A Quick Ramble on Hypothetical Fire Emblem Newcomers and Fates of Veterens

Pholadis

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Jan 15, 2012
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The amount of Fire Emblem fighters in Smash has upset quite a few people. It doesn’t really upset me, but I do feel the fighters that did make it in represent a missed opportunity and could be better. And if something could be better, then I will invariably spend far too much time thinking about it.

I think we would be happier if the included fighters were shaken up a bit. I once saw a post on Twitter by someone - forgot who, sorry - that put forth the idea to have a theme around representing the various weapons used in Fire Emblem. I think that’s a good idea, and have thought up a few roster adjustments.

First up, the people who can stay. I think Marth, Ike, and Robin are fine. Marth has Smash staying power sense he’s been brawling with the best of them since Melee, he has a fun and skillful moveset, is the very first FE lord, and is pretty much the face of the franchise. Ike has only a little less time in the series, but his heavy sword provides a bit of sword variety and is very different than Marth, and he fights for his friends. Robin’s moveset is arguably the most unique of all the FE reps. It’s the least Marth-like and even incorporates a few key gameplay elements of his home series. And he tips the scales.

Now, I think an issue people take with the FE reps is that they’re too similar to each other. I sort of agree, seeing how one of Marth’s clones has his own clone now. And on the subject of clones, that brings up Lucina and Chrom. I think they should go. Lucina has a measly two differences from Marth: she’s slightly shorter, and she’s easier to play than Marth. That’s not good enough in my eyes. Chrom has a wealth of aesthetic differences, and his up special is completely different than Roy’s, but the most significant difference to Roy is the lack of a hilt-box. Again, this is not good enough in my eyes. They could be given the Alph treatment and be made a very fancy palette swap, but if space needs to be made or if time needs to be saved, they should be the first to go.

But what about Roy? He’s a clone of Marth, and in Melee his differences were very minute, but his clone status has been greatly reduced since his return as DLC in 4, and now has a totally distinct play style and feel from Marth. Furthermore: Roys our boy! We can’t just dump our boy like that! It’s cruel! So, Roy could stay, but he’s still expendable. Sorry Roy.

Byleth is on the exact middle in my mind. It really depends on how the rest of my changes would feel, which I know is weak as all hell, but Byleth’s fine as things go. The worst part about them was the environment around their inclusion. People have gotten over it by now, I think.

Last one up is Corrin, and they’re halfway between Byleth and Lucina/Chrom. They most likely could go, or they could stay. Their moveset’s transformation gimmick is what they’re hanging on with, but their association with Fates and all of Fate’s flaws and downfalls is really dragging them down. Not to mention the environment of their inclusion was definitely not the best. It really depends on if they could be reliably replaced by someone who can transform better, and I have a candidate in mind that may do the trick.

So that’s the veterans kind of sorted, how about some newcomers? I’m running with that weaponry variety idea. Sword is covered to hell and back, and Robin’s bringing the magic. Byleth has a bit of everything martial, but playing as them just has me wishing for some fighters dedicated to the other weapons. Playing as them, in fact, was a major spark for this little rant, as they gave me a taste of what could be. So, who can bring on the axes, lances, bows, or stones?

Axe is easy: Hector. He’s the quintessential axeman. He’s a large lad so he could have a fun heavy playstyle, his brash and sort-of-crude personality adds some variety to the cast, and his game was the first FE game with an official western release. And he's not a blue-haired sword lord! He's a blue-haired axe lord, but still! Hector would be a great addition.

Lance is also easy: Ephraim. Honestly, the arguments for his inclusion has a lot of overlap with Hector. I can imagine his moveset being the master of spacing. He’d be a great medium man with weight vs speed in relation to the other FE reps. His personality is similar to Hector, but it's of a more dutiful and serious variety... And his hair isn’t blue! It’s, like, turquoise, but it still counts!

Bow... could be skipped if you want to reduce the number of FE reps. But I’m sticking to the theme, so my suggestion: Claude. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think he’s the only bow lord in FE. The biggest question is what kind of moveset one could make for him. Sure you could have him whacking his enemies bodily with the bow, and Claude is definitely the kind of dude to do that a few times, but all the time? That would just turn the bow into a fancy stick. Maybe give him really short ranged projectiles? Bit of both? And how many specials can we give him that's just "shoot a fancy arrow"? It would take some brainstorming, but it’s doable. And I have a friend that wants to see a bow user with a throw that's just them using their opponent as an arrow and I find that hilarious.

Last up is stones, and by stones I mean transformation. This is what’s keeping me from dropping Corrin entirely. They transform... except not really? They just shift specific parts of themselves for a few moves, so does that really count? They only go full dragon when they use their final smash or down special. I don’t think it counts. I think they should be replaced.

And who best to replace them than one of the the very first dragon units? The character that codified the archetype ever since they showed up in the very first FE game? Tiki, that’s who. And I’d prefer adult Tiki over her child self; she’s cooler. Make her a pseudo-heavy weight with a transformation gimmick, maybe similar to Joker’s Arsene, where she needs to achieve something to be able to shift from human to dragon. Make her attacks light and quick while human, but the complete opposite while transformed. Oooh, mix Arsene with Limit Break! She builds up a bar and activates it with a special. She does not get the stat buffs until she uses a special and goes dragon mode, then she gets the buffs as she stays a dragon for a while. From there it resembles Arsene, but maybe specials take a chunk of dragon meter away.


My final roster: Marth, Roy, Ike, Robin, Hector, Ephraim, Claude, Tiki. Maybe exclude Roy, maybe replace Tiki with Corrin, maybe replace Claude with Byleth, maybe make Lucina and Chrom Alph-style palette swaps of Marth and Roy. I believe this selection of dudes would provide the best variety of aesthetic, playstyle, and representation of Fire Emblem.
 

crazybenjamin

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Why do people always forget that Chrom was a heavily requested character?
 

Wario Wario Wario

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To me the problem with FE is the quantity, not the quality. If Everyone is Here wasn't a thing, multiple other series had the same amount of characters, or FE didn't get a high amount of newcomers in 3DS/Wii U Byleth probably would've been a decent reveal - but when FE, a mildly niche series that only really has a fanbase within the Nintendo community outside of Japan, has more characters than series like Donkey Kong, Kirby, Zelda and god damn SONIC THE HEDGEHOG, then it's a problem, and stripping Byleth of his sword or revealing him earlier the Fighters' Pass wouldn't change a little bit.
 
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Ben Holt

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To me the problem with FE is the quantity, not the quality. If Everyone is Here wasn't a thing, multiple other series had the same amount of characters, or FE didn't get a high amount of newcomers in 3DS/Wii U Byleth probably would've been a decent reveal - but when FE, a mildly niche series that only really has a fanbase within the Nintendo community outside of Japan, has more characters than series like Donkey Kong, Kirby, Zelda and god damn SONIC THE HEDGEHOG, then it's a problem, and stripping Byleth of his sword or revealing him earlier the Fighters' Pass wouldn't change a little bit.
I support 8 Sonic characters.
Sonic, Shadow, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman (Death Egg Robot Final Smash and Boss Fight like Giga Bowser and Beast Ganon), Amy, Silver, and Metal Sonic.
 

Oddball

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To me the problem with FE is the quantity, not the quality. If Everyone is Here wasn't a thing, multiple other series had the same amount of characters, or FE didn't get a high amount of newcomers in 3DS/Wii U Byleth probably would've been a decent reveal - but when FE, a mildly niche series that only really has a fanbase within the Nintendo community outside of Japan, has more characters than series like Donkey Kong, Kirby, Zelda and god damn SONIC THE HEDGEHOG, then it's a problem, and stripping Byleth of his sword or revealing him earlier the Fighters' Pass wouldn't change a little bit.
If you want to break it down by series, it looks even worse. Fire Emblem surpasses Zelda in characters and has just as many as Pokemon. If you want to count Wario and Yoshi as being their own series not Mario character the way Smash does then they have almost as much as Nintendo's top dog itself.

:ultmario::ultdoc::ultluigi::ultpeach::ultdaisy::ultrosalina::ultbowser::ultbowserjr::ultpiranha::ultwario::ultyoshi:
:ultmarth::ultlucina::ultike::ultchrom::ultbyleth::ultroy::ultcorrin::ultrobin:
:ultpokemontrainer::ultpikachu::ultpichu::ultjigglypuff::ultmewtwo::ultgreninja::ultlucario::ultincineroar:
:ultlink::ulttoonlink::ultyounglink::ultzelda::ultsheik::ultganondorf:
:ultsamus::ultdarksamus::ultzss::ultridley:
:ultdk::ultdiddy::ultkrool:
:ultkirby::ultmetaknight::ultkingdedede:
:ultfox::ultfalco::ultwolf:
:ultpalutena::ultpit::ultdarkpit:
 

Pupp135

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Mar 30, 2020
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I like TC’s idea on how to change the FE roster by adding characters representing different weapons along with coming from games w/o reps like Ephraim.

To me, I feel like the biggest problem FE has is that most fighters are added to represent/advertise the most recent game with :ultmarth::ultchrom: being the only exceptions (while they were added for being clones, the games :ultroy::ultlucina: were in either was released soon after their addition or was the most recent release), and this could also be considered a problem for Pokemon depending on how you look at it. Along with the two added by popular demand, I feel that :ultike::ultrobin::ultbyleth: have held their ground since the former is the most popular lord, :ultrobin: represents mages, avatars, and weapon durability, and the latter comes from the most successful game and uses lances, axes, and bows, and there would probably be divisive opinions on which house leader should be in.
While I think these characters would represent FE pretty well, I’d be open to having more fighters since it’s my favorite Nintendo series, with all 4 of your choices being interesting picks along with Lyn, who‘s also really popular.


While there are 8 reps, I feel like that’s a side effect from what I think is the main problem in addition to clone padding, and I’m not too concerned about even representation of series, otherwise Metroid would probably not have 4 reps (1 is an echo, but still), and Mother would be lucky to just have one.
 

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,485
To me the problem with FE is the quantity, not the quality. If Everyone is Here wasn't a thing, multiple other series had the same amount of characters, or FE didn't get a high amount of newcomers in 3DS/Wii U Byleth probably would've been a decent reveal - but when FE, a mildly niche series that only really has a fanbase within the Nintendo community outside of Japan, has more characters than series like Donkey Kong, Kirby, Zelda and god damn SONIC THE HEDGEHOG, then it's a problem, and stripping Byleth of his sword or revealing him earlier the Fighters' Pass wouldn't change a little bit.
Some series inherently just don't have much to give. Take Metroid for example. Popular series, but the only real staple characters are Samus and Ridley. Giving that series a whole bunch of one-shots like the bounty hunters from MP3 and MPH would be silly.

And you're obsession with Sonic needing more characters is pure entitlement. They have to work with Sega who probably doesn't want Sonic to have so many characters in Smash.
 
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