"Altogether for a chain attack!"-Shulk combo thread

[Sonicninja115]

Spoiler: list of patch

Shulk got a ton off buffs. To Dtilt Utilt and damage buffs to combo aerials. Dtilt is up by .5 percent as well as almost everything else. This should increase the hitstun and allow more and better combos.

 

[kenniky]

uair hit 1 --> land --> utilt/Air Slash hit 1 is a true combo. Works at almost any percent because uair is fixed knockback I think

There may be difficulty landing the second hit of Air Slash because the opponent ends up above you

 

[Sonicninja115]

uair hit 1 --> land --> utilt/Air Slash hit 1 is a true combo. Works at almost any percent because uair is fixed knockback I think

There may be difficulty landing the second hit of Air Slash because the opponent ends up above you

It is possible to drift back on the second hit of AS, this might make it easier.

 

[Masonomace]

Uair first hit > Air Slash is an entire set knockback moment. So you have to juggle the decision of whether that'll be a good idea on the right character & depending on your accumulated Rage effect.

 

[Masonomace]

So uh. We have a true combo on Limit Break Cloud.

Disclaimer: Training Mode
Monado Smash Uthrow > Air Slash = True combo on Cloud with Limit Break
-If he doesn't DI, then you can true combo him from 9 - 43% if you do nothing & spam UpB. If you want to extend it to 44%, you must remain facing forward while drifting your Air Slash backward upon the rising first hit.
-If he DI's straight up, then it's the same is if he doesn't DI.
-If he DI's from the front, then you can true combo him from 9 - 47% if you hold Air Slash toward him.
-If he DI's behind you, then you can reverse Air Slash to true combo him from 9 - 43%.

We can get a free edgeguard setup or force a doublejump with this.

Disclaimer: Training Mode
Monado Jump Uthrow > Air Slash = True combo on Cloud with Limit Break
-If he doesn't DI, then you can true combo him from 40 - 108% if you do nothing & spam UpB or drift it backwards upon the rising first hit.
-If he DI's straight up, then you can true combo him from 40 - 109% if you drift your Air Slash backwards upon the rising first hit.
-If he DI's from the front, then you can true combo him from 40 - 111% if you hold Air Slash toward him.
-If he DI's behind you, then you can true combo him from 47 - 109% by reversing Air Slash regardless of whether you drift backwards or not.

 

[FOcast]

This sick string was just posted on reddit:

Clearly cloud could've spotdodged on getup or delayed his jump after the Dair to avoid dying, but has anyone labbed on that Jump Utilt -> Footstool part? If that's even close to guaranteed, then it's an amazing combo setup, given how most people want to jump after an Utilt.

 

[Masonomace]

This sick string was just posted on reddit:

Clearly cloud could've spotdodged on getup or delayed his jump after the Dair to avoid dying, but has anyone labbed on that Jump Utilt -> Footstool part? If that's even close to guaranteed, then it's an amazing combo setup, given how most people want to jump after an Utilt.

Utilt > footstool at that percent is not true, unless Cloud's weight + fall speed really makes it that bad for him. I'd rather think it's more convincing if his Limit Meter was filled so that he had higher fall speed to make it more true. People I play in local tournaments always jump away or airdodge to avoid my followup but they also weren't playing as Cloud so perhaps.

 

[Masonomace]

Despite that customs don't get acknowledgement nowadays, Decisive Jump & Hyper Jump extend the combo of Uthrow > AS at the later percents. So as an example, if Jump art Uthrow > AS worked until 110%, Hyper Jump art Uthrow > AS extends it to 120%. Moving on back to Jump art Uthrow > AS.

Disclaimer: Training Mode
Monado Jump Uthrow > Air Slash = True combo on Jigglypuff
-If she doesn't DI, then you can true combo her from 45 - 63% if you do nothing & spam UpB. To extend it to 64%, you must drift your Air Slash backwards upon the rising first hit.
-If she DI's straight up, then it's the same as if she doesn't DI.
-If she DI's from the front, then you can true combo her from 45 - 67% if you hold Air Slash toward her.
-If she DI's behind you, then you can true combo him from 45 - 63% by reversing Air Slash regardless of whether you drift backwards or not.

Grab release > Air Slash = True combo on Jigglypuff?!
Grab air release into Air Slash true combos on Jigglypuff also. . I think. Double checking for confirm would be nice. And I don't have kill percentages yet, but in Training Mode, a Jigglypuff getting grab released into Hyper Smash Air Slash near the ledge (near the ledge meaning Jigglypuff stood at the start of Training Mode & I ledgeroll onstage & turn around to grab) dies at 57% with the best possible DI, which is holding diagonally down & towards the stage. That's CRAZY for a true setup.

 

[erico9001]

so we have a lot of work to do with our lowered landing lags.

 

[Berserker.]

I'm suspecting that n-air > n-air > f-air > f-air miiight be a thing but I don't know. I'm trying to make it work. I've only made it "work" with speed art so far. N-air > foot stool, although it may or may not be a true combo, can happen quite often every now and then. Seems like a decently reliable set-up

 

[Masonomace]

So Idk about you guys, but the 0.5% damage buff to Vanilla & Jump, 0.4% buff to Speed, 0.35% buff to Armour, 0.7% buff to Enchant, & 0.25% buff to Smash could make all of our previous combos either better or worse. Better because landing lag reductions, yet worse because damage slightly increased may launch them slightly too far out of our reach we could before with tilts or aerials. It's mixed to me but I'll worry about my end of Nair to FAir Slash stuff later.

The damage buffs favor mostly tilts but aerials feel iffy to me atm based on the tournaments I've been attending this past January. Probably just me.

 

[Zethoro]

So I've noticed the talk about 1st hit UAir to things and I'm wondering; did the landing lag buff make a notable difference to that? Can he get a guaranteed turnaround grab off of the reverse hit?
Things like that.

 

[Grexin]

So I've noticed the talk about 1st hit UAir to things and I'm wondering; did the landing lag buff make a notable difference to that? Can he get a guaranteed turnaround grab off of the reverse hit?
Things like that.

from what I know uair to things have existed forever so I don't believe it made an effect.

 

[Zethoro]

from what I know uair to things have existed forever so I don't believe it made an effect.

I know, I'm asking if it made anything else into a true combo.

 

[Masonomace]

Uair being set knockback that only increased by 0.5% intrigues me if it even made any hitstun difference, but I doubt it. I didn't really touch back into Uair first hit setups, but the 2 frame landing lag reduction could really help make it easier with the previous things done before:

-Turnaround Jab depending on your Rage
-Ftilt
-Utilt
-Uncharged Fsmash angled up
-Uncharged Usmash
-Air Slash
-Footstool setup
-Turnaround grab / pivot grab in place

Maybe a Short Hop + aerial can be followed up, such as SH Nair for the best-case example due to quickest frame data.

 

[Zethoro]

Uair being set knockback that only increased by 0.5% intrigues me if it even made any hitstun difference, but I doubt it. I didn't really touch back into Uair first hit setups, but the 2 frame landing lag reduction could really help make it easier with the previous things done before:

-Turnaround Jab depending on your Rage
-Ftilt
-Utilt
-Uncharged Fsmash angled up
-Uncharged Usmash
-Air Slash
-Footstool setup
-Turnaround grab / pivot grab in place

Maybe a Short Hop + aerial can be followed up, such as SH Nair for the best-case example due to quickest frame data.

I was mostly asking because of the landing lag reduction, yeah, but this is just the answer I was looking for. Thanks!

 

[erico9001]

Uair combos:

Monado Jump Uair second hit -> Uair (first or second hit) seems much, much better now. You don't even need the MALLC anymore. Works from a huge range of percents. Just for example:
Mario: 7-88%

This is if he's on flat ground with you, though. The combo does not work nearly as well or at all if the opponent is on a platform or just in the air above you, and you land on the ground below him. This makes sense though - more distance you have to jump and cover in a short amount of time. When they are hit, the farther the opponent is above the ground you are going to land on, the harder it is for this to true combo. It may still true combo if they are above the ground, but that is more likely if they are at a lower percent damage.

Monado Jump Uair second hit -> jump -> Air slash is true

Monado Jump Uair second hit -> Fair is true

Monado Jump Uair second hit -> Bair is true

Uair -> Naar...

Hell, Monado Jump Uair second hit -> Dair spike is even true now. If they miss the tech, they CAN air dodge before your air slash, so there are no true follow-ups.

You don't even need to be in Monado Jump to get these to work if the opponent is at low enough percent.

Uair -> U-tilt seems about the same. Works at 0% like usual.

So in other words...
If you get an Uair second hit on a grounded opponent while in Monado Jump, you better do something with it.

-----------------------------------------------------

Fair?

Testing things out on ROB for starters. All these so far require you to be at max air speed in the direction they are being hit towards.

Ah! I'll be damned. Fair (base) -> jab combo at 0%.

Fair (base) -> U-tilt at 30%

Monado Speed (max air speed) Fair -> Dash -> Fair at tested percents 65% and 80% (does not work at 60% or 90%)
Who are we, Sheik? Just kidding, it only works for a fine line of percents and the third Fair will not be true, even if you MALLC the first one.

Fair (land) -> Fair also works a similar percents in Monado Jump.

Jump Reversed back hit Fair -> Bair is working for me from the 80-100% range about

-

Alright, I'm back. I have been trying to test the Uair -> footstool combo used in the following video, but I suck at footstooling, apparently.

If Uair -> Dair is true, it would not surprise me if Uair -> footstool is true. However, can somebody confirm or deny this?

 

[DarkenedHalo115]

Okay,don't know if this is already covered or something but I've been able to confirm bair and fair into multiple fairs and train them across the screen in jump and speed art.So

Bair->MALLC(Jump or speed) get the intial dash,fair,fair and sometimes you can airslash to finish of.I can seem to get this pretty reliably on real opponents and in when done near edge can be a potent kill(confirm?)You can MALLC into buster and shield and smash but obviously the mobility arts are best for fair train,although I have managed the buster train at high percents.Haven't done training mode stuff but since IMA be stuck for 2 days,I'll keep ya posted

Edit-Its a true combo.Bair/fair MALLC can chain into more fairs.Only DI away from Shulk can escape from more than one fair but if you manage to catch them with another fair they'll be sent pretty far.Pretty relaible to still catch DI away while in jump.

 

[Masonomace]

Sorry fastfallers, but you're going to get exposed by the Monado's power today!

DISCLAIMER: TRAINING MODE<-----------------

Patch 1.1.4 翔(Jump) Up throw > Air Slash

No DI: Don't do AS

DI'ing away: 48% - 82%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: Don't do AS
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

No DI: 44% - 117%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 44% - 124%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: 44% - 124%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

No DI: 71% - 77%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 68% - 84%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: 73% - 80%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

No DI: 55% - 125%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 54% - 123%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: 56% - 127%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

No DI: 48% - 97%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 48% - 100%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: 48% - 97%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

No DI: 39% - 105%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup. It's optional, but recommended.

DI'ing away: 39% - 105%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: 40% - 105%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.
BONUS: Extend the starting range to 38% by Reversing AS & then drift backwards during the startup.
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

No DI: 52% - 84%. Stay towards them but start drifting backward during the startup.

DI'ing away: 49% - 90%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: 49% - 90%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

No DI: 49% - 79%. Stay towards them but start drifting backward during the startup.

DI'ing away: 49% - 84%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: 49% - 80%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

No DI: 50% - 53% & 57% - 73%.
BONUS: This is when you do not drift backward or forward whatsoever.
NOTE: 54% - 56% does not work if you drift backwards, forward, or don't drift at all. Because of Bat Within airdodge, she avoids AS1 during this small percentage range.

DI'ing away: 50% - 68%. Hold towards them.
NOTE: From 49% & below, her Bat Within from her airdodge avoids AS1. From 69% & beyond, she can Bat Within airdodge after AS1 to avoid AS2. From 81% & beyond, she can straight-up Bat Within airdodge to avoid AS1.

DI'ing behind: 57% - 65%. This is done when you Reverse AS & hold towards them.
BONUS: Extend the ending range to 75% if you Reverse AS & then drift backwards during the startup.
NOTE: From 66% to 79% you'll hit with AS1 but her Bat Within airdodge avoids AS2 no matter if you drift or not. From 80% & beyond, she can mash Bat Within airdodge to avoid AS1 no matter if you drift a direction or not.
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
1.1.4
No DI: 73 - 80%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 50% - 85%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: 50% - 83%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

No DI: 53% - 86%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 53% - 90%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: 53% - 86%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

No DI: 49% - 83%. This is doing nothing & going straight-up. You can either do this or drift backwards during the startup.
BONUS: Extend the ending range to 84% by staying towards them but start to drift backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 49% - 85%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: 49% - 82%. This is done by just Reversing AS & holding towards them.
BONUS: Extend the ending range to 84% by Reversing AS, then drift backwards during the startup.

 

[Mr Melo Yellow]

I had a quick search and couldn't find discussion on this. Correct me though if this has already been talked to death.

As we know, b-throw into back slash while in buster is a great way to tack on loads of damage. At higher percents, it can punish tech in places as well if read. The only real shortcomings of it are properly done techs and DI-ing away at higher percents.

HOWEVER, what once was just a semi-reliable way of doing big damage, becomes a very early kill setup when you use buffered art deactivations.
Buster b-throw > BAD > back slash kills in the 60s when near ledges (something that almost always happens after the b-throw)
While it does rely on missed techs, the reward seems too big for this string to pass up. Because of this, I'd argue Shulk mains should be using this in place of just regular buster back slashes a lot more

 

[Masonomace]

DISCLAIMER: TRAINING MODE<-----------------

翔(Jump) Up throw > Air Slash

Patch 1.1.5 since her weight was reduced from 84 > 81

No DI: 69 - 79%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 49% - 84%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: 49% - 81%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.

 

[Masonomace]

DISCLAIMER: TRAINING MODE<-----------------

翔(Jump) Up throw > Air Slash

Theme: Hard MatchUps? Will either edit or post another one.

without Luma or if Luma isn't nearby (because hitlag is your bane)

No DI: 61 - 63%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 54 - 67%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: 53 - 67%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

No DI: 69 - 72%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 69 - 70%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: 69 - 74%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

No DI: 47 - 107%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 46 - 111%. Hold towards them.
NOTE: To extend the early percentage range to 39 - 103%, just input UpB & don't move the Air Slash & mash B. LOL

DI'ing behind: 39 - 108%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.
NOTE: To extend the early percentage range to 37 - 101%, you reverse AS & then start drifting backwards during the startup. To extend the early percentage to 38 - 109%, you reverse UpB & don't move the Air Slash & mash B. LOL
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

No DI: 63 - 94%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 59 - 101%%. Hold towards them.
NOTE: It's more wise to start from 63% rather than 59%, as your AS1 rising hit will knock Ryu up higher to string into AS2 better.

DI'ing behind: 59 - 97%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
Because yesterday was St. Patty's Day.
No DI: 69 - 74%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 61 - 76%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: 69 - 78%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.

 

[Jalil]

DISCLAIMER: TRAINING MODE<-----------------

翔(Jump) Up throw > Air Slash

Theme: Hard MatchUps? Will either edit or post another one.

without Luma or if Luma isn't nearby (because hitlag is your bane)

No DI: 61 - 63%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 54 - 67%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: 53 - 67%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

No DI: 69 - 72%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 69 - 70%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: 69 - 74%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

No DI: 47 - 107%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 46 - 111%. Hold towards them.
NOTE: To extend the early percentage range to 39 - 103%, just input UpB & don't move the Air Slash & mash B. LOL

DI'ing behind: 39 - 108%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.
NOTE: To extend the early percentage range to 37 - 101%, you reverse AS & then start drifting backwards during the startup. To extend the early percentage to 38 - 109%, you reverse UpB & don't move the Air Slash & mash B. LOL
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

No DI: 63 - 94%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 59 - 101%%. Hold towards them.
NOTE: It's more wise to start from 63% rather than 59%, as your AS1 rising hit will knock Ryu up higher to string into AS2 better.

DI'ing behind: 59 - 97%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
Because yesterday was St. Patty's Day.
No DI: 69 - 74%. Stay towards them but start drifting backwards during the startup.

DI'ing away: 61 - 76%. Hold towards them.

DI'ing behind: 69 - 78%. Reverse AS & hold towards them.

Really appreciate all the work!
It looks like around 60 is a good percent to go for up air throw to air slash on every character if you don't remember exact percents.

 

[Berserker.]

Thread OP has been updated. I'll update the numbers/percentages soon

 

[Masonomace]

Basically finished every character's true combo percentage ranges with Jump art Uthrow > Air Slash. However, I won't post all of it here as it's already in my Notepad & on @GetShulked 's google document. I suppose I can re-test the percentages I have posted in here, because that Puff post definitely has incorrect ranges for Jump art Uthrow > AS. But yeah. . .

Reyn: Cheers!

EDIT: PSA: Jump art Uthrow > Air Slash BODIES

 

[Disappointed Donger]

Is it wrong for me to not like true combos? They come down to muscle memory and the opponent can't do anything about it, when it gets started you know what's going to happen, it's not particularly exciting thinking "yep, and there he goes for that same true combo we've seen in dozens of other matches".

Edit: Crap, does this count as a necro? Sorry if I did do that.

 

[Masonomace]

Is it wrong for me to not like true combos? They come down to muscle memory and the opponent can't do anything about it, when it gets started you know what's going to happen, it's not particularly exciting thinking "yep, and there he goes for that same true combo we've seen in dozens of other matches".

Edit: Crap, does this count as a necro? Sorry if I did do that.

A question to your questions: Is playing a character with little few true combos a bad thing overall?

Shulk isn't a combo-based character. Combos to Shulk are not necessary, but it sure does feel good to actually perform true things & get guaranteed damage from it.

 

[Disappointed Donger]

A question to your questions: Is playing a character with little few true combos a bad thing overall?

Shulk isn't a combo-based character. Combos to Shulk are not necessary, but it sure does feel good to actually perform true things & get guaranteed damage from it.

No, true combos are not necessary to beat your opponent and make watching the match less exciting. Characters should have less true combos, really.

And that's why Shulk is my main, he doesn't have true combos for free damage but with skill can do some serious damage and is very versatile.

 

[Masonomace]

No, true combos are not necessary to beat your opponent and make watching the match less exciting. Characters should have less true combos, really.

And that's why Shulk is my main, he doesn't have true combos for free damage but with skill can do some serious damage and is very versatile.

You may be right in that true combos aren't necessary, but guaranteed damage is still more advantageous in your favor than riding on 50/50 guesses most of the time with a character like Shulk having a lot of a mix-up game.

And Shulk does have true combos, but only a few of them. Some of them aren't easy to perform like other characters that have very easy-to-do true combos, but for Shulk, I'll take what I can get.

 

[Disappointed Donger]

You may be right in that true combos aren't necessary, but guaranteed damage is still more advantageous in your favor than riding on 50/50 guesses most of the time with a character like Shulk having a lot of a mix-up game.

And Shulk does have true combos, but only a few of them. Some of them aren't easy to perform like other characters that have very easy-to-do true combos, but for Shulk, I'll take what I can get.

I'm not saying true combos should be removed, but I feel there should be less of them. Pretty much all the top tier characters have quite a few true combos, and they aren't all that difficult to pull off. It's not about whether or not they're better performance, but rather more involved gameplay.

If there are any true combos for him, I don't consciously use them. It's both more fun and more skillful to get in your opponent's head and do mix-ups and reads.

 

[SiLVeR2420]

Wow. You put a lot of work into this guide. And it is very accurate. Very good guide.
Descriptive, but doesn't tell if it works on or off stage. 9.5/10