Advanced Techniques With Sheik?

[Layupfreak]

Hey Everyone, i am new to Advanced Techniques and Sheik! I really like how Sheik plays and i was thinking of Maining her. But the only problem is that, my friends dont really like Melee, and i have to practice against computers which are easy to kill even without Advanced Techiniques.
i Have learned how to Wavedash. and SHFFL. But i dont know when to exactly execute them, and what the point of using them are.
so if anyone can give me tips on when i should use the Advanced Techniques and how please let my know.

Any videos would help(from youtube).
and i dont need the How to play advanced video b/c ive seen it before. thanks!

 

[Zankoku]

TGM had a thread full of vids, and it's still stickied.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=101263

 

[Drephen]

dooooooooowwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnssssssssmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaassssshhhhhhhhhh

 

[CopyCat]

Don't forget gggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaabbbbbbbbssssssssss.

 

[einthesuperdog]

I think what Drephan and Copycat are trying to tell you is that sheik isn't a super technical character. Or maybe they just like downsmashing and grabbing. Her WD and SHFFL are not as useful as with other characters, but they speed you up so they're still important. In general you should be doing the advanced techs all the time so that they become second nature, but more specifically you could jump cancel and/or dash attack cancel and you'll be able to ggggggggggrrrrrrraaaaaab better. Hope this helps

 

[ArcNatural]

Don't forget that L-canceling and fast-falling applies to every aerial A attack that will have the attack animation land on the ground. L-canceling will speed up your game considerably on dairs (other's aren't as noticeable but will help).

Dash-dancing is also a useful tactic to learn. I recommend learning it with Sheik because it will make your left hand faster and if you can dashdance well with Sheik you can easily smash DI Fox's upthrow to upair which can be a major Sheik killer at times. It also works well if your trying to bait a spot dodge or slightly change your dash attack or shffl spacing.

 

[cablepuff]

spacing with forward smash.

 

[Shack]

foward smash usually gets u shield grabbed. Its usually only good if the person doesnt tech. And it doesnt do much damage, so ur better off doing something else safer adn quicker.

 

[brickman]

Learn how to wave land really well. Helps for moving across the platforms and setting up some decent combos. I usually do wave lands off platforms into b-air's to grabs. Ensuing combo's are of your own creative will.

Oh yea, also learn how to do reverse needles. It comes in handy on the edges and for some really cool combo set ups. Hopefully I will finally get some video's up of me this year for some applications of these things.

 

[h1roshi]

nope, she has none...peace

-hiroshi

 

[Slightlyvicious]

lol i changed my main to samus... sheik is still awesome tho

 

[4 Aces]

dash attack cancel and you'll be able to ggggggggggrrrrrrraaaaaab better. Hope this helps

What is dash attack cancel? Is it just another term for jc'd grabs?

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

You dash attack, and then instantly hit z. It cancels the dash attack, and replaces it with a grab with an extended hit box. I believe everyone can do it, but Sheik really benefits from it.

Advance techs include all the stupid needle tricks, platform dashing (watch Forward and Plank to understand what I mean), and vanish tricks (which really just boils down to the sliding edge vanish, and the Shine Ledge Stall).

 

[4 Aces]

Oh! It's like what the people on the Fox boards call a boost grab! Which one has a better grab range? The jump canceled or the dash attack canceled? Doesn't the jc grab have a longer range than the regular dashed grab, but is shorter than the dash attack canceled? Which one is more useful?

 

[Takumaru]

Techinically the dash grab has longer ranger because you do the initial part of the dash attack which covers a suprising distance; its range is close to link's hookshot as far as how far away you can be when you start the dashgrab IIRC. However if you space it poorly you go past the other player and leave yourself open. JC grab... I don't use it so I don't know, I think it has less lag after the animation finishes or something like that but don't quote me on that.

 

[4 Aces]

So you're saying to hit z or whatever during the dash animation to maximize reach. Am I getting that straight?

Would you say the boost grab (dash attack canceled grab) has longer range over the regular dash grab?

Just wondering.

 

[Sssurivad]

It does have farther range than the dash grab. But you always want to JC your grabs when dashing because it comes out faster than the dash grab and has less lag if you miss. Basically, JC grabs mean that you can do a standing grab while dashing, which is faster.

 

[Metà]

Needle cancels are useful for combos and such. Also, vanish stalls and vanish edgehog are useful maneuvers.

Those are pretty much Sheik's hardest tech skills, lol.

 

[einthesuperdog]

It does have farther range than the dash grab. But you always want to JC your grabs when dashing because it comes out faster than the dash grab and has less lag if you miss. Basically, JC grabs mean that you can do a standing grab while dashing, which is faster.

I have to disagree on this one. I find the boost grab's range to be very helpful especially when trying to get in before an opponent's attack comes out, but ideally you should be mixing it up in order to throw them off. Try to work out the timing on both and decide for yourself. However I think most will agree that you should use JC grabs for chain-grabbing.

 

[APImagine]

Why is Sheik's WD and SHFFL not as useful?

 

[4 Aces]

I have to disagree on this one. I find the boost grab's range to be very helpful especially when trying to get in before an opponent's attack comes out, but ideally you should be mixing it up in order to throw them off. Try to work out the timing on both and decide for yourself. However I think most will agree that you should use JC grabs for chain-grabbing.

So you're saying that yes, the JC grab is faster than the boost, but the range of the boost grab is good enough in it's own way to be a fast action to grab an enemy while avoiding their hitbox (or before it comes out?)? Sorry if I'm not explaining my question well.

Why is Sheik's WD and SHFFL not as useful?

Um, I don't know why people are saying that Sheik's WD isn't good. Perhaps it has something to do with the distance? I think it's pretty good since it goes at a considerable distance and is very fast, so you can pull it off faster and therefore do it multiple times.

Concerning the SHFFL: They're alright and are pretty useful, but just like Samus's SHFFL, they're a tad slow, because of both of their unusually high SH. This makes their SHFFl game a tad less abusive and useful - not as useful as a character whose SH is closer to the ground i.e. Captain Falcon and Fox.

 

[Zankoku]

What the heck are you people talking about? The JC grab, if done perfectly, is exactly as fast as a normal running grab, and 1/60 of a second faster than a boost grab. The big difference is that the JC grab has 1/6 second less lag if you miss your grab.

 

[einthesuperdog]

Regarding her SHFFL, it has been widely discussed how her SH is higher than average. This naturally makes her SHFFL slower, and combined with the nature of her attacks she just has fewer choices of action when SHFFLing. Compare that to Marth or Fox's SHFFL which can be chained to move an opponent across the stage or quickly comboed into another attack. That's not to say it's useless though. I'm personally fond of going the fair-->jab-->grab route.

Now with her WD the issue of her attacks comes up again. She just doesn't have a move like Mario's bair that requires WD to move the opponent, and she doesn't use it to move around and lead into attacks like ICs or Marth. And again this doesn't mean that one shouldn't use it, just be smart about it.

That's my 2 cents anyhow. Maybe a higher level player will have something more/different to say, but I hope this helps

 

[einthesuperdog]

So you're saying that yes, the JC grab is faster than the boost, but the range of the boost grab is good enough in it's own way to be a fast action to grab an enemy while avoiding their hitbox (or before it comes out?).

What i'm saying is, you can start the boost grab sooner because of it's longer range. So given the same starting point when approaching, a boost grab would be able to hit sooner because it would be started from a greater distance than the JC grab.

 

[4 Aces]

What i'm saying is, you can start the boost grab sooner because of it's longer range. So given the same starting point when approaching, a boost grab would be able to hit sooner because it would be started from a greater distance than the JC grab.

Oh! Okay, I get what you mean. Thanks for the info. (Ankoku, you too). I use grabs and all, but I'm not well-versed in the specifics of them, so now I have a somewhat better understanding of them.

 

[einthesuperdog]

i'm glad i could help

 

[soap]

dooooooooowwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnssssssssmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaassssshhhhhhhhhh

learn some new moves you typecast mother****er

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

JC Grabs are probably better than DC Grabs. JC grabs cancel into a standing grab, which are your fastest grab.

 

[brickman]

ughhhh

just watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpNiClgJcjM