A Very Sensitive Topic

[W¡ndy]

DISCLAMER; THE CHOICES WERE JUST JOKING WAYS TO SAY YES OR NO. AND BY BE PART OF THE CAST I MEANT FIT IN WITH THE REST OF THE CAST (BY HAVING SIGNIFICANT CHANGES MADE TO THEM) THIS MEANS YOU TOO MARTH

I've been thinking about all the changes that the PMBR has been making to the characters and I noticed something.
The spacies changes have really just been reverts to melee and VERY slight buffs/changes.
Example:
"Falco's special attacks to how they were in Melee"
" Most of Falco's attacks that he lost in the transition from Melee to Brawl are back"
"Fox has been made into a replica of his Melee appearance."

So I was thinking. Am I the only one who thinks that they should have some real changes made to them, or am I wrong and should they be kept the same for the "Melee Purists".

If they are kept the same, It's kind of unfair to the players who liked certain aspects of characters from brawl, but those characters were completely redone (some people might have loved how Brawl's lucario played). Also, when you think about it, reverting them back to their melee forms goes against one of the principles of Project:M; Not being a copy of melee.


On a completely personal note, I'm kind of tired of fox and falco always being the "best" (according to tier lists), and how they emphasize "being able to hit 10000000 buttons a minute" if you want to play them (well).
buuuut that's just me.

Discuss. And don't start a flame war.

 

[ShadowGanon]

I personally love both Fox and Falco's move sets. Though, I can see what you mean. Every one else was changed in some way, but they weren't.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

Here's how I look at it, for every character that was made to be exactly like Melee, there are over 8 characters that were made unique.

In perspective, that's about 4 characters for Melee vets to love, and about 38 for the casual crowd.
Honestly don't see how it needs to be changed, if it ain't broke don't fix it is my opinion.

 

[Xermo]

Also, when you think about it, reverting them back to their melee forms goes against one of the principles of Project:M; Not being a copy of melee.

The whole project started from changing brawl falco into melee falco.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

oh look, the first spacie flame war thread of the year! I can't wait for another 3 month discussion about the same subject!

for real though, this whole project started with vbrawl falco changing back to melee falco, it would be a little absurd to bring back or change him radically, same goes for fox simply bc of how prominent of a character he is and the spacies influence in general

i think its safe to say that apart from a couple of other small tweaks and nerfs, they will remain unchanged

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

So I was thinking. Am I the only one who thinks that they should have some real changes made to them, or am I wrong and should they be kept the same for the "Melee Purists".

No, they should be kept the same because making Fox and Falco their Melee selves is what started Brawl + and Brawl + is what started Project

If they are kept the same, It's kind of unfair to the players who liked certain aspects of characters from brawl, but those characters were completely redone (some people might have loved how Brawl's lucario played). Also, when you think about it, reverting them back to their melee forms goes against one of the principles of Project:M; Not being a copy of melee.

Not true, their principle is to not be a 1:1 copy of Melee, if this wasn't meant to be at least a little bit like Melee then it wouldn't be called Project M, we wouldn't have Wavedashing, L-cancelling, directional air dodging, etc.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Just a heads up: this has been discussed before and it didn't end well.

While spacies are fun to play, from what I observed they eclipse many other characters in their sheer amount of options. A lot of people justify this design by citing their bad recoveries, though. So there's that.

 

[Papa+Stone]

Well now when people say "you only won because this is project m" it will be a perfectly legitimate argument. Also you wont be able to compare your buffed pm main to melee top tiers anymore. Also hax will 100% not attend anymore which sucks because Hax symbolises the rebelious spirit of taking a character many beleive is not on par with a few others and kicking ass with it and Hax is my hero and without Hax one of the last shreds of hype will be lost because currently there arent really too many high level players with much familiarity with their character choices. Dont take Hax away please.

 

[Papa+Stone]

No, they should be kept the same because making Fox and Falco their Melee selves is what started Brawl + and Brawl + is what started Project

Not true, their principle is to not be a 1:1 copy of Melee, if this wasn't meant to be at least a little bit like Melee then it wouldn't be called Project M, we wouldn't have Wavedashing, L-cancelling, directional air dodging, etc.

Wow never expected to see you standing up for fox, i thought you were one of those bcuz melee maymay spouters. Well kudos to you man, I forgive you for everything and bless your grandchildren.

 

[W¡ndy]

oh look, the first spacie flame war thread of the year! I can't wait for another 3 month discussion about the same subject!

Oh look, a person who has nothing of any consequence to add to my thread.

Please don't post if you ain't adding to the conversation.

Here's how I look at it, for every character that was made to be exactly like Melee, there are over 8 characters that were made unique.

In perspective, that's about 4 characters for Melee vets to love, and about 38 for the casual crowd.
Honestly don't see how it needs to be changed, if it ain't broke don't fix it is my opinion.

not to attack you or anything but....
that same sentence could have been said about several characters.
but why keep these 4 characters the same, yet change all the other ones,
also,

The way I understand project:M is.....
The best of both Melee and Brawl put together with a little spin on it. (if that lets you understand where I'm coming from here)

But if its supposed to be a combination of them, why aren't there any characters for the brawl vets to love.
you can't forget that there are more than just melee vets out there

 

[RIDLEY is too SMALL]

Uhhh, why are the only choices "screw the purist" and "that's blasphemy, you heretic"?

Showers can only be taken if the water is either freezing cold or scalding hot. I hate any showers that aren't at the far end of the cold spectrum. Let's argue about it!

 

[Papa+Stone]

Oh look, a person who has nothing of any consequence to add to my thread.

Please don't post if you ain't adding to the conversation.

I feel you man, some people are just jerks

 

[Papa+Stone]

Uhhh, why are the only choices "screw the purist" and "that's blasphemy, you heretic"?

Showers can only be taken if the water is either freezing cold or scalding hot. I hate any showers that aren't at the far end of the cold spectrum. Let's argue about it!

Come on man you understood his point right? Stop being such a liberal and help this man out

 

[Sixth-Sense]

Oh look, a person who has nothing of any consequence to add to my thread.

Please don't post if you ain't adding to the conversation.

if i offended you i am oh so very sorry but the truth is this subject itself doesn't add anything at all apart from people getting a little salty about certain things that will simply not change radically, to say fox/falco won't change at all in the coming versions seems a little unfair since i do expect them to get nerfed at least one more time

@ P Papa+Stone dude calm down, i'm just saying the truth, these subjects aren't very constructive and all it manages to do is start arguments

 

[W¡ndy]

if i offended you i am oh so very sorry but the truth is this subject itself doesn't add anything at all apart from people getting a little salty about certain things that will simply not change radically, to say fox/falco won't change at all in the coming versions seems a little unfair since i do expect them to get nerfed at least one more time

@ P Papa+Stone dude calm down, i'm just saying the truth, these subjects aren't very constructive and all it manages to do is start arguments

Arguments are a part of life.
If this gets to heated, then the mods can shut it down ( or tell the people arguing to cool it) at a moments notice.

after all, Project:M wouldn't have been made if nobody argued that some parts of melee were better than some parts of brawl would it?

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Oh look, a person who has nothing of any consequence to add to my thread.

Please don't post if you ain't adding to the conversation.



not to attack you or anything but....
that same sentence could have been said about several characters.
but why keep these 4 characters the same, yet change all the other ones,
also,

The way I understand project:M is.....
The best of both Melee and Brawl put together with a little spin on it. (if that lets you understand where I'm coming from here)

But if its supposed to be a combination of them, why aren't there any characters for the brawl vets to love.
you can't forget that there are more than just melee vets out there

Why did you make the only options "screw the purist" and "blasphemy!" if you didn't want a flame war? You could have just said "do you want Fox and Falco to be significantly changed like the rest of the cast? Yes or No." and have had a much better result.

 

[Papa+Stone]

if i offended you i am oh so very sorry but the truth is this subject itself doesn't add anything at all apart from people getting a little salty about certain things that will simply not change radically, to say fox/falco won't change at all in the coming versions seems a little unfair since i do expect them to get nerfed at least one more time

@ P Papa+Stone dude calm down, i'm just saying the truth, these subjects aren't very constructive and all it manages to do is start arguments

This man didnt know any better and was just asking to share his views on a website where he figured people would listen. If you truly wanted to help you couldve linked him the old discussions. Learn a little compassion my friend.

 

[W¡ndy]

Why did you make the only options "screw the purist" and "blasphemy!" if you didn't want a flame war? You could have just said "do you want Fox and Falco to be significantly changed like the rest of the cast? Yes or No." and have had a much better result.

THere, I added a disclaimer.

"This man didnt know any better and was just asking to share his views on a website where he figured people would listen. If you truly wanted to help you couldve linked him the old discussions. Learn a little compassion my friend. "

A few things
1) Although you are right about my gender, you probably shouldn't assume somthing like that. Hey, you never know.
2) I knew there would be salt. but.... If people can't handle people not agreeing with their opinions, then they should just stop having them or living (also, hence the title)

 

[9bit]

 

[Papa+Stone]

THere, I added a disclaimer.

"This man didnt know any better and was just asking to share his views on a website where he figured people would listen. If you truly wanted to help you couldve linked him the old discussions. Learn a little compassion my friend. "

A few things
1) Although you are right about my gender, you probably shouldn't assume somthing like that. Hey, you never know.
2) I knew there would be salt. but.... If people can't handle people not agreeing with their opinions, then they should just stop having them or living (also, hence the title)

Oh... I never meant to cause any trouble I just hate seeing people ganged up on like that by strangers. im sorry ive just had a few bad experiences in my past, I just hope theres no bad blood between any of us

 

[W¡ndy]

Oh... I never meant to cause any trouble I just hate seeing people ganged up on like that by strangers. im sorry ive just had a few bad experiences in my past, I just hope theres no bad blood between any of us

Nah, It's cool. Just don't want any misconceptions about my intentions.
After all, a rule fo the internet is that people will attack your opinions.

 

[Papa+Stone]

Nah, It's cool. Just don't want any misconceptions about my intentions.
After all, a rule fo the internet is that people will attack your opinions.

Haha you got that right

 

[Sixth-Sense]

Arguments are a part of life.
If this gets to heated, then the mods can shut it down ( or tell the people arguing to cool it) at a moments notice.

after all, Project:M wouldn't have been made if nobody argued that some parts of melee were better than some parts of brawl would it?

Not the point, this has happened too many times and it ends up the same, and i don't think mods appreciate that way of thinking

This man didnt know any better and was just asking to share his views on a website where he figured people would listen. If you truly wanted to help you couldve linked him the old discussions. Learn a little compassion my friend.

Very true, but to make a thread about it is too much, he could have asked the social thread, simple as that, and since you seem to be ok with another one of these subjects you could have linked him to all of the threads where this has been discussed

EDIT: forgot to say, i'm out, and i'm saying all of this bc this same thing happened to me in December, wasn't the same subject but there was a misunderstanding, and i believed i was being attacked, when in reality i just got a little salty and took everything to seriously, again, this is better in the social forum or in the Fox/Falco forum

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

So Windy, if they were to change Fox and/or Falco, what changes would you like them to make?

 

[W¡ndy]

AAAAAAAAND......

/THATARGUMENTABOVEME.

Don't want this getting derailed.

I see your point but.......
---------------------------------------------------------

@directly above me.

Well, since I don't play them that often, I guess it would be up to the Backroom to use their creativity.

after all.... they completely remade lucario in a way that I woulda never seen coming

this is not to say that if I were to sit down and spend a few good hours analyzing their movesets I wouldn't be able to come up with something.

 

[Papa+Stone]

Not the point, this has happened too many times and it ends up the same, and i don't think mods appreciate that way of thinking



Very true, but to make a thread about it is too much, he could have asked the social thread, simple as that, and since you seem to be ok with another one of these subjects you could have linked him to all of the threads where this has been discussed

Oh i would steer clear of the social thread if I were you, that place is impure

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

AAAAAAAAND......

/THATARGUMENTABOVEME.

Don't want this getting derailed.

I see your point but.......

If your talking to me then I wasn't trying to argue, I just wanted to discuss possible changes to the characters you want changed. I personally don't mind if they do or don't get changed so i just wanted to see your and other people's ideas on the subject.

 

[W¡ndy]

If your talking to me then I wasn't trying to argue, I just wanted to discuss possible changes to the characters you want changed. I personally don't mind if they do or don't get changed so i just wanted to see your and other people's ideas on the subject.

Didn't see your post before I typed that.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Didn't see your post before I typed that.

oh ok, I thought you thought I was trying to argue "why should we change them if you can't even give us a good idea of how to change them?"

 

[Papa+Stone]

AAAAAAAAND......

/THATARGUMENTABOVEME.

Don't want this getting derailed.

I see your point but.......
---------------------------------------------------------

@directly above me.

Well, since I don't play them that often, I guess it would be up to the Backroom to use their creativity.

after all.... they completely remade lucario in a way that I woulda never seen coming

this is not to say that if I were to sit down and spend a few good hours analyzing their movesets I wouldn't be able to come up with something.

Melee Fox and falco are already the most creative characters in any smash game to date. Not a gimmick yet not boring and fun with a potential playstyle for all sorts of players. Theres a reason why people play them, otherwise melee would be filled with sheik mains

 

[W¡ndy]

Melee Fox and falco are already the most creative characters in any smash game to date. Not a gimmick yet not boring and fun with a potential playstyle for all sorts of players. Theres a reason why people play them, otherwise melee would be filled with sheik mains

I find Kirby's move-set to be surprisingly similar.
The only thing i find unique about them, is their funny gravity.

 

[Papa+Stone]

I find Kirby's move-set to be surprisingly similar.
The only thing i find unique about them, is their funny gravity.

Well nobody else has their movesets so theyre pretty unique

 

[Kati]

This isn't even a sensitive topic... it's one that isn't up for discussion. Spacies aren't going to be revamped. They are top tier and changing them would requires insane amounts of testing and consideration in order to retain spacie mains without breaking them even further.

 

[W¡ndy]

Just cause something wont happen doesnt mean you can't discuss it.

See the movie 2012.
see sci-fi movies
see the phrase "what if"


also, see metaknight. he was top tier. they changed him

also, just cause something is good, doesn't mean you cant change it.

 

[DrinkingFood]

This discussion has already been done to death. There's a thread with dozens of pages with dozens of posts each with a dozen paragraphs in many of said posts. Long story short, you're late to the party. I get the impression that you didn't already know this. Which is fine, not knowing that your thread is a waste of space until somebody points it out isn't your fault. Just don't be the guy that defends himself after somebody points out where he went wrong. It's stubborn with no purpose. If P:MBR has decided on any plans to change the spacies they would have done it by now. And they did actually. Small changes that are nonetheless there. Getting revamped is out of the question. Only brawl characters get that treatment so they can fit in the Melee environment. Melee characters do not. Even low tiers weren't revamped for the most part, they just got either big buffs to their existing tools or new tools that compliment their existing ones. This thread should be locked tbh.

 

[NightShadow6]

Spacies are fine, a lot of anti spacie tech has been thrown around too characters.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

At the very least, Falco can DACUS and Gatling Combo, and Fox can spam the **** out of dashing Up C-Stick. Additionally, they both can B-Reverse (common) and Glide Toss (not so common but it's there). Plus both of them had their shine invincibility removed or something like that iirc. Plus a few other minor differences.

Small changes, but it's something to note.

 

[Kit Cal-N]

Make 'em Melee PAL and I'm good.

 

[leelue]

I'm just perturbed that so many people said that the project "Started one way" and this means that it should always stick to that, as it is in heaven, forever and ever, amen.

I am not saying one thing or another about changing spacies at this time, but to say that an idea from 4+ years ago should dictate decisions in the present is suspect to me.

 

[Deleted member]

i hit yes to allow changes to them, but only a VERY LITTLE. so basically what the pmbr already said they'd do.