indie_dave
Smash Ace
* * * * * * *
woops ignore...i dug up the melee results lol
* * * * * * *
hey everybody thanks for supporting this thread
basically teh hawaii boards and i got pretty suspicious at these lists a month or two ago and realized ANONYMOUS infects japan as well as america. in other words, these "chara ranks" are basically ANONYMOUS. they're not Ikki's. the first list wayyy back in april might be legit, but that's also questionable. Kamekasu was good enough to point that out here on swf. ENTIRELY MY FAULT for not saying so earlier. so yeah flame away or whatever gg everybody.
:jigglypuf
low..tires..ftw
http://mobile.seisyun.net/cgi/read.cgi/game13/game13_goveract_1207747647
post #313 Update 14.April.2008
S. Snake, Falco, MK, ROB
A. Fox
B. G&W, Diddy, Toon, Pit, Marf
C. ICs, Wolf, Olimar, ZeroSamus, Pikachu, Mario, Ryuka[=Lucas]
D. Kirby, Sheik, DeDeDe, Luigi, Lucario, Wario
E. Koopa, Samus, Zelda, Ness, Peach, Link
F. Ike, Sonic, DK, CF, Purin, PokeTore, Yoshi
G. Ganon ;_;
post #513 Update 17.April.2008 (again, idk what the asterisks signify)
S. Snake, Falco, MK, ROB
A. Fox
B. G&W, Diddy, Toon, Pit, Maruuuuusu
C. ICs, Wolf, Olimar, Kirby, ZeroSamus, Pikachu, *Mario, Ryuka, *Lucario
D. Sheik, DeDeDe, Luigi, Wario
E. *Koopa, Samus, Zelda, *DK, Ness, Peach, *Link
F. Ike, *Sonic, CF, Purin, *PokeTore, Yoshi
G. Ganon ;_;
post #726 Update 19.April.2008 (i saw several different lists posted on this date, but it'll take awhile to figure out which is legit..."Ikki" is mentioned throughout the board but atm i'm unsure as to which of these lists are attributed under his compilation work...and then again i might be completely off that it's even his in the first place) ^_^
S. Snake, Falco, MK, ROB
A. Fox
B. G&W, Diddy, Toon, Pit, Maaarusu
C. ICs, Wolf, Olimar, ZeroSamus, Pikachu, *Mario, Ryuka, *Lucario
D. *Kirby, Sheik, DeDeDe, Luigi, Wario
E. *Koopa, Samus, Zelda, *DK, Ness, Peach, *Link
F. Ike, *Sonic, CF, Purin, *PokeTore, Yoshi
G. Ganon ;_;
this is interesting; another list, apparently Rain's (fyi a player in Captain Jack's circle)
THE ORIGINAL ORIGINAL POST:
THE LISTS POSTED BELOW IN THIS THREAD ARE NOT "TIERS"
THEY ARE WEEKLY TOURNAMENT DATA COMPILATIONS FROM JAPAN
THEY ARE WEEKLY TOURNAMENT DATA COMPILATIONS FROM JAPAN
THEY ARE WEEKLY TOURNAMENT DATA COMPILATIONS FROM JAPAN
latest update: 4/10/08 japan list
^/v (up/down) denotes movement from LAST week's list
my take:
hmmmmmz not entirely sure what to make of this update. it's almost exactly the same as 2 weeks ago, with notable shifts up top in S-class, and biggest movement UP for Lucario and DK compared to 2 weeks ago
again, take it or leave it for what it's worth. /shrugs
also, there is no explanation in the same post as to what the asterisks might signify
as always, anybody able and willing to look closer please be our guest ^_^
4/10/08 japan キャラランク "chara rank" list
http://game13.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/famicom/1207761820/282-382
S. Snake, Falco(^), MK(^), ROB(v)
A. Fox(^)
B. G&W(^^^), Diddy(^), Toon(^^^), Pit(^^^^^), M4rfu(v)
C. ICs(vvv), Wolf(vvv), Olimar(^^^^^), ZeroSamus(^^^), Pikachu(vvv), *Mario(^^^), Lucas(v), *Lucario(^^^^^)
D. Kirby(^^^), Sheik(vvv), DDD(vvv), Luigi(^^^), Wario
E. *Koopa(vvvvv), Samus(vvv), Zelda(vvvvv), *DK(^), Ness(^^^), Peach(vvvvv), Link(^^^)
F. Ike(vvvvv), *Sonic(^), CF(^), Purin(^^^), *PokeTore(vvv), Yoshi(vvv)
G. Ganon(v)
update: 4/3/08 list
***japan is giving mad reps to Ike, Zelda, and Peach apparently atm
with big ups also to Koopa, Samus, DK, Yoshi, and PokeTore
Wolf and ICs broke S-tier, while other charas are losing out in last week's tourneys.
^/v (up/down) denotes movement from last week's list
feel free to discuss any errors or z0mg overlookd items
4/3/08 japan キャラランク "chara rank" list
http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi/game/42562/1204231339/l50
S. Snake, ROB, Falco, MK, Wolf(^), ICs(^^^)
A. Fox(v), Marfu(^), Diddy(v), G&W(vvv), Toon(v), Pikachu(v), Koopa (^^^)
B. Ike(^^^^^), Lucas(^), Zelda(^^^^^), Sheik(v), DDD(^), Peach(^^^^^), Pit(vvvvv), Zamus(vvv), Samus(^^^), Wario
C. Olimar (vvv), Mario (vvv), Luigi(vvv), Kirby(vvv), DK(^^^), Lucario(vvv), Yoshi (^^^), Ness(vvv)
D. PokeT(^^^), Sonic(v), Link(vvv), CF(v), Ganon (^), Purin (v) ;_;
3/29/08 japan キャラランク "chara rank" list:
http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi/game/42562/1204231339/l50
S. Snake, ROB, Falco, MK
A. Fox
B. G&W, Diddy, Toon Link, Pit, Marf
C. ICs, Wolf, Olimar, Zamus, Pikachu, Mario, Lucas
D. Kirby, Sheik, Dedede, Luigi, Lucario, Wario
E. Koopa, Samus, Zelda, Ness, Peach, Link
F. Ike, Sonic, DK, CF, Jiggs, PokeTore, Yoshi
G. Ganon ;_;
3/22/08 japan キャラランク "chara rank" list:
http://game13.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/goveract/1206175501/l50x
S. Snake, Robotto
A. Falco, MK
B. G&W, Diddy, Toon Link, Pit, Fox, M4rf
C. ICs, Wolf, Olimar, ZeroSamus, Pikachu, Mario, Lucas
D. Kirby, Sheik, Dedede, Luigi, Lucario, Wario
E. Koopa, Samus, Zelda, Ness, Peach, Link
F. Ike, Sonic, DK, CF, Jiggs, PokeTore, Yoshi
G. Ganon ;_;
3/19/08 japan キャラランク "chara rank" list:
http://longsense.blog80.fc2.com/blog-date-200803.html
S. MK, Falco, Robo, Fox, Snake
A. Marusu, Pit, Toon
B. Wolf, G&W, Diddy, Mario, AiKura, Zamus
C. Pikachu, Luigi, Kirby, Dedede, Wario, Lucario, Lucas, Olimar
D. Peach, Samus, Sheik, Ness, Jiggs, PokeTore, DK, Koopa
E. Link, Ike, Zelda, Sonic
F. CF
G. Ganon, Yoshi ;_;
edit1: fixed links
edit2: cleaned up notes
edit3: cleaned up post
edit4: cleaned up post, changed topic title from [Tires Don Exits: A Look at Japan's *WEEKLY* キャラランク "Chara Ranks"] to [A Look at Japan's *WEEKLY* キャラランク "Chara Ranks" (use Official Sticky for Tier Debate)]
edit5: update 4/10/08 list
edit6: rant bumproll ^_^
edit7: update 14.April, 17.April, 19.April
---
woops ignore...i dug up the melee results lol
* * * * * * *
hey everybody thanks for supporting this thread
basically teh hawaii boards and i got pretty suspicious at these lists a month or two ago and realized ANONYMOUS infects japan as well as america. in other words, these "chara ranks" are basically ANONYMOUS. they're not Ikki's. the first list wayyy back in april might be legit, but that's also questionable. Kamekasu was good enough to point that out here on swf. ENTIRELY MY FAULT for not saying so earlier. so yeah flame away or whatever gg everybody.
Code:
5/31/08 chara-rank
[URL="http://game13.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/goveract/1212219810/286-386"]http://game13.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/...219810/286-386[/URL]
S. Snake, Falco, MK, ROB
A. Diddy, Fox, Marusu
B. Wolf, G&W, Toon, Pit
C. ICs, Olimar, ZeroSamus, Pikachu, Mario, Lucario
D. Kirby, Sheik, DDD, *Lucas, Luigi, Wario
E. *Ike, Koopa, Zelda, DK, Ness, Peach, *Link
F. *Samus, Sonic, CF, Purin, PokeTore, Yoshi
G. Ganon
low..tires..ftw
http://mobile.seisyun.net/cgi/read.cgi/game13/game13_goveract_1207747647
post #313 Update 14.April.2008
S. Snake, Falco, MK, ROB
A. Fox
B. G&W, Diddy, Toon, Pit, Marf
C. ICs, Wolf, Olimar, ZeroSamus, Pikachu, Mario, Ryuka[=Lucas]
D. Kirby, Sheik, DeDeDe, Luigi, Lucario, Wario
E. Koopa, Samus, Zelda, Ness, Peach, Link
F. Ike, Sonic, DK, CF, Purin, PokeTore, Yoshi
G. Ganon ;_;
post #513 Update 17.April.2008 (again, idk what the asterisks signify)
S. Snake, Falco, MK, ROB
A. Fox
B. G&W, Diddy, Toon, Pit, Maruuuuusu
C. ICs, Wolf, Olimar, Kirby, ZeroSamus, Pikachu, *Mario, Ryuka, *Lucario
D. Sheik, DeDeDe, Luigi, Wario
E. *Koopa, Samus, Zelda, *DK, Ness, Peach, *Link
F. Ike, *Sonic, CF, Purin, *PokeTore, Yoshi
G. Ganon ;_;
post #726 Update 19.April.2008 (i saw several different lists posted on this date, but it'll take awhile to figure out which is legit..."Ikki" is mentioned throughout the board but atm i'm unsure as to which of these lists are attributed under his compilation work...and then again i might be completely off that it's even his in the first place) ^_^
S. Snake, Falco, MK, ROB
A. Fox
B. G&W, Diddy, Toon, Pit, Maaarusu
C. ICs, Wolf, Olimar, ZeroSamus, Pikachu, *Mario, Ryuka, *Lucario
D. *Kirby, Sheik, DeDeDe, Luigi, Wario
E. *Koopa, Samus, Zelda, *DK, Ness, Peach, *Link
F. Ike, *Sonic, CF, Purin, *PokeTore, Yoshi
G. Ganon ;_;
this is interesting; another list, apparently Rain's (fyi a player in Captain Jack's circle)
starting here:THE FOLLOWING is from my April 26th post.
IT IS A RANT directed at the misinformed who should really not talk at the expense of their intelligence's good repute.
TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT for what it's worth.
i firmly believe i'm doing this community of smashers, n00b and not, a favor by promoting discussion on what is and isn't a "tier". i've seen at least another thread created that used the same information i posted (AlphaZealot's textbook definition of "tiers"), so that corroborates this idea of mine as being a little less vain than it probably comes off as. if this topic keeps even one idiot from posting more youtube-comment-like garbage, then it's done it's job. what say you, Yuna, et al? wishful thinking? well, here's my contribution...i'm not the biggest contributer to this forum, but hey it is, at the end of the day, a video game.
Japan sucks at smash compared to North America.
I'm pretty sure they had their own tier list for Melee and Link was near the top.Tiers dont even matter, anyone as good as me knows the constant mind games and infinite air/ground dodging makes tiers non-existent
think for a sec, any character can dodge ANY attack instantly whether its ground OR air
i have never seen a match up that wasnt possible
i beat pro pits/olimars/spacies/robs with yoshi, explain to me how tiers exist? its only a lack of leetness that makes characters suck
i mean COME ON, you can dodge EVERY attack in the ENTIRE GAME, if reflectors and projectiles didnt exist everyone would be 99% balanced
plain and simple explination: time dodges EVERY chance you get, and you're equal to your opponentno, because Yoshi ain't bottom. You all just thinking him like his Melee way. He HAS changed, he has better buffs than nerfs. Why are most people too lazy to try Yoshi for once, and find his fight style, instead of playing one match and saying "He sucks"? You think loss of DJC is a major nerf, when he plays BETTER WITHOUT IT!
I am surprised that some of you don't even know he has a 3rd jump. That's how lazy you are (the ones who never gave Yoshi a chance).
so Maybe, PsychoIncarnate, you haven't gave him a chance at all by the looks of things
Didja think of that?
dude, chillSeriously. I didn't want to argue but you have made me argue. and plus, I have been waiting to play someone DECENT at smash bros for the past few years, so STFU, and cut me some ****ing slack!
I try to explain something, why Yoshi ain't the worst, but now I am getting seriously pissed off, with idiots like you, ignoring us when we show proof, still continuing, like a bunch of ****ing *******.
Why not call this ****ing "Yoshi hate world forums: The forums for ****ing ignorant *******"
^this is an example of a decent comment. thanks Conda!Japanese people don't play Ness, I reckon.
-dave
« if you are in the category of thinking smashers who
a huge THANK YOU for your intelligent contributions so far
- actually know what tiers are,
- can intelligently discuss them with other intelligent and informed smashers, and
- understand this is NOT an end-all tier discussion, but rather, forum for current metagame from one part of the world, obviously not ours unless you are from japan
- or simply commenting, bumping, asking me to update, subscribing etc. in a non-tard fashion
the following statement does not pertain to you »
this is for all you trolls that don't even read the post before posting:
do yourself a favor and consider carefully if anybody with half a brain gives a **** what you think
this is NOT a tier discussion
please take your grand theories to the Official Sticky
and see if anybody gives a **** what you think over there either
for all your wasted typing, the bRoomers who release the top-player endorsed REAL tier list aren't considering your silly wasted words
hell they better NOT be considering what i think because i suck at スマブラX/brawl, and i suck at melee too.
look
i even provided the textbook definition for what tiers are in the OP
if you don't know who AlphaZealot or HugS are, you need to lurk moar
if you don't know who Ikki is, you need to lurk moar
if you're gonna talk about link being too high in the japan melee top-player endorsed REAL tier list, you need to watch some Aniki vids and shut up until you do
and do yourself a favor and watch the mexicans own face with link tooWak017 another 1337 smasher who knows wat he's talking about - from the vid notes click ^ said:They are good, you aren't. We don't care about your opinion on how good or bad they are, they would beat you. Stop even think you would stand a chance. Ken is considered the best in the world, he would maybe get beaten by some people, but not people like you, unless you're called PC chris, KDJ or M2K, he proved his skills over and over for soon 7 years in many MLG's and national tournaments, winning more than $50 000 US just by playing this game.
-Wak017 and the rest of the smash community.
also, you should pm Ken and tell him that you think japan sucks. but i told you first that he's prolly not going to reply, and if he does he's gonna tell you to STFU and educate urself n00b
and if you don't know what TIRES DON EXITS means, welcome to SWF ^_^
may i direct your attention to the SEARCH FUNCTION?
that's what the boards are for, to get schooled son
THE ORIGINAL ORIGINAL POST:
THE LISTS POSTED BELOW IN THIS THREAD ARE NOT "TIERS"
THEY ARE WEEKLY TOURNAMENT DATA COMPILATIONS FROM JAPAN
THE LISTS POSTED BELOW IN THIS THREAD ARE NOT "TIERS"SWF NOTE:
<PLEASE READ>
<before posting n00b comments kthx>
ok so i've been keeping an eye on japan boards and i think these キャラランク (chara ranks) are the ones Ikki compiles based on raw tourney data over the week. as "weekly tiers,” they obviously change every week because they reflect ONLY ONE WEEK’S RESULTS. for those who can xlate the nihongo boards better than i can, or those directly speaking to japanese players in the know, i’d appreciate any corrections. also, if anybody knows how to BBCode a clean spreadsheet list, that'd be appreciated; that way i can just stick it here.
TAKE THEM OR LEAVE THEM FOR WHAT THEY’RE WORTH
…スマブラX/brawl is still a very new game.
HugS aptly illuminates how the brawl metagame is currently at a floor state
however, it could go without saying, that the japan metagame is significantly more developed than ours, and even for a new game, these rank values are interesting just to watch movement from week to week.
this topic was originally posted at sbhc/smashbroshawaii.com under “TIRES DON EXITS"No one is good at this game.
Stop saying " wow ____ has an amazing pit". He doesn't.
No more "This guy is showing us how the game should be played". He isn't.
Everyone sucks at brawl. You don't get points for beating a good melee player in brawl. You don't get points for winning only 65% of the matches you play. You suck, I suck, we all suck.
The only skill difference between brawlers now is that certain players just suck a little less.
At least give the game more than 2 weeks post release before you start claiming that you or anyone is good at it.
enjoy...or do not enjoy
there is no try
/SWF NOTE
THEY ARE WEEKLY TOURNAMENT DATA COMPILATIONS FROM JAPAN
THE LISTS POSTED BELOW IN THIS THREAD ARE NOT "TIERS"AlphaZealot said:from AlphaZealot's Melee topic: "Wavedashing, L-cancelling, All The Terms! Read First! Update 12/23/2007"
Tiers: Tiers are a general breakdown of how each character stacks up in comparison to the other characters in the game. The tier list assumes a few things. First and most importantly is that it is based on the current metagame (which is based on the mind-games and technical skill of the top players). Current is the vital point here, it is not based on future potential, but on current potential (as a note here Fox is considered to have the most potential in the game). Second, the tier list assumes those playing are of near equal skill, and that they are both near the top of the technical (human) ability for their given character.
What exactly does all this mean? Essentially under most circumstances the higher tiered character will beat the lower tiered character. It is a simply a list of overall advantages, which characters have more advantages in more match ups than other characters. What it doesn't mean is that Sheik will always destroy Marth simply because she is located 2 spots above Marth on the tier list. The impact of the tier list at the top levels of play is minimal once you move into the High Tier and above. Instead, counter characters begin to play a larger role. This also brings up a large portion of the confusion regarding the tier list because a lower ranked character can be a counter to a character ranked much higher. The easiest example here is the Ice Climbers versus Sheik. While Sheik has more advantages in more match ups, the Ice Climbers are one of the few characters that can chain grab her, and as a result they are her only hard counter.
To get a slightly more in depth look at tiers, largely covering the previous tier list, view this: The Ever Evolving Smash Tiers
THEY ARE WEEKLY TOURNAMENT DATA COMPILATIONS FROM JAPAN
latest update: 4/10/08 japan list
^/v (up/down) denotes movement from LAST week's list
my take:
hmmmmmz not entirely sure what to make of this update. it's almost exactly the same as 2 weeks ago, with notable shifts up top in S-class, and biggest movement UP for Lucario and DK compared to 2 weeks ago
again, take it or leave it for what it's worth. /shrugs
also, there is no explanation in the same post as to what the asterisks might signify
as always, anybody able and willing to look closer please be our guest ^_^
4/10/08 japan キャラランク "chara rank" list
http://game13.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/famicom/1207761820/282-382
S. Snake, Falco(^), MK(^), ROB(v)
A. Fox(^)
B. G&W(^^^), Diddy(^), Toon(^^^), Pit(^^^^^), M4rfu(v)
C. ICs(vvv), Wolf(vvv), Olimar(^^^^^), ZeroSamus(^^^), Pikachu(vvv), *Mario(^^^), Lucas(v), *Lucario(^^^^^)
D. Kirby(^^^), Sheik(vvv), DDD(vvv), Luigi(^^^), Wario
E. *Koopa(vvvvv), Samus(vvv), Zelda(vvvvv), *DK(^), Ness(^^^), Peach(vvvvv), Link(^^^)
F. Ike(vvvvv), *Sonic(^), CF(^), Purin(^^^), *PokeTore(vvv), Yoshi(vvv)
G. Ganon(v)
update: 4/3/08 list
***japan is giving mad reps to Ike, Zelda, and Peach apparently atm
with big ups also to Koopa, Samus, DK, Yoshi, and PokeTore
Wolf and ICs broke S-tier, while other charas are losing out in last week's tourneys.
^/v (up/down) denotes movement from last week's list
feel free to discuss any errors or z0mg overlookd items
4/3/08 japan キャラランク "chara rank" list
http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi/game/42562/1204231339/l50
S. Snake, ROB, Falco, MK, Wolf(^), ICs(^^^)
A. Fox(v), Marfu(^), Diddy(v), G&W(vvv), Toon(v), Pikachu(v), Koopa (^^^)
B. Ike(^^^^^), Lucas(^), Zelda(^^^^^), Sheik(v), DDD(^), Peach(^^^^^), Pit(vvvvv), Zamus(vvv), Samus(^^^), Wario
C. Olimar (vvv), Mario (vvv), Luigi(vvv), Kirby(vvv), DK(^^^), Lucario(vvv), Yoshi (^^^), Ness(vvv)
D. PokeT(^^^), Sonic(v), Link(vvv), CF(v), Ganon (^), Purin (v) ;_;
3/29/08 japan キャラランク "chara rank" list:
http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi/game/42562/1204231339/l50
S. Snake, ROB, Falco, MK
A. Fox
B. G&W, Diddy, Toon Link, Pit, Marf
C. ICs, Wolf, Olimar, Zamus, Pikachu, Mario, Lucas
D. Kirby, Sheik, Dedede, Luigi, Lucario, Wario
E. Koopa, Samus, Zelda, Ness, Peach, Link
F. Ike, Sonic, DK, CF, Jiggs, PokeTore, Yoshi
G. Ganon ;_;
3/22/08 japan キャラランク "chara rank" list:
http://game13.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/goveract/1206175501/l50x
S. Snake, Robotto
A. Falco, MK
B. G&W, Diddy, Toon Link, Pit, Fox, M4rf
C. ICs, Wolf, Olimar, ZeroSamus, Pikachu, Mario, Lucas
D. Kirby, Sheik, Dedede, Luigi, Lucario, Wario
E. Koopa, Samus, Zelda, Ness, Peach, Link
F. Ike, Sonic, DK, CF, Jiggs, PokeTore, Yoshi
G. Ganon ;_;
3/19/08 japan キャラランク "chara rank" list:
http://longsense.blog80.fc2.com/blog-date-200803.html
S. MK, Falco, Robo, Fox, Snake
A. Marusu, Pit, Toon
B. Wolf, G&W, Diddy, Mario, AiKura, Zamus
C. Pikachu, Luigi, Kirby, Dedede, Wario, Lucario, Lucas, Olimar
D. Peach, Samus, Sheik, Ness, Jiggs, PokeTore, DK, Koopa
E. Link, Ike, Zelda, Sonic
F. CF
G. Ganon, Yoshi ;_;
edit1: fixed links
edit2: cleaned up notes
edit3: cleaned up post
edit4: cleaned up post, changed topic title from [Tires Don Exits: A Look at Japan's *WEEKLY* キャラランク "Chara Ranks"] to [A Look at Japan's *WEEKLY* キャラランク "Chara Ranks" (use Official Sticky for Tier Debate)]
edit5: update 4/10/08 list
edit6: rant bumproll ^_^
edit7: update 14.April, 17.April, 19.April
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