About Brawl's leaks and future SSB4 leaks...

[Crap-Zapper]

I know I have been predicting a lot and wishing a lot in recent months... But after the trailer and reveals, I have complelty changed.

I first was over happy to see Mega Man, and I was real pissed when I saw Wii Fit Trainer, but a few hours later, I started to take every character with an open mind, until I actually manage to play as them myself, then I will judge them..

Prediction has always been a fun thing that keep us forum members together, and speculate on stuff, even if a lot of people find it pointless, other finds it fun. And I think it should stay this way also... NO one knows what the full roster would be like, so no one could be 100% wrong with their predictions, but ofcourse we never manage to get 100% right either, but on some parts we might do get lucky..

I remember Sakurai telling that some characters were harder to create or get the permission for, so I wonder what he could be thinking here?
Since it is also said that Masahiro Sakurai listen a lot to the fanbases and what they want. So speculations comes in a lot of different ways only by saying this, like (who can he not easy get permission for? King K.Rool? 3rd Parties??) But the point is, that no one can predict anything of what that man is thinking, no one. And if you try, then good luck

As much as I think it's fun to speculate, and have a few hopes here and there, I must always keep thinking that "Whatever happends, I must always take it with an open mind" So that I or we don't hate on things we haven't even got time to try, and I think it's important to think this way. Even in the future and about other projects.

 

[Chiroz]

Did people know they were 4 chars missing?

There were leaks but no one wanted to believe them.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

There were leaks but no one wanted to believe them.

What 4 characters?

 

[Chiroz]

What 4 characters?

I think it was 4 but I cannot remember. If I am correct, none of the last 3 (Wolf, Jigglypuff and Toon Link) were released on the Brawl Dojo until after the Japanese release.

Neither was Olimar I think. I might be completely wrong. But there were some characters that weren't announced until after the release, I am sure of that at least.

Edit: Or maybe it was R.O.B. who hadn't been confirmed as a playable character, I am not sure.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Okey, well I believe too it could have been Wolf, Toon Link and Jigglypuff as they did not take any part of the story in SSE.
But 4th one I can't really tell either.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

I think it was 4 but I cannot remember. If I am correct, none of the last 3 (Wolf, Jigglypuff and Toon Link) were released on the Brawl Dojo until after the Japanese release.

Neither was Olimar I think. I might be completely wrong. But there were some characters that weren't announced until after the release, I am sure of that at least.

Edit: Or maybe it was R.O.B. who hadn't been confirmed as a playable character, I am not sure.

Okey, well I believe too it could have been Wolf, Toon Link and Jigglypuff as they did not take any part of the story in SSE.
But 4th one I can't really tell either.

I'm almost positive the four were Rob, Wolf, Toon Link, and Jigglypuff. I remember because I had no idea who Rob was, and Wolf was the last to be known. Before we found out about Wolf though, one of my friends noticed there did seem like there was a spot that would have been a perfect fit for a star fox character; we thought it was Krystal. I still think she would have had a far more interesting moveset, but oh well.

 

[SmashChu]

What? How does Mega Man being a special case mean that other 3rd party characters can't be special cases as well? Sakurai never said that there won't be any 3rd parties besides Mega Man, he said there wouldn't be a lot of them, which implies more than one.

You'd have to be pretty special then. Pac-Man isn't
[collapse=Pac-Man is at the bottom]

God Tier
· Mewtwo 688
· Megaman 605


Top Tier
· Ridley 538
· King K. Rool 527

High Tier

· Roy 486
· Little Mac (Punch Out) 452
· Palutena 402

Mid Tier
· Bowser Junior 379
· Krystal 368
· Isaac (Golden Sun)365
· Paper Mario 357
· Chrom 331
· Waluigi 330
· Shulk (Xenoblade) 330
· Banjo & Kazooie 307

Low Tier
· Dixie Kong 299
· Majora (Skull Kid) 289
· Ghirahim 269
· Samurai Goroh 269
· Black Shadow 258
· Bomberman 257
· Lyn 249
· Pac-Man 246
· 2nd Sonic Character (Tails, Shadow, Knuckles) 243
· 6th Gen Pokemon 237
· Lucina 226
· Mii (Wii Series) 224
· Bayonetta 223
· Rayman 216
· Toad 215
· Super Mario RPG (Geno, Mallow) 211
· Dark Samus 206
· Doctor Mario 201
[/collaapse]

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

You'd have to be pretty special then. Pac-Man isn't
[collapse=Pac-Man is at the bottom]

God Tier
· Mewtwo 688
· Megaman 605


Top Tier
· Ridley 538
· King K. Rool 527

High Tier

· Roy 486
· Little Mac (Punch Out) 452
· Palutena 402

Mid Tier
· Bowser Junior 379
· Krystal 368
· Isaac (Golden Sun)365
· Paper Mario 357
· Chrom 331
· Waluigi 330
· Shulk (Xenoblade) 330
· Banjo & Kazooie 307

Low Tier
· Dixie Kong 299
· Majora (Skull Kid) 289
· Ghirahim 269
· Samurai Goroh 269
· Black Shadow 258
· Bomberman 257
· Lyn 249
· Pac-Man 246
· 2nd Sonic Character (Tails, Shadow, Knuckles) 243
· 6th Gen Pokemon 237
· Lucina 226
· Mii (Wii Series) 224
· Bayonetta 223
· Rayman 216
· Toad 215
· Super Mario RPG (Geno, Mallow) 211
· Dark Samus 206
· Doctor Mario 201
[/collapse]

Ugh... such much data saying different things. I saw something similiar then this that said that Mewtwo and Roy were at the top, and Dixie Kong and King. K. Rool were both relatively high up there. I think that was among the Japanese, but still, I just don't know what to believe in terms of character popularity. I feel like there are so many different numbers out there. Not that popularity has a direct correlation with likelihood of inclusion, but if we can't even agree on that, what can we agree on?

 

[Chiroz]

You'd have to be pretty special then. Pac-Man isn't
[collapse=Pac-Man is at the bottom]

God Tier
· Mewtwo 688
· Megaman 605


Top Tier
· Ridley 538
· King K. Rool 527

High Tier

· Roy 486
· Little Mac (Punch Out) 452
· Palutena 402

Mid Tier
· Bowser Junior 379
· Krystal 368
· Isaac (Golden Sun)365
· Paper Mario 357
· Chrom 331
· Waluigi 330
· Shulk (Xenoblade) 330
· Banjo & Kazooie 307

Low Tier
· Dixie Kong 299
· Majora (Skull Kid) 289
· Ghirahim 269
· Samurai Goroh 269
· Black Shadow 258
· Bomberman 257
· Lyn 249
· Pac-Man 246
· 2nd Sonic Character (Tails, Shadow, Knuckles) 243
· 6th Gen Pokemon 237
· Lucina 226
· Mii (Wii Series) 224
· Bayonetta 223
· Rayman 216
· Toad 215
· Super Mario RPG (Geno, Mallow) 211
· Dark Samus 206
· Doctor Mario 201
[/collapse]

Good to know Sakurai bases his character inclusions completely on Smash Boards popularity. It's not like character history, fame or relationships with Nintendo have ever mattered or that Pac-Man is basically one of the easiest characters to negotiate as not only has he already appeared in Mario crossovers but it is the mascot of the company that is helping develop the game.

Yep, good thing he added all of those characters on the very top of the list. Wii Fit Trainer and Villager were so popular and high on that tier list most people would have gone on a riot if they weren't included!

 

[kisamefishfries]

I REALLY don't want pacman in the game... Hes just... irrelevant. He would be IMO a stupid character. Wii fit trainer looks awesome, but pac man needs to die. Little mac is cool, I'm open to mii. Just Pacman is crossing the line. I really hope that leak is fake, but who the heck would have predicted wii fit trainer?

 

[SmashChu]

Good to know Sakurai bases his character inclusions completely on Smash Boards popularity. It's not like character history, fame or relationships with Nintendo have ever mattered or that Pac-Man is basically one of the easiest characters to negotiate as not only has he already appeared in Mario crossovers but it is the mascot of the company that is helping develop the game.

Yep, good thing he added all of those characters on the very top of the list. Wii Fit Trainer and Villager were so popular and high on that tier list most people would have gone on a riot if they weren't included!

Let me put it this way. The reason Sonic and Megaman were added was because they were, by far, the most popular characters. Basically, people would be very upset if they weren't in there.

Now look at Pac-Man. In that poll, he is less popular than Roy, Mewtwo, Little Mac, King K Rool, Chrom, Ridley, Waluigi, Bowser Jr, Paper Mario, Palutena and Issac. Heck, even Banjo and Kazzoie are more popular than him and they can even be in the game. Sakurai couldn't add Pac-Man because he would be adding a third party character over Nintendo characters that people want more. It would be an outside character who takes up space. People clearly wanted Megaman which is why we have him. Pac-Man wont be added because no one wants him.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

You can't say Pac-Man would be bad, you did see what they did for Mega Man, it was over my imaginations that they could do something like that for Mega Man... And then they could do the same for Pac-Man, but I would never think of seeing Moku-Pac hahaha

 

[Vintage Creep]

Why is it considered a leak to reveal the entire roster after the game is released? It's a spoiler maybe, but a leak happens before, doesn't it.

 

[Chiroz]

Why is it considered a leak to reveal the entire roster after the game is released? It's a spoiler maybe, but a leak happens before, doesn't it.

The leaks were before the release (about 3-4 weeks before). The Dojo Updates on the very last characters were after release. But Dojo updates were never leaks they were always just spoilers .

Let me put it this way. The reason Sonic and Megaman were added was because they were, by far, the most popular characters. Basically, people would be very upset if they weren't in there.

Now look at Pac-Man. In that poll, he is less popular than Roy, Mewtwo, Little Mac, King K Rool, Chrom, Ridley, Waluigi, Bowser Jr, Paper Mario, Palutena and Issac. Heck, even Banjo and Kazzoie are more popular than him and they can even be in the game. Sakurai couldn't add Pac-Man because he would be adding a third party character over Nintendo characters that people want more. It would be an outside character who takes up space. People clearly wanted Megaman which is why we have him. Pac-Man wont be added because no one wants him.

Let me put it this way.

You shouldn't say that something won't or will happen. You do not know if it will or will not happen. For all you know Namco actually negotiated a price drop on their services to get Pac-Man into the game in order to promote him even further. (Namco has been working hard this year to promote Pac-Man through very different medias, and making a new tv series, new game and they even had an entire (albeit small) booth dedicated only to Pac-Man at E3).

You don't know with certainty how Sakurai thinks, neither what has been going on or has been planned for Smash 4. And please don't give proof for something that you aren't sure its true. You can say you "believe" or "think" something because of this "analysis" based on this "speculation", but don't go ahead and say "he isn't in and here's the proof why he isn't", you will be very sorry if you are proven wrong.

 

[Vintage Creep]

The leaks were before the release (about 3-4 weeks before). The Dojo Updates on the very last characters were after release. But Dojo updates were never leaks they were always just spoilers .

Oh I get it. The Dojos have never been hacked right? Or if they had, they found nothing on it. Most of the times with official sites or betas (remember PSABR?) all stuff gets leaked in a second by hackers, but never with Smash Bros., I guess they're being more cautious with it. They should try to hack in the official site anyway, I guess they could find something

 

[Chiroz]

Oh I get it. The Dojos have never been hacked right? Or if they had, they found nothing on it. Most of the times with official sites or betas (remember PSABR?) all stuff gets leaked in a second by hackers, but never with Smash Bros., I guess they're being more cautious with it. They should try to hack in the official site anyway, I guess they could find something

Well I don't remember if it was hacked, but if it was nothing was found as I remember checking Smashboards every day and don't remember any important hack information. Basically we got 1 update every week day and most of them were just random crap saying the game could be played at 480i and that when being thrown out of the stage you must recover using your up special move, but every once in a while we got a new item, music, stage or character and everything was fine.

By the Japanese release date we already had about 85-90% of the cast already revealed and the leaked rosters started swooping in, but no one wanted to believe them. After a few weeks when the Japanese players uploaded videos (and the Dojo updated on the last characters) people had to accept the fact the leaks were true.

 

[Neanderthal]

The Pac-Man rumor has been debunked a while. Sakurai himself said Mega-Man is a special case.

It's also been confirmed for a while depending on who you ask.

Just because these leaks weren't announced when he said they would be, it doesn't mean he wasn't legitimately told they were in the game.
Minor details can be misinterpreted or announcement plans can change without a leak being fraudulent.
He clearly knew too much not to be in the know.

 

[Neanderthal]

Let me put it this way. The reason Sonic and Megaman were added was because they were, by far, the most popular characters. Basically, people would be very upset if they weren't in there.

Now look at Pac-Man. In that poll, he is less popular than Roy, Mewtwo, Little Mac, King K Rool, Chrom, Ridley, Waluigi, Bowser Jr, Paper Mario, Palutena and Issac. Heck, even Banjo and Kazzoie are more popular than him and they can even be in the game. Sakurai couldn't add Pac-Man because he would be adding a third party character over Nintendo characters that people want more. It would be an outside character who takes up space. People clearly wanted Megaman which is why we have him. Pac-Man wont be added because no one wants him.

Let me put it this way. The reason Snake and Pac Man will probably be added is because they are, by far, the most connected characters. Basically, developers would be very upset if they weren't in there.

Popularity didn't matter for Snake as he got in through a connection. Pac has much much stronger connections than Snake and will probably be in because of that.
Even if Snake was never in Brawl, I would still be pretty convinced that Pac has a great chance.

 

[Morbi]

Yes. I am coming from the Injustice/MK side of things. I am a big NRS guy. Anyways the entire roster of Injustice was leaked about a month before the game came out. No one wanted to believe the leaks. The same thing happened with the DLC. The official DLC list was leaked about 2 weeks after the game came out. No one wanted to believe it. These were official leaks by the way. The official Brazilian website and the official Spanish dub director leaked the lists. No one believed them. It is funny how that works. That would be like the DOJO leaking something and no one believes it. Anyways when dealing with leaks the most important thing to do is to use common sense. I cant wait until I have to start siphoning through SSB4 leaks.

 

[SmashChu]

It's also been confirmed for a while depending on who you ask.

Just because these leaks weren't announced when he said they would be, it doesn't mean he wasn't legitimately told they were in the game.
Minor details can be misinterpreted or announcement plans can change without a leak being fraudulent.
He clearly knew too much not to be in the know.

Know, it pretty much ios false. Here are the issues

1. He never had a source until after the game was shown which is suspicious to say the least. All the other leakers up their ass on the line.
2. The leakers had actual information on what characters could do and other things in the game. This guy has a few characters and nothing more (not even info on what they can do). This makes it seems like a guess.
3. The rumor specifically said the characters were to be shown at E3. You want to believe it's just semantics, but it's a pretty big deal. At the very least, it brings everything into question.
4. Sakurai has come out and said Mega Man is a special case and not to expect more third party characters. He has even said Namco characters don't get any special treatment. This makes Pac-Man unlikely.
5. He got Villager's name wrong. I would figure if he had insider information, he'd at least get the names right.

He also posted anothere rumor about the reveals for E3 which no of it was right. He said he found it on a small site, but if you search the site, no rumor comes up. His link just takes you to the main page. It doesn't give an error message wither (in case it was later deleted). If you google quotes from the rumor, you just get the original GAF post. I tried asking the owner of the blog about it on his Youtube channel, but he never responded. Still, I think this guy is straight up lying though can't say much without proof.

Let me put it this way. The reason Snake and Pac Man will probably be added is because they are, by far, the most connected characters. Basically, developers would be very upset if they weren't in there.

Popularity didn't matter for Snake as he got in through a connection. Pac has much much stronger connections than Snake and will probably be in because of that.
Even if Snake was never in Brawl, I would still be pretty convinced that Pac has a great chance.

First, developers don't matter. We do.

Second, you don't get it. Snake was the first third party character and was meant to be the only one. Sonic and Megaman were added because they were the most wanted characters. The first thing you don't get is this is a Nintendo Alll-Star game which Sakurai himself has said. He has also said that not to expect other third party characters and Namco characters don't get special treatment. He is pretty much saying Pac-Man wont happen.

The reason the popularity matters is adding Pac-Man will ruin the integrity of the game. Mega Man is a very popular character character, but most fans do not care about Pac-Man (most gamer don't. Pac-Man hasn't been relevant for 20 years). It becomes an issue when add one of the least requested characters from an outside company just to add him. There are more relevant Nintendo characters that people like more. There is no reason for Pac-Man. You can't cram any old third party character into this game or it removes the Nintendo feel which defines the game. It works in cases like Mega Man where fans want him. It wont work in a case where no one really likes said character. Lastly, Pac-Man has just as much history with a pizza parlor in the 80s than he does with Nintendo.

 

[bobadz]

1. Sakurai has come out and said Mega Man is a special case and not to expect more third party characters. He has even said Namco characters don't get any special treatment. This makes Pac-Man unlikely.

First, developers don't matter. We do.

Second, you don't get it. Snake was the first third party character and was meant to be the only one. Sonic and Megaman were added because they were the most wanted characters. The first thing you don't get is this is a Nintendo Alll-Star game which Sakurai himself has said. He has also said that not to expect other third party characters and Namco characters don't get special treatment. He is pretty much saying Pac-Man wont happen.

Sakurai never said Megaman is the only third party. He said don't expect a lot of them.

 

[Morbi]

Know, it pretty much ios false. Here are the issues

1. He never had a source until after the game was shown which is suspicious to say the least. All the other leakers up their *** on the line.
2. The leakers had actual information on what characters could do and other things in the game. This guy has a few characters and nothing more (not even info on what they can do). This makes it seems like a guess.
3. The rumor specifically said the characters were to be shown at E3. You want to believe it's just semantics, but it's a pretty big deal. At the very least, it brings everything into question.
4. Sakurai has come out and said Mega Man is a special case and not to expect more third party characters. He has even said Namco characters don't get any special treatment. This makes Pac-Man unlikely.
5. He got Villager's name wrong. I would figure if he had insider information, he'd at least get the names right.

He also posted anothere rumor about the reveals for E3 which no of it was right. He said he found it on a small site, but if you search the site, no rumor comes up. His link just takes you to the main page. It doesn't give an error message wither (in case it was later deleted). If you google quotes from the rumor, you just get the original GAF post. I tried asking the owner of the blog about it on his Youtube channel, but he never responded. Still, I think this guy is straight up lying though can't say much without proof.





First, developers don't matter. We do.

Second, you don't get it. Snake was the first third party character and was meant to be the only one. Sonic and Megaman were added because they were the most wanted characters. The first thing you don't get is this is a Nintendo Alll-Star game which Sakurai himself has said. He has also said that not to expect other third party characters and Namco characters don't get special treatment. He is pretty much saying Pac-Man wont happen.

The reason the popularity matters is adding Pac-Man will ruin the integrity of the game. Mega Man is a very popular character character, but most fans do not care about Pac-Man (most gamer don't. Pac-Man hasn't been relevant for 20 years). It becomes an issue when add one of the least requested characters from an outside company just to add him. There are more relevant Nintendo characters that people like more. There is no reason for Pac-Man. You can't cram any old third party character into this game or it removes the Nintendo feel which defines the game. It works in cases like Mega Man where fans want him. It wont work in a case where no one really likes said character. Lastly, Pac-Man has just as much history with a pizza parlor in the 80s than he does with Nintendo.

Developers do matter. In fact coming from a NRS game. They developed Mortal Kombat (my favorite franchise ever). They also developed Injustice under Warner Bros who owned DC. No one... I repeat no one wanted Scorpion in the game. I was literally active on the official forums every day. Once Scorpion was leaked a second time most everybody was flipping out. NRS was even surprised that no one wanted him. The official facebook and twitter pages were littered with angry mail. I am just saying that you shouldn't count out Pacman yet. Regardless of anyone's desire to have him in the game.

I get what you are saying though. There was a leaker on Injustice. He got a lot of stuff right but he was also wrong on a few significant things. Including a new season pass reveal at E3 (which was inaccurate). However, I still think he is credible. If he was guessing he was guessing very good. He guessed two character traits. Both were really out of the box and had nothing to do with the characters. I mean sometimes plans change last minute. E3 plans included.

Relevance... relevance... do you really mean to tell me that Ice Climbers, R.O.B, or Game and Watch are more relevant than Pacman? Pacman is literally a gaming icon. He was actually a character in Street Fighter X Tekken. So he has been relevant in fighting games. I think in a more party based fighting game he would fit right at home.

 

[bobadz]

Speaking of injustice, CAW evolution believes its real. I think he leaked the roster for injustice and umvc3.

 

[SmashChu]

Developers do matter. In fact coming from a NRS game. They developed Mortal Kombat (my favorite franchise ever). They also developed Injustice under Warner Bros who owned DC. No one... I repeat no one wanted Scorpion in the game. I was literally active on the official forums every day. Once Scorpion was leaked a second time most everybody was flipping out. NRS was even surprised that no one wanted him. The official facebook and twitter pages were littered with angry mail. I am just saying that you shouldn't count out Pacman yet. Regardless of anyone's desire to have him in the game.

The reason the third party characters are added is because people want them enough. This is why Megaman is in the game. The reason Pac-Man wont be is because no one really wants him and want Nintendo characters over him. Sakurai's rule is the character has to make people want to play the game. Wii Fit Trainer is one such character. Pac-Man isn't. Fans don't want him and his inclusion would be forced. Remember this is a Nintendo All-Star game. When you add unexpected Nintendo characters, it's interesting. When you add unexpected third party characters, it can just muddy the water.

I get what you are saying though. There was a leaker on Injustice. He got a lot of stuff right but he was also wrong on a few significant things. Including a new season pass reveal at E3 (which was inaccurate). However, I still think he is credible. If he was guessing he was guessing very good. He guessed two character traits. Both were really out of the box and had nothing to do with the characters. I mean sometimes plans change last minute. E3 plans included.

It's back peddling is what it is. He never had a source until after E3. When his rumor was false, he said "They must have changed the schedule" I'm sure the Injustice leaker said he had a source. This guy never said it until after his guesses were right. There is also this what he said never happen. He tries to defend himself by saying it came from another site, but what he posted wasn't on that site.

Relevance... relevance... do you really mean to tell me that Ice Climbers, R.O.B, or Game and Watch are more relevant than Pacman? Pacman is literally a gaming icon. He was actually a character in Street Fighter X Tekken. So he has been relevant in fighting games. I think in a more party based fighting game he would fit right at home.

Their Nintendo characters and Pac-Man isn't. That is what it boils down to. Since this is a Nintendo All-Star game, you can do it. Do it with third party characters and it feels forced.

 

[Morbi]

The reason the third party characters are added is because people want them enough. This is why Megaman is in the game. The reason Pac-Man wont be is because no one really wants him and want Nintendo characters over him. Sakurai's rule is the character has to make people want to play the game. Wii Fit Trainer is one such character. Pac-Man isn't. Fans don't want him and his inclusion would be forced. Remember this is a Nintendo All-Star game. When you add unexpected Nintendo characters, it's interesting. When you add unexpected third party characters, it can just muddy the water.



It's back peddling is what it is. He never had a source until after E3. When his rumor was false, he said "They must have changed the schedule" I'm sure the Injustice leaker said he had a source. This guy never said it until after his guesses were right. There is also this what he said never happen. He tries to defend himself by saying it came from another site, but what he posted wasn't on that site.



Their Nintendo characters and Pac-Man isn't. That is what it boils down to. Since this is a Nintendo All-Star game, you can do it. Do it with third party characters and it feels forced.

Thank you. I wasn't necessarily aware of the Brawl leaks. I vaguely recall them though. I don't want Pacman either. I am just saying that his chances are pretty high. In the end if Namco really wants to push him I am sure he will be in the game. I completely agree with you though. I do not like third party characters, I do not want any. Pacman/Megaman/Sonic are OK in my book mostly because they are iconic.

 

[Dark Phazon]

i actually thought this time it wouldnt be as long...i think its gonna be the longest wait....

 

[SmashChu]

Thank you. I wasn't necessarily aware of the Brawl leaks. I vaguely recall them though. I don't want Pacman either. I am just saying that his chances are pretty high. In the end if Namco really wants to push him I am sure he will be in the game. I completely agree with you though. I do not like third party characters, I do not want any. Pacman/Megaman/Sonic are OK in my book mostly because they are iconic.

I didn't say much on Brawl leaks, but they did have far more information than "These characters are going to be shown off." The one in the OP confirmed Olimar and that his recovery was a whip attack. It gets stechy when they give so little information, which is why I think that Pac-Man rumor was a lucky guess that a guy decided to turn into a rumor.

On Pac-Man, Sakurai has said Namco doesn't get special treatment. The reason anyone though Pac-Man was likely was this. With that gone, his changes are shot. Here is the thing. Fans understand this is a Nintendo fighting game. This is why we love seeing things like ROB and WFT because they are usual things about Nintendo. So they feel fun. Pac-Man doesn't have that and is just a character from another company. A problem Playstation All Stars ran into is that they just added third party characters willy nilly. So it didn't feel like a celebration of Sony's history. Pac-Man would not feel like a celebration and instead feel like "Oh, Namco made it, so here he is." Some fans would be bored. Others would be angry.

 

[Banjodorf]

Smashchu, especially by assuming Sakurai saying "Mega Man is a special case" means he's the only third party (or new one depending on how you look at it) just makes you look bad.

It makes you look like you're pulling theories out of nowhere and pushing them as fact, just like some others do around here. It honestly sounds like you work for one of those ****ty "gaming journalism" sites like Gamenesia. Ugh.

No intelligent person assumes things without substantial evidence. Just stop stirring pots already.

 

[Morbi]

I didn't say much on Brawl leaks, but they did have far more information than "These characters are going to be shown off." The one in the OP confirmed Olimar and that his recovery was a whip attack. It gets stechy when they give so little information, which is why I think that Pac-Man rumor was a lucky guess that a guy decided to turn into a rumor.

On Pac-Man, Sakurai has said Namco doesn't get special treatment. The reason anyone though Pac-Man was likely was this. With that gone, his changes are shot. Here is the thing. Fans understand this is a Nintendo fighting game. This is why we love seeing things like ROB and WFT because they are usual things about Nintendo. So they feel fun. Pac-Man doesn't have that and is just a character from another company. A problem Playstation All Stars ran into is that they just added third party characters willy nilly. So it didn't feel like a celebration of Sony's history. Pac-Man would not feel like a celebration and instead feel like "Oh, Namco made it, so here he is." Some fans would be bored. Others would be angry.

I guess if he specifically said that Namco wont be getting any special treatment his chances are shot. I know what you mean about PSASBR. However, I was content with Sweet Tooth. I was a huge Twisted Metal fan. Anyways... R.O.B... fun? I despise that little robot more than you could ever know. If I had the choice to cut one character it would be him. I know where you are coming from though. I am sure Sakurai will take it easy on the third party characters. I just think out of all of the possible third party characters Pacman would not only not be a bad choice. He would also be pretty easy to add seeing as it is being co-developed. He also looks easy enough to animate. I mean he is just a ball.

 

[Banjodorf]

There's perfectly logical reasons to include Pac-Man and that should be obvious. I hate him. Alot. But it doesn't change the fact that he's fairly likely, no matter how easy it is to twist the words of developers to suit one's needs.

I may as well go ahead and assume Sakurai's mentioning of a customizable character that can switch between games" confirms Mii's. Which it very well MAY do.

Don't EVER count out possibilities. That's why we have WFT.

Aside from that; IF we take his mention as confirmation of Mii's (Work with me here) and take the Punch-Out!! Stage as confirmation of Mac, then the leaker is this far 5/6. There's no way he's just that good of a guesser.

It's possible, but just no.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I think Sakurai wanted to give us something we didn't want because, we did not think of the possibilites (Wii Fit Trainer).. and I'm sure he also will give us some of the most requested ones further down the road as to what we want..

 

[Banjodorf]

Of course he will! Come on you guys, Sakurai knows what he's doing! We got ****ing Mega Man in the trailer, when Capcom didn't even have **** to do with the game before.

Unless he throws us a curve ball, in addition to Mac, well be bathing in our Mewtwo's and K. Rools and Ridleys and Palutenas (Ohhh myyy) before too long.

 

[Morbi]

Of course he will! Come on you guys, Sakurai knows what he's doing! We got ****ing Mega Man in the trailer, when Capcom didn't even have **** to do with the game before.

Unless he throws us a curve ball, in addition to Mac, well be bathing in our Mewtwo's and K. Rools and Ridleys and Palutenas (Ohhh myyy) before too long.

Exactly. I think he wanted to get the curve balls out of the way. We should see some more fan requests later on. He is obviously saving those to surprise us. I have a feeling that people would be pissed about Wii Fit Trainer if she was towards the end. They might associate her as a slot stealer or something. I am worried about Mewtwo's return though. Not the movie lol. His return to Smash. I really don't like his Majin Buu... erm... awakened form. Hopefully it is just a final smash or something.

 

[Banjodorf]

Given that Sakurai put in Overalls Wario for multiple reasons, even if Majin Mew is his new look, he'd likely to include the original to appease the fans. It's how Sakurai rolls, yo!

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Thats what I mean you guys. We get the unexpected first, plus Megaman, then he give us some awesome stuff further in devolopment, to keep fans looking forward to it... but hey, we at Smashboards is like that everyday lol

 

[blerb]

I was one of those guys who kept with Brawl 100%. I can safely say that is the 1 reason why Brawl was so disappointing to me (at the time.) I've learned to embrace cut/added characters, no matter who they are.

I'm also gonna avoid reading up on locked characters. It'll be so much more hype-inducing if I find out about a character right before I actually get to play as them.

 

[Chiroz]

Smashchu I won't even quote one of your posts because their all so horribly informed its incredible. You assume things to be just how you think they are. Apparently you are connected to Sakurai through telepathy and can tell every single reason why a character was added.

What I love about it is that most of the points you bring up are actually proven to be completely wrong, but knowing people like you, when confronted you will just make up another reason why there's a loophole in your theories, and the thing is we can't actually have a discussion with you because you use theories as facts :S.

Just to give you an example, you said: "Developers don't matter, 3rd parties only got in because of us" yet Snake is in Brawl. Snake was added solely due to the developer's request. Kojima asked and almost literally begged Sakurai to put Snake into Melee. No one asked for Snake for Brawl and quite honestly the idea of Snake in Smash is an incredibly weird one for MGS fans who know about Smash, but Sakurai did put him in and more astonishingly made him work and fit perfectly.

Sakurai said: "Don't expect any more third parties". He did not say that, he said that he wasn't planning on just adding any 3rd party character and that in this case Megaman was a special case. This means that 3rd parties must meet a certain criteria for Sakurai, he just won't add anyone. Never did he say Megaman was the only addition. Never did he say the only criteria he uses for 3rd parties is popularity, the fact that some characters got in because of popularity does not mean all characters are judged the exact same way.

"Pac-Man hasn't mattered for any gamer in the past 20 years"

Pac-Man is an iconic figure, there are thousands if not millions of players who remember Pac-Man arcade machines with fondness. Pac-Man himself has fans as he obviously appears in the polls and has a decent amount of votes. The fact that most Smash players (such as myself) don't like the idea of Pac-Man or believe Pac-Man to be less deserving than other Nintendo characters does not in any way take away the fame Pac-Man has. Mention Pac-Man to anyone 25-50 and they will probably have played it.



In the end Pac-Man may or may not be in the game, Megaman might or might not be the only 3rd party character, but making arguments using theories as facts is not only a bad practice but it makes you look ignorant and it's exactly why this thread was created. This thread was created exactly so that people don't debunk or glorify theories just because of subjectivity and bias, this thread meant to teach people how to be humble and actually use their judgement by showing people the wrong ways we have acted in the past, yet you act the exact same way people did back then.

Read on some of the threads that were made back then, people saying it was impossible for R.O.B. to be in, how they justified their threads with theories and used them as facts. "How would all those other Nintendo characters be excluded for an object that was never part of any game!" Or people saying it was impossible for Megaman or any other third party to be left out, "Sakurai said it was 2 or 3 more third parties after Snake, Sonic is just one third party so there is another third party and everyone who says otherwise is a liar!!!"

Try not to use theories as facts. If you have your opinions fine. If you want to express them, go ahead, that's what this forum is for. But don't say someone is wrong because of something you are assuming and was never actually proven to be true. All we can do right now is assume and speculate anyways.

 

[Chiroz]

It makes you look like you're pulling theories out of nowhere and pushing them as fact, just like some others do around here. It honestly sounds like you work for one of those ****ty "gaming journalism" sites like Gamenesia. Ugh.

No intelligent person assumes things without substantial evidence. Just stop stirring pots already.

I hadn't read this post, this guy summarizes my previous post perfectly.

Don't make up your own theories and then provide them to other people and claim they are fact, makes you look ignorant.

 

[Curmudgeon]

I'm impressed that people actually thought Ness would be cut back then and now he is practically in without a question.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Well Ness in that matter was among the first 12 Originals... BUT Sakurai Intended to cut Ness from Melee in favor of Lucas, but it was too far in devolopment to change it (Heard it on "Did You Know Gaming" which only is based on facts)

So maybe that's why people question themselves regarding Ness?, IMO I hope he stays, he was my Melee Main after all