SpaceDong
Smash Cadet
Lucas would probably be able to still make it back though, and if a Lucas is using PK Thunder chances are he's too deep for Fox to FF Fair :/ that tether saves him
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
"Experience" is not 7:3 without proper explanation of the MU. That's the equivalent of saying ZSS vs Mario is 7:3 for ZSS just because V115 beat Ally at EXP.70-30 Ryu I 2-stocked an Ontario ranked player in the matchup just 'cause of how good it is for Ryu. Experience always does the talking for me.
Yeah I agree. Kirby got the most benefits out of all the cast, along with Bowser. Holy crap, Bowser's U-throw is so so stupid now, he still has trouble catching Fox but if he does it's not fun.I think it would be a good idea to look at kirby when we switch to the new set of characters. He got a LOT of buffs, and I'm seriously wondering if Kirby beats Fox now. I had a rough time dealing with a pocket Kirby this weekend. He's one Ohio's best and didn't go Kirby until I shut down his mains. Kirby kills soooooooo early now with Upthrow, and he also has faster movement speed and increased hitstun on his fair, among other minor changes.
As you can see, there are a ton of knockback growth buffs in there. The buffs kirby got allow him to close distance quicker since he has faster running speed, and it makes approaching him much more dangerous. Increased hitstun on fair means he's going to be throwing them out more neutral, and that if you run into one he has more followups. Lastly, and probably most scary, Kirby has a powerful kill throw now, probably top 5 in the game. It has a huge increase in KGB from 63-74. Thats a ~17% increase in KGB. Be very wary of platform stages now vs him, especially Town and City, Halberd, and Delfino. Watch for the tree on Duck Hunt as well.
- Ground run speed increased
- F-Smash (all angles)
- Early Hit KBG 99 -> 100
- Late Hit KBG 66 -> 67
- U-Smash
- Early Hit KBG 102 -> 103
- Middle Hit KBG 96 -> 97
- Late hit KBG 50 -> 51
- D-Smash
- KBG 108 -> 109
- Fair
- Hit 3 KBG 145 -> 148
- Hitlag modifier 1.0x -> 1.2x
- Bair
- Early Hit KBG 102 -> 104
- Late Hit KBG 110 -> 112
- U-throw
- KBG 63 -> 74
- Side Special 1 partial charge
- KBG 70 -> 76
- Aerial hitbox 0 (both hits) size 5.2 -> 5.4
- Aerial hitbox 1 (both hits) size 3.0 -> 3.2
- Both sets of hitboxes active for 1.0 -> 2.0 frames
- Side Special 1 aerial max charge
- KBG 70 -> 76
- Aerial hitbox 0 (both hits) size 5.4 -> 5.6
- Aerial hitbox 1 (both hits) size 3.5 -> 3.7
- Both sets of hitboxes active for 1.0 -> 2.0 frames
- Side Special 2 partial charge, 1/3 max charge
- KBG 70 -> 76
- Side Special 2 aerial
- KBG 100 -> 110
- Hitbox 0 (both hits) size 5.2 -> 5.4
- Hitbox 1 (both hits) size 3.0 -> 3.2
- Both sets of hitboxes active for 1.0 -> 2.0 frames
- Side Special 3 partial charge
- Aerial KBG 70 -> 76
- Hitbox 0 (both hits) size 6.3 -> 6.5
- Hitbox 1 (both hits) size 3.0 -> 3.2
- Side Special 3 max charge
- Aerial KBG 70 -> 76
- Hitbox 0 size 6.0 -> 6.2
- Hitbox 1 size 3.0 -> 3.2
It's basically. Forcing the kirby move and pop lasers at him. U get close but can still keep distance and pop lasers when u have opening. People under rate lasers. They are useful u need to know when to use them and when not to. But they need to be mixed up in gameplayJust one quick question. When you say you were camping out the Kirby, how did you camp him out if he could just crouch your lasers? Did you just refuse to stop shooting until he moved?
I really don't have a problem with approaching Kirby. Think its in fox's favor but of course it depends on how ur play style is with fox. Just don't be predictable. Don't get caught in his dair+any move combos. And if u are at low %s stay away from his utilt. Use speed and agility to maneuver around him and have to be smart about punishes. don't jump up in the air if u know he is gonna hit u. The lasers are great against KirbyAlright, from what I noticed this weekend, Kirby is a lot harder now. I thought pre-patch Kirby was a so-so matchup for fox, being even, and maybe even fox losing on some stages. All of the things that he had pre-patch on Fox are still there, inlcluding:
-Great combos on Fox
-Dair completely wrecking Fox's recovery and being near unpunishable.
-Being able to completely shut down Fox camping with his crouch.
Before I continue, here is the list of changes Kirby got, taken from the patch thread:
As you can see, there are a ton of knockback growth buffs in there. The buffs kirby got allow him to close distance quicker since he has faster running speed, and it makes approaching him much more dangerous. Increased hitstun on fair means he's going to be throwing them out more neutral, and that if you run into one he has more followups. Lastly, and probably most scary, Kirby has a powerful kill throw now, probably top 5 in the game. It has a huge increase in KGB from 63-74. Thats a ~17% increase in KGB. Be very wary of platform stages now vs him, especially Town and City, Halberd, and Delfino. Watch for the tree on Duck Hunt as well.
Granted, Kirby will need to play really, REALLY lame to win, but at the same time you will too, as its not safe to approach him most of the time. Expect this to be one of the least enjoyable matchups to play as Fox. There's a good chance you will be pushing the time barrier a lot of the times. None of the matches I won as Fox vs Kirby this weekend were fast. I was camping my rear off.
I had the % lead. In theory, if he has the percent lead there's nothing you can do really except try to drop off stage and shoot a laser along the ground (if it even reaches). Otherwise you're forced to approach. Maybe not immediately, but you will have to eventually. Camping doesn't necessarily equate to shooting lasers either. It also means refusing to engage them and moving around them/playing keep away, trying to bait an approach.Just one quick question. When you say you were camping out the Kirby, how did you camp him out if he could just crouch your lasers? Did you just refuse to stop shooting until he moved?
Specify please; what move would you use? where would you hit Ganon?I have a friend who has played little mac and ganon against me as his go to friendlies characters, and I'd honestly say ganons recovery is worse than lil macs. Once you convince ganon that using up b to recover bellow the stage is a good idea, he's toast because up b doesnt really cover above him. If it's clear that his side b is no longer and option to recover, dropping down above ganon with a move that sends him away from the stage will almost always finish him.
LOL@Ganon having good grab range.-Ganon's grab range is good enough...