Adding New Characters

[TimSin]

I've seen videos like "What if Luigi had an endless wavedash?", and "What if Peach could use her DSmash in the air?". If you can edit characters this much, I don't see why you can't add someone like Lucina (replacing Marth) using texture hacks plus modifying how much knockback/ damage the move does?
P.S. Excuse me, I have no idea about anything Melee hacking, so I could be talking bull**** for all I know.

 

[Ampers]

I've seen videos like "What if Luigi had an endless wavedash?", and "What if Peach could use her DSmash in the air?". If you can edit characters this much, I don't see why you can't add someone like Lucina (replacing Marth) using texture hacks plus modifying how much knockback/ damage the move does?
P.S. Excuse me, I have no idea about anything Melee hacking, so I could be talking bull**** for all I know.

Well it's not quite that simple. Modifying the attributes of a move/character is a cinch, but modifying a model (as far I'm aware) is still not something that we can do in Melee. Texture mods on the other are quite simple to implement, which is why earlier in this thread we were talking about how it would be feasible to make a Dark Samus mod. This wouldn't require any model revisions, only modding the textures and then editing the attributes of her moves and such.

 

[Achilles1515]

I've seen videos like "What if Luigi had an endless wavedash?", and "What if Peach could use her DSmash in the air?". If you can edit characters this much, I don't see why you can't add someone like Lucina (replacing Marth) using texture hacks plus modifying how much knockback/ damage the move does?
P.S. Excuse me, I have no idea about anything Melee hacking, so I could be talking bull**** for all I know.

You can't change a pen1s to a vag1na without model hacking...
Texture hacks are not changing shapes.

 

[Ampers]

..........

 

[TimSin]

...........

 

[IAmProPAGANda]

...........

 

[MagicScrumpy]

I've seen videos like "What if Luigi had an endless wavedash?", and "What if Peach could use her DSmash in the air?". If you can edit characters this much, I don't see why you can't add someone like Lucina (replacing Marth) using texture hacks plus modifying how much knockback/ damage the move does?
P.S. Excuse me, I have no idea about anything Melee hacking, so I could be talking bull**** for all I know.

Both of those mods were very easy to make. Those kinds of changes would be ones necessary to make a custom character given the knowledge on Melee hacking we have now.

Custom model stuff would be really sick :>

 

[Schiffe]

Changing an entire character in Melee? Seems like we're able to partially change the moveset of one, so I wouldn't see how it wouldn't be possible.

Altough, like it was mentioned before, custom animations and custom models are our main issue here and it will be tackled in quite some time [but worry not, that time does not equal to a distant 20XX future].

I've always wondered why was the Melee hacking scene not fully developed until recently. Looking at SSBB, it took a few years (3-5?) before seeing fully customized characters and that game came way after Melee. Does anybody know why has nobody never bothered to try and go further into Melee hacking?

(I would guess the difficulty of the task, procrastination or just "not worth it" as a motive)

 

[Tater]

Both of those mods were very easy to make. Those kinds of changes would be ones necessary to make a custom character given the knowledge on Melee hacking we have now.

Custom model stuff would be really sick :>

I'm rooting around animation files to see if I can be of any help with that

 

[Ampers]

So I'm pretty much entirely in the dark when it comes to the melee scene's collective knowledge on animation modding. Has there been any progress on it? Have people been able to modify animations at all (without just swapping it that is)?

 

[Tater]

So I'm pretty much entirely in the dark when it comes to the melee scene's collective knowledge on animation modding. Has there been any progress on it? Have people been able to modify animations at all (without just swapping it that is)?

So far I've used Crazy Hand to randomize the bytes in Bowser's jab. The only thing I can confirm is different so far is that it crashes if you hit A while he's in his jab animation if the randomization is bad.

Randomization was more of a test to see if I was headed in the right direction, and I think I am.

There appears to be some sort of format in the animations, so maybe I can figure out what it means and go from there.

As a side note: The animations in this game are super wonky already so it's hard to tell differences unless you know exactly how they're supposed to look normally.

Spoiler

The developers sure did make bowser's animations macho, though. Too bad the rest of his design is pathetic.

 

[GopherHat]

You can't change a pen1s to a vag1na without model hacking...
Texture hacks are not changing shapes.

sheik & zelda tho

 

[Ampers]

sheik & zelda tho

They have different models, bruh.

 

[Achilles1515]

I once modified C. Falcon’s taunt by copying 4 bytes from the animation data and pasting this value over the next couple lines. The result was lifting one of his legs off the ground, up behind him. I dubbed it the “falcon gay taunt” but then deleted the file.

 

[Fakes]

What about vertex mods? something I know nothing about (disclaimer).
If we can give Falcon bat ears and Pikachu super saiyan hair, why can't we make Marth look like Lucina?

I have a feeling somebody is going to tell me that the Batman Falcon skin is just his helmet being stretched or something...

 

[MagicScrumpy]

I assume vertex mods aren't versatile enough to cleanly (especially considering animations) make a change as drastic as changing Marth's model to one of Lucina.

 

[MagicScrumpy]

I'm glancing at these animation files, and I have next to no clue as to what I'm looking at. Are there any pointers you guys have that might make this a little easier to read?

 

[Tater]

Well, I've been working on animation hacking for like 4* hours now and I've been able to make visible changes to bowser's back air.... Actually, it looks like I forgot to reset the debug camera... :/

I've got a good idea of what the animation format is, but I'm not sure yet so I can't post a guide.



I'll do more work on all this sometime that isn't now. I don't even want to look at hexadecimal anymore today.

 

[Ampers]

Well, I've been working on animation hacking for like 4* hours now and I've been able to make visible changes to bowser's back air.... Actually, it looks like I forgot to reset the debug camera... :/

I've got a good idea of what the animation format is, but I'm not sure yet so I can't post a guide.



I'll do more work on all this sometime that isn't now. I don't even want to look at hexadecimal anymore today.

Haha, I remember there were a few times back when I was spending hours and hours every day on CH where I started dreaming in hex/code...


Glad to hear you've made some progress. I'd love to see some of what you've got whenever you've rested a bit. I may be of some assistance in figuring it out. I realized the other day that I've never actually attempted to figure anything out in melee haha. I always just take what other people say for granted and work with it.

 

[Tater]

Haha, I remember there were a few times back when I was spending hours and hours every day on CH where I started dreaming in hex/code...


Glad to hear you've made some progress. I'd love to see some of what you've got whenever you've rested a bit. I may be of some assistance in figuring it out. I realized the other day that I've never actually attempted to figure anything out in melee haha. I always just take what other people say for granted and work with it.

I lied when I said I was done for the day. I'm never satisfied until I get results, so I just had to keep trying...

I. Just. Had. To.

and look at what I caused

I'm a monster.

I need an exorcist and a therapist.

 

[GopherHat]

I'm reporting you to the police

 

[Ampers]

oh my.....

 

[Cyjorg]

You guys have the motivation to figure out how to add new characters and you settle for trying to add Lucina? lol

 

[GopherHat]

mate I want to give sandbag the moveset he deserves.

 

[Ampers]

Well I don't think that anybody truly settled on creating Lucina, it was just a suggestion somebody made.

However I would TOTALLY be down for adding Lucina. On the rare occasions that I play Smash 4, she's the only character I play because I find her design so hilariously lazy.

 

[CeLL]

I think we're all forgetting the whole CSS limitation, unless the plan is to add them like 20XX Giga/Wireframes.

 

[TerryJ]

I think we're all forgetting the whole CSS limitation, unless the plan is to add them like 20XX Giga/Wireframes.

Would it be possible to use the Wireframes character slot and replace it's character model, animations and moveset from another character? We could use that as a base to create a couple extra characters selectable through Achilles' Z method and then modify them from that point on with custom content.

 

[MagicScrumpy]

Bruh, adding Birdo in as a custom character should be top priority.

 

[Tater]

Hopefully not too off topic, but does anyone know if there's a database that list a character's bone IDs? I'm working on figuring out the format for animations and I think I've found a foothold but without knowing a character's bone IDs I can't be sure. I've done some work documenting Bowser's bones on my own, but it's slow going with 50+ bones...

 

[Achilles1515]

Hopefully not too off topic, but does anyone know if there's a database that list a character's bone IDs? I'm working on figuring out the format for animations and I think I've found a foothold but without knowing a character's bone IDs I can't be sure. I've done some work documenting Bowser's bones on my own, but it's slow going with 50+ bones...

That one hitbox spreadsheet by Magus has bone IDs. Idk if theyre exactly what you're looking for or talking about, though.

 

[Tater]

That one hitbox spreadsheet by Magus has bone IDs. Idk if theyre exactly what you're looking for or talking about, though.

It wasn't exactly what I was looking for, but it did confirm some data I had that I wasn't sure about.

And that section about item hitboxes that includes the pointers to actual code for items/pokemon... Mmmh. I'm gonna have fun with that once I crack animations. Thanks for the tip

 

[MagicScrumpy]

How likely is it that cracking animations may lead into cracking the model format so that we can implement custom models? I assume it isn't very likely, but I would be surprised if one weren't at least some sort of basis for the other.

 

[CeLL]

How likely is it that cracking animations may lead into cracking the model format so that we can implement custom models? I assume it isn't very likely, but I would be surprised if one weren't at least some sort of basis for the other.

I'm pretty sure that 1) animations are only movements of bones, no relation to the models, and 2) we understand most of how the models work.

 

[MagicScrumpy]

There goes my everything.

I didn't realize we understood so much about the models; I was not very sure how far model research and things such as Tcll's converter had gone. I guess you learn something new every day.

 

[CeLL]

There goes my everything.

I didn't realize we understood so much about the models; I was not very sure how far model research and things such as Tcll's converter had gone. I guess you learn something new every day.

I know that @ Tcll can get decent looking exported models of a bunch of model files.

 

[MagicScrumpy]

I'm sorry for being under a rock about this sort of thing, but is there anything on importing models with Melee-usable bone structures?

I'm really interested in this sort of stuff; if I knew anything at all about how to do this sort of thing, I would offer him a hand.

 

[CeLL]

I'm sorry for being under a rock about this sort of thing, but is there anything on importing models with Melee-usable bone structures?

I'm really interested in this sort of stuff; if I knew anything at all about how to do this sort of thing, I would offer him a hand.

I think all we can do with the actual game files atm is read them and edit the coordinates of vertices.

 

[Tater]

I think all we can do with the actual game files atm is read them and edit the coordinates of vertices.

Do you know if the data for a character's model is just somewhere inside Pl*.dat or if it's in a different file like Pl*Nr.dat?

If I'm digging around in animation data(Which is slow going, but still progressing. I think I may have found two scripts the game calls for animation files, but I'm not entirely sure what their parameters are) I might as well dig around in the model data while I'm at it.

 

[MagicScrumpy]

Do you know if the data for a character's model is just somewhere inside Pl*.dat or if it's in a different file like Pl*Nr.dat?

If I'm digging around in animation data(Which is slow going, but still progressing. I think I may have found two scripts the game calls for animation files, but I'm not entirely sure what their parameters are) I might as well dig around in the model data while I'm at it.

I just asked @ Tcll (huge shoutouts to him btw); here's what he has to say about it:

So model data are stored in files such as PlFxNr.dat.

 

[Tcll]

for technical info about the format, see here
http://wiki.tockdom.com/wiki/HAL_DAT_(File_Format)

if you don't understand much, I'll try to clarify, just ask

EDIT:

I know that @ Tcll can get decent looking exported models of a bunch of model files.

well, not exactly exported, the best I'm doing is importing them into UMC...
I can't quite import everything flawlessly...

I'm currently having issues trying to convert the supplied LRS coords into a MTX44...
copied Brbx's src directly and not even that works...

EDIT2:
obtw, credit to @revel8n here