like comparing Guilty Gear to Street Fighter. Same style, but way different.

Just look to Brawl as a completely new competetive fighter. It's not the second Melee, it's the first Brawl.
 

ska5fe

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
5
Location
Chicago, IL
I personally love Brawl, but then again, I was never a tournament-caliber Melee player, so I can't totally relate to you, OP. Sorry! I hope you can find a game to fill Melee's void.
 

Reynbo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
45
Well i just played it yesterday at a friends house for about 5hours and so far i'm a little disappointed but hopefully that'll change:ohwell:
 

Tyr_03

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
OH
I'd give it time. With some luck new things will be discovered to make it a more technical game. I agree to some extent but I think it's still a bit early to judge the game. But even if I'm wrong and it does turn out to be a disappointment, I'm sure the smash community will realize it and go back to melee which is always good.
 

R.Y.N.O

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Messages
202
Location
VA
I see what you mean. Well, nothing is perfect. I've been grounded so I have not gotten to play the game yet but my sis said it IS NOT MELEE. You have to start from the ground up and make knew combos. I see what you mean though. The physics are different too which will take some getting used to.
 

Seraphi-Kid

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
13
Location
Fairfax, VA
You're possibly the most intelligent poster I've seen post something along the vein of this on this board. Period.

Just give it time man, it takes a while to get out of one games meta and into another's. It happened with SF, MvC, KoF, and even MK from time to time. It's the way fighting games are designed.

Take a break, and try to calm your nerves. Play it a bit differently. It's pretty much a clean slate from here on out.

Best advice I can give you.

Intelligent post? I must have missed something.

For me it read a little more like: BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. And then a "YEAH WELL I'M GOING TO POST ON SOME FORUMS ON THE INTERNET AND THEN NOT CARE ABOUT ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME" clause he adds at the end. If this is what you consider intelligent, I fear for you.

To the OP: You think all of Melee's advanced techs were discovered a week or even a month after it was released? You pick up this new game and say "IT'S NOT THE SAME.", cry about it, and then instead of working to discover new techniques you sit and wait for others to do it for you. That's awesome, really. If only everyone thought that way, then we could all just brawl on wi-fi standing next to each other attempting to pull off fully charged smashes while waiting for the smash ball to appear. Why bother trying to discover techniques at all?


If you really enjoy watching your Fox/Falco/Sheik have his/her way with a level 1 CPU in Melee more than actually, you know, playing a new game, then by all means go for it. Nobody is stopping you, and you should do whatever is more fun for you, even if it is a complete waste of time.
 

RedrappeR

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
294
Intelligent post? I must have missed something.

For me it read a little more like: BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. And then a "YEAH WELL I'M GOING TO POST ON SOME FORUMS ON THE INTERNET AND THEN NOT CARE ABOUT ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME" clause he adds at the end. If this is what you consider intelligent, I fear for you.
Hey! I have an idea! It's called not jumping to a conclusion! If this is your idea of a post trying to act intelligent by being a cynical prick to somebody who's trying to like the game, and coming here politely instead of *****ing and moaning like half of general brawl-- you're an idiot.

You obviously haven't been to a lot of forums if you're getting that from his first post, and if you have, then you're overreacting immensely.
 

Mama

Smash Ace
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
776
Location
Richmond California (northern)
I played Melee competitively for 3 years. In my very first Brawl fight I actually tried to wave dash on instinct twice and adjusted slowly. But guess what? I adapted. I'm not like you. A gimp minded mother fu_cker who doesn't try to learn how to play a game. You're the type of ****** that makes the rest of the good players look bad. Notice how all the real pros don't even bother posting in topics like this or anywhere on the boards for that matter. (unless its to share a new discovery or something). I come to post in my off time when I'm board thats my excuse >.>

Whats your excuse for not trying to play Brawl? Too slow for you? No L-canceling? Can't approach your opponent? I got over that shiet ages ago. As its been stated by noobs and pros alike Brawl is a different game. What worked before is changed up now. Simple as that. Some b!tches come and complain that because of the lack of hit stun they can't approach their opponent. Well if you treat it like Melee then yea you probably wouldn't thats why you need to get better instead of ***** and complain. But hell, if you don't want to try and learn a new game then don't go ahead and be a scrub. The rest of us will be enjoying our games and evolving our play style as we go. Just like the Smash64 to Melee transition there will be b!tches who gripe about change.

I think the problem is people got into the game too late and were used to having all the discoveries already there and known. Well go take a hiatus. Come back when the game begins to evolve and see if you maintain that pu$$y *** attitude.
 

shadydentist

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
1,035
Location
La Jolla, CA
^^ overreacted a little, I think.

I got into melee late in the game. Didn't pick it up until my senior year of high school. However, during that time I still got to witness the game evolve, and it was pretty exciting.

If anything, getting a late start in melee has made me more interested in how Brawl's gonna turn out.
 

Mama

Smash Ace
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
776
Location
Richmond California (northern)
^^ overreacted a little, I think.

I got into melee late in the game. Didn't pick it up until my senior year of high school. However, during that time I still got to witness the game evolve, and it was pretty exciting.

If anything, getting a late start in melee has made me more interested in how Brawl's gonna turn out.
Well I'm sick of the whining people on these boards. I was really directing my flame at all those people lol. I wouldn't say I over reacted though.

I agree that getting in late can increase your interest in watching the evolution of Brawl. Thats why I'm so interested. But getting in late for some people makes them assume that everything will be laid out for them already. They don't realize that a lot of the things they were used to weren't discovered for a long time. Patience helps. But if people are really that upset about it then I think they need to just quit for a while and come back later.
 

Ikural

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
207
Location
Windsor, Ontario
I don't believe that any flaming helps anybody. Come on people, we're all different, but this is a group of Smashers, and dare I say it, a community.

We are all on these boards for teh same reason. That reason is Smash. Some of us are here for Brawl, others for Melee, and some for 64, but it's Smash nonetheless.

Mama, I understand where you're coming from, and a lot fo your points are correct, but you chose the wrong place and time to post your concerns. In this placement it is an overreaction and quite uneccesarry. I personally got into Melee very late into its developement, maybe last Summer, soon before TransCanada, and it would have been much better to get into it early. If anything, this has made me want to get into and stay involved with Brawl moreso, and see it develop. Now I can evolve as a Smasher along with this game, so getting in late can be a problem for some or an uprising for others. Try to refrain from stereotyping people as to when they got into Smash, there will be people who hate the change. If that's the case, and you feel as you do, then you do not need to interfere, because you're simply flaming and will likely get flamed back. If you feel like you do then just stay away from these so-called 'b!tches who gripe about change'.

Given some time to calm down, I think you'd think more rationally and not categorize people chronologically by Melee or 64 start date. Whether or not you like the change, and how you adapt to it has nothing to do with when you got involved, it's more like the type of person, or how involved you got.
 

`Jammin' Jobus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
489
I played Melee competitively for 3 years. In my very first Brawl fight I actually tried to wave dash on instinct twice and adjusted slowly. But guess what? I adapted. I'm not like you. A gimp minded mother fu_cker who doesn't try to learn how to play a game. You're the type of ****** that makes the rest of the good players look bad. Notice how all the real pros don't even bother posting in topics like this or anywhere on the boards for that matter. (unless its to share a new discovery or something). I come to post in my off time when I'm board thats my excuse >.>

Whats your excuse for not trying to play Brawl? Too slow for you? No L-canceling? Can't approach your opponent? I got over that shiet ages ago. As its been stated by noobs and pros alike Brawl is a different game. What worked before is changed up now. Simple as that. Some b!tches come and complain that because of the lack of hit stun they can't approach their opponent. Well if you treat it like Melee then yea you probably wouldn't thats why you need to get better instead of ***** and complain. But hell, if you don't want to try and learn a new game then don't go ahead and be a scrub. The rest of us will be enjoying our games and evolving our play style as we go. Just like the Smash64 to Melee transition there will be b!tches who gripe about change.

I think the problem is people got into the game too late and were used to having all the discoveries already there and known. Well go take a hiatus. Come back when the game begins to evolve and see if you maintain that pu$$y *** attitude.
you're just being a bi tch. I can't imagine any tournament level players not having an overall sense of dissapointment that this game will more than likely never reach anything like what melee did. After my first game against someone good who actually knew how to manipulate the physics to air dodge out of everything, I knew brawl was probably not for me. I guess i grew attached to having fun from smash bros.

To the OP: You think all of Melee's advanced techs were discovered a week or even a month after it was released? You pick up this new game and say "IT'S NOT THE SAME.", cry about it, and then instead of working to discover new techniques you sit and wait for others to do it for you. That's awesome, really. If only everyone thought that way, then we could all just brawl on wi-fi standing next to each other attempting to pull off fully charged smashes while waiting for the smash ball to appear. Why bother trying to discover techniques at all?

.
Did ssb64 have the popularity that melee did? Did 64 have the tournament scene that melee did? Was there one tenth the people looking for new techniques upon melee release than there are now? Was our knowledge of smash and frame data and AR nearly as good as it is now?

Basically within two months, of many many many many people testing the game very little that excited me for this game has been found. I think people are taking this "OMG CRAZY INSANE TECHS WILL BE FOUND" **** a little far. I just have my doubts that this will ever be a viable tournament game. I expected it to feel like a sequel to melee but I guess that was asking for too much. It looks like a sequel but feels like a step backward.
 

Eggm

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
5,178
Location
Neptune, NJ
I'm not trying to be a **** or anything but i've seriously tried and tried and tried to like brawl but I just can't. I won't give up yet but it's looking grim. I got all the characters and played around with it.. but at this point i'd rather practice against a level 1 comp in melee than play brawl online, its just more fun. I'm pretty sure anyone who devoted alot of time to mastering melee and actually getting good can relate to this feeling. I know bunch of bad players will come into this thread saying stuff like "omg go back to melee with yur wavedash haxors" and **** but whatever.


anyone else feel this way?
I tried really really hard to like it, but failed. :( I just get so bored so fast. pikachu is almost tolerable, but not quite. :( Btw, i'm talking about competitive play, its deifntley fun with some buddies with items and stuff on FFA's for a good amount of hours.
 

Kirby M.D.

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Messages
320
The f*ck does this have to do with Tactical Discussion? Seriously, why is this here? No, there are many kindred spirits here, the GD boards would be right up your alley.

EDIT: Not flaming, just wondering why OP had the urge to post this here instead of the GD. And then flip out to someone else's flipping out.
 

Devotion

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
157
Location
Jackson, NJ
One of these topics again -_-. I don't get why people can't learn to just not flame and complain to each other over brawl and melee. Just play the game you like more, you don't have to come online and tell people that you hate brawl or hate people who prefer melee.
 

`Jammin' Jobus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
489
i swear you guys are crazy..

no other forums care so much about trolling or posting something in not the exactly right place. It doesn't matter that much, please breath. I was expecting people to hate on me... its a **** internet forum for christ sakes. I just respond, thats what you're supposed to do. Nobody is forcing you to open up the thread. Just let whoever wants to, to have their little discussion... thats the point yo.

a forum is an assembly for open discussion. say what you want, i think we're all old enough to not have hurt feelings. If I seem upset, im not, you're temperment radar is off.

btw I posted it here because the tactical aspect of the game is really the only reason i cant enjoy it.
 

pankuma

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
2
what pisses me off from brawl is everything has delay on it shields punches priority is ******** i hate that too ike's like full shield swing (c stick) pits ability to piss everyone off with spamming lucario.... i hate lucario... i want to shove him in a blender... id rather mewtwo than that load of junk i really hate all pokemon cuz of him. And thats about it ohh and the ******* that go online with like dialup connection
 

Picitt

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
130
I understand the point of view of the people who dislike Brawl and prefer melee. We all had incredibly high expectations for Brawl and it was almost certain that some would be disappointed. Some things such as tripping and incredible ledgegrab range are annoying and downgrades from melee but the new Characters and Stages are also excellent additions. The speed is slower and many people are not going to like this. Some will prefer the speed and intensity of Melee and others won't.

I for one think that Brawl is alot quicker than people make it out to be and that it is a ton of fun. I see a ton of characters being played and every match is exciting to watch. I remember trying to watch VOD and seeing only 4 characters total in every single game and hating it. I do not think that Brawl will every reach the tech level of melee and that overall it will be a much much different game.

My advice is for those who dislike Brawl to give it a bit of time and if it doesn't grow on you then you can go back to melee. You will surely have company and you shouldn't feel obligated to switch. But at the same time there is no need for everyone to post that they hate Brawl and that it sucks and is so slow. It doesn't help anyone and no one is forcing you to play. They are two different games and they will have different player groups and of course a good amount of overlap. Stop complaining and play whatever game is the most fun for you.(This is not directed at the OP but rather at all who have made these posts)
 

GLCH

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
122
Location
Madison Heights, MI
Cons

1. Tripping
2. Floaty
3. Slow
4. Easy
5. Sweet spot every time
6. Crazy recovery
7. Not a lot of Technique
8. Bad dash dance
9. No Wavedash
10. Balanced

Pros

1. Better Graphics
2. More to unlock
3. New characters
4. New stages
5. Stage builder
6. N00bs can play
7. Ken Combo still there
8. Online play
9. New plot
10. Balanced

Melee is better but I'm going to play both
 

R.Y.N.O

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Messages
202
Location
VA
Cons

1. Tripping
2. Floaty
3. Slow
4. Easy
5. Sweet spot every time
6. Crazy recovery
7. Not a lot of Technique
8. Bad dash dance
9. No Wavedash
10. Balanced

Pros

1. Better Graphics
2. More to unlock
3. New characters
4. New stages
5. Stage builder
6. N00bs can play
7. Ken Combo still there
8. Online play
9. New plot
10. Balanced

Melee is better but I'm going to play both
I agree with tripping and it being slow but what are all those other things about. Balanced is only a pro because they have to rely on the skill of the player not the character. Not a lot of technique should not be in that list. We got the game a week ago. You cna't possibly hope to find EVERY tech in a week, 3 week, or even 3 years!! Wave dashing should not be on there. That is the same as saying "Welp ahh, Link's spin attack can't spike anymore, guess uh, Melee is better." You can't base pros and cons off of your own opinion. Floaty and crazy recovery may be bad for you and good for others. I would put more but I have to go. Remember, think about what EVERYONE would think. Not just you. See Ya bro. :cool:
 

jdub03

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Messages
334
Location
Roseville, MI
Do you have good players to play with offline. Online really sucks. Its just to laggy to do it any justice. Luckily I have two brothers who are good.
 

OrlanduEX

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
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That depends on how much you enjoyed and depended on using the two main techniques that were removed from Brawl, namely Wavedashing and L-Canceling.

I LOVED Super Smash Bros. 64, and always felt that it was the better incarnation of the two games. L-Canceling and Teching were easy as hell, and I like the way items are thrown in 64 as opposed to Melee and Brawl (Link was my favourite character in 64 despite his low tier-rating, because I could use bombs to do tons and tons of damage, as well as setting up combos and playing mind games, and I couldn't do that at all in Melee, Brawl has brought back my love of bombs though with the new knock-back mechanics). But once I got used to Melee's speed, and stopped accidently Air-Dodging while trying to L-Cancel (a habit from mashing Z over and over again to Z-Cancel and tech in 64), it really stuck to me. Then I discovered wave-dashing, and my opinion changed. I'd always felt that L/Z-canceling was a bit of a broken mechanic in the game and was indeed an exploit, easy to pull off and fair for sure, but an exploit all the same. Wave-dashing was the same thing for me, but a bit more tricky. Now, wavedashing is an obvious unintended effect in the game, and was never meant to be used in the manner competitive players were using it. On the one hand, it can be argued that techniques like WaveDashing help ALL characters, but in reality it only gives Top Tier characters more options than they already have. I used Wave-Dashing as a necessity to compete against good players, but I've never enjoyed it as a game mechanic.

Brawl has removed Wave-Dashing, which is a great thing in my mind, but also taken out L-Canceling, which, while still an exploit along the same lines as Wave-Dashing, I actually have always liked, but eventually it ended up feeling like a mandatory button-press after each move. The trade-off for no L-Canceling is less lag on really bad moves like Link's Dair, and no lag-time at all for other moves, meaning L-Canceling isn't needed for most moves, so the mandatory button-press is gone. Now, some moves still have bad ground-lag, but I view that as a balancing agent, and as long as I know which moves have lag and which ones don't, you can incorporate that knowledge into the metagame. The tradeoff for Wave-Dashing is the ability to FSmash (or any other move you want, for that matter) out of a quick-dash, which was essentially the best use for Wave-Dashing in Melee other than spacing, which can be done just as easily with basic walking/dashing/running anyway. We're also able to air-dodge multiple times in the air, and there's a dodge that hovers right above the ground (think it's down then shield? Or is just jump then dodge right away... It's in my muscle memory, not my actual memory LOL) that gives you a few frames of invincibility, so I think the tradeoff is fair in that regard too.

In the end, if you were attached on those techniques as a means to enjoy the game, you're going to be disappointed with brawl. But if you can understand that the game is more balanced because of these removals, and that you now have to be good at the game rather than relying on L-Canceling and Wave-Dashing to get a step above the people in your crew who don't know how, and once you realize that the game can be just-as, if not even more exciting with the new mechanics, you should be able to get over your misgivings and enjoy Brawl, just not until your initial attachment to WD and LC fades away.
*sigh*

First of all, l-cancel is not an exploit. It was programmed into the game and works the way it was intended.

Second, wave dash and l-cancel made Melee more balanced, not less.
Sheik, Fox, Marth, Falco, and Peach would still be top tier in Melee if their was no l-cancel wavedash.
But guess what. Mid to low tier characters like C.Falcon, Luigi, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Mewtwo and others would be even more helpless than they are now if they didn't have ;-cancel and wave dash to improve their mobility.
In Brawl, there is nothing to allow a slow guy like Ganondorf to compete with fast characters like Pit and Marth.

Third, there are plenty of people who didn't use wave dash and l-cancel in Melee who dislike the way Brawl has changed.

It's sad to see so many people get b!tchy every time someone says that they don't like Brawl or that they don't like an aspect of Brawl. It's like everyone is supposed to love it. Otherwise, you are "playing it like Melee" or "you can't play without your advanced techs" or some other BS.
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
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Playing Melee
I sorta felt like that and I think it has to do with your character and controller style. I started out with Link like in melee and used the GC controller. It was fun but after a little bit became annoying and a little frustrating. So I decided to experiment with the controller and I absolutely love the wiimote and nunchuck. The only thing I changed about it was making down on the D pad as jump. But it made the game so much more fun. Then I also discovered PIT and now the game is really cool.

But the important part was switching controllers. I convinced my friend to do the same and we felt the same way. No comparison.

(A secondary function of this is that I won't be as confused going back to melee since it will be a different controller!)
 
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