About Grounded Footstool Confirms.

[DarkDeity15]

Any character with throwable items can confirm a footstool with a Dthrowed item, which most of you have already known was possible in past games. Some characters are able to confirm their Dairs or other moves out of footstool as well. In this game, Robin, Jump Art Shulk, Jump Art Kirby, Shiek, Greninja, R.O.B., Dark Pit, Pit, Lucario, Meta Knight and Wario are the ones I've been able to footstool>Dair reliably with so far. Moves other than Dairs that can connect with a grounded footstool include Zelda, Pac-Man (all Dspecials), Captain Falcon (all Dspecials), and Ganon's down specials. You can only do this if you're falling further into the opposing character and Dair immediately after footstooling. You don't need to fall much into the character with R.O.B., Shiek, Greninja, Wario, Lucario or MK though. A lot of weather you'll be able to do it or not can be widely matchup dependent as well, so keep that in mind. I found most of these using Bowser.

This can provide for some nice setups/followups for select characters. Know that if the character you're footstooling is doing anything other than idling, walking or runing, you'll full hop footstool automatically and the character will continue doing that action undisturbed, so I suppose that's where item throwers have it better. Also know that all characters jump lower each time they footstool, so some characters can only connect their move after the first footstool if they can stay airborn such as Ike and Zelda's Dair by their 2nd footstool. I can assume though that landing a footstool more than once per airtime will be challenging and usually not worth the effort for most characters who can't land a hit off of their first footstool right off the bat.

One question for the more experienced though. What confirms/followups have you guys been able to find out of aerial footstools without items? Its really hard to test out because I don't have a reliable partner and CPUs will always fly away from you, making things a lot more difficult than they should be. I've found a few already though like Greninja and MK's Dair for starters. Feel free to discuss. Let me know if there's anything I should add as well. I'll be adding more information as time goes on.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Wow, didn't know that about Jump Art Kirby. It seems that Jump Art Kirby can Footstool > D-Air > U-Tilt Strings > U-Air Strings, which racks up quite a bit of damage. If done efficiently, you could even carry Shulk up into the boundaries with U-Air Strings. This also sets up D-Smash kills, which is amazing.

Thanks for this find!

 

[popsofctown]

Nayru's love is the secretest of tech (grounded footstool, cancels upward moment)

Unless it changed from Brawl, you can footstool someone who is shielding and "disturb" them, so that's a pretty relevant action to add.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Nayru's love is the secretest of tech (grounded footstool, cancels upward moment)

Unless it changed from Brawl, you can footstool someone who is shielding and "disturb" them, so that's a pretty relevant action to add.

Yeah that's not possible in this game. The character's shield will stay up and you'll do an automatic fullhop footstool, unlike in Brawl. Also, Rob and Lucario's Dair cancel their upward momentum a lot like Zelda's down special after footstooling (and yes, I'll add that for sure). Lucario's in particular is really good and it isn't hard to perform at all.

 

[Judo777]

I'm like 95% sure that footstooling a shielding opponent did not lower their shield in brawl.

 

[DarkDeity15]

I'm like 95% sure that footstooling a shielding opponent did not lower their shield in brawl.

I don't remember much of Brawl since I haven't played it in over a year. Thanks for pointing that out though. Did it force you to fullhop footstool in Brawl too though?

 

[popsofctown]

I'm like 95% sure that footstooling a shielding opponent did not lower their shield in brawl.

Maybe just PM. I'm pretty sure I remember testing it in at least PM, but I'm fallible.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Maybe just PM. I'm pretty sure I remember testing it in at least PM, but I'm fallible.

It's definitely in Project M, though they'll be removing that in 3.5.

 

[Judo777]

I don't remember much of Brawl since I haven't played it in over a year. Thanks for pointing that out though. Did it force you to fullhop footstool in Brawl too though?

Yes I believe so.

 

[Masonomace]

Nice thread @ DarkDeity15 , I dig grounded footstool setups myself & have always enjoyed using Lucario's D-air out of footstool as well. There are some grounded footstool setups with some Down-Bs & even Up-Bs that are guaranteed, including Custom Specials.

Grounded Footstool > Down-B's that I can list off:

• Falcon Kick
• Falcon Kick Fury (Custom #1)
• Lightning Falcon Kick (Custom #2) (This follows up to several attacks because of the long hit-stun they're in, like F-air or Falcon Dive)

(I guess you could say the same for Ganondorf's Down-B since it's so similar to Falcon's, but I didn't test them personally)
I believe all 3 would be guaranteed, but don't take my word for it unless a Ganon main who's experimented with this says so.

Grounded Footstool > Up-B's that I can list off:
(sort of. . ) Air Slash's hit-box starts low, so this is why Air Slash can connect after a grounded footstool, but when footstooling from behind, you B-Reverse the Air Slash to make it connect; regular facing Air Slash if footstool from the front.

• Air Slash (The consistency is awkward, because apparently which way you're facing affects the setup. Oddly footstooling them from behind is more successful but for now only the 1st hit connects for me)
• Advancing Air Slash (Custom #1) (This is more consistent when connecting both hits, when behind them footstool that is. More testing is needed on this but I can say this follows up quite nicely than Air Slash does)

 

[Azazel]

Nice thread @ DarkDeity15 , I dig grounded footstool setups myself & have always enjoyed using Lucario's D-air out of footstool as well. There are some grounded footstool setups with some Down-Bs & even Up-Bs that are guaranteed, including Custom Specials.

Grounded Footstool > Down-B's that I can list off:

• Falcon Kick
• Falcon Kick Fury (Custom #1)
• Lightning Falcon Kick (Custom #2) (This follows up to several attacks because of the long hit-stun they're in, like F-air or Falcon Dive)

(I guess you could say the same for Ganondorf's Down-B since it's so similar to Falcon's, but I didn't test them personally)
I believe all 3 would be guaranteed, but don't take my word for it unless a Ganon main who's experimented with this says so.

Grounded Footstool > Up-B's that I can list off:
(sort of. . ) Air Slash's hit-box starts low, so this is why Air Slash can connect after a grounded footstool, but when footstooling from behind, you B-Reverse the Air Slash to make it connect; regular facing Air Slash if footstool from the front.

• Air Slash (The consistency is awkward, because apparently which way you're facing affects the setup. Oddly footstooling them from behind is more successful but for now only the 1st hit connects for me)
• Advancing Air Slash (Custom #1) (This is more consistent when connecting both hits, when behind them footstool that is. More testing is needed on this but I can say this follows up quite nicely than Air Slash does)

Lel Ganon's can spike so you can footstool then suicide spike.
Gounded footstool > Warlock Kick can be teched then be punished how unfortunate for ganon.

Heres some more characters with ↓+B follow up
Pacman > Fire hydrant
Fox > Shine

Also Peach can do anything out of Footstool as she can cancel with float

 

[Azazel]

Don't forget About stale Footstools! the more consecutive Foolstools you do the shorter the Footstool is, thus can lead to Followups previously not Available. For example megaman he can:

• Leafshield > Ground Footstool
• Force a Get up with lemons
• Stale Aerial Footstool > lemons
• Megaman can Ground Footstool > Zdrop Metalblade
• Megaman can Zdrop Metalblade > Footstool

Put it all together Leafshield > G Footstool > Zdrop > Stale air Footstool > Lemons > Followup on Forced Get Up

Link can do something similar
G Footstool > Zdrop bomb > stale air Footstool > Nair > Follow up on forced get up

 

[Masonomace]

Pac-man's Hydrant being a guaranteed follow-up brings a smile to my face. I can't wait to utilize that option, including the Custom Hydrants too.

I'm going to go on a slight assumption that 's grounded footstool > Waft is guaranteed.

All of these characters have items so the Grounded footstool > Z-drop setups will be real, Customs or not:
= Mechakoopa
= Banana peel / Peanuts (Jumbo Peanut especially)
/ = Bomb
= Metal Blade
= Bonus Fruit
= Vegetable aka Turnip
= Gyro
/ = Tome Book & Levin Sword
/ = Wood Chip

 

[DarkDeity15]

W

Nice thread @ DarkDeity15 , I dig grounded footstool setups myself & have always enjoyed using Lucario's D-air out of footstool as well. There are some grounded footstool setups with some Down-Bs & even Up-Bs that are guaranteed, including Custom Specials.

Grounded Footstool > Down-B's that I can list off:

• Falcon Kick
• Falcon Kick Fury (Custom #1)
• Lightning Falcon Kick (Custom #2) (This follows up to several attacks because of the long hit-stun they're in, like F-air or Falcon Dive)

(I guess you could say the same for Ganondorf's Down-B since it's so similar to Falcon's, but I didn't test them personally)
I believe all 3 would be guaranteed, but don't take my word for it unless a Ganon main who's experimented with this says so.

Grounded Footstool > Up-B's that I can list off:
(sort of. . ) Air Slash's hit-box starts low, so this is why Air Slash can connect after a grounded footstool, but when footstooling from behind, you B-Reverse the Air Slash to make it connect; regular facing Air Slash if footstool from the front.

• Air Slash (The consistency is awkward, because apparently which way you're facing affects the setup. Oddly footstooling them from behind is more successful but for now only the 1st hit connects for me)
• Advancing Air Slash (Custom #1) (This is more consistent when connecting both hits, when behind them footstool that is. More testing is needed on this but I can say this follows up quite nicely than Air Slash does)

I can confirm that Wizard's assault (3rd custom down special) is too slow to connect. Wizard's dropkick (2nd custom) can only connect with larger characters.

 

[Azazel]

We she also list characters that have notibly shorter stun from A grounded Footstool. if any(never really know quirky stuff are in these games like wario air release)

Pac-man's Hydrant being a guaranteed follow-up brings a smile to my face. I can't wait to utilize that option, including the Custom Hydrants too.

I'm going to go on a slight assumption that 's grounded footstool > Waft is guaranteed.

All of these characters have items so the Grounded footstool > Z-drop setups will be real, Customs or not:
= Mechakoopa
= Banana peel
/ = Bomb
= Metal Blade
= Bonus Fruit
= Vegetable aka Turnip
= Gyro
/ = Tome Book & Levin Sword
/ = Wood Chip

You Forgot to mention Diddy Kongs Peanut, Notable giant Peanut since he can catch it himself and not have to hot potato with the opponent

 

[Masonomace]

W

I can confirm that Wizard's assault (3rd custom down special) is too slow to connect. Wizard's dropkick (2nd custom) can only connect with larger characters.

Very educational, thanks for sharing that. I had decent hopes for Wizard's Assault but owell.

We she also list characters that have notibly shorter stun from A grounded Footstool. if any(never really know quirky stuff are in these games like wario air release)

You Forgot to mention Diddy Kongs Peanut, Notable giant Peanut since he can catch it himself and not have to hot potato with the opponent

Ohhhh right, I didn't include Diddy because of my lack-of experience with Diddy's regular Peanut Pop-Gun ammunition being caught, which I've never seen before. Though I should of remembered the Custom called Jumbo Peanuts.

For the comment of characters having different stun times, I agree seeing that not every character has the same frames of landing lag. I'm all for this too as it helps differentiate what's truly guaranteed & what isn't.

 

[DarkDeity15]

I'll be making lists with character icons in the OP later, just so you guys know. I would like to show more than just walls of text lol.

 

[Masonomace]

Definitely, grounded & airborne footstool setups can be advantageous for knowledge of character MatchUps. Throw-able items built-in a character's move-set, & other various moves including Specials / Custom Specials make this notable.

Apparently hearing a rumor of footstool > jab / laser locks can only be done a maximum of 3 times? I have no say about this as I'm unaware of it.

 

[Azazel]

Definitely, grounded & airborne footstool setups can be advantageous for knowledge of character MatchUps. Throw-able items built-in a character's move-set, & other various moves including Specials / Custom Specials make this notable.

Apparently hearing a rumor of footstool > jab / laser locks can only be done a maximum of 3 times? I have no say about this as I'm unaware of it.

Confirmed it is true. After the third Bounce getting hit again would result in normal hitstun instead of a bounce. I was experimenting with megaman's leaf shield which can Leaf lock. 4 leaves, three bounces, last hit has them have normal hitstun to ground footstool and do a potential semi-infinite but there is no way to combo into leaf shield sadly. maybe with the several complaints that leaf shield sucks (megaman in general being under whelming) and the balance patch looming. . .

 

[DarkDeity15]

Very educational, thanks for sharing that. I had decent hopes for Wizard's Assault but owell.

Ohhhh right, I didn't include Diddy because of my lack-of experience with Diddy's regular Peanut Pop-Gun ammunition being caught, which I've never seen before. Though I should of remembered the Custom called Jumbo Peanuts.

For the comment of characters having different stun times, I agree seeing that not every character has the same frames of landing lag. I'm all for this too as it helps differentiate what's truly guaranteed & what isn't.

Makes me wish I could alalyze frame data for each character's footstool, but I don't have the tools to do so. If someone could provide it, I'd really appreciate it.

 

[Azazel]

Makes me wish I could alalyze frame data for each character's footstool, but I don't have the tools to do so. If someone could provide it, I'd really appreciate it.

Footstools bsically work like this: Once footstooled, there are a certain amount of in-actionable frames where all your inputs are null; therefore, Untechable, and you can't get up immediately. What are you asking for specifically? if different Characters have shorter or longer footstool In-actionable frames? Or if a characters Footstool is stronger than anothers E.I. inducing more In-actionable frames?
I don't think this was ever tested in brawl. weird

 

[Masonomace]

Footstools bsically work like this: Once footstooled, there are a certain amount of in-actionable frames where all your inputs are null; therefore, Untechable, and you can't get up immediately. What are you asking for specifically? if different Characters have shorter or longer footstool In-actionable frames? Or if a characters Footstool is stronger than anothers E.I. inducing more In-actionable frames?
I don't think this was ever tested in brawl. weird

Both questions were definitely in my head that were worth answering, that's for sure. That other weird variable that could be in the mix would be if held down footstool jumps were to induce more in-actionable frames because it's a stronger foot-jump, but that didn't affect the footstool animation's duration in Brawl that much if not at all.

 

[Azazel]

Strangely enough I don't think anyone ever in-depthly analyze footstools in brawl.