A Yoshi vs A Fox

[Mr.Showtime]

In a match between these two characters, what is recommended that you do as Yoshi. I always seem to lose to Fox for some reason yea it's an easy target when hit outside the arena. What are some tricks you can use to help kill this faget character?

 

[Shiri]

This is going to sound like a cop out answer and that I'm just avoiding the question.

But it's this simple. Don't get hit by the drill.

 

[rmusgrave]

If he SHFFL's a lot, then just wavedash back lots.

If he does full jumps lots, up-air or up-smash him lots.

And don't get hit by the drill.

 

[Iggy K]

Don't let the shine hit you.

 

[Crazyfingers]

do some smart dash dancing and everyonce in a while do a the wavedash back to f-smash mindgame for a kill. and if you know how to combo from a sex kick or a b-air, go for it, but you have to mindgame into it using the (r)djc

 

[Mr.Showtime]

Yea, that jump Up + A kills me all the time I try air dodging never helps, I always have trouble trying to untumble Yoshi.

 

[Bloshi]

If you're talking about the uthrow uair combo then just nair past it...works almost every time.

 

[Shiri]

DI is very important in this matchup.

DI Fox's up throw behind him.
DI Fox's up smash in front of him.
DI Fox's up air by smashing to either side during the first hit. This works with a pretty surprising success rate.

Those are all his power moves really. The stupid thing about Fox v. Yoshi (or Fox v. a lot of characters) is that he can just toss mvoes together and string them into a combo. Be sure to be wary of low knockback moves like forward tilt, dash attack, and down tilt. They're too good for his combo setups and oftentimes will lead straight into a K.O. move.

 

[Mr.Showtime]

Thanks a lot everyone, I'am going into tournaemnt tomorrow and go show people what Yoshi is made of. =)

 

[Hazygoose]

yoshi's down air can spike the crap out of him.
you can get a kill from downtilting him off, then dairing him and jumping back up. it's almost as cheap as the shine.

 

[Shiri]

Well, we all talked about how to beat Fox's approach on Yoshi.

But how can Yoshi approach Fox? Laser camping is too good and powershielding them is a bit much for me. I would also imagine Yosh is very susceptible to hit-and-run tactics like neutral air-shine-run away or grab camping. What do you guys think?

 

[Bullfrog]

My friend always approaches with a dash attack->utilt->uair. Most of the time I just wavedash back and hit with FLOGGIN' NOGGIN'! But I've never really played a different fox (I never get a chance to at tourneys for some reason >_<), so sorry.

 

[Saur]

Quick question.. at what percentage would it be a good time to nair out of the uthrow -> uair combo as opposed to DIing out of it?

I ask because personally, I haven't developed the instinct to DI out of foxes uair. At my last tourney I actually naired out of about half the uairs, but could only DI the usmashes and uthrows.

 

[Shiri]

It's good to neutral out at about 20% and under. Maybe even up to 30%.

I've spent a good deal of time mastering the DI out of Fox's up aerial and I have to say that it's not only the most satisfying, but also the some of the easiest Smash DI the game has to offer for such a deadly attack. I highly recommend getting that down when you have the time. However, if you can DI out of up throws on command, I suppose you've got a one up on me, since I can't react that quickly to it yet.

But yeah, I only neutral air out at early percents. I Smash DI out of the kicks at anything higher. Oh gosh, I <3 Yoshi so much, but why are his matchups so gay? -_-

 

[Deleted member]

I would also imagine Yosh is very susceptible to hit-and-run tactics like neutral air-shine-run away or grab camping. What do you guys think?

I think I like to combo him instead ^_^

 

[Shiri]

You make me so sad on the inside. :_:

 

[rmusgrave]

How can Yoshi approach Fox?

Let's see...

Dash grab is a good one.

Also, dash grab.

I like dash grab too.


Generally, against fast fallers I abuse my ground game as an approach and my air game becomes solely comboing and evasive maneuvres. After landing a few dash grabs and tech chase grabs, your opponent should adapt a little, so be aware that he might attempt to interrupt your grab or dash dance around it or jump over it. Keep him guessing with dash dancing and your approach game should be good. The question then becomes making sure that he doesn't approach when you are, as that messes you up unless you can react in time.

 

[Shiri]

Yeah.

Fox's effing hop kick is too goo din this matchup. I guess moving in with tilts and jabs is the best idea (outside of grabs), yes? I used to like back aerial, but I've been shined out of it before and it just feels really uncomfortable to use now.

 

[Saur]

Hmm... what levels do you guys think are best to take fox? I prefer places without walls X_x

I'm thinking Yoshi's story might be good, since I seem to get a decent amount of fsmash kills in such a small level. But maybe I'm just lucky. Any thoughts?

 

[yoshiiscool]

my personal favorite stages to fight fox are FD and DL64. FD is where I feel the most comfortable fighting, and it's also very good for comboing FFers as Yoshi. DL has that high cieling and side, while it doesn't help too much, it's nice to know Fox will have a harder time KOing you.

Not a fan of YS because the cielings and sides are very small. Honestly with Yoshi's amazing edgeguarding skill Fox shouldn't be making it back to the stage, so the need for small sides are just hindering Yoshi's great recovery. Also I don't enjoy the platforms for comboing, although they do allow for some great tech chase f-air setups. <shrug>

 

[Shiri]

I also second Kirby's Dreamland 64.

I like Yoshi's Story too, but that's just personal preference.

 

[Jossy]

i like to beat Fox in his homelevel... why? i can easily knock him out of the stage and fox has a hard time comming back .

 

[Bullfrog]

I like Dreamland 64 because of the high ceiling, too, but of course the only kills the fox player I know gets on me are vertical. One time we had a match where he couldn't use upsmash and I lived until like 300% >_>

 

[rmusgrave]

Stage is pretty unimportant in this matchup if the Fox player can tech d-tilts and d-smashes when he tries to sweetspot.

The hop kick (pretty cool name actually) can be beaten by being defensive. Sometimes I even find myself resorting to DJCing through it at low % just to put the fox off balance. However, generally if you can space yourself past his short hop n-air distance or over the top of its max height, you'll beat his approach.

Fox definitely has the upper hand, but don't let him know that

 

[YOSHIDO]

sigh this matchup got alot harder for me. When i face high tournament lv fox's. The shine combo. It hurts. Although ive only played his fox like 3 times. Its been ugly all 3 times. Im gonna try neutral kicks and back airs. Its just from what i rember. Hes always in my face. Any suggestions.

 

[Shiri]

Okay, so check this out. I've been getting a lot more comfortable with this matchup lately.

I'll admit it; at first, I was highly skeptical of Bringer's dash grab advice. However, I've found that Fox and Falco are complete suckers for Yoshi's dash grab, and it's a great way to break their defense and start a launcher combo. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Shine combo does hurt. If you can learn to Smash DI it away, you can put your shield up while you're sliding before Fox can upsmash you. I don't recommend CCing the shine unless you're against a wall--you can actually grab Fox out of a waveshine against a wall if you CC it. Eff that JC shine, though. >_> If you DI it behind Fox, there is a very slim chance (this works better if it's led into by the drill) that the shine will actually push you behind Fox thanks to ASDI. I, personally, like DIing away, cuz I can shieldgrab or lightshield the upsmash. DIing back...I'd have to be too ready for it and the upsmash reaches back there, anyway. You could probably pseudo-dodge with a forward smash of your own, but I haven't tried it.

Use neutral kicks (in the air) to combo or trade hits on approach. Use neutral kicks (on the ground) out of wavedashes to approach and interrupt low-flying aerial approaches. Use back aerial to combo...try not to lead in with it too much. If Fox isn't in shield, his upsmash can severely outrange your tail here. If he is in shield, he can just upsmash out of that for a GGNORE.

Try to be a bit more offensive, probably. See which leadins work best for you and try to bait shielding and spot dodges from the opponent...it's a free combo once you can get Fox to make himself vulnerable like that.

 

[YOSHIDO]

thanks for the advice. I'll record friday. Hopefully yoshi will rise to the challenge. Even if its reall close i'll be happy. Then i'll just use my secondary jiggs, an twirk that hoe.

 

[park5150]

When I play fox, I think of the song ''What is love.'' Everytime. "

 

[Shiri]

LOL do that darn thang, son!

 

[YOSHIDO]

LOL do that darn thang, son!

lol shiri.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Also, take advantage of Yoshi's down tilt and down smash. They can make recovery for Fox difficult even with DI, especially if you hog the edge and press L or R to roll. Make your forward smash, down smash, and Nair attack your main methods of KO. Use these tactics against Falco too.

 

[cavesonic13]

down air.......I win

 

[Shiri]

For edgeguarding, yes. For damage, no. Fox outprioritizes down air something fierce if he's grounded.

 

[cavesonic13]

yah thats what i meant....oh come on...you should know this shiri...you know I am not that stupid....or am I? O.o

 

[Shiri]

My bad, hahaha. Guess I just kinda read into it too hard. x_x

 

[cavesonic13]

its all kool

 

[doom dragon 105]

ders nothin gud 2 do just aviod the shine n dril n combo him 2 no return

 

[Hal-Yur-Azn-Pal]

Just poop him off the stage.

 

[technomancer]

DL64 and Yoshi's are my two favorite stages, but Battlefield is so good against Fox because he can't ride the wall there when he recovers. Learn that platformdash Nair stuff that the Ganon's do, it's so crazy good, esp on the 3-platform stages.

If he's FH3L camping you it should be easy to get around, just run in when he full jumps and then mindgamez, but SHL camping is going to require those eggs. You can also hang out on a platform above him and CC Usmash if he attempts to aerial you.

 

[Shiri]

I agree with everything except that last part.

CC upsmash won't really work well on drill, back air, or up air. Even Fox's forward air coming from underneath a platform will just keep pushing you away. Drill is obvious to not CC, back air (regardless of which direction its aimed in) can be spaced out so upsmash doesn't hit, and up air seems hard to CC at any percentage for some reason. I fought C0MP's Fox a few months ago and, though he's not known for Fox, he knew enough about Fox and Yoshi to lift me off the ground (which I thought I was firmly planted to on several occasions) with low horizontal up airs and if you have your mind set on CCing it, it can be hard to stop, especially when it pops you just high enough to start one of Fox's cool looking combos. Because Fox is cool. Right? Right.

I dunno, I just think that while Fox's neutral is certainly a viable candidate for CC upsmash with Yosh (even then, it takes a bit of timing to get off right), any Fox who just fires that move out there isn't really thinking when there are much better and much more obvious alternatives.

Full hop triple laser is amazingly fun to get around. Once you run in, just look at the Fox player's face and think of any cruel little game you like--it's pretty cool. Most he can do is neutral or drill. Up tilt trades with neutral and kills the drill (even if you space it wrong or time it a little late, you'll trade with the first hit of the drill, so you can CC that one hit into whatever you like). And YEHS @ platform games with neutral air. Make sure you smack 'em with yer butt. Yoshi's neutral has amazing range behind him (I'm mainly guessing his neutral is supposed to be normal, but somehow the range on it got horizontally translated away from his front at some point in the dev. process).

Yoshi's Story is fun against Fox as well. Don't let the small boundaries scare you--it's such a cool stage and the Shy Guys are your best friend, TRUST.