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Advanced Techniques that are useful for Ness

Ademisk

Smash Champion
Joined
May 4, 2007
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Location
Kirkland, Washington
I've decided to do a compilation of Advance Techniques that work especially well for Ness. Hooray. Seriously, can anyone help me out by posting video for me? That'd be fantastic. I can send you the video through Brawl, I just need someone to capture it and put it on youtube or something. Thank you.


Pivot Smash -

COMPLETELY NEW INFO, SO GOOD.

This attack is very easy to do now that I've discovered something about it. The backwards movement is completely useless. All you have to do is press forward to go into an initial dash animation and then press forward, and F-smash at the same time, as soon as the initial dash would usually end. Simple as that. You'll go straight from the dash into a f-smash. You can also do this ANYTIME mid-dash by pressing forward and F-smash at the same time, though there's some lag. Yay!


B-Sticking -

It's also called Wavebouncing, but that's ********.

Basically, this requires a completely different control configuration to do perfectly. What you do is go into your control scheme for the Gamecube controller and change it the C-stick from Smash to Special.

To do the technique is very simple. If you are in the air, and moving a certain direction, you need to use a Special in the opposite direction. You can do this easiest with Ness's PK Fire. Let's say you jump into the air towards the right of the stage. If you then smash the C-stick to the Left, Ness's will PK Fire to the left, and move a significant distance in that direction. This is harder to do with up B and down B where you have to use your C-stick in a diagonal direction, and especially neutral B, which requires a specific angle, although you'll often accidentally do a neutral B instead of a Down B, so be careful.

While this IS possible without changing your C-stick to Special, it's also significantly more difficult(IE, you have to use PK Fire on the right, and then move your Control stick to the left before PK Fire starts in order to get it to work)

This takes away your C-stick for both aerials and smashes, so if you're really used to using those....I wouldn't do this.


Reverse Aerial Rush -


This one is probably the easiest of the three techniques listed so far. It's basically like pivot smashing in terms of how to pull it off. Basically, during a dash, let's say you're approaching someone and you want to do a bair instead of an fair. Well, to do that, you'd have to turn completely around, waste time, and tell the opponent EXACTLY what you're planning to do.

Instead, what you're going to do is, in the middle of the dash, you are going to quickly press the opposite direction you are currently dashing, and then jump, and immediately press forward again. So basically it'll be ----<J> where the ----- is your dash. This will put you in a position facing the opposite direction you were dashing, but your momentum will still be exactly the same. So you can dash at the enemy, and do a Reverse Aerial Rush(RAR) Bair.

Extremely useful for Ness, no? You can also pull off mindgames with this by turning it into a dair or uair instead of a bair.


Skid Mindgames -

When you're in the middle of a dash, and you try to turn around, you do that wierd skid animation and it keeps you from dashing for a second right? Well, I've found some fun stuff you can do out of that, that's just really fun. We'll start with the basics.

First off, this is the animation that allows you to do the RAR that I mentioned above. If you jump about of this animation, even though you were previously facing the other direction, you'll jump facing the opposite direction you were moving.

Now, if you don't want to jump in this situation, there's a few things you can do. First off, try this out for fun. As you're skidding, JUST as you start dashing again, use the C-stick to fsmash in the opposite direction you're now facing, the direction you were originally dashing. If you time it JUST right, you'll slide across the ground in the direction you were going to dash very slightly, and f-smash at the same time, kind of like a retreating F-smash. Unfortunately, the game won't allow you to f-smash forward, but the retreating one has mindgames of its own. You can actually do this with dsmash, upsmash, all tilts(although to do a forward tilt you need to press forward twice during this, or set your C-stick to attack)and even your jab. The F-smash is probably the most useful use of this though.

If you WANT to do a F-smash in the same direction you skid, you can stop the skid by doing something similiar to a pivot smash. Basically, as soon as you start skidding, you just have to press <>< at the speed required to do a dash dance, and then F-smash in any direction, as this will cancel out the skid into a dash dance instantly, and the dash dance will be cancelled into the F-smash. This is good for dealing with any issues which pop up, like an enemy who approached sooner and faster than expected, or a projectile.

Onto other uses of the skid, this one being one of my favorites, is the abiility to go directly from a skid into a new starting dash animation(like the one needed to do a pivot smash). Basically, as you're skidding, as soon as the skid ends, you want to press the same direction you were dashing before, the opposite of the direction you're facing now. As if you were standing still, you'll shoot off into your starting dash animation. And yes, you guessed you, you can use this out of a skid to do a pivot smash in that direction.

Think about it, you're running towards the enemy, and all of a sudden you skid. Of course the enemy thinks "He's turning around, he's vulnerable! I should attack now" When all of a sudden you turn around in an instant and there's a bat in his face. It's also very useful to do this into a dash attack, IE, dash right, skid left, and then immediately dash attack to the right. This is much safer and easier than doing a pivot smash, though probably not as powerful, depending on whether or not you're capable of following it up.

In addition, you can do consecutive skids, back and forth without going directly into a dash animation. This is extremely good for spacing attacks, and can be used to draw your enemy towards you. Since they can be used in ANY of the manners above, they can be extremely useful for baiting your enemy into an unseen attack. However, there is a MAJOR downside to this strategy, and that is....THAT IT IS EXTREMELY VULNERABLE TO TRIPPING. Yeah...be careful.
 

thesage

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Well, there's this new dd thing I discovered.

Basically Ness' turn around animation is much shorter than in melee so you can dd by using that. As you already know from the op u can cancel your pivot with anything (even a dash yes). Basically you can do this dd then dash, then dd again. Unfortunately it's hard to control and will take some time to use properly.
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
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Feb 16, 2006
Messages
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I hate long names. And I can't get RAR to work. And Ademisk suicides. (a lot)
 

Ademisk

Smash Champion
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Kirkland, Washington
It has nothing to do with anything....except it's too long.


And Annoying, you're not doing it fast enough. Look, if you're in the middle of a dash, and your press the opposite direction you're running, you'll turn around, right? And have a big amount of lag and everything. Just jump right as you turn around, and then press in the same direction you were moving, you'll keep moving the same direction you were dashing, but in the opposite direction.
 

Levitas

the moon
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Oh, if you'd be willing to talk about Ness specific techniques, it's cool that you can aim for a tailwhip for a greater effect in brawl. Basically, the tail is actually so long that you can trap them in it while circling the PKT around to hit them with the bolt.

Also, snaking is really good now.

And Ness belongs on the ground most of the time. His aerial game isn't as good as in melee.
 
Joined
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I have to agree with Ademisk that Ness has a great aerial game, I would of never been attracted to him if he didnt.

I tried out all of these last night. I found RAR fairly easy to do, took maybe 5 minutes for me to be able to pull it off 95% of the time. I already used his bair alot, so it's great having another way to quickly use it.

I tried b-sticking without setting it to the c-stick, and even though I think I was doing it right, it didnt seem to give Ness any backwards momentum with PK-Fire. I'll try them all again with the c-stick later.

I couldnt seem to get the Pivot Step to work. I didn't know what a foxtrot was last night(I do now), so I can try that again, but it seems that no matter what part of the dash I tried pushing backwards, then forward into a c-stick fsmash, it wouldnt go fast enough for him to either do the fsmash, or do it facing forwards.

Like I said, I can still record them for you if you want me to. I could also record myself doing them once I get them all down.
 

Ademisk

Smash Champion
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Not on a camcorder, I want good video.

And it's VERY hard to explain how to do the pivot smash. The timing is very specific. You flick forward, and then flick back and forth quickly followed by the C-stick. I can only do it about 70% of the time.



Though, SGMG, if you get the timing down, if you could record video of your hands doing it, that would be helpful.
 

NessOnett

Smash Journeyman
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Dec 15, 2007
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NY
ive gotten the pivot smash to work about 10% of the time, but i'm not using the c-stick, i'm doing it the old-fashioned way(which makes it MUCH harder)...if i'm doing it right at all. RAR is all but mastered, that one didn't take long at all. I still don't quite grasp the B-sticking with fire, i guess i'll have to see it.

I don't know if you could call this an advanced technique or just common sense that most people don't put together themselves but: with the aerial dodge changed from melee, there is a very simple new approach method that works very well with Ness so far in my experience. Run straight towards your opponent, then at just the tip of their range, short-hop, and aerial dodge immediately. If they take the bait they will have attacked and missed, you will be right behind them and a b-air will hit them in the back. I use this staggered with my RAR so that the enemy doesn't know which way i will be attacking, and it mixes up enough so that i connect more and they can't predict. Works better on shorter range/slower characters(so this won't help much against Marth unfortunately), but still useful against many. Hope this helps someone.
 

PK Starstorm

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well, i saw fox doing this, and so i tried it. i used psi magnet to slow down my fall and then fast fell into a spike. worked pretty well. ness is a bit on the heavy side when it comes to this. lucas seems lighter, so he floats a bit longer when i do this. I deactivat and then reactivat the magnet. kinda like fox with his aerial shine.
 
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If only Ness' magnet did anything similar to Fox, it'd be great seeing Ness do his own version of a shinedrill.

I messed around with b-sticking more, and I found PK Fire alot easier to use in the air with b-sticking. Maybe it's because I didn't really learn how to time it in melee though.
 

Levitas

the moon
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Lol, Bsticking is for lucas only pretty much, and even then, it's easier to do it normally (without the bstick) and use the stick for smashes/aerials.
 

eyestrain92

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Definately useful if I can get some practice on it... Shorthopped Bairs facing forward is nice. No longer just his knockback lacking Fair. Three methods of approach and bouncing between them to avoid damage deterioration seems like a great little game.
 

Ref

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I'm surprised nobody mentioned this yet.

Ness can STILL tail whip.
 

Ademisk

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..........oh, my god, you are like the king of useless comments on things everyone else and their mother already knows.

No, no, I'm sorry, you can be new, and not know things yet, but he does this every single time he posts, why don't you try reading some threads before you post and actually come up with something semi-intelligent and useful to talk about?
 

thesage

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Well out of sheild d-smash is pretty good. Actually I prefer his d-smash to his u-smash in some situations. Charge it against sheilds ftw.
 

Aiemond

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Ok, i want to get some clarification for pivot canceling. Now, he does not move while doing the fsmash does he? I can dash then immediatly fsmash but he stops moving when he fsmashes. is this correct?
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
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Yeah, there's an advanced technique that increases certain character's fsmash range a lot, I forget the name...
 

Ademisk

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Stutter step is like a shorter version of the pivot smash, but it's quicker, and allows you to do tipper smashes outside of what would usually be your range.

Pivot Smashes has you move the distance of your initial dash, don't actually go INTO the dash, you just want to tap Forward, not hold it down, but you want to go into that initial dash, as if you'd just tapped forward and then let go, except when you press backwards, forwards, Smash, you'll end the initial dash directly in an fsmash, much sooner than would usuaully be possible.
 

Duggish

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Nice thread, Ademisk...

RAR's are a great addition to anyone's arsenal...stutter stepping/playing with pivots helps connect with that bat of his, although the timing on some of that skid stuff is pretty wierd
 

N.OW

Smash Journeyman
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Foxtrot and RAR are the only advanced techs i have found useful with Ness so far. Pivot smash is pretty useless for me but I have had success just running away and "pivot" pk firing the opposite way im running.
 

Earthbound360

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^^^
Really? I must be doing it wrong then cuz I go about 1 dash anoimation forward.

Quick question. If I take stick jumping off, can I still JC and upsmash out of shield and dash?

And has anyone tried ledge wavebouncing? I think it works great. You grab the edge and jump off of it holding forward. Wavebounce back at the right time and you will grab the edge again. The PK fire will go down at an angle and hit edgeguarders, and Ness' lag will be canceled by grabbing the ledge. And it provides invicibility frames as well.
 

Esotu

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Earthbound360, I've tried the ledge wavebouncing you mentioned. I have to agree that it works extremely well, especially against the people who ledge guard in my dorm a lot. They hardly expect it. If they do, then I mind game them with my PKT.
 

Earthbound360

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Good to hear that!

Oh, and I didnt discover this, but I thought I should mention it. A MUCH easier way to RAR is to set specials to the C-stick. Now run towards your enemy and push the c-stick in the opposite direction you are running. This will cause your character to short hop backwards with seemingly even more dash momnetum than a basic RAR. Follow up with an aerial.

Let me tell you guys about the Z button from Melee to brawl. In both games, the Z button grabbed right? That's a combination of the shield and attack buttons. In melee, if you pressed Z in the air, the Attack function outprioritized the shield function and you did an aerial. In Brawl now though, that has changed. Z still is grab, and its still a combo of attack and shield, but now, the shield function overpowers the attack. So I can no longer use Z to do aerials.

Why am I telling you this? Well because if your like me, you'll RARing with the C-stick method mentioned above is much more effective than basic RARing, but the aerial is a bit hard to pull off with the A button. If you change Z to attack, it seems like you can use the aerial attack quicker than A since you are using the index finger and you dont have to quickl shift you thunb from C to A. You may wanna change grab to one of those extra shield or jump buttons. I personally have changed Y to grab and I've been doing fine.

Nothing new or anything, but a suggestion and an easier way to RAR which seems more effective IMO.
 

Ademisk

Smash Champion
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Kirkland, Washington
No No No.


I am going to clear up the confusion. Earthbound360, you were doing the pivot smashing right.

Duggish was asking about STUTTER STEPPING, which is a bit different. Stutter stepping has you move about the distance of one of Ness's feet by pressing forward and then smash a second after. You start to step, and then stop, it gives you a VERY small distance.

With the Pivot Smash, you start going into a dash animation, and then end it directly in a forward smash. In my opinion, a much more useful technique than the stutter step.

And I hate calling it wavebouncing, as there's no wave, and it's not REALLY a bounce.
 

Earthbound360

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Hey Ademisk, do u know the answer to my above question about jump cancelling?
I seem to be able to do it out of a dash, but not out of sheild. Should I turn tap jumping back on?

And okay, wavebouncing does sound silly, but where did wavedashing come from also? Its not much of a dash but more of a standstill slide.
 
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