A Somewhat Safeway to Using Link's Kill Moves

[Scabe]

Hold a Bomb and use the explosion to hit you in your lag.

The way I count when my Bombs are going to explode is I start counting when I see the bomb appear.

I count with
1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi, 3 Mississippi, 4 Mississippi,
5 (This is when it starts flashing) Mississippi,
6 Missi (Is when the bomb explodes)

On 6, you can do Fsmash 1, and Up B and it will explode after the hitbox.
On 5 Missippi you can do Fsmash 2
On 5 you can ZAC Dair
On 4 you can DACUS

The downside is that the bomb explosion can put Link in a bad position.

Just so you know, Link can Fsmash while holding a bomb by holding A after an action, and then using C stick to initiate the Smash.

Dair

Link's actually pretty Lucky to have such a strong aerial move that has a very long hitbox.

It's a move which is hard to land, you have to be unexpected with it.

You really want to avoid Dair landing lag.

Times to use it is when your opponent recovers low offstage. Remember to save your double jump. I use to use Dair after my double jump which you shouldn't do ever. Link's Double Jump is too precious to waste.

On the Ledge if you jump you can Dair and then Drift back offstage where you'll still have your Double Jump to come back.

On the Ledge you can actually Autocancel Dair which is a good fake out when they try to punish your landing. To Autocancel Dair, you want to double jump at the peak of the first jump. When you use your Double Jump, you have to press it at around the same time that you input a Dair.

When your on Platforms you can Autocancel by Jumping + Dair.

Anyways I've decided to share things that I think most people don't know about, so expect to see threads like this in the future.

 

[Ryos4]

To be honest i find his Utilt to be his safest killing move. Even if you spam the crap out of Utilt which i usually do it can still kill at like 150% + probably. Its fast, big coverage, hits behind Link, and its has a few ways of comboing into it ("Drop kick combo"). It also goes through many of the platforms.

 

[quirkynature]

Scabe, the bit on the D-air was AMAZINGLY useful. I'll try it out tomorrow!!

@Ryos: I prefer using his F-tilt. It's not the safest, not as fast as U-tilt, not as wide coverage but it still has interruption properties a little behind him, and great power in front, so that works out. It's a bit on the slow side, so F-smash inputs if speed is needed.

 

[Huggles828]

I try to never get caught in dair landing lag; not unless I'm sure it will hit. I tend to full hop it and try to autocancel it by bouncing on the opponent's shield if it misses. I've never thought of trying to ZAC dair before. Definitely something I'm willing to give a shot.

 

[IYM!]

i dont use very much the Dair for kill, i do it each time i have the chance, so, this is useull to give damage, and keep fresh the F and Dsmash, and the Utilt

 

[Scabe]

Up tilt is pretty laggy if missed. The back hit of it you have 23 frames of lag while the front hit is about 28 frames. But it's a good kill move I agree.

I think maybe Link's safest but hard to land kill move is the second hit of Fair.

On 4 seconds you can do a DACUS.

I'll talk about playing safe in a new thread sometime.

 

[IYM!]

what mean DACUS??

DACUS = DAC (Dash Attack Cancel) ????

 

[Scabe]

Dash Attack Cancelled Up Smash. It's got way too many different names for it.

 

[Huggles828]

I've noticed I've been using fair a ton lately; it's always kinda stale for me, haha. And I've been rolling a lot less lately, like three or four times a match; I almost always either spot dodge, SHAD (usually to zair), or try to nair (and occasionally bair) OoS and kinda float away.

I haven't been DACUSing a lot recently. I guess I feel like there's usually a better option. I've also noticed I really don't pay too much attention to my opponents' damage either (in terms of killing options); I just keep on plugging away until I feel like I have an opening to land a killing blow.

What do you guys think of these strategies? Are these things I need to incorporate more into my game, or are they useless or even dangerous tendencies?

Also, bombs explode right at 7 seconds, right?

 

[Scabe]

Do they really explode at 7 seconds? It's pretty hard to get an accurate counting of when the bomb explodes but the Mississippi thing works okayish for me.

But yeah sounds to me like your playing safer Huggles which is good.

Rolling for Link gives him 18 frames of vulnerability. That's horrid.

DACUS isn't good. It lasts for a while and then the cooldown is like 29 frames. So if you miss you're in for a punish.

 

[Ryos4]

I also find that many people who DAC tend to pass by their opponent, maybe doing the first or the second hit. Leaving them free to do w/e they feel like while the rest of the swings and ending lag take place. It is fast approach and everything but it only does like 17 damage max uncharged. 2 Utilts do more damage and is tons safer. I find Usmash only useful against spot dodgers (though i think some characters can spot dodge all of it) or if you're too lazy to properly time Utilt.

 

[Scabe]

This whole bomb detonation thing is something that I've only just learnt, so I haven't tried it on people yet. Hopefully it becomes somewhat useful.

 

[Itazuki]

I've attempted it incorporate it into my fighting style in the past, but it just never worked out for me. Not to discourage you or anything, I'd love to see a Link player be able to pull this off. It would only make us all the stronger.

 

[Gaist]

This is a really great idea guys, but there is only one problem with the strategy... It's the fact that you could be stacking alot of damage to yourself in the long run because each bomb inflicts around 7 damage. I also find the boomerang a good way to cancel Link's Dair ending lag by throwing it behind me then attacking with the Dair and then the catching animation overrides the ending lag without you taking any damage. However, it requires more of a set up.

Also, I've been wondering is a frame 1/60th of a second or 1/100th?

 

[quirkynature]

This is a really great idea guys, but there is only one problem with the strategy... It's the fact that you could be stacking alot of damage to yourself

Also, I've been wondering is a frame 1/60th of a second or 1/100th?

Firstly, welcome to Link Boards, Gaist.

Secondly, the best way to avoid damage would be turn off Brawl completely and say you've never received damage--and you'd be right. Obviously, we'd try NOT to get damaged by our own bomb. It's one of the sillier things to do with Link, but sure.

Thirdly, the 'rang return lag cancel is widely known, but good you still put it out there.

Fourthly, one frame= 1/60th second. D-air landing lag is 52 frames= almost a second.

 

[Gaist]

Lol, Thanks quirkynature, I keep forgetting how long a frame is. I've been researching Brawl Link alot so I just felt inclined to throw that info out and contribute a little, but thanks again.

 

[Ryos4]

i think its 60 just like quirk said.

 

[Huggles828]

It's 60 fps.

Link can take some damage from his bomb, but if anyone is suited to eat damage and not care too much, Link is up there; he's pretty heavy. Plus, if that bomb spares you from a chaingrab or a combo or even just a smash attack, you're "saving" damage in the long run.

Actually, I don't think I've ever seen the boomerang cancel out landing lag of dair before. Is it really that useful? I usually just try to autocancel it.

 

[Ryos4]

It can be useful but it takes a lot of effort at timing to actually use it. I would never actually waste effort trying to do it.

 

[Gaist]

Well like I said it requires more of a set up, so I find only truly useful in the mind-games department because most of the time I probably wouldn't be thinking that far ahead and thats a good point about "saving" damage. I just wasn't thinking that way before.

 

[Ryos4]

Yeah i find bombs are a good way to not only avoid higher damaging combos/attacks, even if you are hit by them it may help you by changing your momentum upward instead of more horizontally or even down.

 

[Rizen]

Dair out-lasts airdodges, guide it into the opponent as they fall. It's a great punishing move for landings, dodges, and recoveries that must move into it. If Dair isn't used to punish it must stay in the air for 64 frames-over a second to landing cancel. This includes if and when Link's rising and Dair-ing. To be sure it landing cancels when slow-falling (no bounce or rise) you must start at this height (copied from a guide I made):
"(Everyone love pictures) This is a combination of several screenshots to show relative air maneuver spacing. Light blue is the normal falling hitbox, dark blue is fast falling. These images are accurate through testing but not 100%. The far right ones were pasted there for clarity; Link didn’t jump that far. All moves are aimed right.

1 Start, 2 double jump height (from the second platform), 3 Nair hitbox, 4 air dodge distance, 5 Bair hitbox, 6 Zair hitbox, 7 Dair (slow) auto cancel height.
Notice: Some of Link’s moves are in affect for a longer distance than he can jump: I started each move double jumping from the second platform from the ground. Forward momentum is included; the same distance applies to backwards falling. Pair disjointed hitboxes with thier range canceling properties and Link is largely safe during backwards fast falling moves. Auto cancel aerials keep attacking until they land or end; short grounded opponents will be hit if the move is spaced right. Hold up on the control stick after entering a move and tap ‘A’ as Link lands to Utilt follow up."
Zair's hitbubble follows the claw, it's hard to tell from this.

 

[Gaist]

Which do you guys think is safer: Link's F-tilt or his F-smash?
Because I think that both come out, attack, and end roughly at the same time. Although, you can pivot boost the F-tilt, but you can also swing twice with the F-smash if you miss with the first.

Also, from my personal experience, I use the F-tilt as more of a killing move because I use F-smash for damage racking because of the possible second swing esspecially at low percentages and as such my F-tilt which I don't use often is fresh so I use it to kill. Is that smart smashing or should I revise my gameplay?

 

[Luxor]

...I was going to answer you by directing you to Link's frame data thread, but I couldn't seem to find one.
Does Link really not have a frame data thread? I can't find one, so I'll put what I gathered for the Smash Lab here. I did Link.

Spoiler

Now with extra MS Paint!

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

That's some good frame data. There was a frame data thread, but it was horribad so it was gotten rid of. Maybe you could chuck that in a thread by itself (maybe re-formate it a bit?) when you get some time.

As for the topic of this thread, don't worry about the extra damage too much. I think someone said it was like 7% damage? lol no. If you're just holding the bomb, it's only gonna do somewhere between 2 and 5% depending on how stale it is. So it's not too bad.

Another way of doing this that doesn't involve counting in your head would be to just Z-drop the bomb before you land and input the kill move as soon as you land. As long as you are falling when you Z-drop it and as long as you are close to the ground, you can use a D-smash, F-smash, Up-B or whatever you want really, and the Bomb will instantly interupt any lag and it will be replaced by the Bomb lag. Alternatively, instead of Z-dropping the Bomb, you can Ibomb to the ground and use your smash as soon as you land. It's pretty much what Toon does to pull off his 1hko D-smash thing. Well Link can use the same technique only to interupt his smashes or grounded Up-B. The downside to doing it this way is there will be a little more damage. You'll recieve between 7 and 3% depending on how stale it is. Also, you won't be able to use it for aerials because if you Ibomb to the ground and then instantly Jump and aerial, Link will re-catch the bomb and there'll be no explosion.

 

[Luxor]

^Already done.

 

[Gaist]

I didn't need the frame data, because I already saw a thread of it in the All is Brawl forums, but thanks anyways...

According to that thread...
The F-tilt hitbox comes out frame 14 and ends on frame 18 with IASA at frame 39.
The F-smash first hitbox comes out frame 13 and ends on frame 16 with IASA on frame 47, but the second hitbox or swing can appear as early as frame 19 for 3 frames with IASA on frame 57.

I believe their calculations and my frame translations are roughly correct, which would mean that the F-tilt has slightly slower startup, but hitbox lasts a little longer and has less ending lag, but the f-smash comes out a little quicker and can hit twice, but the hitbox is shorter lasting and has more ending lag.

*Please reply if I made an error so I can correct it.*

Also, when I asked earlier which move was safer I also wanted to know how you guys use each move in general whether it be to punish, KO, stack damage, or to "combo".

 

[Drigo Toes]

Well... i don't know if it really useful; but you can also cancel Dair with Boomerang...

 

[quirkynature]

Well... i don't know if it really useful; but you can also cancel Dair with Boomerang...

Welcome to the Link boards.

Your aforementioned post is redundant because:

1) Gaist already mentioned this in the last page (page 1)
2) It's a well known fact, but thanks for submitting it anyway

 

[Drigo Toes]

Welcome to the Link boards.

Your aforementioned post is redundant because:

1) Gaist already mentioned this in the last page (page 1)
2) It's a well known fact, but thanks for submitting it anyway

Oh, sorry... I over-read the posts, and don't repare in the Gaist Post.

And thanks for the welcome...