"Hey guys look at how cool I look by hating online play"
This kind of post should be prohibited in this board, it adds nothing to any discussion. Local isn't the only valid way of playing Smash.
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After 1600 DDD games, dropped him. He's not good enough.
- Thread starter Karthage
- Start date
This kind of post should be prohibited in this board, it adds nothing to any discussion. Local isn't the only valid way of playing Smash.
What I'm surprised about is that most you guys are adopting a policy of "let us have our OWN fun" instead of going ok yeah, these are his weaknesses so he probably isn't the greatest character to use in a situation where you want or need to win. This was never about anything but that, so statements saying that not everyone enters nationals don't really apply to anything here...I respect that and even fall into that group, but the OP is talking about his character in the grand scheme of large tournament play :/
I don't know how to say it without hurting feelings, but just because you have more magical believing power doesn't make Dedede a better character to play. Dedede is a character that has been given certain attributes and tools. To use an example, think of Dedede as a tube of toothpaste. You can squeeze the toothpaste out of him, and some exceptionally adept players will be able to squeeze more than others, but at the end of the day there's only so much to work with, and it's a smaller tube than something like Rosalina (at least, it's looking this way).
and I still stand by saying "If you're looking to win, I agree that Dedede won't be good enough" as that part still holds true. What I'm saying isn't pessimism or negative, it's realistic. I have never said that Dedede is bad, or terrible, or that no one should use him, but I agree that "he's not good enough."
I don't know how to say it without hurting feelings, but just because you have more magical believing power doesn't make Dedede a better character to play. Dedede is a character that has been given certain attributes and tools. To use an example, think of Dedede as a tube of toothpaste. You can squeeze the toothpaste out of him, and some exceptionally adept players will be able to squeeze more than others, but at the end of the day there's only so much to work with, and it's a smaller tube than something like Rosalina (at least, it's looking this way).
and I still stand by saying "If you're looking to win, I agree that Dedede won't be good enough" as that part still holds true. What I'm saying isn't pessimism or negative, it's realistic. I have never said that Dedede is bad, or terrible, or that no one should use him, but I agree that "he's not good enough."
Soul Train
Just laugh.
I have ridiculous fun playing Dedede. That's why I play him.
The fact that I win the most with him is just a bonus. /end personal smash philosophy
The fact that I win the most with him is just a bonus. /end personal smash philosophy
I appreciate the shoutout, Jabe. 
I feel I have something to contribute to this topic. As a Ganon main in both games, I understand, intimately, the frustration of feeling held back by a character. But one thing that I think would benefit any player is to, as difficult as it is sometimes, recognize that unless the MU is, as Jabe said, literally impossible, then this indicates room for improvement on your part. This doesn't mean you're not being held back, but it does mean that there's room for improvement, even if those demands far exceed those of other players.
Again, this doesn't diminish the frustration of the disparity in requisite skill levels to succeed, but all the same, it's an expectation I think any serious non-top-tier player should have.
I feel I have something to contribute to this topic. As a Ganon main in both games, I understand, intimately, the frustration of feeling held back by a character. But one thing that I think would benefit any player is to, as difficult as it is sometimes, recognize that unless the MU is, as Jabe said, literally impossible, then this indicates room for improvement on your part. This doesn't mean you're not being held back, but it does mean that there's room for improvement, even if those demands far exceed those of other players.
Again, this doesn't diminish the frustration of the disparity in requisite skill levels to succeed, but all the same, it's an expectation I think any serious non-top-tier player should have.
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Exceladon City
Smash Hero
Being a former Luigi main and a Rocket Raccon main in UMvC3, I can attest to this. I legit spent the last 3 years of Brawl's life span learning the ins and outs of Luigi's "OMG-Why-Am-I-Playing-This-Match-Up!?" match-ups. Sure, they are hard as hell, but that level of arduous training allowed me to figure out new ways to deal with MK, ICs, Snake and Dedede. Same applies for this character. He's a shell of his former chain-grabbing self, but the fun is learning to make Dedede a formidable character with the tools you're given. Sure, you played 1600 matches, but you should look at your win/loss ratio and see how many of those are losses. If your wins exceed your losses, you haven't been learning much. Sometimes, you've gotta lose 1600 matches before you see an improvement.
As a top d3 main in brawl, I've noticed some of the things you are talking of. DeDeDe is a solid character but because he is slow and hits hard, he requires extreme accurate execution to be effective. It is very difficult when playing **** like lil mac and diddy kong with d3. I have d3 as a secondary for now and diddy as a main. Against some other highly regarded players(anti's wiifit,xatlis' rosalina, and jtail's shulk..) dedede has proven to be very effective against certain mus moreso than diddy. But with that said, I need to wait till wiiU version to test dedede's true potential. One game changing mechanism is dedede's upair cg string or w/e u want to cal it which is incredibly hard to pull off with 3ds controls, and the other as you know is that his moves require precise execution as they aren't as fast as the other "top" tier chars.
As of right now though, I feel like dedede is around the same spot he was in brawl more or less.
As of right now though, I feel like dedede is around the same spot he was in brawl more or less.
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toadster101
Banned via Warnings
The more I use Dedede, the more troublesome certain matchups become. I'm finding it harder than ever to maintain my 80% win rate on For Glory. Dedede's biggest asset is also his biggest weakness; he's very easy to edgeguard. I feel like heavier characters struggle more than others in laggy environments because they often require an extreme amount of precision in order to use properly. Also, the circle pad is notorious for malfunctioning at the worst possible time, which is amplified even further by the fact that the game rewards camping. For Dedede users, accidentally doing a forward smash instead of a tilt has "doom" written all over it. And don't even get me started on the amount of times I haven't been able to perform a fast falling neutral air properly.
you act like hes the worst character in the game.
i play dedede fine, usually only losing when i slip up on my commands (think my dpad is skewed because i have issues with sideb/upb doing the one i didnt want to do).
Yes he has flaws. What character doesnt? Even mac has flaws, albeit virtually none theyre still there. I also play DK and hes regarded as pretty crap tier, generally have a good winrate with him. You learn to get around the flaws of your character so you can keep playing them. If all you want is a perfect, point-and-click to win character then youre playing the wrong game.
The Gordo is not an answer to everything. I use it sparingly because unless im against a terribad player they will ALWAYS knock it back in my face. Its a very good anti recovery or once in awhile mixup. And if it wasnt obvious, its terrible against any projectile spaming characters at a distance. Ive used it in melee range too, as if you time it right you smack them with the hammer and they fly into the gordo for a second hit.
If anything i'll keep playing Dedede for the sheer fact that meteoring people with his UpB is just hilarious. Sit on the ledge, if you time it right you will spike them as they approach and you will land normally. So funny when it works lol
i play dedede fine, usually only losing when i slip up on my commands (think my dpad is skewed because i have issues with sideb/upb doing the one i didnt want to do).
Yes he has flaws. What character doesnt? Even mac has flaws, albeit virtually none theyre still there. I also play DK and hes regarded as pretty crap tier, generally have a good winrate with him. You learn to get around the flaws of your character so you can keep playing them. If all you want is a perfect, point-and-click to win character then youre playing the wrong game.
The Gordo is not an answer to everything. I use it sparingly because unless im against a terribad player they will ALWAYS knock it back in my face. Its a very good anti recovery or once in awhile mixup. And if it wasnt obvious, its terrible against any projectile spaming characters at a distance. Ive used it in melee range too, as if you time it right you smack them with the hammer and they fly into the gordo for a second hit.
If anything i'll keep playing Dedede for the sheer fact that meteoring people with his UpB is just hilarious. Sit on the ledge, if you time it right you will spike them as they approach and you will land normally. So funny when it works lol
Dedede is very easy to edgeguard
1. Multiple jumps
2. You can hit people with Fair, Bair, or Uair if they get near you like, if some dumbass decides to jump off and do an obvious meteor you can just Uair their sorry ass unless they actually outrange you somehow
3. You can toss a Gordo if you are above
4. Up B has armor and travels a ridiculous distance
huh
toadster101
Banned via Warnings
1. Multiple jumps help him recover, not block attacks. It doesn't help that air dodging has been nerfed significantly.
2. His back air has a lot of startup lag; his up air is a fantastic move, but the only time people have ever tried spiking is me while I'm performing an up B, so that doesn't help; forward air has great range, which is why it's the move I use the most while trying to recover. Be careful of lag when you're attacking other people in midair.
3. Gordos are extremely predictable and can be deflected with most aerial attacks. Highly situational.
4. Distance is irrelevant when you're easily gimped or punished severely if you land on the stage instead of the ledge after using your up B. This is why it's a good idea to stay low, but certain characters can still punish you.
Don't get me wrong, the character is far from being bad, but his monstrous size makes him vulnerable to edgeguarding. At least he's not as bad as Dr. Mario or Ganondorf, who are doomed to be bottom tier because of their terrible recovery.
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Johnny Heart Gold
Smash Journeyman
Duck Hunt Trio
To OP: BTW DDD can trow gordos and.... has a nice f-tilt? That's something isn't? Yeah he kind of sucks... but hey I use Palutena and she is hard as hell to play with so don't give up
Johnny Heart Gold
Smash Journeyman
Dude!!! platypus are venomous!!! Don't play with those is dangerous man!!!
JingleJangleJamil
Banned via Warnings
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2014
- Messages
- 536
I think if he is looking to win and he wants to switch to a new main he should just main one of the considered top tier characters (though right now it is too early to say who is top tier or not, unless there is a tier list I never heard about). I'm just saying if you are just playing to win you shouldn't be picking a character you knew was not good enough for you to win with after 1600 matches. If you want to be good with a character who is not considered to be a good character, it is going to take more than just wanting to win to be good with them, otherwise you would just switch to a higher tier character. If you want to be good with a character who is not that good of a character you need to play them because you enjoy playing as them, not because you enjoy winning (I know this sounds like some sort of speech out of some anime). Megaman is also a pretty bad character,but I have seen TONS of tournament matches where the player is AMAZING with him whether they win or lose, and I bet they picked him because they find him fun to use.
Basically, if he wants to win he should just use a high tier character instead of choosing to use D3, who he should have figured out was not anything special LONG before 1600 matches with him.
Who are you replying to? To me that comments sounds like you are specifically talking to one person.
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JingleJangleJamil
Banned via Warnings
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2014
- Messages
- 536
That is exactly why he said that...I'm pretty sure he knows he would preform much better in a competitive environment with more available stages and no occasional lag (or not so occasional if you are unlucky or have slow internet).
Edit: Sorry for double post!
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I can't speak for the guy but that's pretty much what I think he's saying. it doesn't matter if he came to that conclusion 1600 matches in imo. he's saying that he tried dedede out and that in his opinion he won't be able to compete with the other characters.
also for the record I don't think he's as bad as I make it sound, but then again I haven't played a lot of people that are really good with certain characters.
also for the record I don't think he's as bad as I make it sound, but then again I haven't played a lot of people that are really good with certain characters.
Duck Hunt Duo is their ingame name... :D At least here in the EU.
Non of this thread matters because Nintendo is going to patch the game mont after month. 1.04 I HUGE ALREADY. I'm actually beating sheiks and greninjas now. Granted they still have huge advantage but Nintendo has really stepped up and I really think over time they will even the field.
XStarWarriorX
[Get Ready]
This thread is sad, some dude from canada, forgot his name but it was a single name, played well with DDD, pivot f-tilts, well spaced gordos as in not just side-b. running off the stage and hover back-airing like a wall. his bread and butter grab to fair, his u-air is one of the best anti-airs. his u-tilt is still combo material, his nair is great when spaced correctly, I mean seriously you guys arent playing him well if your complaining and this is coming from a kirby main that plays him sparingly and knows how he works thanks to watching vex. you guys should see vex's (aka ZeRo's roomate) DDD. Props to that DDD main, made DDD look like his brawl status, if not better.
toadster101
Banned via Warnings
This is such drivel. Just because people are complaining doesn't make them bad at the game. Dedede, unfortunately, has several unfavorable matchups that are impossible to ignore. That doesn't mean the character is useless, but please don't dismiss legitimate complaints because you got beaten by a good Dedede user.
XStarWarriorX
[Get Ready]
And your dismissing me because your saying "your a scrub because you dont know what your talking about" (lol thats hilarious).Well guess what I do, I didn't come here "just because I got beaten by a good DDD user", I have beaten good DDD's but I've seen firsthand how good DDD's should play like, if someone says just cause "oh ZSS is 2 gud", im gonna drop, then thats just scrubbyness right there, i called out their complaints because dropping a character because a MU is hard is just stupid, kirby vs marth in brawl is a hard MU did i drop? no. melee kirby is garbage but did I drop no. These DDD mains have to flat out get used to the MU and deal with the weaknesses, its still doable (because this smash is one of the balanced to date) buts its an uphill battle but the key here is that its doable, its not like melee pichu, but to me dropping the character because they don't space and spam normal angled gordo is stupid.
Again, DDD can hang out off stage and wall, can throw the gordo in front of him at an angle instead of the stupid side b spam that most do, u-air is great no character can touch you from above, which they will try, u-tilt is the same deal if your getting hit from above your playing him wrong, you can also pivot f-tilt to make sure you dont get grabbed, and hover and do some retreating fairs or back airs to wall out, you will win the trade or even get KO's with them. If they use projectiles you can inhale once or y'know shield. since its pretty good in this game, "oh but they're gonna grab", you have jab or f-tilt out of shield so dont complain.
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If your fave character is not so bad that it's unplayable in a tournament setting then you shouldn't give up on them. If you do, then there's a good chance you won't last. Winning with something you don't like isn't enough to keep you playing. Worst case: you pick up a secondary to deal with your main's bad match ups.
Funny you mentioned Vex, watching him beat Larry was what made me decide to main D3 for Sm4sh. Happy I played him, was able to pick up on a couple things.
Funny you mentioned Vex, watching him beat Larry was what made me decide to main D3 for Sm4sh. Happy I played him, was able to pick up on a couple things.
FierceFox
Smash Apprentice
Lol, cute post considering Nintendo just nerfed him because he was too good in FG mode (as in winning % was too high). Perhaps OP should try and git gud at the game.
Not that I don't agree with you, but that video you posted is clearly before everyone and their mom figured out how to work ddd, especially Rosalina. I mean the shout caster even said, "Is that her dash attack? ". Every smash player on earth knows Rosalina OP dash attack...
I know Nintendo will patch things but look where ddd sits in tier for top players right now.
http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/
FierceFox
Smash Apprentice
If you're looking to win, Dedede will be good enough.
Seems like a lot of people here don't know how to use him correctly. With the newest version (nerfed him critically w/ the down throw trajectory and reqs for returning gordos), he may not be the best option. But, I can say with confidence that before the newest version and even now, he IS GOOD ENOUGH to win at tournaments.
Learn to play him. Especially if you played him for 1600 matches. Just sad... <-- directed at OP to clarify (edited to add that)
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FierceFox
Smash Apprentice
Couldn't agree more. Tier list is a joke. Can't wait to see how wrong this initial data gathering is once the game has been out for awhile. (sadly Nintendo's updates may be adding fuel to the fire of tier changes)
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XStarWarriorX
[Get Ready]
But bruh... rosie's dash attack is laggy as hell (you just gotta know the shield timing like with kirby's DA)... its only good if luma is there, like most of her moves, the only redeemable ones without luma is up-smash and maybe d-smash and of course her tilts.
Yes I know some people can work DDD but that doesn't mean DDD is garbage, he's def viable as vex shows and still shows to this day. But to cover his weaknesses he also dabbles with falco and others, DDD mains can pick up a counter secondary instead of dropping him completely because like i said, he's not that bad lol.
also like others said, that isnt an official tier list
MrInsaynne
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2014
- Messages
- 2
I think DDD is good. He just has natural big body problems is all.
GreeZ
Smash Rookie
Dude DDD like fat and stuff you totz just sit on dem. Sometimes sit on dem wit hammer. Either way you win every match no matter what the stupid end screen says because the true game ain't about who got the most kills or had the most stocks, and it definitely ain't about who grabbed the most coins. It's about who is a little monkey with a peanut gun, and who SAT on the stupid little monkey and squished him flat. DDD ain't about winning through skill, he win through swag.
GreeZ
Smash Rookie
On a more serious note however, it is definitely true that DDD has been significantly nerfed. While I shall still play him for fun, It'd also be nice to have a character I can more easily win with. Are there any characters with a similar patient playstyle that one would suggest?
Soul Train
Just laugh.
Nerfed? They fixed his Gordos to reflect when they should, and gave us a free dthrow -> uair under ~70%. So you play a lot more Dead Man's Volley and have a marginally different combo string; it's a slightly different D3 that I feel fits him better anyways.
Which is effectively a nerf, since they take even less damage to get reflected (2% from 3%).
Also, removal of Vectoring, while seemingly helping our DThrow setups, makes us a lot more vulnerable to combo characters.
It's much, much more of a nerf than it is a buff.
I have played no other character other than DDD. Here is my win/loss ratio with a pleasant surprise in the KO section. The King is not dead.
Edit - Here is the link cause the image isn't showing up.
http://imgur.com/s7RVtTV
Edit - Here is the link cause the image isn't showing up.
http://imgur.com/s7RVtTV
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Can't really rate a character's effectiveness based on your win rate in For Glory sadly.
The skill discrepancy being too high, along with a non-existant matchmaking, makes it hard to provide any relevant data.
The skill discrepancy being too high, along with a non-existant matchmaking, makes it hard to provide any relevant data.
I know for a fact a match making system is in place based on skill. I play on a friend's ds every week and he has a 30% win ratio. I'll go 50+ wins straight on his ds and he'll complain the next day he can always tell when I've been on his ds cause his opponents are nuts. I've done this several times without his knowledge and he'll ask me if I've been on his ds each time. Maybe it's not a perfect system but I'm sure it's not random.
Based on my 89% win rate over the course of 1800 matches, I shouldn't be 2 stocking my opponents 9 times out of 10 games on a regular basis.
I'd like to think that it's because TripleD is an incredibly good character, or that I'm really good, or both, but it simply isn't the case. Matchmaking in its current state is flawed as far as reflecting one's skill goes.
I'd like to think that it's because TripleD is an incredibly good character, or that I'm really good, or both, but it simply isn't the case. Matchmaking in its current state is flawed as far as reflecting one's skill goes.
FimPhym
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2010
- Messages
- 73
- 3DS FC
- 0920-2129-8093
Exactly the same boat here.
Win rate is even less meaningful since you could, deliberately or not, stay in games with weak players and avoid strong ones. That's why my conscious goal is to get my win rate as low as possible while trying my hardest. Then I'm probably becoming a stronger player and learning something.
Just play after 11pm and before 8am pacific. 9 out of 10 of your matches will be Asians who understand the game mechanics. If you troll at 10 in the afternoon You get stay at home moms.
Evening / Late night is pretty much the only time I get to play.
I play with friends more often than not, but anyway, if there truly was a good matchmaking system, I shouldn't have to wait for a specific time of the day to play against good players in FG.
I play with friends more often than not, but anyway, if there truly was a good matchmaking system, I shouldn't have to wait for a specific time of the day to play against good players in FG.
Fixed that for you. They're not necessarily better, and other than having laggier games, they really don't offer anything different from other players.
Warlock*G
Banned via Warnings
So the big, fat penguin is not good. Can't say I'm surprised.
I personally play Ganondorf when I feel like being a punching bag, but to each his own.
I personally play Ganondorf when I feel like being a punching bag, but to each his own.