Advancing Yoshi: The 3 Main things to abuse

[Nogzor'z]

Advancing Yoshi: The 3 Main things to abuse

AUTHOR’S NOTE: I’m writing this to try and play a part in the
Progression of the yoshi metagame. I know that the material is
Already covered in other posts. I’m just hoping to shed some light
Into how I think and play the game, and possibly give helpful advice
For improving someone’s yoshi playstyle. If I’m embarrassing myself
By posting nonsense or you feel differently about the content, please
feel free to tell me/ give critique or criticism.​

After countless hours of contemplating about how to use yoshi effectively in the smash scene of 2010...I’ve finally decided to begin noting things down and have tried to isolate what I think are three of the most important tactic/move/ AT’s that all yoshi players should abuse at the top game. Keep in mind that these can change (probably will) as the smash society begins to adapt to new general play styles.

Also, Please keep in mind that these things should be practiced and applied AFTER one has become one with Yoshi as a character. This familiarization includes:

Yoshi’s gimmicky movement in general
DJC’s
RDJC’s
yoshi’s limitations to Edge-guarding
Egg application*
Recovering consistently and efficiently
Knowing yoshi’s general combos
L-canceling yoshi’s DJC’ed aerials (applies to combos)
Knowing shield uses and limitations
ECE and other ledge tricks

*egg application can be anything from defensive egg usage, aggressive/approaching with eggs, and edge-guarding with eggs.

**For a more in-depth explanation of Yoshi as a character, see Shiri’s thread: Project: Y.O.S.H.I. (Updated 11/06/2006) -- Reference Threads Added or the yoshi guide thread: How to hatch a healthy Yoshi: A Yoshi guide

Now down to business.

Number 1-- Neutral B

The point isn't whether or they can mash out before you get a single hit. It's main attraction is that it can shift momentum, it's annoying, at high percents it can induce some panic since it takes them outside of their comfort zone, and after repeated use make them less confident in their options. Furthermore, its range exceeds that of Yoshi's aerials (+ it's faster than fair!) so sometimes this is the only thing/fastest move to connect from certain positions in the air.

Along with this, allow me give my reasons as to why this move needs to be used more than it is now. All other characters in the game, except yoshi, can use their shield at almost any time and still have “Out of Shield” options. The most common ones are either a fast shield grab, jump out of shield, wavedash out, or up-B or some other quick attack out of shield.
Some of the smasher’s mindsets might choose to use shield as a safety net to fall back on, even if the shield is only up for a second or two (since they have many OoS options). These shields can be commonly instinctive after: landing from a double jump, just missing an aerial and L-canceling, seeing approach coming in too fast, or even to have a “safe” spot to stop and think.
Catching onto these, even the tiniest of, habits is where egg lay plays its role. Not only can it be used when anticipating any shield, Neutral-B with its long range can be applied to shut down "walls" or otherwise "safe" moves of some characters, Where as dash grab may not have been sufficient.Obviously grab can replace Neutral B, but Yoshi’s grabs has its problems of shorter range, gimmicky hitbox, and slow start up (for standing grab). Not only that, but grab cannot be used in the air, unlike egg lay.
When on the retreat/defensive, a well spaced DJC or RDJC Neutral-B, reverse Neutral-B, or just a quick wavedash back Neutral-B will catch some generic/lazy approaches (which would have, in effect, been avoided) off guard. Although, canceling your second jump is still a risk and leaves yoshi incredibly vulnerable should you get hit. For example, A fox or falcos 'panacea' approach is a SHFFL’ed aerial, and if this does not connect... player might: shield/shine/jab or other fast move from an L-cancel for maybe even a split second in anticipation for a retaliation attack from their opponent. Unfortunately for them, shields are rendered useless against a versatile grab, and shine/jabs are of short range which get overcome by egg lay.
Hopefully, as yoshi becomes more popular, and egg lay is more commonly used, the general community will begin to change or question previously accepted styles of play.

Now that the obvious one ( to me at least) is settled, let us look at Yoshi’s more technical abilities.

Numbers 2 & 3--Double jump cancel counter (DJCC) and Parrying

#2
DJCC has been around, or at least known, for quite some time now, but I believe it has yet to be implemented to its full potential. The basis around this technique is…In using yoshi’s double jump just before an opponent’s attack, one can, essentially, nullify all knock back and hit stun of the attack and continue to have free control of their character. This allows players to “counter” an attack with their own desired aerial attack. The limitations of DJCC is that it cannot be used as effectively when one’s damage has reached greater than 100% (depends on the attack). I have efficiently been able to shut down many characters approaches with the DJCC reversal-ish attributes. Some Examples of attacks that this technique can be useful in stopping are:

Most jabs in general
Falcon’s Nair
Marth’s Nair and Fair
Falco’s Nair, Dair, and lasers
Fox’s Nair and shine
Puff’s Fair and Nair
Shiek’s Ftilt and Fair
ANY other somewhat weak attack that you can reliable anticipate.

3#
Parrying is, in an intense thought debate inside my head, essentially a higher technical demanding, negligible risk, high rewarding DJCC but it is used on the ground (as opposed to the DJCC which is used in the air). The details behind the parry are quite complex and can be found in SheerMandess’ thread: Revolutionizing Yoshi: Parrying (aka supershielding) NEW VID!!
But to sum it up…When yoshi shield, the initial frames of his animation has a sort of specialty that allow yoshi to actually jump out of his shield. The execution of a Parry is to place these few frames of yoshis shield and initiate them at nearly the same moment as you are attacked. The shield will still block the attack, and in the same way a power shield does, allow yoshi to grab (or more importantly jump) almost immediately after “super shielding” the attack. <<Did I get this right?
Initially, I dismissed parry as a not as not very useful tech, simply because my hands were not able to handle the technical requirements. That was in the past and boy was I WRONG. After I gave some intense practice to condition my fingers to instinctively press the correct inputs, Parrying came into a new light for me.
As one could infer, this tactic/AT basically allows yoshi’s “shield game” to be on par with all the other characters. I’m not sure about you guys, but this changes EVERYTHING that has to do with Yoshi shielding an attack. Parrying correctly makes yoshi’s grab much more viable, and opens up all out of shield options for yoshi that he previously didn’t have. It also works well against attacks that can be anticipated, such as:

Most projectiles (Mewtwo’s shadow ball is the perfect one to practice on)
Falco Nair and Dair
Fox’s Nair
Falcon’s Dair (though I’ve yet to try it much on this)
Characters that like to “wall of Bair”
Ganon’s Fair

I’ll allow your imagination to create the virtually limitless new abilities that parrying and DJCC gives yoshi.

**On a side note, I’d like to add that these examples given are attacks that I feel are easy to see coming. If you just so happen to know other characters so well that you can anticipate their attacks, feel free to try to Parry or DJCC it and watch your opponent drop their control in a state of paralysis.

***I'm sorry if the formatting is unacceptable or Ridiculous, but I tried... :/

 

[ChivalRuse]

Parrying is hard. Having a good shield drop game is a good starting point for learning the parry though I guess.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Good stuff Nog'z ^^

 

[Nogzor'z]

Fully holding down the shield trigger before connecting a control (to eliminate light shield) helped me immensly when I began attempt parrying.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I'm able to do parry sort of. I just can't do the grab/jump/up-smash right after. Do you have to be really fast, or is it a tricky sequence of inputs maybe?

 

[Nogzor'z]

I don't really think of myself as "fast hands" or anything so yea, I'd have to say it more of a tricky sequence of inputs rather than having to be really fast. That and timing the inputs so that they actually apply to a match.

I'm not really able to do up-smash out of it either, whenever i try, i just seem to grab.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Hopefully I can figure out how to do it, and then it'll just be a matter of practice.

 

[Nogzor'z]

) I still want to highly recommended trying it on uncharged shadowballs. Good luck

 

[leffen]

Nice post, although I disagree on the egg lay part. While it may seem like a good move, it has a few major drawbacks.
Firstl and foremost, its slow. It has around 14 frames of startup iirc and then the hitbox slowly travels along yoshis tongue.
While this is true for yoshis other grabs, it has a bigger effect on egg lay, since its far too slow to throw out unspaced.
Secondly, it deals so little damage and has NO reward vs most top tiers. After the slow startup, you have loads of time
before you even become an egg. Versus people with Yoshi experience you wont even get a hit ( which only deals half damage, and stales your normal attacks ).
They will either just mash out asap at low percents and either punish you, put you in a horrible spot, or escape. At higher percents ( or lower ) they will simply
mash a bit, and when they see you start any attack they will just start mashing quickly and use the high amount of invicibility to retaliate.

Lesser known drawbacks are that yoshi lags much more after eating someone than normaly AND loses all momentum in the air ( which highly limits its use during recovery and on the edge ).
Oh and not to be blunt, but those shielding examples arent really legit at all. No decent player will be that ******** with their shield useage.
Its best used as a very situational mixup ( once a match or less, possibly a bit more if your opponent doesnt have any yoshi experience and/or is choking ).

Yoshis running grab is heavily underused, and is actually very legit compared to egg lay. It has a unique hitbox, but as you start to use it more you will learn how to use it properly.
Its 12 frames afaik, and has great range ( yoshi lounges forward ) and while it lags a bit, yoshi is moving and able to CC. One of my favorite mixups is rushing in with a grab vs a marth in the air spacing fairs.
Since Yoshis lounges forward, you prevent him tippering you and thus you are able to CC punish his fairs.
Every single one of yoshis grabs have uses, and Dthrow is just ****ing awesome versus some characters. Fthrow / bthrow is fast and on the edge i've made some incredibly clutch gimps with pivot dtilt / dsmashing them after their second jump at 0% :D

Good initiative though, Im probably gonna do a write up on Yoshis platform game and its uses vs top tiers ( <3 having the by far best shield drop in the game ) later.
I would also appriciate if V3ctorman / Mind trick / Other yoshis would start posting some of their tricks / thoughts on how to play yoshi and his mixups, Yoshi can be played in so ****ing many ways o_O.

 

[darkgirku]

Yeah, the egglay pretty much boils down to a mixup in the end, but really, do not underestimate it. You will most definitely NOT get punished for landing an egglay if you know what you're doing.

You can easily put yourself in a favorable position after egglaying someone, you just need some experience with the options people have out of it. (...slight invincibility, wavelanding out into shield (which is a bad position for the opponent...) etc)

The speed of the move isn't what we think is the good part about it (although, i would by no means call it "slow"... just 2 frames slower than running grab :/ ). It's the fact that you can use it in the air, and precisely that it lingers for a bit. you have to spot dodge almost perfectly to actually dodge it. The easiest way to dodge is to roll, because running back is often too slow to escape (unless you're fox or something) as is wavedashing back. If you try to jump/shorthop to escape it, you will get egglayed out of the air (for most characters).

So yeah, it does has a few rewards for landing, no risk after landing it, and can be difficult to punish even a "whiffed" one.

Dash grab is pretty darn good as well... it's faster, but it is easier to spot dodge, can be "jump dodged", and can only be done on the ground (a lot easier to see coming). It of course offers higher rewards, but it has its drawbacks as well, compared to egglay.
I'm not really sure how you can say it is "very legit" when you say previously that one would have to be ******** to get hit by egglay often. I don't think 2 frames is enough to go from ******** to very legit, lol.

Not to mention that egglay's usefulness skyrockets when playing certain slow and/or big characters (bowser/DK/mewtwo/Ganon/etc)

huhm, I'd like to know exactly how much ending lag (for a missed and a successful egg lay both) yoshi gets for egglay.

Sigh... I guess we need vids though, huh? lol

lastly, I just wanna point out that nogzorz did say that this "abuse" is most likely temporary, due to people obviously getting used to yoshi's tricks. After players adapt, then it will remain as a mixup, instead of something to abuse, and I do think that neutral B is more susceptible to this adaptation compared to DJCCing and supershielding.

---Good input by the way, we need a lot more yoshi discussion. I'd love reading a yoshi vs top tier write up. Soo difficult to overcome some of their gayness.

 

[leffen]

Well , you are surely running a risk of getting punished during some cirumstances ( example : Egg lay a peach, she will mash out -> fc bair -> dsmash and not only do you lag but shes also invincible =/ ).
If you are never getting punished while trying to utilise the advantage from egg lay then your just playing bad people ( they are ALWAYS in frame advantage because of the invincibility+ your lag, they can move around while in the egg alot, which means you wont even gain that much stage control ).

I never said that because its slow its bad, but it means you wont be able to throw it out unspaced...
Oh and its not hard at all to spotdodge punish unless your marth or someone else with a horrible spotdodge.
You can also easily outspace it with a dash dance to dash attack or smth ( remember, I said it wasnt good against TOP TIERS ). Realise that if you do it in the air aiming to hit someone on the ground, then they can either get your jump in the start up or jump / duck to avoid it depending on how you space it.

What this means is : Medium risk if spaced :slow, lags alot , in the air = no cc and possibly no jump ( saying almost no risk if whiffed is bs imo, that only applies to real safe attacks like marths fair )
Low reward : around 7% if you dont try to get ballsy and catch their breakout, which is high risk vs medium reward vs top tiers.

About dash grab : Its not as easy to see coming since you have ALOT more options. You are able to catch landings very easily ( shouldnt be able to with egg lay ) and you are able to predict / outspace with dash dance much better than in the air.. Spotdodges can be punished much more easily than if in the air, and considering you move waayy faster on the ground + dash grab both lounges forward and is considerably faster ( it isnt just 2frames as I said ).

I think you misunderstood me with the "******** part". I was describing the shield useage Nogzorz used as example. Grab works much more as a read / punish and egg lay works like a situational mixup you throw out there to keep em guessing ( you'd have to be ******** to ever punish someone with egg lay, even fair is faster and basicly every move yoshi has have better reward ).

Egg lays use is way better against DK / Bowser / Ganon indeed, but even those can use their fastfall + invicibility to escape. And as I said, Im talking bout top tiers.
( lmfao at mewtwo, he can just teleport away ).

Your last segment just strengthens my argument = its good as a situational mixup and gets more useful vs unexperienced players.
Both DJCC and Parrying aren't adaptable in any even related way.


Im really considering doing a large matchup guide on Yoshi vs Fox , probably in video form since I have sony vegas experience and recording available.
I will include things as how to deal with his camping, how to combo him at specific percents, how one should cover his recovery options, how you should DI versus him etc.
Video material will be from playing vs above average foxes only ( prob gonna MM every fox player at the upcoming national + every fox player in sweden ) :D
^Any input etc on this?

 

[Mind Trick]

I agree with DJCC and parry being ****ing amazing.

Egglay is much more situational though imo. I definitely see it working against shielding playersfrom the air, much like bowsers claw, you won't see it coming if you haven't played against these characters before.
However, against fastfallers I don't find it that good of an option, mostly because of the invincibily it gives them and being generally hard to punish when they break out. At the edge I love it though, they have to be carefull when mashing out not to fastfall or hit shield or something because it will mean insta death, and even if they break out they will have to sweetspot or get edgeguarded.
Against floaties though it's pretty good, because they'll float a bit up in the air, making them premier eggbait (pretty much every floatie has trouble avoiding eggs when high in the air) and upsmash can work as well. I've never seen a peach fc bair to dsmash because theyre simply too high up to use that effectively.

Also, against characters that are hard to punish breaking out, you're giving up your whole pressure game, and positioning is then definitely overrated, because to land it you already have to be pressuring/in control and I much more prefer pressuring the shield then (although I'm pretty bad at it lol). I might have to experiment a bit more with it though, but it definitely does not seem to be worth the effort/reads for that small a %.

Im really considering doing a large matchup guide on Yoshi vs Fox , probably in video form since I have sony vegas experience and recording available.
I will include things as how to deal with his camping, how to combo him at specific percents, how one should cover his recovery options, how you should DI versus him etc.

Sure.

Video material will be from playing vs above average foxes only ( prob gonna MM every fox player at the upcoming national + every fox player in sweden ) :D
^Any input etc on this?

Don't do it if you value your money lol

 

[Nogzor'z]

Yea I definitely was writing the Egg lay part with much doubt because i didnt know much about frame detail and frame advantage.
@ leffen: And may I ask... while im surprised at your peach example

"Egg lay a peach, she will mash out -> fc bair -> dsmash and not only do you lag but shes also invincible"

Has this ever happened at all? I'm just asking for I have never seen such a thing? Perhaps i'll try it if I get a chance...

Yoshi's dash grab is very good I agree, but i wasn't to sure about how underrated/underused it was (seeing as to how works as a grab, just like everyone else's) so I decided to not say much about it.

I'm normally a huge "lurker" and occasional poster here in the yoshi boards, and just randomly decided to post my thought in somewhat of an informative way.
I definitely appreciate all the criticism.

*Alas....If only all the yoshi players had a way of coming together to play melee and converse in a verbal manner. I suppose these boards will do. :/"

 

[Zinayzen]

One thing that absolutely needs to be mentioned (which I don't know too much about, so I can't write it), is wavelanding platforms. That's a huge part of why Yoshi can be such an absolute pain on certain stages, he's all over the place.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

i hadnt played yoshi in a while since i main mario now, but i played my friends link the other day and he raged soo hard. he ragequit after I did this combo on him:

fair > ftilt > nair > djnair

It was lulzy. Yoshi = too good. Nice stuff guys, i really gotta work on parrying tho. Sometimes ill parry but itll be on accident. Once some1 can parry on command almost every time like Phanna does w/ the SWD, they will ****.

 

[Nogzor'z]

Wavelanding around on platforms was one aspect about yoshi I sort of pondered about adding to this but I wasn't certain and hesitated against it. Perhaps if Leffen doesn't do one on Yoshi's platform game, I might (for i do enjoy wavelanding all over the place).

 

[Zinayzen]

That's what I love about yoshi. Or mine, anyway. I'll get the absolute **** kicked out of me, but I can always get my opening and pull out a massive 90%+ combo really easily.

 

[ChivalRuse]

If you successfully egg lay someone, I'm pretty sure you always have at least enough frame advantage to get better stage positioning before they mash out. A successful egg lay has like no lag.

The point isn't whether or they can mash out before you get a single hit. It's main attraction is that it can shift momentum, it's annoying, at high percents it can induce some panic since it takes them outside of their comfort zone, and after repeated use make them less confident in their options. Furthermore, its range exceeds that of Yoshi's aerials (+ it's faster than fair!) so sometimes this is the only thing/fastest move to connect from certain positions in the air.

 

[SheerMadness]

I like neutral b, it's a good mix up and unexpected approach. I also seem to have time to do a quick djc'ed nair on them before they break out.

Nogzor'z you got parry right for the most part. The jumping/grabbing/upsmashing part of the parry shouldn't be that difficult. You're basically inputting jump/grab/upsmash a split second after you input shield so it's essentially all in the same motion and feels pretty easy/natural to me. But I've also been parrying for 4-5 years in ssb64 so I have a lot of experience and practice.

 

[Nogzor'z]

Haha.. thanks sheer, I wasn't entirely sure I explained the parry correctly in all its glory.

 

[yoshiiscool]

Y'know, at first Leffen, I found you to be an insufferable douche, but now that we're in concurrence on something, you're not that bad >.> I was getting so frustrated at how much people were talking about neutral b being this great tactic that I just kinda gave up on these boards, even though I've been grinding tech skill and came up with a bunch of new stuff that I wanted to post. I don't like it at all, and Leffen pretty much pointed out everything that I find wrong with it, just he posted with a hell of a lot less vulgar language than I would have while making those posts, so thank you for that .

Errr, anyways, for the other stuff: Yea, we all kinda knew that DJCC and parry are good by now, but the main problems with them are being able to use them effectively, and knowing when to use them. DJCC always has the drawback that you WILL take damage when even attempting to use it, so it's imperative that you're able to quickly weigh the risk/reward of the situation, and know what type of counter to throw out to get the most out of it. Though it's definitely a handy technique to have at your disposal, just try not to absolutely rely on it, as finding an opening without having to DJCC will practically always be less risky and more rewarding. It's also possible for people to grow keen on your DJCC patterns so expect people to become more patient and smarter the more you use it (for instance, just wait till the sheik player you play decides to grab you out of the double jump you were trying to anticipate his f-tilt with, or a falco reading your DJCC combo-breaker, and shining you out of it for complete ****). In other words, just be careful,

As far as parrying is concerned, I think it's an amazing technique, but is extremely difficult to make use of, as your success with it is limited to your ability of anticipation, and your reaction times. I also find this really risky though, because there's so little time between when you shield and when you have to input the jump, that the decision to attempt to parry is a commitment, so you almost might as well be vulnerable directly afterwards seeing as you will not be able to react fast enough to say whether or not you should stay in your shield, or jump. Another big part of parrying is what you decide to do from a parry, but I don't feel like going that much in-depth on it right now, I'll post more if anyone wants me to elaborate.

So, now up to some new **** that I've been doing, besides parry tech-skill practicing (which is really easy, to be honest, it's just hard to implement). Everything new I can come up with has to do with platforms. Yoshi really is the master of weirdness on platforms. First off, is just a handy little idea I came up with awhile back to help get up to low platforms a bit quicker for either techchasing, or continuing combos, and that's DJLing on the platforms as you pass through them. There's only a very short window of time in which you can do this, but it has no lag, unlike a waveland, and it is the fastest possible way you can get on to a platform, period. Earlier today, I actually caught someone in a combo where I n-aired them from the center of battlefield, and caught their DI by DJLing on to the right platform and was able to d-smash them while still stunned, was some pretty epic ****.

The second platform tech is kind of the same result, by it cancels all momentum and leaves you in the standing animation without any lag. I don't quite understand what causes it, I assume it's just Yoshi's hitbox being weird during his double jump, but anytime during the rising of a double jump, while directly above/inside a platform (think of the timing of a perfect waveland (a waveland where you can just hold straight left/right)) if you preform ANY of Yoshi's aerials, the hitbox will not come out, and it will auto cancel Yoshi's momentum and you'll be left in the standing animation on the platform with no lag. This can also be used for some cool tech-chasing tricks, or just wicked platform tricksies/mindgames, and ALSO can be used on the main floor of the stage itself, if you ramp the stage with your double jump (sorry battlefield). I'm pretty sure all characters can do this, but it's so simple to do with Yoshi, that most of you have probably done it accidentally, and it can actually be practiced enough to do consistently (I can, and it looks pretty cool actually)


So yup, that's just some stuff... On request I'll post more stuff about parry follow-ups since I find these to be some of the coolest aspects of Yoshi's game, and have been grinding them to consistency for awhile now. I could probably go on for an hour about what to do, when, why, as well as give tips on how to do ****... but not many people care to talk about it, and this post is already breaching the concept tl;dr in my opinion.

Yup.

 

[Mind Trick]

Doing a parry really is not that hard if you practise it a little (and eliminating light shield on one shoulder button helps immensely too). Learning the timing however against all the different attacks, projectiles and grabs takes a lot of dedication.

Earlier today, I actually caught someone in a combo where I n-aired them from the center of battlefield, and caught their DI by DJLing on to the right platform and was able to d-smash them while still stunned, was some pretty epic ****.

sounds hot
comboing into dsmash is so lethal

3. Techchasing platforms is too much fun, some of the best options:
- Harass with djc upair or upsmash for the kill if it reaches.
- Fullhop a dair and edgecancel it (easier than it sounds) to djc upair or waveland back on, this eats shields for the shieldstab upair or gives a ****ton of damage.
- Use your doublejump to land and immediately dashgrab, the most amazing one imo :D (a spacie accually di'ed down away or something my downthrow and I could dropzone off it )

 

[Nogzor'z]

Yoshi really is the master of weirdness on platforms.

Which is why platform stages are my favorties... seriously though, It sounds like you're trying to make yoshi's amazing platform movements and abilities on them more well-known/implemented, which is nice and would be great.

 

[DstyCube]

Fully holding down the shield trigger before connecting a control (to eliminate light shield) helped me immensly when I began attempt parrying.

I like this.

Egg lay can set up a few offensive attacks, against mid - light weight characters it should be noted that its pretty safe to charge an up smash since Yoshi's head is granted some invincibility frames on the attack (not to mention it's priority isn't too shabby). Eggs are always another safe option. But I agree that the main benefit as mentioned before is the spacing advantage, don't waste it.

 

[darkgirku]

I was getting so frustrated at how much people were talking about neutral b being this great tactic that I just kinda gave up on these boards,

Lol that's depressing

The argument against egglay is that the victim has frame advantage? I seriously wanna see the frame data :/

No one is saying egglay is a godly tactic; we're just saying to abuse it along with DJCCs and parrying in high level matches AT FIRST... to feel out a player. Isn't that fine? When the opponent catches on to one trick, move on to the next, and so forth. depending on what the opponent does or doesn't do, you can play the match/set accordingly.

I guess I may have gone a bit overboard in my "praise" for the move, so I can see how you would think otherwise... But it's a board. we should discuss the character. No giving up plz. lol

also...

I could probably go on for an hour about what to do, when, why, as well as give tips on how to do ****... but not many people care to talk about it

...what? I definitely want to and I think we neeeed to talk about this stuff lol .__.

double jump landing as a quicker way to chase people on platforms is definitely legit. I wasn't ever sure if it had no landing lag, but according to you, it doesn't... so woot! Yoshi's speed +1 =D

On a related note, I don't know how many of you make use of perfect wavelanding come up through the bottom of platforms with a DJ, but it's really easy to do as yoshi, and makes him that much quicker on the platforms. just sayin'.

 

[Nogzor'z]

The point isn't whether or they can mash out before you get a single hit. It's main attraction is that it can shift momentum, it's annoying, at high percents it can induce some panic since it takes them outside of their comfort zone, and after repeated use make them less confident in their options. Furthermore, its range exceeds that of Yoshi's aerials (+ it's faster than fair!) so sometimes this is the only thing/fastest move to connect from certain positions in the air.

Mind if i "steal" this in a possible/ probable future revision? I like the wording.

but not many people care to talk about it

I think the people that matter/ can relate to your thoughts are enough to make your talking about yoshi worthwhile.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yea you can use it.