A Plumber's Tools - The Mario Moveset Discussion! #8: Bair.

[:mad:]

Mario's best damage dealer at low percents. It's an easy 25% on many characters (or even like 40% on fastfallers) by itself if you get it off at low percents (beware, at 0%, if your opponent is smart, they will shield the 2nd U-tilt, so instead of U-tilting there, do a D-throw to be safe).

U-tilt juggles set up perfectly into U-air juggles, and you can get off about 50% if you connect with a U-tilt juggle and two U-airs. The thing that is so great about U-tilt juggles is that even if you don't commit to just U-tilts, Mario is almost always able to mix up with something faster than his opponent can do other attacks.

U-tilt hits through BF platforms. U-tilt is good setup for jablocks on Luigi's Mansion. This move is the reason why characters need to be cautious of Mario at low percents, because one U-tilt at the right moment can carry them to 60% quickly.

Thanks for the input.
I'm glad we have a longer explanation. I already have most of this down, but I'll quote this for justice.

 

[Ray/Boshi]

If the opponet has a quick Nair or other means to get out the Utilt chain rather quickly. Just Utilt once or twice then let them fall in front of you, shield grab them to a Dthrow, and just go from there.

Can also pivot grab them after a Utilt, depending on the circumstance.

 

[:mad:]

Thanks for the useful post/bump, man.
I'll add that.

 

[Ray/Boshi]

Very rarely, but it happens. Ive also gotten a few KO's in from using Utilt. Mostly when I start off in a fresh stock after being KOed.

Opponet usually has to be in a pretty decently high % though.

Overall. Utilt's nice due to it's slightly ranged hitbox and starting/ending frames. Very good low % combo starter, and a safe option of an attack to use in the higher %'s.


~Also. Yes, Dtilt sucks. But it's useful to incorporate.

 

[:mad:]

Dtilt's gonna be done last, for good measure.
I'll start down smash tomorrow afternoon.

 

[Matador]

Dsmash...my favorite smash in the game.

 

[:mad:]

I feel like a ROB player.
Lately, I've kept doing spotdodge > Downsmash.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Osht almost missed Utilt discussion.

It can kill medium-weight characters at 150% I believe.

I have hardly any time to read, so I'll just post that.

 

[:mad:]

That works, for now.
Did you ever get that computer?

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

No. My dad is thinking about getting me one though.

So... poor.

 

[:mad:]

You really need one, we need more people.
This place is so dead nowadays.

 

[bobson]

Is weak nair > utilt a true combo?
I use it a lot.

 

[SkylerOcon]

It might be if you land the Nair close to the ground. I'll check next time I play with somebody.

 

[Spoonbob]

I passionately love utilt. <3

You can get a bunch of hits with pretty much any character and using it on Fox is like sex on a moonlit beach. <3<3<3

 

[Judge Judy]

Is weak nair > utilt a true combo?
I use it a lot.

It is; pretty much anything 10 frames or less is a true combo out of a weak Nair, execpt I forgot the exact percents they work at...

It might be if you land the Nair close to the ground. I'll check next time I play with somebody.

This^^^

 

[:mad:]

I just fastfall a sourspotted nair to uptilt.
Skyler, why have you not posted anything on uptilt yet?

 

[:mad:]

Bump. Downsmash discussion's officially open. o:
Sorry for the delay, real life.

 

[Matt07]

Dsmash is quick (comes out on frame 5), is awesome for punishing people. A little on the weak side however.

 

[SkylerOcon]

I didn't post anything on Utilt because everything that needed to be said had been said.

Alright, then... Downsmash...

I guess you can use it to kill at high percents (and I'm not talking 120, I'm talking 140), but it's best use is as a GTFO move. Gets your opponent away from you and deals some pretty good damage. It's also just as fast as MK's down smash, I think, though it doesn't have the same kill power.

It's a pretty decent move. Though the jab is faster and all that, this is good for when you have the opening and for getting opponents off stage.

 

[Matador]

Mine is NEVER fresh. It's too good of a punisher for that. Mostly used OOS when grab won't reach. Excellent for gimp setups. The damage is nice and is fast enough to true combo into a few things. Its utilization is pretty straightforward however. It's not a (reliable) killer, just a damage dealer.

Sometimes I'll jab, then turn the Dsmash around and hit with the second hit to punish reflexive spotdodging.

 

[:mad:]

Good stuff, guys. I'll add this to the OP soon.

 

[Ray/Boshi]

It's good to use if you predict an opponet who rolls behind you. When Mario's sweeps the back of him, he'll get with him on the comearound.

I sometimes charge it slightly just to be creative. It's range is dcecent.

Dsmash is quick. Very good get off me type of punishing move. Compliments Jabs, and tilts nicely.

 

[hippiedude92]

spotdodge > dsmash = every mario lives out of at least that's what i do. It kills Mks around 100% or 120% even with stale its sexy. one of his best ground moves for sure probbably next to fsmash.

 

[:mad:]

spotdodge > dsmash = every mario lives out of at least that's what i do. It kills Mks around 100% or 120% even with stale its sexy. one of his best ground moves for sure probbably next to fsmash.

Spotdodge > Dsmash? No way. We're not ROB. Have some pride.


I have some time, I'll add everything to the OP now.

 

[MRTW113]

When I'm against a Mario at 100%, dsmash gets pretty scary for me. It can really be pulled out quick, and the lags not too bad. I haven't seen much Mario lately, and I've fallen behind in combos. Does A-A-DSmash work?

 

[A2ZOMG]

If you Jab cancel perfectly, Jab Down-Smash I believe is a combo, but the timing is seems very strict and not easy to buffer. Usually Jab Down-Smash works better when you intercept an aerial opponent with a Jab. Or you have to count on your opponent messing up. You can also combo into Down-Smash with U-air juggles at low percents. D-air -> Down-Smash is also good. F-air -> D-smash is sometimes even a combo on fastfallers.

Anyhow, Down-Smash is essential to Mario's ground game. Frame 5, good damage, good knockback, good trajectory, not too laggy, acceptable range. Sometimes it ducks under certain attacks.

Basically it's like Metaknight's D-smash, except nobody complains about it being broken. You can pretty much use it in the same situations and get similar results. Near the edge, it sometimes gets KOs due to the trajectory. It gets people offstage 90% of the time otherwise. Good for punishing rolls sometimes.

I don't really consider Down-Smash a staple of Mario's game, but it still is essential to use as it's one of his best damage dealers regardless after you have exhausted Mario's low percent combos, and great for mixing things up after you have staled out U-air and B-air to death. This attack should definitely be considered when you're trying to save other moves for KOs.

 

[:mad:]

If you Jab cancel perfectly, Jab Down-Smash I believe is a combo, but the timing is seems very strict and not easy to buffer. Usually Jab Down-Smash works better when you intercept an aerial opponent with a Jab. Or you have to count on your opponent messing up. You can also combo into Down-Smash with U-air juggles at low percents. D-air -> Down-Smash is also good. F-air -> D-smash is sometimes even a combo on fastfallers.

Anyhow, Down-Smash is essential to Mario's ground game. Frame 5, good damage, good knockback, good trajectory, not too laggy, acceptable range. Sometimes it ducks under certain attacks.

Basically it's like Metaknight's D-smash, except nobody complains about it being broken. You can pretty much use it in the same situations and get similar results. Near the edge, it sometimes gets KOs due to the trajectory. It gets people offstage 90% of the time otherwise. Good for punishing rolls sometimes.

I don't really consider Down-Smash a staple of Mario's game, but it still is essential to use as it's one of his best damage dealers regardless after you have exhausted Mario's low percent combos, and great for mixing things up after you have staled out U-air and B-air to death. This attack should definitely be considered when you're trying to save other moves for KOs.

Probably the best explanation yet.
GG's.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Just here to confirm that sourspot Nair to Utilt IS a true combo at low percents.

 

[:mad:]

Just here to confirm that sourspot Nair to Utilt IS a true combo at low percents.

Yup. I just fastfall nair > uptilt.
We'll start fsmash tomorrow, then go on to upsmash.
+ aerials after that.

 

[Fire!]

Bump, if I'm going to make that video guide. Do Upsmash. FSmash is almost self explanatory.

 

[:mad:]

Thanks for the reply, I didn't wanna double-post. I'll start doing these weekly since we have such little discussion. I'll start Upsmash tomorrow.

 

[Judge Judy]

Thanks for the reply, I didn't wanna double-post. I'll start doing these weekly since we have such little discussion. I'll start Upsmash tomorrow.

All you need to know is that Usmash = insane priority

 

[A2ZOMG]

Up-smash...it's such a good attack.

I'm always torn over what I should use Up-smash for. It has decent range (behind and above Mario notably), speed, damage, knockback, and IIRC is the lowest lag of Mario's Smashes, so it's fairly safe to throw out. It's definitely one of Mario's best KO moves when saved, killing around 120% at average (Ness KOs with B-throw at this percent. Not bad when you think about it). On the other hand, it's a GREAT juggling tool at low percents, and at the same time a wonderful option out of shield, but if you use it before your opponent is at a KO percent, it will be extremely difficult to KO with it. You really have to make up your mind beforehand on what you are going to use Up-smash for, and if you're not using it SOMETIME in your match...either there is something wrong, or you're having one heck of a day landing F-smashes or gimping.

The way you use Up-smash should be different depending on your matchup and playstyle. Against a character like Ike who can be easily punished on block over and over again, you'll want to spam that Up-smash to get 14% on him every time he whiffs on your shield. Against a hard to hit character like G&W or Metaknight who die to vertical KO moves at pretty low percents, you'll want to save that Up-smash til 110% and keep an eye out for that one moment where you KNOW you got yourself a guaranteed KO.

Also, don't forget charging Up-smash from a dash or dash attack cancel causes you to slide a bit.

 

[:mad:]

I love how disjointed it is. I'll start up discussion on that now.

 

[:mad:]

Okay, on Friday, I'll start this up again, weekly.
So every Friday, new move.

 

[Fire!]

Maybe Bi-weekly?

 

[:mad:]

Possibly. I might as well update now.

 

[bobson]

Don't get used to punishing people behind you with usmash and people in front of you with dsmash and then switch to Ness.

That's all I have to say on the matter.

 

[:mad:]

Err, what? I didn't switch to Ness or anything, I've always used both Ness and Mario.
I know the difference.

 

[bobson]

Err, what? I didn't switch to Ness or anything, I've always used both Ness and Mario.
I know the difference.

S'nothing to do with you; I'm speaking from my own experience of punishing in the wrong direction three games in a row (and in turn getting punished for it).