After 1600 DDD games, dropped him. He's not good enough.

[Karthage]

This is a whine thread. I'm mad salty and sad about how much time I invested into this character.

He can't challenge most characters in the air because his aerials come out super slow except for nair, but nair's hitbox is way to small to challenge aerials.
He can't challenge any character at a range because of the absolutely moronic decision to have gordo bounce back at him
I recently learnt how awful his close range ground game was against opponents who just short hop everything.
He can't punish air dodge like other characters either, where they can throw out aerial after aerial, forcing the air dodge AND punishing the air dodge with 2 quick aerials, DDD has no such luck.

He's got terrible matchups against half the cast, and most of those are the better half. I just can't main a character like that.

He's INCREDIBLY good against bad players.
He's INCREDIBLY bad against good players.

It feels like maining donkey kong in SSBM or something, there's too many weaknesses to exploit.

If gordo was a normal projectile, he might be good, but in it's current state DDD is just a big fat combo practice target that can't match the better characters at anything.

 

[-Jax]

Currently, I've moved to playing Dedede, Samus and Palutena if I want to have fun, their personalities and playstyles are just too much of a match with what I want out of characters.

I'm using Rosalina & Luma and Duck Hunt Duo if I want to win. Both characters that I like even more in playstyle, but are just much more frustrating for the opponent to play against so I only drag them out if it's time to get serious.

Overall, I'm pretty happy the characters I like most are evenly divided between tiers in this game. Let's me pick one dependent on how my opponent is performing.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Sorry to hear that you are discouraged. But I think this is going to be an permanent issue with not just Dedede, but large characters overall in Smash games. They are the easiest to combo and they most of the time are the ones with slow and punishable attacks.

As for me, I have tried to attempt other characters who should be better in paper. But I think I played too much DDD already and Im too comfortable with him. I even prefer him to Bowser (the favorite one of heavyweights) because of his better range, recovery and projectiles.

I could see myself playing other characters if I feel I'm getting countered (should mention that Dedede DOES NOT benefit from the campy meta of FD stages in For Glory), but I think I have higher in my priorities winning with the character I like than becoming a top Smash player.

P.S. you should ignore my Sonic flairs, I really main the king a lot more than the hedgehog these days.

 

[T4ylor]

You simply dropped him, because you weren't good enough. I doubt you'll be successful with any character. Negativity won't help advance a character's meta, so please lock this thread.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

You simply dropped him, because you weren't good enough. I doubt you'll be successful with any character. Negativity won't help advance a character's meta, so please lock this thread.

Uh, King Dedede has some pretty obvious flaws in his tool kit if you've spent any meaningful amount of time with the character. I'm personally still sticking with him for the moment since he's my favorite and definitely the one I perform the best with, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be better off dropping him in favor of, for example, my Yoshi I currently have in the pocket.

Pointing out your character's flaws is more worthwhile for the meta than thinking everything is sunshine and rainbows, anyways (even if Dedede is already perfect). And all of the flaws pointed out here are true of the character, and they happen to make him perform poorly in the current For Glory meta. I can't say how well he'll do with extra stages to work with, but I've found he has some trouble maneuvering around platforms, so it's entirely possible he'll be weak there also.

 

[-Jax]

You simply dropped him, because you weren't good enough. I doubt you'll be successful with any character. Negativity won't help advance a character's meta, so please lock this thread.

Funny how you're complaining about negativity... This is one of the most uncalled for and vile posts I've read on these forums.

 

[Wiley]

If you are using a gordo when it can be knocked back at you, you're not playing D3 correctly in my book. Why everyone thinks that move is a standard projectile is beyond me at this point... It's not. You know full well it can be slammed back into your face.
So only use it as an extension punish when on stage. use it to make life more difficult while edgeguarding, use it to bait them (not in range sometimes and then mix up to the face from far away, you can always air dodge) when trying to recover from high off stage. But DO NOT use it when facing someone in neutral positions on stage as if you're causing them trouble like you would with any other projectile. If you trained yourself to do this because it worked on inexperienced players, I'm sorry... but that's on you to patch up at this point.
Nair's hitbox is fine to me, but don't abuse it. Just learn what beats it and use it accordingly.
His throw game is still strong and combos easily at least once. So that should be used if you are having such trouble up close like you're saying, it's still got a decent reach too. I've seen him used well in tournaments and I use him in ways that I find fun so there must be something up on your end that could be ironed out. Sorry if this isn't a happy go lucky post, but it's not the greatest thread to begin with.

Dedede deserves more respect than this. >:C
It's been somewhat known he wasn't top tier off the bat, but these are the struggles of playing characters like this. You can become better than others with the hard road you've picked but don't dog the character, dog yourself, for thinking you had what it took to play this character at the high level, and then giving up on him. It shouldn't have taken 1600 matches to realize what you got yourself into, I'm sorry. If you want to be band wagon, read my mind who you should be playing... I don't even have to say a fighter and I bet you could answer the top 3 i'm thinking in 5 guesses. Some people can make D3 work. Obviously not every MU is going to be in your favor, but such is the case with a lot of the roster tbh.

I'm not catering to whining, sorry.

 

[Ganreizu]

they happen to make him perform poorly in the current For Glory meta

perform poorly in the current For Glory meta

For Glory meta

You just lost all of your credibility. Play 1600 games in local wii u environment and then say DDD sucks.

 

[Wiley]

You just lost all of your credibility. Play 1600 games in local wii u environment and then say DDD sucks.

for someone so fancy with quotes, you kind of missed your target D:
Keith didn't state he played 1600 games or say DDD sucks, scroll up.

 

[Jabejazz]

You just lost all of your credibility. Play 1600 games in local wii u environment and then say DDD sucks.

No idea what you're going for here.
Anyway, we all knew about TripleD's weaknesses, and we'd knew he'd have incredibly tedious matchups.

That it took you 1600 games to realize he definitely was going to struggle to make it to the top, I'm kinda speechless.
Best of luck in your quest to find your main.

 

[Karthage]

No idea what you're going for here.
Anyway, we all knew about TripleD's weaknesses, and we'd knew he'd have incredibly tedious matchups.

That it took you 1600 games to realize he definitely was going to struggle to make it to the top, I'm kinda speechless.
Best of luck in your quest to find your main.

I kept trying to stick it out, to find where I was going wrong.

It wasn't worth it. The character simply lacks the tools necessary for many matchups, and is reduced to getting lucky with hard reads.

 

[Wiley]

This thread is silly. GL

just remember,
Amsa plays to win.

 

[Powda]

Not much but my 2 cents.

I've played roughly 500 games for glory and honestly when I run into a good Sheik, I feel like I'm playing pong and she's playing battlefield 3. I've got a joystick and she's got 40 buttons and 5 joysticks.

I have a 72% win percentage on for glory so I'm not complaining but there are those top 15 characters where you just feel the painful reality that your disadvantage isn't your play-style or control, but the slowness of your character. I gotta say though, I love the chain grab, I pull it off every match now, except against a few top tier characters.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Comparing Dedede to Melee Donkey Kong is pretty ludicrous, Melee DK only has two or three good attacks, a horrendous recovery, and the nature of Melee punishes big targets way more than in this game, Dedede at least has many more useful tools than that.

Dedede is fine, he's not among the greatest, but he's still fine, definitely not one of the worse characters like you make him out to be.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Dedede is a bit unbalanced I think. it has some very strong sides and some are very weak.
Anyway, I think that the best matchup for Dedede is Kirby. I'm a Kirby main and Dedede is one of the characters that give me more problems. I learned that, against a good Dedede, the only weak spot is the 45° upper corner, and the character is so big, and has so big hitboxes, that hitting that spot requires at least 2 seconds of slowly flying around him, exploiting his lags. Shielding is impossible, when he uses the rotating hammer the shield will break most of the time. Dodging is even worse. Grabbing is very hard to do, since it requires time to approach, and he can stop my Kirby simply pressing A or B before I even reached him.

My fights against Dedede are usually very long, repetitive and boring, and often I lose due to the fact that he can kill me with 3 hits while I must hit him at least 20 times before hoping to even push him out from the stage.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

You just lost all of your credibility. Play 1600 games in local wii u environment and then say DDD sucks.

Sure, point me to the closest Wii U console that has Super Smash Bros for Wii U installed on it and I'll take you up on that offer.

The vast majority of our experience with a "competitive" ruleset in this game is going to be on For Glory, big shocker there. And D3 specifically has trouble playing on Final Destination- his only projectile is ridiculously easy to return to him, he has piss-poor air movement and laggy aerials, and doesn't have a viable method of approaching on the ground either. D3 definitely isn't the worst character in the game, but his bad matchups are really bad for him, and the current stage list of exactly one does nothing to help him out.

I mentioned the other stages could be better for him in the long run, but I've only played in one "tournament" so far (that was conducted over wi-fi) for this particular game, and I haven't been able to play very many people irl with the game.

Seriously though, I'll be the first to admit I'm kind of a scrub at the game, but I've at least been working with King Dedede as a character and finding out what moves work and don't work. It could be entirely possible my thoughts might change in the future if we find some random momentum glitch as Wario has or if Dedede consistently (and that's the key word here) performs well in a tournament setting going into the next few months of the game. Right now? He has very clear weaknesses that we currently don't have a way to address, and if you've spent any notable amount of time with the character, online or offline, you could see that for yourself. But it's easier to always blame the players when sometimes, it's actually the character that's not working out.

Or do you think Brawl Ganon players need to suck it up and get good?

 

[-Jax]

Not much but my 2 cents.

I've played roughly 500 games for glory and honestly when I run into a good Sheik, I feel like I'm playing pong and she's playing battlefield 3. I've got a joystick and she's got 40 buttons and 5 joysticks.

I have a 72% win percentage on for glory so I'm not complaining but there are those top 15 characters where you just feel the painful reality that your disadvantage isn't your play-style or control, but the slowness of your character. I gotta say though, I love the chain grab, I pull it off every match now, except against a few top tier characters.

I don't think for glory winrate means a lot, I've literally won games there using nothing else than grabs.

I think OP is looking for a character to use in competitive play, and I agree that there Dedede isn't going to be very viable because he has kind of negative matchups against the current perceived top tier. I feel Dedede is sitting somewhere comfortably in the middle, meaning there's matches where you'll feel he's strong, and matches where you feel like he's an amazing looking punching bag. If you're playing for fun this is completely fine, but honestly, if you want to play to win you're better off picking someone else than Dedede, unless we discover some really outrageous gapcloser.

Edit: I'm not addressing this part of the post directly to you by the way, just realized it kind of looks that way right now.

If you are using a gordo when it can be knocked back at you. You're not playing D3 correctly in my book. Why everyone thinks that move is a standard projectile is beyond me at this point...

That's not the problem with Gordos and you don't have to use them as a standard projectile to see there's a problem with them. The real problem is having a projectile, but being unable to ever use it against any projectile users because of it's bounce property. In Brawl the side-b was perfect for holding off campy players and projectile spammers, making it easy to approach them or even forcing them to approach you. The fact that Dedede got the most unreliable projectile in the game this time around gives him nothing to deal with characters that have a strong keepaway game anymore, which is why he has such a hard time against such a large part of the cast. Let me state it this way: if he had his old side-b, or the current one without the bounce, Dedede would be top tier. Right now he's missing a tool to help him stop campy/keepaway play, and it's making him a much less solid pick to main competitively, as you'll definitely need a secondary to accompany him.

So I guess the problem isn't the Gordo so much, but the frustration of having a move that's ALMOST the move Dedede needed to round out his toolset.

 

[FEFIZ]

DDD is good, but just good... I miss a good suicid, chain grab, wall grab, infinit grab, semi-infinit grab and his amazing bair... Not a very good or top tier char. I prefer Bowser over him, but they are my 2 mains in smash 4 until now.

 

[Wiley]

I've edited this post out. Please excuse this added space.

 

[popsofctown]

D3 is pretty terrible in this game. He needs the back air that was taken from him. His neutral is incredibly lacking without it.

D3 is a weak character, but lots of people know that. But I think furthermore he might be the kind of low tier character that feels really unrewarding to play, like Brawl Zelda, because he lacks a gameplan in neutral

 

[Jabejazz]

Your mom is low tier, come at me bruh.

 

[DrewMoney]

@Jax

D3's Brawl projectile was hardly this effective at landing kills, they have completely different properties and use... This is the addition of a ranged hit box that he didn't have before. It's huge. I know exactly what he lost and see what he gained, brawl was a defensive beatutiful army. Yes D3 has a really hard time with the campyness of the roster, I'm not denying that. So do a lot of heavies. I'm just talking about how one should and shouldn't use their side special, and on top of that why it's not as bad as it seems. Gordos are extended hit boxes that knock back harder than most non charged projectiles will ever hit. They can kill. Come on guys... If Gordos were what you all want them to be who wouldn't use D3? The way you stated it is the point I'm trying to make "makes them approachable" and that's you using them as a projectile. Stop doing that. If you use them as extension punishments or on hard reads they're what they should be... GORDOS. Do you remember seeing these in Brawl? They were like Peach pulling a bomb. His old side b is missed, and yet I strongly prefer the kill power potential of the new one. Not to mention it's a hammer swing as well :/ I've killed people plenty of times because I needed that particular hit box timing in the air.

It's an Ace card you hold onto, not something you spam. You need to use them wisely that's all. He was never meant to be a campy projectiler, he's a grappler/spacer and a float on top of all of that.

We've stated a lot of his problems, and I agree on a lot of his difficulties against the cast. But why bother comparing Gordos to projectiles when they obviously shouldn't be used the same way.

I appreciate your post on the King. Almost everything you have said is spot on; I usually do very well with lower players and have a hard time with high ranked/tier characters. I admit I spam the Gordos sometimes but also use them for mind games and edge guarding. I am still trying to figure out how to chain grab but I feel I use the King pretty well in close hand to hand combat. I plan on sticking with the King and Luigi for mains at his point because I have a lot of fun with them and the green machine is my boy. Unless they bring Poke trainer back. I am an old smash player and been playing since 64, and have been on the forums for awhile.. I took a few year break due to the drama and repetitiveness these forums had. Hopefully I can meet some cool peeps, get some good fighting buddies in and learn some more techniques to better my game.

 

[Wiley]

I appreciate your post on the King. Almost everything you have said is spot on; I usually do very well with lower players and have a hard time with high ranked/tier characters. I admit I spam the Gordos sometimes but also use them for mind games and edge guarding. I am still trying to figure out how to chain grab but I feel I use the King pretty well in close hand to hand combat. I plan on sticking with the King and Luigi for mains at his point because I have a lot of fun with them and the green machine is my boy. Unless they bring Poke trainer back. I am an old smash player and been playing since 64, and have been on the forums for awhile.. I took a few year break due to the drama and repetitiveness these forums had. Hopefully I can meet some cool peeps, get some good fighting buddies in and learn some more techniques to better my game.

Awesome to hear :] Welcome back! I'm new to the forums but I've been smashin since 64 as well (granted, I was 11 when it came out... but fun has been had the whole way through.)

You have honorable mains, both with such likable personality lol. Luigis are always fun to play against for me by default, just being on the screen. As you can see here D3 is not the easy road and some MU will be painful, so props for sticking to it, I'm keeping him on board as well. I don't keep a clear main, I am trying to master the roster a little at a time for counterplay and to find a true home, but he's top 3 most enjoyable easily so far. It's doubtful Poke trainer will be back with the removal of all the "switch out" specials but who knows, maybe squirtle/ivy will pop up again one day as DLC.

Best of luck on your return to the boards, hope the drama you saw has settled or vanished altogether and you can meet your goals with the site again :D

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Glad to see more people stick to the King rather than complain how bad he can be and run away to safer picks.

This morning I played against a pretty good Sonic player. It wasn't about how he beat me almost every time, it was about how frustrating it can be for a heavyweight to get juggled around; meanwhile, you can't just catch a such slippery fast character. But still, I kept using Dedede against him and I think I learned some stuff to use next time to make this match up easier on me (for example, jab attacks works great on stopping his spin dash shenanigans).

And if there is something to cheer on Dedede players, I'm thinking that the King works as a good counter to Rosaluma.

 

[DrewMoney]

Thank you, I have always liked him in Brawl but played more causal and for fun. With the new smash I'd rather pick a player who not many people know about so the victory is sweeter haha. Plus Dedede is way fun to use. Add me on if you'd guys like to play, I need some more practice with a few others. Ill post my code later.

 

[Jabejazz]

And if there is something to cheer on Dedede players, I'm thinking that the King works as a good counter to Rosaluma.

Fairly curious about this, if you'd like to share.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Fairly curious about this, if you'd like to share.

Well, for now I can say that Rosaluma's give me little trouble when Im Dedede compared to when Im other character. I would say that Dedede's big size and range allows him to always hit both Rosalina and Luma or at least the Luma off the stage. Down smash and Ftilt are always effective against them. And Gravitational Pull doesn't reflect, only absorbs. So I worry less about getting my Gordos thrown back.

My other piece of evidence is my friend who mains Rosaluma who says Dededes in general give him the most trouble. Maybe I can ask him how true is this.
And dont get me wrong, Rosaluma is probably still too strong and her possible bad matchup against Dedede is little compared to the bad matchup Dedede gets vs. Sonic, Zamus, Sheik and maybe others.

 

[ndayday]

If you're looking to win, I agree that Dedede won't be good enough. He's good, and has great moves, but as its been mentioned anyone with a projectile besides Fox and like, Sheik will absolutely destroy him. Mario decides he wants to short hop and full jump fireballs? Congrats, you now are doomed to a match where you have no options to approach and can't punish Mario on account of your terrible aerial mobility and the fact you're a blimp. Occasionally you'll be able to sneak in a ftilt or a jab, maybe an uptilt, but you will not win against a Mario that keeps you away with fireballs. Same with Toon Link and Link, Villager, and the rest of projectile characters may not be able to keep you away as proficiently but it is still a giant pain that forces you into the defensive.

and for the record no, that's not with using gordos as a neutral option :x

but if this is all wrong I'd love to see a case against it.

 

[Jabejazz]

If you're looking to win, I agree that Dedede won't be good enough. He's good, and has great moves, but as its been mentioned anyone with a projectile besides Fox and like, Sheik will absolutely destroy him. Mario decides he wants to short hop and full jump fireballs? Congrats, you now are doomed to a match where you have no options to approach and can't punish Mario on account of your terrible aerial mobility and the fact you're a blimp. Occasionally you'll be able to sneak in a ftilt or a jab, maybe an uptilt, but you will not win against a Mario that keeps you away with fireballs. Same with Toon Link and Link, Villager, and the rest of projectile characters may not be able to keep you away as proficiently but it is still a giant pain that forces you into the defensive.

and for the record no, that's not with using gordos as a neutral option :x

but if this is all wrong I'd love to see a case against it.

I will not say that it is wrong, just oversimplified. You make it sound one-sided as soon as the opponent has a projectile that doesn't deflect our gordo, which simply isn't true. A mere hindrance, in some cases, a war of attrition, elsewhere, a tedious case in others.

But I refuse to believe that any single matchup is absolutely unwinnable. At this point in time, nothing can convince me of this.

Our strengths are extremely polarized, that's for sure as it is the case with most heavy-weight/grapple-centric characters.

 

[Wiley]

People are so afraid of hit stun. You are super heavy, you can eat a few fireballs of damage in the long run if you can find a punish. (I am not saying get hit for the sake of getting hit... but it's not over until you're stockless) If you feel you've lost the game because any projectile connects, please let's not discuss this further and just don't play heavy characters because they're not your style, which is completely fair. I play a ton of ganon, and if people go super campy it's tedious, but shiek can fully charge needle twice and not do as much damage as 1 hit from ganon/other heavies. It's the trade off. If a short hop fireball is trumping you that badly in your books I dunno, don't play half the cast.

Side note: Mario's down throw combos are far more of a hassle to me as someone big and heavy than his fireballs which are mosquitos. But that's a fault of getting thrown in the early-mid %.

Sider note: I understand my responses have been somewhat defensive and stubborn, but I still can't stand this thread and what it stands for. It's bringing it out of me.

 

[Karthage]

The reason the hitstun is so bad is it gives the opponent free hitconfirms for their own approaches.

So your stuff is always forced to be hard reads while their stuff is confirmed off safe projectiles. Your forced to react with fewer frames to work with because you just finished blocking, eating, or jumping over a projectile.

This doesn't mean you can't win, it just means that you are in the horrible position of needing to outread the opponent significantly to win. When you are in that position, you don't win very often.

Most for glory opponents aren't good enough to do it, but that will slowly change and DDD is going to get progressively worse because of it. He doesn't have the run speed, aerial mobility, or projectiles of his own to minimize this kind of advantage.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Just remember that the For Glory meta favors any campy playstyle. Whether we like it or not, its what we get. And its the reason why platform stages became part of the tournarment ruleset. Doesn't make it a lot easier for characters without safe projectiles (or enough speed to close the gap) but it certainly helps.
Ya know, Im pretty sure there is at least a thread like this on most of the character subforums.

 

[ndayday]

Ok yeah I'm overexaggerating, but projectiles just suck for him. This doesn't mean that if you're playing something like Bowser the match-up is suddenly 100-0 in Dedede's favor, I know that there are all sorts of matchups scattered from easy to hard.

As well intentioned as it is, I can't understand the defense Wiley, sorry. even if you don't mean it your post reads as if you are assuming my idea of a game of Smash is Dedede going in and dodging everything and 3 stocking Mario, or that I think Mario will just jump and fireball the entire game, like c'mon. Of course normal Smash things will happen, it's not completely one-sided, but it's enough to one side where I feel I can say with confidence that Dedede against projectiles is not a fun time and is an uphill battle. Overall, from what what I've played and seen I lean more towards what Karthage is saying than the opposite.

like man I love Dedede and don't like these things but I still play him, and when I do win against spam I wanna rub it in their faces, but let's be real.

 

[Wiley]

The problem is, you're backtracking to something more reasonable. which is something I can agree with. It will be an uphill battle, but statements like
"If you're looking to win, I agree that Dedede won't be good enough." are absurd and terrible for new players, and veterans alike. I am tired of this argument. I am tired of you dampening the enjoyment of those around you. Most of this thread has been Gordo based bashing which just shows the level of play being targeted. I did my best to shed light on a few things, but I'm out.

Have fun with the hate fest. I'm not coming back to this toxic thread. Whining, inviting more whining. Bleh...

And please don't take this personally to anyone in here, I am just finished with the subject is all, and I think that's a fair place to be at this point :D

GL to those who continue to try him, and GL to those who decided he's not up to par for you, I hope you find a main that suits you. Bye

*can't help myself, Just watched the most recent Clash tournament interview and Nakat, a multiple tourney smash 4 winner including this one, and Gunblade stated D3 as a solid pick, and underrated. Not top 5 by any means but underrated. Just to put that out there, also give Vex's games with D3 a watch, he's who I was referring to in earlier posts.* ok now I'm really out of here D:

 

[Karthage]

The problem is, you're backtracking to something more reasonable. which is something I can agree with. It will be an uphill battle, but statements like
"If you're looking to win, I agree that Dedede won't be good enough." are absurd and terrible for new players, and veterans alike. I am tired of this argument. I am tired of you dampening the enjoyment of those around you. Most of this thread has been Gordo based bashing which just shows the level of play being targeted. I did my best to shed light on a few things, but I'm out.

Have fun with the hate fest. I'm not coming back to this toxic thread. Whining, inviting more whining. Bleh...

And please don't take this personally to anyone in here, I am just finished with the subject is all, and I think that's a fair place to be at this point :D

GL to those who continue to try him, and GL to those who decided he's not up to par for you, I hope you find a main that suits you. Bye

*can't help myself, Just watched the most recent Clash tournament interview and Nakat, a multiple tourney smash 4 winner including this one, and Gunbladed stated D3 as a solid pick, and underrated. Not top 5 by any means but underrated. Just to put that out there, also give Vex's games with D3 a watch, he's who I was referring to in earlier posts.* ok now I'm really out of here D:

I WANT to steer players away from DDD.

I spent over a hundred hours practicing with the character, trying to figure stuff out, and now I feel like all that time is basically wasted because the character has big, gaping holes where there should be tools.

Suggesting someone try DDD as a main, is, to me, a very cruel statement. It's wasting their time.

The reason so much of the thread is based around the gordo is because it's one thing that separates DDD from the other characters. If the gordo was usable in neutral, DDD would be great. Without it being usable in neutral, he's just a character with mediocre normals, useless B moves, and terrible mobility.

Why would I waste someone's time and tell them to try and work with a character like that, when there are over a dozen characters with much better tools overall, that don't suffer from the same crippling bad matchups?

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Why would I waste someone's time and tell them to try and work with a character like that, when there are over a dozen characters with much better tools overall, that don't suffer from the same crippling bad matchups?

Have fun? And remember that everyone haves fun in a different way. If you idea of fun is picking the best character and winning easy all the time. It doesn't mean everyone has to have fun the same way.
You, my friend, have forgotten what videogames are for. Geez, I think I'll be joining WILEY.

 

[ItoI6]

I WANT to steer players away from DDD.

I spent over a hundred hours practicing with the character, trying to figure stuff out, and now I feel like all that time is basically wasted because the character has big, gaping holes where there should be tools.

Suggesting someone try DDD as a main, is, to me, a very cruel statement. It's wasting their time.

The reason so much of the thread is based around the gordo is because it's one thing that separates DDD from the other characters. If the gordo was usable in neutral, DDD would be great. Without it being usable in neutral, he's just a character with mediocre normals, useless B moves, and terrible mobility.

Why would I waste someone's time and tell them to try and work with a character like that, when there are over a dozen characters with much better tools overall, that don't suffer from the same crippling bad matchups?

I think what you really need to do is pick a top tier for a bit. If you pick a top tier then you'll know if it's you, or if its the character that's holding you back. If you don't pick a top tier you'll never know, you'll never know if it was your own self imposed limit of choosing this character or if it was some other flaw in your game holding you back. So I say you should go for it. It'll be a lot of fun learning someone new and having more options.

I can tell that you really love dedede and you really want to make him work after 1600 games, and I want to tell you that it wasn't all wasted. If you play another character you might learn a different way of playing and gain a different perspective that will help your dedede grow better just by your general game knowledge increasing. If nothing else you at least have a great knowledge of the character so you can break him out in some matchups I guess.

Have fun? And remember that everyone haves fun in a different way. If you idea of fun is picking the best character and winning easy all the time. It doesn't mean everyone has to have fun the same way.
You, my friend, have forgotten what videogames are for. Geez, I think I'll be joining WILEY.

There are no players in melee or brawl who have ever or will ever win a national at this point in their respective metagames without a top tier character, because it isn't possible. It isn't a matter of "winning easy" all the time, picking a good character is just making it possible to win at all. Don't take me the wrong way by saying that there's a specific character that is that bad in smash 4 or that its dedede, I'm just saying that its pretty contemptible to tell this guy that his idea of "what videogames are for" is wrong, and that you are right because he doesn't share in your belief of intentionally handicapping himself. I myself find losing to be pretty not fun, but that's just me.

That said you won't find any love in a character forum by telling that their character is unviable and ****. There also isn't any need to be bitter and mad at this character. It's just another step down on the road. gl man

 

[HeavyLobster]

I WANT to steer players away from DDD.

I spent over a hundred hours practicing with the character, trying to figure stuff out, and now I feel like all that time is basically wasted because the character has big, gaping holes where there should be tools.

Suggesting someone try DDD as a main, is, to me, a very cruel statement. It's wasting their time.

The reason so much of the thread is based around the gordo is because it's one thing that separates DDD from the other characters. If the gordo was usable in neutral, DDD would be great. Without it being usable in neutral, he's just a character with mediocre normals, useless B moves, and terrible mobility.

Why would I waste someone's time and tell them to try and work with a character like that, when there are over a dozen characters with much better tools overall, that don't suffer from the same crippling bad matchups?

Just go play Sheik/Rosaluma like everyone else and leave the people who want to play Dedede alone. People play the game for different reasons, and not everyone needs to pick a character that can win EVO/APEX to enjoy themselves. I'm not anywhere near where I could win major Smash tourneys, so I don't worry about whether the characters I play can win them, and just go with what I enjoy. If you're seriously good enough to compete at the highest level you should probably pick a character that you feel can compete as well, but otherwise there's plenty of learning and growth available to those who pick a character that isn't quite the best.

 

[TKD]

You're insane. I don't know who you're losing to, but I reeeeally don't think it's DDD's fault. I'm surprised there were several mentions of Sheik. I'm pretty sure Dedede's one of her worst match-ups.

 

[Jabejazz]

You're insane. I don't know who you're losing to, but I reeeeally don't think it's DDD's fault. I'm surprised there were several mentions of Sheik. I'm pretty sure Dedede's one of her worst match-ups.

I'm glad you think that way. I've been saying this for a while to my group of friends, and I do believe TripleD is actually really good against Sheik. It does sound like a very bold statement, however.

There are no players in melee or brawl who have ever or will ever win a national at this point in their respective metagames without a top tier character, because it isn't possible. It isn't a matter of "winning easy" all the time, picking a good character is just making it possible to win at all. Don't take me the wrong way by saying that there's a specific character that is that bad in smash 4 or that its dedede, I'm just saying that its pretty contemptible to tell this guy that his idea of "what videogames are for" is wrong, and that you are right because he doesn't share in your belief of intentionally handicapping himself. I myself find losing to be pretty not fun, but that's just me.

Winning a national isn't necessarily the goal of everyone. It seems to be what OP is aiming for, and that's perfectly fine.

And you're right; a middle of the pack character (which is what TripleD feels at the moment) has very slim chances of making it far in a national tournament.

But that's it, he feels like an average character. We know his flaws, now is the time to see if there are any workarounds to this. And truth be told, you won't find these answers even after playing 10,000 matches in For Glory.

But you have to be aware that some people main a character for other reasons than winning a big tournament. Some just like to stick with characters they like, and push them to their absolute limits. Otherwise, Brawl Ganon mains wouldn't exist (shoutout to Verm).

Also, until I'm proven wrong, there are no unwinnable matchups in this game. Starting with the mindset that the character you're playing literally cannot win only helps in fueling this fallacy.