TheSaintKai
Smash Ace
Gonna go check it out. Thanks ch33s3.
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Advancing the Desync Metagame
- Thread starter DeLux
- Start date
Orion*
Smash Researcher
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
<333
XDDDD
yo real talk
is english your 3rd language?
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 9,302
Note: This discussion is pre-frame data testing on the RIDSC, but I'm 99% sure it all holds true:
The Hylian Desync is a relatively known quantity now after the thread EA made. Read it so we're all on the same page. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=287363 Also, watch the videos in this post: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11203351&postcount=13. The RIDSC is the ?? video only reversaled.
Now I wanted to do a brief discussion on the merits of doing a Hylian vs. RIDSC vs. DSC buffered turnaround.
In my mind, (feel free to disagree) the situations you would use the three are often interchangeable. They both act as an instant doubling back grab setup. The only notable difference between the two comes in terms of a trade off in frames for space.
The Hylian is done without shield drop which makes it 8 frames faster, but the RIDSC has a sliding action to it that makes the spacing a little safer.
However, if we look at it from a flow chart, you can see it's a steady progression of mixups that trade frames for spacing.
You have the buffered turnaround which can be done out of dash and run. This is fairly slow (compared to the other two being discussed), but much easier to perform. What your opponent does see however is a retreating run, followed by a shield cancel, followed by a bunch of flashing shields and dashing, which leads into a nana special.
If you condition them correctly, one of the responses that an opponent might make is to attempt to "jam" you while you attempt to pull off this desync. In that, they attempt to disrupt you by attacking the desync before you can pull off whatever setup . Which is where the RIDDSC comes in.
In this scenario, the opponent would see a retreating dash, a shield flash, and then a setup. The period of waiting for nana to dash is skipped.
However, if your opponent is then conditioned to avoid ground during every time you shield cancel, that's where the Hylian comes in. Since it's spaced much more tightly and skips the shield drop phase, it is an even further mixup along the flow chart.
So what your opponent would see in the context of a Hylian would be retreating dash, grab setup. In terms of input, blizzard is actually easier to do for a Hylian than it is in the RIDSC. Which is particular good since the tight spacing it requires is a good compliment to the limited range of blizzard compared to an IB.
That leaves you with 3 viable options to desync into a grab setup with each one being a deceptive look in the context of a DSC derived IC play style. This is something you can't really achieve out of the dash dance desync, nor a level of deception achievable by simply playing campy, in my opinion. This also doesn't compare some of the more defensive SND options out of DSC (i.e. DSC > SND > Nana Fsmash Charge ) that essentially cover all options out of retreat. It also doesn't factor in the merit of just simply not desyncing.
The Hylian Desync is a relatively known quantity now after the thread EA made. Read it so we're all on the same page. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=287363 Also, watch the videos in this post: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11203351&postcount=13. The RIDSC is the ?? video only reversaled.
Now I wanted to do a brief discussion on the merits of doing a Hylian vs. RIDSC vs. DSC buffered turnaround.
In my mind, (feel free to disagree) the situations you would use the three are often interchangeable. They both act as an instant doubling back grab setup. The only notable difference between the two comes in terms of a trade off in frames for space.
The Hylian is done without shield drop which makes it 8 frames faster, but the RIDSC has a sliding action to it that makes the spacing a little safer.
However, if we look at it from a flow chart, you can see it's a steady progression of mixups that trade frames for spacing.
You have the buffered turnaround which can be done out of dash and run. This is fairly slow (compared to the other two being discussed), but much easier to perform. What your opponent does see however is a retreating run, followed by a shield cancel, followed by a bunch of flashing shields and dashing, which leads into a nana special.
If you condition them correctly, one of the responses that an opponent might make is to attempt to "jam" you while you attempt to pull off this desync. In that, they attempt to disrupt you by attacking the desync before you can pull off whatever setup . Which is where the RIDDSC comes in.
In this scenario, the opponent would see a retreating dash, a shield flash, and then a setup. The period of waiting for nana to dash is skipped.
However, if your opponent is then conditioned to avoid ground during every time you shield cancel, that's where the Hylian comes in. Since it's spaced much more tightly and skips the shield drop phase, it is an even further mixup along the flow chart.
So what your opponent would see in the context of a Hylian would be retreating dash, grab setup. In terms of input, blizzard is actually easier to do for a Hylian than it is in the RIDSC. Which is particular good since the tight spacing it requires is a good compliment to the limited range of blizzard compared to an IB.
That leaves you with 3 viable options to desync into a grab setup with each one being a deceptive look in the context of a DSC derived IC play style. This is something you can't really achieve out of the dash dance desync, nor a level of deception achievable by simply playing campy, in my opinion. This also doesn't compare some of the more defensive SND options out of DSC (i.e. DSC > SND > Nana Fsmash Charge ) that essentially cover all options out of retreat. It also doesn't factor in the merit of just simply not desyncing.