"Altogether for a chain attack!"-Shulk combo thread

[Zacko]

Dthrow>Fair kill confirm option near ledge http://webmshare.com/jBEG8 This is pretty interesting. I show that Dthrow>Fair>Fair>Airslash has the ability to seal a stocks fate (I did screw up the timing on the first dash>fair, but I show it connects in the 2nd part). They only have one chance to dodge it, and that is after the first Fair. If they do dodge it, I show that you can still get back to stage making this a pretty solid way to close out a game/stock.

Good job on these gifs!
The Dthrow>Fair>Fair>Airslash combo is basically a safer version of the combo used at 3m40s in this video:

I'll definitely try it out.

 

[Berserker.]

At 34%, you can combo buster f-tilt off from buster d-throw on Bowser

Will try this on other characters

Edit:

Bowser (34-42%)
Donkey Kong (33-47%) ~ Thank his hurtbox

Yep. Just them

 

[Berserker.]

N-air -> D-air (At jump art)

Did it on Mario and Marth at 55%. It gimped them. Lol


@ Nammy12 can you try this out in a GIF? If you have the time. Thanks :D

 

[Nammy12]

N-air -> D-air (At jump art)

Did it on Mario and Marth at 55%. It gimped them. Lol


@ Nammy12 can you try this out in a GIF? If you have the time. Thanks :D

I'm kind of confused at that combo, is it fastfall nair into offstage dair, and does Mario have to be by the edge?

 

[Berserker.]

I'm kind of confused at that combo, is it fastfall nair into offstage dair, and does Mario have to be by the edge?

Yep. FF N-air then off-stage d-air.

 

[erico9001]

N-air -> D-air (At jump art)

Did it on Mario and Marth at 55%. It gimped them. Lol


@ Nammy12 can you try this out in a GIF? If you have the time. Thanks :D

I'm kind of confused at that combo, is it fastfall nair into offstage dair, and does Mario have to be by the edge?

Yep. FF N-air then off-stage d-air.

The practice mode does not register it as a true combo unless you get the first of the two Dair hits on Mario. I got it to work twice out of many tries, and I still don't see how to execute it so that it is true combo. I think as you Nair you need to have a lot of horizontal speed, Nair with a FF...

Oh I just figured it out. You need to use Nair as late as possible before you hit the ground so that you can be up by Mario in the air as quick as possible for that first hit of the Dair.

I actually pumped Mario's damage up to 70% to see if it was easier. Idk, it may have been a tiny bit, but it still worked at least.

It still works at 80% but it's just as tight. I'm not getting the meteor smash though, so you might as well go for the easier Nair -SH-> Fair combo at this high of damage. Although, I do get the meteor smash if I do not do it perfectly and it does not register as a true combo.
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New post:
Oh hey, Nair -> Dash -> Fair registers as a true combo. I haven't gotten exact percents, but I can at least confirm it works on Mario at 55% and at 80%. Have not tried any other percents. Actually, at 55% you don't even need to dash.

Oo, I just did Nair -> Dash -> Dair and it came up as a true combo too! I have not been able to recreate it though (or at least with it saying it's a true combo)

 

[Nammy12]

Yep. FF N-air then off-stage d-air.

Finally managed to get it. (I really need to practice my FF Nairs)

 

[DrShankums]

Nice find on the dair combo, can't wait to add that into the rotation. I wonder at what % it works in speed mode. Also, I've added buster nair> ftilt/smash to my other post.

 

[erico9001]

Nice find on the dair combo, can't wait to add that into the rotation. I wonder at what % it works in speed mode. Also, I've added buster nair> ftilt/smash to my other post.

The Speed mode percent is similar to the Jump mode's percent. Treat Monado Speed full hop ~ Monado Jump short hop. You just need to cover the lesser Air Speed with a bit of dashing.

 

[Berserker.]

In jump art, n-air (Land with the initial hit box AKA: Back hit) into rising b-air. If you combo Mario at 90% off the edge with reverse n-air to b-air, this kills him. This is in the 3DS version btw

So... FF Reverse n-air -> Rising b-air. I got it to work at lower %'s but for now, @ Nammy12 do it at 90% against Mario for me?

 

[Masonomace]

Sup, I see that Shield doesn't have combos listed, although for good reasons due to Shield's decreased stats all greatly hindering its potential to combo. Despite this, I'm working on a little project with Shield mode anyhow & will contribute any combos I find. But spoilers, you're probably going to be seeing a lot of Dash attack in my findings, because let's face it, Dash attack with Shield on is amazing.

 

[erico9001]

Well here's an easy to execute true combo. Monado Jump: U-throw -> Air Slash. It works against characters who fall faster. Theoretical basis for this combo is that the fall speed does not effect the length of distance a character is sent while in that animation where no action can be performed (preventing air dodges etc). Knockback effects this, but fall speed is an outside factor.

DI plays a huge factor in this combo. There are many cases where if the opponent does not DI, he will not be effected by this combo and therefore it is not a true combo. Furthermore, opponents' DI usually make the combo work for much greater percents. For consistency, I am only listing the percents for no DI. For this reason, in actual gameplay this combo has wider ranges of use.

---If the opponent DI's towards you, he will end up behind you, in which case you must reverse air slash (there is enough time to realize and react to their DI in this situation).
---(same issue as DDD) is a situation where the game is saying that the combo broke between the first and second strike of Air Slash, even though the second hit still landed. I'm unsure of if this is a mistake or if there actually is a way for the opponent to get out of the combo at that point.

Fox: 82-93%
King DDD: Only works if he DI's (roughly 85-128% if he does DI)
Falco: 83-87%
Greninja: Only works if he DI's
Monado Jump Shulk: 84--99%
Captain Falcon: 96-110% (really messy testing... can work as early as 71% if opponent DIs forward apparently).
Diddy Kong: 89-97%
Sheik: 85%
Little Mac: 77-93%
Mega Man: 85-102%*
Zero Suit Samus: 71-78* 79-110% (later percents can kill!)
Ganondorf: 90-111%*
Meta Knight: Only works if he DI's
Donkey Kong: 103%*
Ike: 88-101%*
Rob: Only works if he DI's
Wario: Only works if he DI's
Bowser Jr.: 95-105%*
Duck Hunt: Only works if he DI's
Link: Only works if he DI's
Lucario: 92-102%*
Lucina: 87-93%
Marth: 87-93%
Pikachu: Only works if he DI's
Dark Pit: Only works if he DI's
Bowser: Only works if he DI's
Seemingly everyone else (Mario, Shulk, Jiggs, Charizard are what I tested): Only works if they DI or does not work at all

If there is a * next to a percent (for instance with boswer jr.) it means the combo counter does not recognize the first and second strike of air slash as comboing even though they do hit. For Mega Man, at the lower percents he can input down right after the first strike of air slash to avoid the second, but at higher percents he is still hit. ZSS cannot drop out using this method, but it still claims the two strikes do not connect together.

I list/test the characters in the order of their fall speeds according to this:
http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-aerial-speed-list-horizontal-fall-and-fastfall.382495/

 

[Nammy12]

In jump art, n-air (Land with the initial hit box AKA: Back hit) into rising b-air. If you combo Mario at 90% off the edge with reverse n-air to b-air, this kills him. This is in the 3DS version btw

So... FF Reverse n-air -> Rising b-air. I got it to work at lower %'s but for now, @ Nammy12 do it at 90% against Mario for me?

Something like this?

 

[erico9001]

Something like this?
View attachment 36256

Oo, *Riki getting excited!!* When I read Berserker's post, I had no idea this was so easy to execute. Also, it has such a wide range that it works! Against Captain Falcon, I got it to true combo as early as 50% and as late as 140%. And that's with using my 3ds/tap jumping. I didn't try anything lower or higher, so the range is probably larger.
>At high percents you need to full hop rather than short hop.

More testing brings me to find that this also works in Monado Speed. To a slight extent it works while Vanilla Shulk, but it's the weak hitbox of Bair that lands. This also means that it works in Monado Smash and in Buster at certain percents. Smash I was able to get to work at 50% against C. Falcon. Buster worked at 160% and actually did kill despite the weak hitbox.
---
Also, while in Monado Speed you can use a different combo. Use the Nair (seems like it does not have to be backwards), dash at the opponent, and Air Slash into him. Some characters may require you to jump before doing Air Slash for the two strikes of the move to hit.

edit: Something you can do with falling Nair -> rising Bair is have Monado Smash activate after the Nair so that you hit them with the Bair while in Smash and at kill percents. I don't have the skill to pull that off though.

 

[Masonomace]

Some Training Mode Shield stuff.

Shield | N-air (Blade = 4.9%) » D-tilt (Blade = 6.3% or Beam = 4.9%) = 9.8% – 11.2%
(Note: You may have to FF the N-air along with drifting toward them to land slightly closer so that the D-tilt connects favorably at a higher percentage. At early percent it may vary between casually drifting your SH to N-air or just FF the N-air.)
The best result is Short Hopping, drift slightly forward & immediately FF downward with the N-air to a landing D-tilt.

Mario: 0 – 29%
Luigi: 0 – 27%
Peach: 0 – 10%
Bowser: 0 – 33%
Yoshi: 0 – 19% (Despite Yoshi being a heavy character, he's quite floaty when launched from N-air, so rely on F-tilt at early % too)
Rosalina & Luma: 0 – 3% . . . (You obviously don't want to rely on this versus her. Instead, rely on N-air to F-tilt at early %)
Bowser Jr.: 0 – 26%
Wario: 0 – 35%
Donkey Kong: 0 – 33%
Diddy Kong: 0 – 29%
Mr. Game & Watch: 0 – 25%
Little Mac: 0 – 27%
Link: 0 – 33%
Zelda: 0 – 19%
Sheik: 0 – 31%
Ganondorf: 0 – 33%
Toon Link: 0 – 25%
Samus: 0 – 12% (N-air to F-tilt works better after you can't string N-air to D-tilt anymore)
Zero Suit Samus: 0 – 28%
Pit: 0 – 31% (This is a good result!)
Palutena: 0 – 28%
Marth: 0 – 25%
Ike: 0 – 34%
Robin: 0 – 28%
Duck Hunt: 0 – 22%

It feels like I've been practicing how to FF N-air in Shield mode for 2 hours, my goodness.

 

[Berserker.]

Just a note about N-air -> F-air -> Air slash

You can extend the maximum percentage by full hopping+rising f-air then air slashing. Try it on Mario

 

[Gionni]

This is one good combo thread, thank all of you for the work you've done, i will try to help too. Shulk is such a complicated character, and all the combo's variation that he has are a test of that

 

[Berserker.]

Help is very much welcomed here

 

[Gionni]

Help is very much welcomed here

I can see why, I'll try

 

[erico9001]

Could someone test Uthrow -> Air Slash against a human playing DDD and see if there's anyway he can get out between the two air slash hits?

 

[Masonomace]

Could someone test Uthrow -> Air Slash against a human playing DDD and see if there's anyway he can get out between the two air slash hits?

Does this involve any MArts?

 

[erico9001]

Does this involve any MArts?

Oh, yeah, Monado Jump. I have the percents above. The combo counter claims DDD can get out between the first and second hit of air slash.

 

[Masonomace]

Oh, yeah, Monado Jump. I have the percents above. The combo counter claims DDD can get out between the first and second hit of air slash.

So I'm attempting this in Training Mode, & I'm now looking at your percents from above & wondering how you got U-throw > Air Slash to connect on DDD

When I U-throw > Air Slash in that percent range in 1/4x speed, DDD clearly cannot act out of the 1st hit of Air Slash, but I can't hit the DDD with the 2nd hit unless he's DI'ing at a favorable angle (more in front of us). When I have the DDD DI behind our U-throw, we can read that & pivot our grounded Air Slash to hit him both times before he can act out of it.

I'm confused as to why the combo count doesn't recognize that it's not a combo. *shrug*

EDIT: I find that U-throw > U-tilt is working on DDD more than Air Slash, especially with all the different MArts & percentages we can do. . . =Q

 

[erico9001]

So I'm attempting this in Training Mode, & I'm now looking at your percents from above & wondering how you got U-throw > Air Slash to connect on DDD

When I U-throw > Air Slash in that percent range in 1/4x speed, DDD clearly cannot act out of the 1st hit of Air Slash, but I can't hit the DDD with the 2nd hit unless he's DI'ing at a favorable angle (more in front of us). When I have the DDD DI behind our U-throw, we can read that & pivot our grounded Air Slash to hit him both times before he can act out of it.

I'm confused as to why the combo count doesn't recognize that it's not a combo. *shrug*

Hmm, let me check it out. I started the percents for Dedede on the 3ds with the CPU set to wait, and I thought I double checked it on the Wii U set to control.

Oh yeah, looks like I must have gotten distracted. My bad, Dedede needs to DI forwards or backwards for the combo to work.

Could you try it on Mega Man? He has the same thing going on (you won't have issues doing the combo on him though)

Oh, and with DDD you can make the combo work if you do the mostly upwards version of Air Slash. This is often the case for people who only work with DI

 

[Masonomace]

Could you try it on Mega Man? He has the same thing going on.

Mega Man gets the stain from the U-throw > Air Slash combo dealing 17.5% with Monado Jump on. He doesn't have the DDD problem where DDD naturally was bopped away from the 1st hitting Air Slash, instead Mega Man without DI is naturally being hit & launched more upward, which strings the 2nd hit nicely.

The combo count recognized that U-throw to the 1st hit of Air Slash was a 3-hit combo, but it resets back to 1-hit combo when you use the 2nd hit of Air Slash. So weird.

EDIT: If Mega Man DI's behind us, pivoted grounded Air Slash will connect. If Mega Man DIs forward, meh we still get the Air Slash.

 

[erico9001]

Mega Man gets the stain from the U-throw > Air Slash combo dealing 17.5% with Monado Jump on. He doesn't have the DDD problem where DDD naturally was bopped away from the 1st hitting Air Slash, instead Mega Man without DI is naturally being hit & launched more upward, which strings the 2nd hit nicely.

The combo count recognized that U-throw to the 1st hit of Air Slash was a 3-hit combo, but it resets back to 1-hit combo when you use the 2nd hit of Air Slash.

So weird.

It makes me wonder if it's possible for the opponent to fast fall or air dodge out of it between the two hits of air slash. I'd have a hard time testing it myself though.

 

[Masonomace]

It makes me wonder if it's possible for the opponent to fast fall or air dodge out of it between the two hits of air slash. I'd have a hard time testing it myself though.

If the Mega Man player holds down on the analog during the 1st hit of Air Slash, they can escape the combo. However, this is actually because of Air Slash going too high when in Jump mode. I try the exact same thing with or without DI, & they can't avoid the Vanilla U-throw > Air Slash at that percentage range. So I don't mean to discredit Jump mode's combo potential, but in this situation the increased height to Air Slash is hurting us more than it is Mega Man.
...
I guess the combo count knows all.

 

[erico9001]

If the Mega Man player holds down on the analog during the 1st hit of Air Slash, they can escape the combo. However, this is actually because of Air Slash going tbeoo high when in Jump mode. I try the exact same thing with or without DI, & they can't avoid the Vanilla U-throw > Air Slash at that percentage range. So I don't mean to discredit Jump mode's combo potential, but in this situation the increased height to Air Slash is hurting us more than it is Mega Man.
...
I guess the combo count knows all.

Hmm interesting. Well that inputting down at the first trike of air slash does work for low percents, but it seems to me it does not work at 102% on Mega Man even though the combo counter still screws up. I don't think it works on ZSS when she's at 71% either (which has same issue). I think I can probably delete the (same issue as DDD) tags and put a * instead with a note at the bottom.

 

[Berserker.]

Also, I've found that after you do the second Fair you can often easily connect that into an Air Slash! Nair -> Short hop then Fair quickly -> second jump -> Fair -> Air Slash

Confirmed

It happens here

 

[TWILTHERO]

Is there a specific timing for Speed DThrow > FAir? I can get it -sometimes-, but half the time, it doesn't seem to register as a true combo.

Really liking and learned a lot from this thread btw. Shulk's combo game isn't as limited as I thought!

 

[DrShankums]

Is there a specific timing for Speed DThrow > FAir? I can get it -sometimes-, but half the time, it doesn't seem to register as a true combo.

Really liking and learned a lot from this thread btw. Shulk's combo game isn't as limited as I thought!

the timing takes a little practice, but it'll be second nature soon enough. It all depends on their %, check my post at the bottom of the first page, there's a video there. Just practice it in training mode until you get it down.

 

[Berserker.]

I've been very busy with a lot of things. I'll continue with the chart soon.

 

[Scarhi]

I was messing around in Training Mode and I found that Nair -> Bair (front hit) is a true combo on Mario at 72% with no DI.

I also found that at 73%, you can Buster FF Nair -> Cancel buster mode (press B 3 times very quickly) -> vanilla Fsmash on Mario. (3-hit combo in Training mode) The timing is pretty tight, though.

Unfortunately, I probably won't have time to test the complete % ranges for these anytime soon, but I'll try messing around a little more with Buster FF Nair -> Cancel buster mode, I'm sure we can find some pretty awesome followups :D

Edit : Buster FF Nair -> Cancel buster mode -> vanilla Air Slash confirmed (tested on Mario at 80%)
Buster FF Nair -> Cancel buster mode -> vanilla Ftilt confirmed (tested on Mario at 100%)
Btw after reading berserker's post about FF Reverse Nair -> rising Bair, I tried it out and it seems that we can also land with a standard Nair and simply RAR the Bair (the timing is harder though. I managed to do it on Mario at 90%. Still a true combo in training mode)

 

[Berserker.]

Ty to @Jerm for this

D-throw to air slash in buster works. Idk how this slipped off our minds. Lol. D-tilt and air slash come out both at frame 10 so this makes sense

 

[erico9001]

We keep saying not to use Buster early on against heavy characters. We can true combo DK from 0-13% and Bowser from 0-23% with D-throw -> Jab combo for 27% damage. Does not work against DDD, Ganondorf, Mario, Ike, Fox, fox... Seem like only these two characters... but worth knowing if you get a grab on them within those percents.

Ty to @Jerm for this

D-throw to air slash in buster works. Idk how this slipped off our minds. Lol. D-tilt and air slash come out both at frame 10 so this makes sense

Hey, this is like an improved version of D-throw -> D-tilt against DK. Starts at 16% and ends at 53% (d-tilt ends 32%). This won't always be the case, though. Mario's percent is 28-35%.

 

[Masonomace]

So this is a very tiny contribution, but it's something nice for the Bowser & Donkey Kong MUs:

Buster | D-throw (4.2% / 5.6%) » Jab combo (4.9% / 4.9% / 7.42%) = 27.02%

Bowser: 0 – 23%
Donkey Kong: 0 – 13%

 

[erico9001]

So this is a very tiny contribution, but it's something nice for the Bowser & Donkey Kong MUs:

Buster | D-throw (4.2% / 5.6%) » Jab combo (4.9% / 4.9% / 7.42%) = 27.02%

Bowser: 0 – 26%
Donkey Kong: 0 – 13%

Didn't you see my post o.o?

We keep saying not to use Buster early on against heavy characters. We can true combo DK from 0-13% and Bowser from 0-23% with D-throw -> Jab combo for 27% damage. Does not work against DDD, Ganondorf, Mario, Ike, Fox, fox... Seem like only these two characters... but worth knowing if you get a grab on them within those percents.
Hey, this is like an improved version of D-throw -> D-tilt against DK. Starts at 16% and ends at 53% (d-tilt ends 32%). This won't always be the case, though. Mario's percent is 28-35%.

I don't see how you're getting Bowser at 26%, though. That must be a mistake.

 

[Masonomace]

Didn't you see my post o.o?

I don't see how you're getting Bowser at 26%, though. That must be a mistake.

When I was doing the testing in 1/4x speed, I was able to get Bowser combo'd by Buster D-throw > Jab combo until 27% which is when Jab-1 whiffs. I'll re-test this but I was pretty sure it was 26%. I'll edit this soon.

EDIT:

So I learn that it's harder to string D-throw > Jab-1 under 1x speed due to me trying to time the jab, but all we have to do is mash A to Jab-1 asap & we'll still get it connecting. The result for me is the same regardless of 1/4x speed or 1x speed. 0 - 26% is the range.

 

[erico9001]

When I was doing the testing in 1/4x speed, I was able to get Bowser combo'd by Buster D-throw > Jab combo until 27% which is when Jab-1 whiffs. I'll re-test this but I was pretty sure it was 26%. I'll edit this soon.

EDIT:

So I learn that it's harder to string D-throw > Jab-1 under 1x speed due to me trying to time the jab, but all we have to do is mash A to Jab-1 asap & we'll still get it connecting. The result for me is the same regardless of 1/4x speed or 1x speed. 0 - 26% is the range.

I don't get it to connect at 26% even if I buffer the jab or am in 1/4x speed mashing. Same for 24%. Still is consistently 23% for me.

I'm really wondering why we're getting different values. Umm I'm on FD against Bowser as Shulk...

I'm using wii u pro controller. Latency can't be the issue though because I don't get it to work even at 24% in slow-mo.

Do you have the latest patch?

-

Hey @ Berserker. I'm 10 characters into testing D-throw -> Air Slash right now, and I've found that the combo counter is usually wrong on the lower percents. In reality, the opponent can't do anything while still in the air and then when they hit ground it's the matter of if they hit the ground soon enough for them to get their shield up. I'm finding many of the bottom percents to actually be 0%, and this often the case for D-tilt as well. For instance, Paulutena is 0%.

 

[Masonomace]

I don't get it to connect at 26% even if I buffer the jab or am in 1/4x speed mashing. Same for 24%. Still is consistently 23% for me. I'm really wondering why we're getting different values. Umm I'm on FD against Bowser as Shulk...I'm using wii u pro controller. Latency can't be the issue though because I don't get it to work even at 24% in slow-mo. Do you have the latest patch?

I have the latest patch yeah, v1.0.2 for WiiU. If it means anything (I don't think it does) I'm using the Gamecube adapter & I've been testing it on FD too.